United Ireland Poll

Dudess

Well even to just get passionate would be enough.

fastman

Hell yes !

kreuzberger

snyper wrote: »

Im rather disappointed by the so far backward thinking of the "yes" side.

The majority of the citizens are Loyal to the crown.

I see . You regard a call for national sovereignty and democracy to be respected by Britian as backward , yet regard fealty from a national minority towards some superstitious medieval concept like a monarchy as progressive and believe that superstitutious loyalty to this foreign medieval institution should supercede any basis for Irish national democracy .
Burned any witches lately ? Should leeches be introduced on the medical card ?

Rossibaby

i feel very saddened that people on this board seem to regard the people in the 6 counties as outsiders.they are your fellow irishmen and women.you can see this during the all-ireland GAA and in rugby,when its sport they arent this scary race seperate of us.

plus snyper,how dare you bring religion into this!!!the founder of republicanism was a protestant,that crushes your point right there.it was never a war about religion,you seem to know little,but keep kidding yourself

AckwelFoley

Dudess wrote: »

Well even to just get passionate would be enough.

Passionate? Im fcuking boiling thinking about this.

I didnt ask the question in an ideallic setting, it was in a realistic setting.. and wishing for a 32 county ireland is not workable without more blood being spilled.

Rossibaby

the economy wont collapse if ireland is united ffs...people survived when it was united and they will after it is.it is a myth.sure our economy will start declining in the not so distant future.

snyper who initiated the blood shed?

AckwelFoley

Rossibaby wrote: »

i feel very saddened that people on this board seem to regard the people in the 6 counties as outsiders.they are your fellow irishmen and women.you can see this during the all-ireland GAA and in rugby,when its sport they arent this scary race seperate of us.

Ask the protestant majority how they feel about the GAA.

as for wolfe tone being protestant.. good for him.

But the Unionist people up there are Protestant and that is a major part of their identity.. so it does matter.

O'Coonassa

Rossibaby wrote: »

who initiated the blood shed?

The Pope when he ordered Henry II in to civilise us AFAIK

Sherifu

Dudess wrote: »

I too feel very saddened by people's complacency about the North.

Dudess wrote: »

Well even to just get passionate would be enough.

Things will be bad enough without the North dragging us down. Let Britain support them. Bring back that biggot website runner to get his views.

kildare paddy

Rossibaby wrote: »

why do people look differently on ''northerners''.they seem to almost fear them.many of us who have relations in the 6 counties know there is no difference,we are irish.just listen to the media,be the sheep ye are and don't appose anything.just live out your lives and never challenge authority,they are probably wrong but sure,its not worth the hassle theres something good on tv

they wouldnt know that all these west brits are looking at RTE ,BBC so they wouldnt have a clue what is going on up in the north of ireland. i voted yeah by the way and am sickened at some comments! the north is part of our country and heritage and irish people up north should be treated as our own

Rossibaby

i despise the GAA,whats your point. yes the majority of unionists are protestant,i'm not asking to give it up like,its an integral part of peoples culture and should be respected.but religion has nothing to do with the struggle!there are catholic unionists and protestant republicans.

kreuzberger

beautiation wrote: »

The popluation this majority comes from, do you include people in the republic in that? Cos I really see no reason why we would deserve a say in it at all anymore than if we suddenly decided we fancied adding Leichenstein to the Irish empire, we could outvote their population I'm sure but would that make it fair?

Lichtenstein isnt in Ireland , the occupied 6 counties are. And almost half of its residents are part of the "we" your on about . Your analogy is completely ridiculous . By your logic any country with immigrants on our territory could annexe a part of it on the basis citizens who claim geneological loyalty to them make up the majority in any given area , no matter how small or unviable a statelet would be . The occupied area is based on a simple and blatant sectarian gerrymander in order to violate Irish democracy and sovereignty . That is deeply unfair by any definition and not based upon any democratic principle .

What happens with the north is an issue for people who live there, and things up there are great at the moment (relatively), and can continue to be.

this is a samll island , and introducing the principle that the Irish people as a whole and the Irish nation as a whole have no right to national sovereignty and national self determination affects everyone on the island . As does conflict .

Anyone who wants to mess with that is an idiot who doesn't really care about peace at all,

the fact there is a current lull in the conflict does not mean there will be an end to conflict . The root cause of the confliict is the same as it always has been . That root cause has not been addressed and anyone who nelieves pretending that it has been or that it will just go away is deeply ignorant , or an idiot to use your terminology

and needs to get over their juvenile prejudices.

It could be argued that anyone making a post firstly to point out they dont care about the issue , and then making another even lengthier one in which they claim that part of Ireland isnt ireland , its people not Irish , comparing them to the residents of Lichtenstein etc has some juvenile prejudices of their own to deal with .

Ross_Mahon

Ive nothing against catholics/protestants, i say just unite. They should give up their childish beliefs and move on.

Jesus Wept

Let's re-take the 6 counties of the North, but let's give up 6 counties we are currently saddled with....

Namely - Cork, Limerick, Meath, Westmeath, Offaly and Cavan - the weakest links.

:pac:

I think you will agree that we would be far better off.
These counties will be turned into lakes, for all of us to enjoy.

Edit: Picture added

Peoples living in Meath, Westmeath and Offaly will be relocated to other counties, probably Sligo and Leitrim.

Bob the Builder

It would be a nice thing to have, it would close a 900 year old english-controlled book that ireland has suffered, but thinking for real, even little things like having to change currency to the euro, would be a big upset for NI to go with, as it would cut off the links with britain straight away, which is what their economy currently depends on.

beautiation

Rossibaby wrote: »

oo please tell us more,you seem quite the intellect:D

and what should people believe in?you are spitting on every irish person who gave their life for irish unity and a socialist republic. somehow i doubt you have the bravery and intelligence and ''ball's'' of many volunteers over the year.go ahead and live out your meaningless existence and let injustice spread across the world.sure why would iraqi's or palestinians care,they should all get a life...i salute you:cool:

he who would die for nothing is not fit to live - martin luther king jr

oo wait you'd probably die for a nice new '08 car,i forgot

sure we should all just go out an get drunk and work a job we hate for stuff we dont need,thats really living i tell ya

How does passiveness on the northern Irish situation generalise to a passiveness for all moral causes exactly? There are plenty of things I fight for and would die for, real important issues like defeating world hunger and oppression that are rampant and which doubtless the likes of you happily ignore because you think you're a great crusader for getting all worked up over which identikit government the six counties are under. You can dress up your bigotry in whatever grand words of fighting for freedom you wish, but these days it is nothing of the sort and you know this. The people up north are free and comfortable to live life as they please, there's simply no practical reason for undergoing the strife that would result from moving them to the republic. Life would be pretty much exactly the same, the whole thing would all be for naught but an indulgence of the stupid anti-british sentiment some people indulge in. You ask what people should believe in, and I say people should believe in peace and harmony at all reasonable costs, and in forgiveness and progression and integration and experiencing all the great things that humans can share with each other, seeing past the stupid, superficial differences that continue to blind so many. Whereas you believe in stirring up old wounds and continuous division.
I could argue this just as vehemently the opposite way condemning people who would make a big issue of this from the other side.

I don't spit on every Irishman who fought for the republic, but I do spit on a lot of them through the years, because I don't think most of them asked themselves the necessary questions before crossing the line into violence and murder. Without being of their time, I can't judge the 1916 fighters or war of independence fighters fairly (though some of the atrocities commited during these periods which were indulged in by both sides confirms there was a lot of scum around back then as well). But having talked to my family who grew up during the troubles in a republican area, and looked into the reasons for the fighting and considered them unworthy of instigating such bloodshed I can certainly judge both sides from that period as the absolute lowest of the low.

And anyone can murder and die for fanatic gob****es, its been proven over and over again through history, it is not a sign of intelligence or anything virtuous. The real strength of character is in not becoming a murdering scumbag even when you live in a culture that promotes it. Many, many people who died for Ireland were nothing more than sheep. They were the meaningless ones. My existence means a lot to me precisely because I questioned the assumptions of people around me, found them ridiculous, and defined life for myself.

kildare paddy

snyper wrote: »

Ask the protestant majority how they feel about the GAA.

as for wolfe tone being protestant.. good for him.

But the Unionist people up there are Protestant and that is a major part of their identity.. so it does matter.

religion has nothing got to do with the war in ireland it suited the british to call it a religious war!

beautiation

kreuzberger wrote: »

beautiation wrote: »

Lichtenstein isnt in Ireland , the occupied 6 counties are. And almost half of its residents are part of the "we" your on about . Your analogy is completely ridiculous . By your logic any country with immigrants on our territory could annexe a part of it on the basis citizens who claim geneological loyalty to them make up the majority in any given area , no matter how small or unviable a statelet would be . The occupied area is based on a simple and blatant sectarian gerrymander in order to violate Irish democracy and sovereignty . That is deeply unfair by any definition and not based upon any democratic principle .



this is a samll island , and introducing the principle that the Irish people as a whole and the Irish nation as a whole have no right to national sovereignty and national self determination affects everyone on the island . As does conflict .



the fact there is a current lull in the conflict does not mean there will be an end to conflict . The root cause of the confliict is the same as it always has been . That root cause has not been addressed and anyone who nelieves pretending that it has been or that it will just go away is deeply ignorant , or an idiot to use your terminology



It could be argued that anyone making a post firstly to point out they dont care about the issue , and then making another even lengthier one in which they claim that part of Ireland isnt ireland , its people not Irish , comparing them to the residents of Lichtenstein etc has some juvenile prejudices of their own to deal with .

Yes, I'm juvenilely prejudiced against people with juvenile prejudices. It's the only way to relate.

kreuzberger

snyper wrote: »

Passionate? Im fcuking boiling thinking about this.

I didnt ask the question in an ideallic setting, it was in a realistic setting.. and wishing for a 32 county ireland is not workable without more blood being spilled.

whos going to spill blood in your opinion ?

RobertFoster

I think an independent state would be better.

But in all seriousness lads, we've given this whole Dublin based thing a go for 86 years now, I think we should head back to London tbh. :pac:

Dudess

To be honest, my heart says yes, but my head says no.

dlofnep

beautiation wrote: »

real important issues like defeating world hunger and oppression that are rampant and which doubtless the likes of you happily ignore

I'd like to address this point before you try to stereotype Republicans to fit whatever view you would have them to be.

As a person, I donate to many charities that deal with poverty and hunger. I try to educate myself on alot of issues across the world. The majority of Republicans I have met through the years are infact very active about these very same issues, namely due to being passionate and vocal about areas that they disagree with.

So please, stop trying to stereotype us with things like "the likes of you". You've never met me, or Rossi and don't know us both from Adam.

We just so happen to care about the current occupation of the North. And things are not as cosy up there as you would want us to believe. Like I have already pointed out, areas of interests to the nationalists have already been vetoed out, such as the Irish language act. Republicans and Nationalists in general are often harassed by the PSNI, even today. Just a few days ago a group was advised that erecting a tricolour was illegal, and when they asked the PSNI where in the law it was stated, they could not answer them. Where is their culture and rights being respected? This is one of many things that you do not see or the almighty RTE does not portray of the North. I see and hear these things all the time while active in Republicanism. You should try keep your eyes opened and stop swallowing the propaganda you may be sometimes fed.

kildare paddy

i see people are happy having the british army using ireland as a training ground:mad:

Rossibaby

beautiation wrote: »

How does passiveness on the northern Irish situation generalise to a passiveness for all moral causes exactly? There are plenty of things I fight for and would die for, real important issues like defeating world hunger and oppression that are rampant and which doubtless the likes of you happily ignore because you think you're a great crusader for getting all worked up over which identikit government the six counties are under. You can dress up your bigotry in whatever grand words of fighting for freedom you wish, but these days it is nothing of the sort and you know this. The people up north are free and comfortable to live life as they please, there's simply no practical reason for undergoing the strife that would result from moving them to the republic. Life would be pretty much exactly the same, the whole thing would all be for naught but an indulgence of the stupid anti-british sentiment some people indulge in. You ask what people should believe in, and I say people should believe in peace and harmony at all reasonable costs, and in forgiveness and progression and integration and experiencing all the great things that humans can share with each other, seeing past the stupid, superficial differences that continue to blind so many. Whereas you believe in stirring up old wounds and continuous division.
I could argue this just as vehemently the opposite way condemning people who would make a big issue of this from the other side.

I don't spit on every Irishman who fought for the republic, but I do spit on a lot of them through the years, because I don't think most of them asked themselves the necessary questions before crossing the line into violence and murder. Without being of their time, I can't judge the 1916 fighters or war of independence fighters fairly (though some of the atrocities commited during these periods which were indulged in by both sides confirms there was a lot of scum around back then as well). But having talked to my family who grew up during the troubles in a republican area, and looked into the reasons for the fighting and considered them unworthy of instigating such bloodshed I can certainly judge both sides from that period as the absolute lowest of the low.

And anyone can murder and die for fanatic gob****es, its been proven over and over again through history, it is not a sign of intelligence or anything virtuous. The real strength of character is in not becoming a murdering scumbag even when you live in a culture that promotes it. Many, many people who died for Ireland were nothing more than sheep. They were the meaningless ones. My existence means a lot to me precisely because I questioned the assumptions of people around me, found them ridiculous, and defined life for myself.

yes go stop world hunger then,how very righteous of you.what do you do for this?you live in a country that exploits and oppresses 3rd world countries?i am a republican socialist not just a nationalist.ireland rapes many third world countries and is better off because of it.yet what do you do to oppose this?have you not died for it yet as you suggested you would...im an active member of a socialist group trying to stop this,what are you? a self-righteous hypocrite it seems.when are you planning to die for world hunger?clown

chopperbyrne

"Occupation of the north"

Will you get over yourself!

The people in the north have a stronger economy and the NHS.

If it came to a vote in the six counties I would hazard a guess that the majority vote would be to stay as part of the UK.

beautiation

dlofnep wrote: »

I'd like to address this point before you try to stereotype Republicans to fit whatever view you would have them to be.

As a person, I donate to many charities that deal with poverty and hunger. I try to educate myself on alot of issues across the world. The majority of Republicans I have met through the years are infact very active about these very same issues, namely due to being passionate and vocal about areas that they disagree with.

So please, stop trying to stereotype us with things like "the likes of you". You've never met me, or Rossi and don't know us both from Adam.

We just so happen to care about the current occupation of the North. And things are not as cosy up there as you would want us to believe. Like I have already pointed out, areas of interests to the nationalists have already been vetoed out, such as the Irish language act. Republicans and Nationalists in general are often harassed by the PSNI, even today. Just a few days ago a group was advised that erecting a tricolour was illegal, and when they asked the PSNI where in the law it was stated, they could not answer them. This is one of many things that you do not see or the almighty RTE does not portray of the North. I see and hear these things all the time while active in Republicanism. You should try keep your eyes opened and stop swallowing the propaganda you may be sometimes fed.

I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Rossi who very clearly implied that the only possible reason I couldn't give a toss about who the north belonged to as long as there was peace was beacuse I was lazy and selfish. He made assumptions about me which told me all I needed about him to put him in with "the likes of you", you were not included in that category (I also just love that phrase lol).

Things may not be perfect up north, but they're damn near enough. and nothing can justify stirring up trouble again. The power sharing ensures both sides have outlets for any grievances.

kreuzberger

beautiation wrote: »

How does passiveness on the northern Irish situation generalise to a passiveness for all moral causes exactly? There are plenty of things I fight for and would die for, real important issues like defeating world hunger and oppression that are rampant and which doubtless the likes of you happily ignore because you think you're a great crusader for getting all worked up over which identikit government the six counties are under. You can dress up your bigotry in whatever grand words of fighting for freedom you wish, but these days it is nothing of the sort and you know this. The people up north are free and comfortable to live life as they please, there's simply no practical reason for undergoing the strife that would result from moving them to the republic. Life would be pretty much exactly the same, the whole thing would all be for naught but an indulgence of the stupid anti-british sentiment some people indulge in. You ask what people should believe in, and I say people should believe in peace and harmony at all reasonable costs, and in forgiveness and progression and integration and experiencing all the great things that humans can share with each other, seeing past the stupid, superficial differences that continue to blind so many. Whereas you believe in stirring up old wounds and continuous division.
I could argue this just as vehemently the opposite way condemning people who would make a big issue of this from the other side.

I don't spit on every Irishman who fought for the republic, but I do spit on a lot of them through the years, because I don't think most of them asked themselves the necessary questions before crossing the line into violence and murder. Without being of their time, I can't judge the 1916 fighters or war of independence fighters fairly (though some of the atrocities commited during these periods which were indulged in by both sides confirms there was a lot of scum around back then as well). But having talked to my family who grew up during the troubles in a republican area, and looked into the reasons for the fighting and considered them unworthy of instigating such bloodshed I can certainly judge both sides from that period as the absolute lowest of the low.

And anyone can murder and die for fanatic gob****es, its been proven over and over again through history, it is not a sign of intelligence or anything virtuous. The real strength of character is in not becoming a murdering scumbag even when you live in a culture that promotes it. Many, many people who died for Ireland were nothing more than sheep. They were the meaningless ones. My existence means a lot to me precisely because I questioned the assumptions of people around me, found them ridiculous, and defined life for myself.

so you do care now ? and youd swear the Irish invaded england the way your carrying on , like the people occupied by Britian were the aggressors. It appears to me your of the belief that as long as foreign occupiers are prepared to feed you and treat you well one should not get upset with people occupying ones country against your will . National self determination is not important in your opinion. And Im wholly unaware of any aspect of our national culture which regards resisting occupation as murder , and then promotes a criminal act . So it appears that far from disinterest you are actually quite interested and have adopted the British agenda that resisting British rule in Ireland was murder , an act of criminality . Thankfully the vast majority of people in this country and indeed the world which suffered from British colonialism would regard your view as deeply biased nonsense .
The only sheep I know of who died for Ireland were the fools led off by then nose to the Somme and Gallipoli in British uniforms . Anyone else was deeply unpopular , demonised by the church and media , denounced from the pulpit ,excommunicated etc . They became popular retrospectively but at the time most people were generally too cowed to help them .

But anyway , thankyou for clearing up the misunderstanding from your first post in which you described yourself as a disinterested party . Obviously that wasnt the case .

kreuzberger

beautiation wrote: »

I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Rossi who very clearly implied that the only possible reason I couldn't give a toss about who the north belonged to as long as there was peace was beacuse I was lazy and selfish. He made assumptions about me which told me all I needed about him to put him in with "the likes of you", you were not included in that category (I also just love that phrase lol).

Things may not be perfect up north, but they're damn near enough. and nothing can justify stirring up trouble again. The power sharing ensures both sides have outlets for any grievances.

the joint administring of British rule ensures only that sectariainsim becomes institutionalised , normalised and managed . And therefore permanent . If Britian wasnt in the north thered be no trouble . What you are advocating here is that people should submit to the agenda Britian has decided will be this countrys future and not question it . Otherwise the true nature of British rule in Ireland and what it entails might come to the surface again . Thats not a very progressive or democratic view in my opinion . It promotes a deeply ingrained culture of servility and low expectations .

beautiation

Rossibaby wrote: »

yes go stop world hunger then,how very righteous of you.what do you do for this?you live in a country that exploits and oppresses 3rd world countries?i am a republican socialist not just a nationalist.ireland rapes many third world countries and is better off because of it.yet what do you do to oppose this?have you not died for it yet as you suggested you would...im an active member of a socialist group trying to stop this,what are you? a self-righteous hypocrite it seems.when are you planning to die for world hunger?clown

I wasn't suggesting I'm great for giving a toss about world starvation, I was just refuting your suggestion that apathy towards the north can only stem from selfishness and ingratitude.

And what good would me killing myself about it do? Anymore than you killing yourself for Northern Ireland joining the republic. That's just silly logic

kreuzberger

beautiation wrote: »

Yes, I'm juvenilely prejudiced .

id agree with that bit anyway