United Ireland Poll

Rossibaby

rb_ie wrote: »

Why should we do that? They're part of the UK, like it or not and they are a burden to the UK. Let it remain that way and let the UK look after it. Why should we take on such a burden?

because not everyone values money above all else? im sure you're in total support of the way countries like the USA and ourselves rape third world countries and leaves them in poverty while selling their products at a highly increased price to overpay general labour forces and make sure more people can afford 40" lcd's. also disregard the 300,000 people who live as under class citizens in ireland,sure as long as your grand yourself who cares

kreuzberger

snyper wrote: »

If it were up to a vote, would you wish to see a 32 county, taking in to account the consequences of the result within the Unionist community if it were granted

Mine is a no vote. I think with the way things are going now in europe we all will be one european nation..

you raise some interesting issues , primarily the fact that Britian has done everything in its power to esnure it isnt put to a vote ,as well as ignoring and physically suppressing the election results the last time we voted as a single nation. You also seem to be hinting that unionism will declare war unilaterally on the rest of the island . a frequent bluster from a bully but not a real possibility at all . Certainly not one any democrat should ever give in to .
Secondly you focus upon what the effect of an end to this British denial of democracy on a national basis will be on the pro British community within the occupied territory , ignoring the fact there is a substantial pro nation community in the 6 counties and an even larger one in the 26 counties . No consideration of what their reaction will be to a continued denial of national democracy as it slowly dawns upon them theyve been had and no united Ireland is likely to emege from the current process . What if they demand the vote you ask us to imagine ? What will the repercussions of that be ? Because that is the future . What will the be the consequences of Britian countinuing to deny and suppress national democracy in Ireland ?
The effects of not being insulated from democracy any more on the unionist community may be hard to gauge , but I would expect them to behave like reasonable people and accept democracy . Or do they have some sort of immunity certificate that permits murder in the event of national democracy ? Regardless it will be the British intelligence services and military as always which dictates what the physical reaction of unionism will be to any given issue .

Krieg

Ok
I accept many points made by the "Yes" campaign

But the north is too far gone at this stage. Say the OP's vote went ahead and it came to a "Yes". The troubles would almost definitly errupt again, wasting all the peace talks and progression that has been achieved over the last- god knows how many years. I don't believe that loss of life can justify the idea of a united Ireland, I know many would disagree

dlofnep

Some interesting numbers for people.

26%-32% - The amount of Brits who supported the North remaining in the UK.
41%-45% - The amount of Brits who supported Irish Unity.
Sources: British Social Attitudes Survey (2004), ICM (2001).

77% - Those in the South of Ireland who supported Unity.
Source: Sunday Business Post (2006).

It's not a mystery that the general public in Britain do not want the North to be apart of the UK. It's not a mystery that the general public in the South want Irish Unity, and in general the majority of people in Ireland want Irish Unity.

Only 10% of the population in the North fully object to Irish Unity. (Independant Ark poll)

So the only real problem is the impact it may or may not have economically. Once again proving that some people revolve their life around one thing and one thing only, money. The same way the US revolves it's war on Iraq around money. And what did that acheive? 100,000's of needless deaths. Not to try and chain all these together, but I just wanted to outline that money is not the be all and end all of things and that other things are important in life.

MooseJam

I vote yes, Brits out

kreuzberger

rb_ie wrote: »

Why should we do that? They're part of the UK, like it or not and they are a burden to the UK. Let it remain that way and let the UK look after it. Why should we take on such a burden?

Beacuse its part of your national territory , all of which was once part of the uk and civilised dignified people generally seek to defend their national territory as opposed to pretending it isnt there or giving it away . Its taken as a measure of their persoanl and national dignity . Britian has had to pump so much money into it to prop up an artificial state wracked by internal insurgency and the continuin threat of which , that it divided from the rest of the island by force . That division made the place a basket case , not its existence on the first place . A logical person would not confuse cause with effect .

beautiation

I couldn't care less tbh. It's absolutely unbelievable how much some people care about this nonsense. Get a life.

kreuzberger

Krieg wrote: »

Ok
I accept many points made by the "Yes" campaign

But the north is too far gone at this stage. Say the OP's vote went ahead and it came to a "Yes". The troubles would almost definitly errupt again, wasting all the peace talks and progression that has been achieved over the last- god knows how many years. I don't believe that loss of life can justify the idea of a united Ireland, I know many would disagree

why would trouble erupt ? are you suggesting that yet again Britian would refuse to recognise the vote of the Irish people ?

All the peacetalks and progression you speak of have been acheived by convincing the nationalist population both sides of the border that a united Ireland can be achieved under the current structures. Surely when they realise that is nit the case we have a recipe for future conflict ? A certainty of it .
Isnt it much better to solve it then through democracy rather than continue with a denial of it ? Surely thats a recipe for trouble .

kreuzberger

beautiation wrote: »

I couldn't care less tbh. It's absolutely unbelievable how much some people care about this nonsense. Get a life.

yet you felt compelled to post

AckwelFoley

Im rather disappointed by the so far backward thinking of the "yes" side.

The majority of the citizens are Loyal to the crown. Its part of the United Kingdom, by voting Yes to a united Ireland you are simply looking for more problems for the noth.

I dont think we can look into the past to try and see a future

*sigh*

dlofnep

snyper wrote: »

Im rather disappointed by the so far backward thinking of the "yes" side.

The majority of the citizens are Loyal to the crown. Its part of the United Kingdom, by voting Yes to a united Ireland you are simply looking for more problems for the noth.

I dont think we can look into the past to try and see a future

*sigh*

Loyal to a crown that doesn't want them in the first place. The majority of British people do not WANT the North. The majority of people on the Island of Ireland want Irish Unity. Is it not backwards to think it's ok for a minority to dictate what happens to a majority?

You want shot of the north, I get it. But don't dare try tell people what is backwards and what isn't.

Sherifu

snyper wrote: »

Im rather disappointed by the so far backward thinking of the "yes" side.

The majority of the citizens are Loyal to the crown. Its part of the United Kingdom, by voting Yes to a united Ireland you are simply looking for more problems for the noth.

I dont think we can look into the past to try and see a future

*sigh*

The soul of a poet.


/no

chopperbyrne

Currently, no.

We can't look after the 26 counties we have now, it'd be much worse if we had to consider another six too.

When the economy is fine, the health service is fine, employment is fine and sectarianism has been eliminated, then yes, I'd be all for a united Ireland.

Until then, let's work towards those goals.

AckwelFoley

dlofnep wrote: »

Loyal to a crown that doesn't want them in the first place. The majority of British people do not WANT the North. The majority of people on the Island of Ireland want Irish Unity. Is it not backwards to think it's ok for a minority to dictate what happens to a majority?

You want shot of the north, I get it. But don't dare try tell people what is backwards and what isn't.

Its backward thinking imo.What do you want? to ethnic clense the protestant north?

Agent Smith

cant we just let it drift away?

Davidius

Ah sure they can just give the majority nationalist counties back.

Oh right, not economically sustainable.

OK, how about this. We nuke them all and when the radiation disappears who ever grabs it first gets it!

beautiation

Davidius wrote: »

Ah sure they can just give the majority nationalist counties back.

Oh right, not economically sustainable.

OK, how about this. We nuke them all and when the radiation disappears who ever grabs it first gets it!

Excellent thinking! And if we're lucky the fallout might mutate some of the bigots that are still around up there into useful life forms.

dlofnep

snyper wrote: »

Its backward thinking imo.What do you want? to ethnic clense the protestant north?

I expected such a response from you.

No. And religion is irrelevant, since you're throwing out clichés. Those who object it would be the "loyalists/unionists" (of which by the way, only 10% of the entire population of the North actually fully object to Irish Unity).

I would look for a plan of integration, into a multi-cultural Ireland. Perhaps even a compromise with Britain, for those who wish to declare themselves as British would still be entitled to a British passport. Loyalists could be integrated into a more rounded Irish Government, which would cater to the needs of the loyalist population.

I'm certainly not going to turn my back on the majority of people who want Irish Unity, in favour of those who do not.

Rossibaby

beautiation wrote: »

I couldn't care less tbh. It's absolutely unbelievable how much some people care about this nonsense. Get a life.

oo please tell us more,you seem quite the intellect:D

and what should people believe in?you are spitting on every irish person who gave their life for irish unity and a socialist republic. somehow i doubt you have the bravery and intelligence and ''ball's'' of many volunteers over the year.go ahead and live out your meaningless existence and let injustice spread across the world.sure why would iraqi's or palestinians care,they should all get a life...i salute you:cool:

he who would die for nothing is not fit to live - martin luther king jr

oo wait you'd probably die for a nice new '08 car,i forgot

sure we should all just go out an get drunk and work a job we hate for stuff we dont need,thats really living i tell ya

dlofnep

Rossi, don't worry about it. Some people are passive in life and often don't care for change, no matter what it is. I know it's upsetting to read comments like that, but don't leave them get the better of you. I applaud all the men and women who have died for a free Ireland, and I feel sad to see that someone people are not willing to even give moral support for it. But that is the way it is and we are in a free-thinking society. They will have their beliefs and we will have ours.

beautiation

dlofnep wrote: »

I expected such a response from you.

No. And religion is irrelevant, since you're throwing out clichés. Those who object it would be the "loyalists/unionists" (of which by the way, only 10% of the entire population of the North actually fully object to Irish Unity).

I would look for a plan of integration, into a multi-cultural Ireland. Perhaps even a compromise with Britain, for those who wish to declare themselves as British would still be entitled to a British passport. Loyalists could be integrated into a more rounded Irish Government, which would cater to the needs of the loyalists population.

I'm certainly not going to turn my back on the majority of people who want Irish Unity, in favour of those who do not.

The popluation this majority comes from, do you include people in the republic in that? Cos I really see no reason why we would deserve a say in it at all anymore than if we suddenly decided we fancied adding Leichenstein to the Irish empire, we could outvote their population I'm sure but would that make it fair? What happens with the north is an issue for people who live there, and things up there are great at the moment (relatively), and can continue to be. Anyone who wants to mess with that is an idiot who doesn't really care about peace at all, and needs to get over their juvenile prejudices.

Rossibaby

snyper wrote: »

Im rather disappointed by the so far backward thinking of the "yes" side.

The majority of the citizens are Loyal to the crown. Its part of the United Kingdom, by voting Yes to a united Ireland you are simply looking for more problems for the noth.

I dont think we can look into the past to try and see a future

*sigh*

backward thinking? how short is your memory,it's not easy to forget for people who have had relations,neighbours and friends die for the struggle.irish people had to endure torture,internment and were treated like animals. the british presence was forced upon us, and i for one will always appose imperialism.

how do we know where we are going if we don't know where we have been?

bloody sunday in 1972? not exactly centuries ago isit,and the families of 14 people should just forget how their family members were murdered in cold blood by a force that shouldn't be there...same goes to the poster i addressed a second ag,should the families of these people get a life?

Redpunto

Nope, cut it off and stick it on the top of Scotland

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Do the people in the north get a vote or is this just a 26 county thing?

And if ever a poll was scraming out for an atari jag option, THIS is it

Rossibaby

why do people look differently on ''northerners''.they seem to almost fear them.many of us who have relations in the 6 counties know there is no difference,we are irish.just listen to the media,be the sheep ye are and don't appose anything.just live out your lives and never challenge authority,they are probably wrong but sure,its not worth the hassle theres something good on tv

dlofnep

beautiation wrote: »

The popluation this majority comes from, do you include people in the republic in that? Cos I really see no reason why we would deserve a say in it at all anymore than if we suddenly decided we fancied adding Leichenstein to the Irish empire, we could outvote their population I'm sure but would that make it fair? What happens with the north is an issue for people who live there, and things up there are great at the moment (relatively), and can continue to be. Anyone who wants to mess with that is an idiot who doesn't really care about peace at all, and needs to get over their juvenile prejudices.

Yes of course I include the South. Why wouldn't I? A foreign British empire can dictate what happens there, muting the voice of the nationalist population of the North - and we can't have a say in it?

We have every right to have a say what happens here. Who speaks for the nationalist population when the loyalist's veto anything relevant to them? This is where a more balanced united Ireland would come into play.

Maybe it's fine and well for a foreign empire to setup camp anywhere in the world and dictate what happens to it to you, but it's not to me. That's where we differ. It's nothing to do with juvenile prejudices. I'm a 25 year old, who's experience enough in life to make decisions based on my own opinion and not some propagandist view on things.

I believe that Irish Unity is right and just. I believe that allowing Britain to control what happens in a foreign state, when it's very own people don't want it in the first place is unjust. I believe in protecting the rights of our very own people who would be saddened to see you turn your back on them. But it's much easier to be passive, isn't it? Afterall, if it doesn't effect you when you wake up in the morning - then why bother, right?

You stay passive, and I'll be active. We we will continue to live out our existence this way. I'll accept your way of life. You accept mine.

Rossibaby

beautiation wrote: »

The popluation this majority comes from, do you include people in the republic in that? Cos I really see no reason why we would deserve a say in it at all anymore than if we suddenly decided we fancied adding Leichenstein to the Irish empire, we could outvote their population I'm sure but would that make it fair? What happens with the north is an issue for people who live there, and things up there are great at the moment (relatively), and can continue to be. Anyone who wants to mess with that is an idiot who doesn't really care about peace at all, and needs to get over their juvenile prejudices.

so it's ok for britain to pick and choose what countries they want and we should let them have it...if they wanted the south you'd probably let them have it too? if you want to be english so much just move there:D

and a second ago you didnt care,now you have an opinion....now under your own opinion you should get a life:o

Dudess

I too feel very saddened by people's complacency about the North.

dlofnep

Dudess, I'm going to message you privately about your posts.

AckwelFoley

Dudess wrote: »

I too feel very saddened by people's complacency about the North.

Complacency?

What do you want?? Us to storm the border???