United Ireland Poll

menoscemo

rb_ie wrote: »

Not half as sad as some major countries in the EU voting No to Lisbon and Ireland voting yes.

Firstly we are the only country voting on Lisbon, so no other country, major or not, will be voting no. Secondly I will be voting No to lisbon for exactly the reason outined in the first point.
Thirdly what has this go to do with a United ireland, and why do you assume I would be voting Yes to Lisbon?

Terry

O'Coonassa wrote: »

IMO you are making a really huge assumption here and I don't see what you have to base such a massive leap of faith upon. In all honesty it looks like nothing other than pro-British prejudice.

Prior to the Pope ordering the Anglo-Norman invasion this land was a light of knowledge shining in the darkness of dark age Europe. The Celtic Christian Church that the Pope was so keen to shut down earned us the title of the 'land of saints and scholars'. In many respects the Brehon Law that was influenced by our advanced thinking was far in advance of what our European brothers and sisters had to suffer under.

The country was only united for the first time under Boru in the earlyc.11th and of course National development is entirely dependant on such unity. I truly believe we were going places as a Nation and there is plenty of evidence to point to this. To my mind there is no telling what a bastion of enlightenment we may have developed into.

Of course the Bull Laudabiliter put a stop to our National development so there is simply no way of telling. However I am hard set to see how you can reach the opposite conclusion that you have reached. Indeed I think from the evidence there is every reason to assert that the Norman and Tudor invasions did a great deal to retard our development. Of course their propoganda always asserted the opposite of this but I must confess that I'm surprised to see an Irishman arguing in its favour. Perhaps you have some concrete historical facts that I'm unaware of that you'd like to draw my attention to?

This is the best post in this entire shambles of a thread.

I had quoted others, but had to reboot and subsequently lost them.

A couple of people mentioned that Ireland would not be what it is today were it not for the British.
That's pretty much a no-brainer.
Of course it wouldn't be the same.
However, these comments seemed to imply that Ireland would be worse off.
This is something we will never know because a lot of things can happen over hte course of 900 years. We could have been invaded by the Spanish, Dutch, French, Portuguese, Danes (again) or any other number of European countries.
We could also have established trade links with these countries and prospered through this.
We may even have become a greater sea faring nation than Britain and may well have been the first Europeans to settle the new world (yes, I am aware of St. Brendan and the Vikings).

As for the 86 year old question, I voted yes.
We survived as a nation through worse things than an economic slump. I'm fairly certain we could come out the other side of a united Ireland even stronger than we are now.
We just might have to give up driving fuel guzzling cars for a while though.

GhettoSoldier

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Voted no, a united ireland is a terrible idea.

Actually, we should look into lumbering the english with more useless parts of ireland, i wonder if they'd be interested in taking cork off our hands for a few decades.

Says the man from Cardiff, Wales.

O'Coonassa

mise_me_fein wrote: »

Nice quoting....you should work for the News of the World, I said that I was born here and lived here all my life.

If you recollect before you started gazing at your own navel we were talking about that section of Irishmen who wish to also be called by the name British. You're saying they have no right to consider themselves as such or to go by that name. In total contradiction to this you're now implying that somebody Irish of Chinese origin can if they wish to call themselves Chinese. There's a contradiction there that goes by the name of bigotry IMO

thelordofcheese

GhettoSoldier wrote: »

Says the man from Cardiff, Wales.

Says the Irish man currently living in Cardiff.
Location is current my dear, do try and keep up.

Dudess

"From" Cardiff, Wales? How do you know he's from there?

Rb

GhettoSoldier wrote: »

Sinn Fein and other republicans are left wing anti racist parties

So they say, yet they'll happily support a terrorist organisation hell bent on attacking British/Protestants up North.

ART6

Dudess wrote: »

Because it's the island of Ireland and the six counties were taken by force. I don't care how long ago it happened. It was still unjust.

OK, so any land mass should only be controlled by one nation and one people. Historically many land masses have been taken by conquest over the last thousands of years right up to living memory. So now, which nation and people should claim Europe, Asia, Russia, North America?

GhettoSoldier

Dudess wrote: »

"From" Cardiff, Wales? How do you know he's from there?

Says beside his name, location = Cardiff, Wales


Irish man living there now, good stuff suits you

The closer to West Britain the better I suppose

Terry

ART6 wrote: »

OK, so any land mass should only be controlled by one nation and one people. Historically many land masses have been taken by conquest over the last thousands of years right up to living memory. So now, which nation and people should claim Europe, Asia, Russia, North America?

We're not talking about the Eurasian land mass here.
It an Island of 27,000 square miles.

Terry

GhettoSoldier wrote: »

Says beside his name, location = Cardiff, Wales


Irish man living there now, good stuff suits you

The closer to West Britain the better I suppose

Careful now.

GhettoSoldier

rb_ie wrote: »

So they say, yet they'll happily support a terrorist organisation hell bent on attacking British/Protestants up North.

Its terrible what them republicans done, invaded the protestants land and the penal laws were awful. They wouldn't even give protestants a job, and those poor protestants killed on bloody sunday. Wait that was the other way around. Who are you trying to fool? Lets not forget the loyalist terrorists funded and armed by the British government, who killed catholics for no other reason other than they were catholics. They have openly admitted this. do you condone this?

Dudess

GhettoSoldier wrote: »

Says beside his name, location = Cardiff, Wales


Irish man living there now, good stuff suits you

Pretty surprising the possibility didn't enter your head in the first place, that you just took it as red he was Welsh simply because his location is Wales - even though he used the pronoun "we" and the possessive adjective "our" indicating he's Irish. That's not particularly bright of you. Plus, Wales is hardly a bastion of Little Englanderism.

The closer to West Britain the better I suppose

Oh do grow up. When it comes to the Northern Ireland question, I have always been a nationalist - maybe even a republican (without the following: support for the murder, hatred of moderate unionists - Gordon Wilson was an angel of a man, anti English horsesh1t) but crap like that posted by you and other posters here (again, not dlofnep) does absolutely no favours for the cause.
No doubt you'll accuse me of having neck to refer to myself as a nationalist/republican.

Rb

GhettoSoldier wrote: »

Says beside his name, location = Cardiff, Wales


Irish man living there now, good stuff suits you

The closer to West Britain the better I suppose

Troll. Reported.

GhettoSoldier

When you can't win a debate, resort to reporting me. Not a bad idea.

The amount of West Brits on here is shocking.

Rb

GhettoSoldier wrote: »

Its terrible what them republicans done, invaded the protestants land and the penal laws were awful. They wouldn't even give protestants a job, and those poor protestants killed on bloody sunday. Wait that was the other way around. Who are you trying to fool? Lets not forget the loyalist terrorists funded and armed by the British government, who killed catholics for no other reason other than they were catholics. They have openly admitted this. do you condone this?

Er, no, I don't condone it. But I sure as hell don't support a "political party" with such close ties to a terrorist organisation such as Sinn Fein does. THANKFULLY they'll never get power in this country, or be taken seriously by anyone with the slightest resemblence of a brain.

Dudess

"West Brit" - yawn...

"Can't win a debate?" Wtf? That post was blatant trolling!

Rb

GhettoSoldier wrote: »

When you can't win a debate, resort to reporting me. Not a bad idea.

The amount of West Brits on here is shocking.

Ok just ban this f*cking troll already.

Dudess, ban him, this is a f*cking joke I've been banned from AH for far less.

GhettoSoldier

rb_ie wrote: »

Ok just ban this f*cking troll already.

Dudess, ban him, this is a f*cking joke I've been banned from AH for far less.

Ban me because I pointed out, you condone loyalist death squads while bashing republicans, I agree.

Terry

Shut up, the pair of you.

stakey

menoscemo wrote: »

Secondly it is very sad to see the apathy of people in the no-camp with their purely economic based reasons for voting No. It is really sad to think that we cannot even count on the support of the southern irish people who have it as a part of their constitution that the 6 counties are part of their territory and intend on getting it back.

Erm, nope. The GFA dropped the territorial claim on Northern Ireland replacing articles 2 and 3 with more conciliatory entries that recognised that a United Ireland may only ever take place in accordance with the wishes of the people of Northern Ireland.

The changes to these articles still outline a United Ireland of sorts but accept that it may not be a nation as many a republican would wish for.

As for economic reasons. I would argue that ecomomically it doesn't make sense for the people of the north to integrate their economy with that of the south. A certain level of living is now available in the North due primarily from money poured into the economy by the British state as well as the general strenght of the sterling.

Northern Ireland also has a huge amount of investment in transport, health, power etc which could not be maintained by the southern government which currently struggles to run it's own 26 counties.

One has to think of the logical repercussions of a move to unite Ireland beyond the romantic idealism of a few republicans. Real life scenarios come into play with real lives.

GhettoSoldier

Dudess wrote: »

Oh do grow up. When it comes to the Northern Ireland question, I have always been a nationalist - maybe even a republican (without the following: support for the murder, hatred of moderate unionists - Gordon Wilson was an angel of a man, anti English horsesh1t) but crap like that posted by you and other posters here (again, not dlofnep) does absolutely no favours for the cause.
No doubt you'll accuse me of having neck to refer to myself as a nationalist/republican.

Obviously a joke.

I have no problem with English people at all, just the government

Dudess

GhettoSoldier wrote: »

Ban me because I pointed out, you condone loyalist death squads while bashing republicans, I agree.

Infracted for trolling.

Rb

me wrote:

So, if I'm not Pro-IRA and their actions, I'm pro British.
If I'm not pro-Unity, I'm pro British.

Does that not sum up the attitudes we've seen from a lot of pro-unity people here?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

GhettoSoldier wrote: »

When you can't win a debate, resort to reporting me. Not a bad idea.

The amount of West Europeans on here is shocking.

Once again, fixed.

menoscemo

stakey wrote: »

Erm, nope. The GFA dropped the territorial claim on Northern Ireland replacing articles 2 and 3 with more conciliatory entries that recognised that a United Ireland may only ever take place in accordance with the wishes of the people of Northern Ireland.

The changes to these articles still outline a United Ireland of sorts but accept that it may not be a nation as many a republican would wish for.

As for economic reasons. I would argue that ecomomically it doesn't make sense for the people of the north to integrate their economy with that of the south. A certain level of living is now available in the North due primarily from money poured into the economy by the British state as well as the general strenght of the sterling.

Northern Ireland also has a huge amount of investment in transport, health, power etc which could not be maintained by the southern government which currently struggles to run it's own 26 counties.

One has to think of the logical repercussions of a move to unite Ireland beyond the romantic idealism of a few republicans. Real life scenarios come into play with real lives.

Yes I know, but it was part of your constitiution for most of your life and still recognises the north as part of the country. After all it is the constitituion of Ireland, not the republic of Ireland.
Also the basis of my post which you have ignored points out that we will only gain a United Ireland by a vote in the North. I wholeheartedly recognise that and support it. We are in the process of creating a situation favourable to a majority yes vote at the minute. IMO this will not take longer than 10 years. Huge strides have been made already, who could have imagined the DUp and Sinn Fein working so well together just a few Years ago.

So the question arises, If the north have a majority in favour of a United Ireland what will happen? I believe there actually is no need for a referendum In the Republic because the constitution clrearly states that there will be a united Ireland if the north votes for it. Therefore this poll would be Irrelevant TBH.

Economically The 6 counties was the strongest in Ireland pre 1921, that is one of the main reasons that the British government wanted to hold onto it. The economy was destroyed by the troubles, because up until that point and indeed well into the 1980's/90's the northern economy far outstripped the southern one. I have no doubt that it will thrive over the next few years during peace and by the time a yes vote came about it would be in good shape. Under a united Ireland the economy will thrive even further, therefore i think the economic arguments are irrelevant.

menoscemo

rb_ie wrote: »

Ok just ban this f*cking troll already.

Dudess, ban him, this is a f*cking joke I've been banned from AH for far less.

IMo you should be banned for the following comment:

"Wow, I'm shocked you went through the trouble of typing all that out. Just goes to show how passionate some of you IRA hugging, terrorism supporting, immigrant bashing people really are."
That was said directly to a K'bereger.

Terry

menoscemo wrote: »

IMo you should be banned for the following comment:

"Wow, I'm shocked you went through the trouble of typing all that out. Just goes to show how passionate some of you IRA hugging, terrorism supporting, immigrant bashing people really are."
That was said directly to a K'bereger.

If you have a problem with a post, then report it.
Otherwise just leave it alone.
Thanks.

Rb

menoscemo wrote: »

IMo you should be banned for the following comment:

"Wow, I'm shocked you went through the trouble of typing all that out. Just goes to show how passionate some of you IRA hugging, terrorism supporting, immigrant bashing people really are."
That was said directly to a K'bereger.

It's not personally abusive, it wasn't directed at him personally, it was directed at the group he sides with.

Rb

Terry wrote: »

Thanks.

Thanks.