United Ireland Poll

dlofnep

rb_ie wrote: »

What about the English language?

I'd prefer to be able to speak my own native tongue. I offer no thanks to Britain for banning the Irish language and effectively killing it during the National Schools system. There are many countries who are economically wealthy today who survive just fine without the English language being their first tongue.

Which is why I'm actively trying to learn my own language and currently working on an Irish community project, along with a conversational group in my city.

kreuzberger

kildare paddy wrote: »

dead right mate i think southerners just forget their roots and also RSF/CIRA formed by southerners!

Mickey McKevitts not a northerner either

Rb

kreuzberger wrote: »

i asked him . if his heart says yes then hes clearly conflicted rather than committed

It's because his mind is capable of rational thinking, and said rationality has overruled the feelings on the matter from his heart.

kreuzberger

kreuzberger wrote: »

then would it not be more correct to describe yourself as an undecided rather than a no ?

United Ireland Poll

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If it were up to a vote, would you wish to see a 32 county, taking in to account the consequences of the result within the Unionist community if it were granted

Question "United Ireland, wold you vite yes or no? " my answer is "no"

The question implies the merger is to happen now!, now is not the time!

dlofnep

rb_ie wrote: »

It's because his mind is capable of rational thinking, and said rationality has overruled the feelings on the matter from his heart.

Are we who voted Yes incapable of rational thinking?

javaboy

kreuzberger wrote: »

Its part of your own country ffs

Zzzzz. I was actually arguing on your side against Kold when I first made my point. He was implying that you, Kreuzberger, shouldn't really care about N.I. unless you actually had relatives living there or some other strong connection. I was just pointing out that it shouldn't be a prerequisite to having an opinion on an issue that you have some direct connection to it. But never mind. Carry on.

kildare paddy

yeah but Ruairí Ó Brádaigh is from longford

Rb

dlofnep wrote: »

I'd prefer to be able to speak my own native tongue. I offer no thanks to Britain for banning the Irish language and effectively killing it during the National Schools system. There are many countries who are economically wealthy today who survive just fine without the English language being their first tongue.

Which is why I'm actively trying to learn my own language and currently working on an Irish community project, along with a conversational group in my city.

I doubt we'd be where we are today with the English language tbh. Sure enough there's plenty of huge nations like France and Germany where English isn't their first language and their country has thrived, but I doubt it'd have been the case here.

kreuzberger

Deleted User wrote: »

Question "United Ireland, wold you vite yes or no? " my answer is "no"

The question implies the merger is to happen now!, now is not the time!

thats a silly suggestion . Nobody is calling for an overnight pullout . Even the provos at the height of conflict only called for a declaration of intent to withdraw within 5 or even ten years . Thats an ample time frame to properly plan and decide on constituional structures . The poll said nothing about an immediate withdrawal , just a united Irealnd

Steyr

No, never.

Rb

dlofnep wrote: »

Are we who voted Yes incapable of rational thinking?

Oh absolutely I just think you sometimes let your heart overrule your head on the matter. Passion, I suppose you'd call it. Hence why I suddenly get called a West Brit, get pm's from some little shít who's proud of himself for passing the leaving certificate saying I'm a West Brit and shouldn't call myself Irish etc.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

kreuzberger wrote: »

obviously ,wiith a name like that

So the psoriasis thing is okay then? Trust me, the name DOES come into it if I don't...

And I still need an answer: can I call myself a West European instead of a West brit? If I can;t sleep tonight, I'm blaming YOU (and you're probably blaming the Brits, which, ironically enough....)

kildare paddy

rb_ie wrote: »

How'd you get your 9 honours in the LC with such attrocious English, kildare paddy?

oh right sorry didnt get one in computers!

Rb

kildare paddy wrote: »

oh right sorry didnt get one in computers!

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

That's one of the funniest things I've seen around here for a while, congratulations.

dlofnep

rb_ie wrote: »

I doubt we'd be where we are today with the English language tbh. Sure enough there's plenty of huge nations like France and Germany where English isn't their first language and their country has thrived, but I doubt it'd have been the case here.

Because it's just downright feasible for Ireland to survive using a language that isn't English? Just like a handful of countries in the EU do? It's not washing with me at all.

kreuzberger

kreuzberger wrote: »

i asked him . if his heart says yes then hes clearly conflicted rather than committed

It's a bit like looking at a nice new BMW Heart says I want head says I can't afford I say no to the salesman, I still want it! but an levelheaded enough to walk away and come back when I can have it.

Life's like that.....

dlofnep

rb_ie wrote: »

Oh absolutely I just think you sometimes let your heart overrule your head on the matter. Passion, I suppose you'd call it. Hence why I suddenly get called a West Brit, get pm's from some little shít who's proud of himself for passing the leaving certificate saying I'm a West Brit and shouldn't call myself Irish etc.

I personally have never once labeled you a West Brit nor have I insulted you.. But I'm quite concerned that you consider me irrational because my opinion differs to yours. I wouldn't consider my thinking irrational whatsoever. I'm quite capable of thinking for myself without wrapping it up in passion alone.

On that note, I've got to get some sleep. Exam tomorrow morning and I feel I've expressed everything I need to say on this thread. Night guys.

thelordofcheese

kreuzberger wrote: »

this is plainly over exaggerated sarcasm avoiding the issue that peace talks were delibertely wrecked by sending machine gun toting cops in to break them up

You're acting under the assumption that the Special branch were aware of nature of the talks.
But seeing as you classified them as "machine gun toting" i imagine it's easier to just go with the on going caricture of those phantom 'west brits' that ruin everything.

kreuzberger wrote: »

actually they arrested protestant clergymen . But it seems to have been a terrible idea in the case of the Dublin Monaghan bombings , indeed great efforts were made not to arrest anyone .

No matter how many times you refer to it as solid facts a conspiracy theory is still just that.

kreuzberger wrote: »

Conor CruiseOBrien, Eoghan Harris and others ive referred to clearly are lunatics though . And clealry did have unfettered access to the media along with the ability to censor opposing views in the most draconian and blanket fashion . For decades . Even though OBrien even later joined a northern unionist party and then got thrown out when he said protestants would be better off in a united Ireland .:) :D:):)

Thats is clearly not very rational behaviour . Lets not even dwell on Harris .

Some would say that a hyper optimistic idea for a united ireland is clearly not rational behaviour.

kreuzberger wrote: »

you clearly are not making any sense or any logical contribution to the debate

Because i'm not agreeing with you?

kreuzberger wrote: »

this is the garret fitzgerald/OBrien doom mongering stuff as opposed to the logical analysis ive referred to as being necessary for proper and reasoned deabte. you havent demonstrated how this is actually the case . Ive pointed to clear examples of how it could very easily be funded from our own resources , extra employment created and with plenty left over .

No you havn't, you've made vague allusions to 'democracy' and 'talking' solving everything.
While it's a noble idea it's not a clear example or anything more than wishful thinking

kreuzberger wrote: »

Because its in peoples self interest to . And both sides in the north have plainly not been adverse to discussions . Residents groups opposed to orange parades have always taken the position " no talk = no walk" , meaning they clealrly desired discussion and agreemnt . The orangemen declared they had a right to walk " the queens highway" and refused to talk , instead relying on the British to batter nationalists off the roads.

So , from the example you give one side are prepared to talk and always have been , and in a united Ireland it plainly would not be the queens highway any more . Thats quite obvious . Furthermore unionists would not be in a posiioton of bullying a powerless minority but an empowered majoriity which is a plainly different political equation . Then its very much in their interests to talk when in the previous equation it wasnt . It would not be the British tazxpayer picking up the bill for any rioting but instead the bill would be coming out of their own pockets for any damage they were responsible for . Its they whod suffer directly for any mayhem . . South of the border orangemen have no difficulty whatsoever talking to the local community and gaining their consent . Nobody stops their march in Rossnowlagh or mini marches in Monaghan and cavan ,or even thinks of doing it . They are there with consent , not because they can bully a minority . Thats how a united Ireland would work out .

If i understand you're poorly punctuated ramblings correctly, you believe that the unionist (and only unionists) firstly don't pay taxes which is why the riot with impunity and secondly that should a united ireland happen they'd become a minority so they'd best just get with the program. Because as you've gone out of your way to point out they "bully a minority" to get what they want so when the tables are turned they'll just be treated with respect and dignity?
really?

Well, i think i've got an accurate picture about how you think a united ireland should work.......

Rb

dlofnep wrote: »

I personally have never once labeled you a West Brit nor have I insulted you.. But I'm quite concerned that you consider me irrational because my opinion differs to yours. I wouldn't consider my thinking irrational whatsoever. I'm quite capable of thinking for myself without wrapping it up in passion alone.

On that note, I've got to get some sleep. Exam tomorrow morning and I feel I've expressed everything I need to say on this thread. Night guys.

Oh I wasn't directing it at you personally. I meant those who are pro-unity in general, or enthusiastically(?) pro-unity. You've presented your argument quite well, the same can't be said about some of the pro-unity people here, nor about those you encounter lobbing bricks at orange men etc.

Dudess

rb_ie, don't refer to a fellow poster as a "shit".

Tbh, I'm with the Nationalist side up in the North, but I don't have time for extremism on either side. Kreuzberger et al (not dlofnep): you guys are spouting some awfully extreme, quite fanatical comments.

Pythia wrote: »

Britain made us what we are today. We should be grateful.

The "good" of the Irish wasn't one of the top priorities of the British. I'm grateful for nothing.

kreuzberger

kreuzberger wrote: »

thats a silly suggestion . Nobody is calling for an overnight pullout .

Pullout!!! what's is there to pullout???

Rb

Deleted User wrote: »

Pullout!!! what's is there to pullout???

It seems he basically wants rid of any unionists/loyalists/protestants/"British" from the North. I've already expressed what I think of his ideas on it so won't comment further on it.

Rb

Dudess wrote: »

rb_ie, don't refer to a fellow poster as a "shit".

:pac:

kreuzberger

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

So the psoriasis thing is okay then? Trust me, the name DOES come into it if I don't...

And I still need an answer: can I call myself a West European instead of a West brit? If I can;t sleep tonight, I'm blaming YOU (and you're probably blaming the Brits, which, ironically enough....)

you can call youself westy the wild west cowboy for all i care . But you seem to be displaying a major aversion to just calling yourself Irish like a normal person would .

cournioni

kreuzberger wrote: »

really ? why has this baggage not manifested itself in the likes of Donegal , Cavan , Monaghan and even Dublin ( the former headquarters of the Orange order )? All areas with sizable protestant and formerly unionist populations which happily got along with their neighbours ? why is it the crap only starts accross the line where the British hold sway ?

Historical precedent has shown that disappearance of the British and their malign divide and conquer influence correlates to a disappearance in aforementioned baggage and pain in the collective hole .

These other pro British arguments are deeply conservative and remind me of the dire predicitons from conservative elemnts years ago about change - divorce , contracetion etc . Ohhh the country will fall to bits,,,dont change anything..dont give us a say like normal people . Its the same Irish mentality of low expectations and allowing oneself to be bullied by dire warnings and threats from those intent on keeping the country back and the people in their proper place . Just a different issue .

Who said it was a pro British arguement?? What I am saying is that it would take years upon years to implement would probably hit the people on the island pretty hard.

Of course protestants and catholics in the counties you've listed have no problems (I live in one of them!), that is not what I meant... I meant that the extra security that would need to be deployed in case of an uprising by the hardened Unionists throughout the north would probably cost houndreds of millions. Even if there was no trouble, this security would have to be put in place for a certain period of time to ensure the safety of the people. Lets remember it was costing the Brits millions...

What is there to gain from these extra 6 counties?? Probably a large bill. What do the people of the north have to gain by being part of the Republic? Ten years ago I would have said peace and equality etc. but nowadays? Not a whole pile either... Identity isn't an issue any more.

kreuzberger

Deleted User wrote: »

Pullout!!! what's is there to pullout???

apart from their finger about 5000 troops , a large military intelligence base currently being constructed and most of their NIO people . But we can call it a handover if youd prefer .

kreuzberger

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Who said it was a pro British arguement?? What I am saying is that it would take years upon years to implement would probably hit the people on the island pretty hard.

Of course protestants and catholics in the counties you've listed have no problems (I live in one of them!), that is not what I meant... I meant that the extra security that would need to be deployed in case of an uprising by the hardened Unionists throughout the north would probably cost houndreds of millions. Even if there was no trouble, this security would have to be put in place for a certain period of time to ensure the safety of the people. Lets remember it was costing the Brits millions...

then if such fears arise we should do what others do , this should be a matter for the UN . The hardened unionists never even managed to take short strand , one tiny enclave defended by a handful . I think your over exaggerating the threat . Those too bigotted to stomach a united Ireland would most likely just leave .

What is there to gain from these extra 6 counties?? Probably a large bill.

well over a million extra citizens , extra territory , peace and stability for all time . The issue settled .

What do the people of the north have to gain by being part of the Republic? Ten years ago I would have said peace and equality etc. but nowadays? Not a whole pile either... Identity isn't an issue any more

4 million extra citizens , extra territory , peace stability etc issue settled for good . A no brainer that this is a gain

leninbenjamin

f*ck no. our politicians are a backwards bunch, but ignoring the whole loyalism nationalism driver of NI politics, their politicians are an even more backwards bunch. it be a nightmare to integrate, politically and economically. 15 - 20 years i might change my tune, but not today.

i dont think the UK will consent anytime soon either. i think it's fair to say that they still have some deep rooted fears going back to WWII that ireland could be a platform for invasion should WWIII breakout. hence they keep a foothold in the north to invade from themselves should they ever feel the need.

kreuzberger

kreuzberger wrote: »

apart from their finger about 5000 troops , a large military intelligence base currently being constructed and most of their NIO people . But we can call it a handover if youd prefer .

They live there....

Rb

kreuzberger wrote: »

well over a million extra citizens , extra territory , peace and stability for all time . The issue settled .



4 million extra citizens , extra territory , peace stability etc issue settled for good . A no brainer that this is a gain

LOLOLOLOLOL.

Extra territory is worth jack shít if we've to fork out 7.5 billion to keep it running. The UK government probably provide a load of jobs up there, so when they leave that's a good chunk of people unemployed. Add that to the fact that we're facing an economic downturn, the very, very last thing we need is another 7.5 billion burden and a whole load of people to find jobs for. It would probably cost our government even more than 7.5 billion.

Christ, use your head when you're making a post ffs.