DEAP/BER Issues (Merged)

Villain

sinnerboy wrote: »

Or some people are not offering a proper service . I won't be doing any certs for €225 ....

Whys that Sinnerboy?

No6

Is 225 for new or existing!! for one very small unit or a big one or multiple units??? Its hard to know how long a piece of string is!!:D

Villain

It's for an existing 3 bed semi

sinnerboy

Villain wrote: »

Whys that Sinnerboy?

I don't believe it's possible to discharge a professional service at that rate . Site visit and measure - estimate time 4-6 hours ( including travel ) . Data input 2 hours . Min 1 day . Equates to €28 per hour gross . Expenses and incomes taxes to be met .

Now maybe if the economy continues to evaporate that will look attractive but untill then ....

Villain

Well if you exclude travel costs I don't think many people at the moment can look for more than €225 for a days work, and tbh the market will dictate the price.

Also is it true that auctioneers are now allowed to carry out BER certs just not on buildings on their books?

muffler

Hope this is the right thread but could someone PM the name of a cheap BER assessor.

Villain

Well the price was quote to a friend over the phone, the prices listed by this organisation on another forum are below:

Apartment to 60 sq m €175
Apartment / House to 80 Sq m €200
House to 100 sq m €250
House to 150 Sq m €325

No6

Villain wrote: »

Well the price was quote to a friend over the phone, the prices listed by this organisation on another forum are below:

Apartment to 60 sq m €175
Apartment / House to 80 Sq m €200
House to 100 sq m €250
House to 150 Sq m €325

So to get your 225 for a 3 bed semi you are going for a house under 80m²??? plus 25 SEI fee. It may be possible if its a really old house, most semi's in the last few years would be between 100 and 125m² (125m² was the old first time buyers grant max size!!) which would put it at 325!! Not quite a cheap then is it. Plus VAT!!:D I like this pricing structure it makes you think its cheap but its not as cheap as you think!! what the charge for 150m² plus houses (virtually every one off house in the country!!!)

sinnerboy

I think it's akin to the ****air affect . The headline price is not really the price

No6

How about this!!! Existing Dwellings BER assessments for free!!! :eek: Just pay for expenses, and in very very very small text (sei fee eur 25, travel 10c per m, Printing 50c per A4 sheet.)

so say I'm doing an assessment 1.5km away and using 100 a4 sheet (U value calculations with condensation analysis (about 10 pages per element!!) it will cost 25 + 300 + 50 = 375 and you thought it was for free!!!!

sinnerboy

Villain wrote: »

Well if you exclude travel costs

will you pick me up and drop me home Villain

Villain wrote: »

I don't think many people at the moment can look for more than €225 for a days work, and tbh the market will dictate the price.

We will have to see of course . Just let say that in my case , thankfully , that rate does not motivate .

Villain wrote: »

Also is it true that auctioneers are now allowed to carry out BER certs just not on buildings on their books?

It is true .

Paradoxically I do see myself doing certs for clients as part of the overall service - "thrown in" if you like . I never saw myself chasing the existing market like you are outlining Villain .

2 types of customer will emerge -

Type 1 - get the cert for cheap , not really interested in rating , just want "the piece of paper " . Now MAYBE if an assessor gears up for that market and can obtain and process 2+ assessments per day ( may be possible to become very , very proficient if that is all you do ) , then a reasonable income can be made

Type 2 - will want pre cert assessment , followed by planned and cost/benefit assessed works follows by maximised BER cert rating and , more importantly , a better house .

No6

sinnerboy wrote: »

Paradoxically I do see myself doing certs for clients as part of the overall service - "thrown in" if you like . I never saw myself chasing the existing market like you are outlining Villain .

Funnilly enough I have been doing this (well I charge for doing the BER) with a specification improvement service thrown in for free for my clients and I've had no interest from them whatsoever. I'm doing the certs alright but I cannot get them interested in improving their houses beyone the reg standard. (typical Mayo People!!) I'm charging my non architectural clients a reasonable fee for doing this and when they take me up on it it works out to be a very useful excercise, everyone starts wanting an A rated house untill they cost it out!!!:D

Villain

No6 wrote: »

So to get your 225 for a 3 bed semi you are going for a house under 80m²??? plus 25 SEI fee. It may be possible if its a really old house, most semi's in the last few years would be between 100 and 125m² (125m² was the old first time buyers grant max size!!) which would put it at 325!! Not quite a cheap then is it. Plus VAT!!:D I like this pricing structure it makes you think its cheap but its not as cheap as you think!! what the charge for 150m² plus houses (virtually every one off house in the country!!!)

The quote was for a house that is 98m² and they quoted €225 thats 1050sqft pretty normal size in my area.

Sinnerboy I accept what you say about 2 different type of clients but I think the number of people needing just cert's for houses they are renting or selling will be far far more than those who are building and want to improve their rating

topcatcbr

sydthebeat wrote: »

anyone know what the turn around period is in SEI at the moment from sending the assessment to recieving the cert??

You can print the cert immediatly after publishing to SEI website.

topcatcbr

sinnerboy wrote: »

I don't believe it's possible to discharge a professional service at that rate . Site visit and measure - estimate time 4-6 hours ( including travel ) . Data input 2 hours . Min 1 day . Equates to €28 per hour gross . Expenses and incomes taxes to be met .

Now maybe if the economy continues to evaporate that will look attractive but untill then ....

It is easy to do 2 a day. I have done 5 in a day and that included traveling up to 30 min between houses.

I think you have to be realistic when pricing for this. If I can earn €400 in a day Im quite happy. And I will offer the service my client requires. If they want an improvement spec on top of the standard advisary report they will pay for this.

No6

Topcatcbr is on speed!!!:D was that 5 surveyed in one day or five surveyed and inputed into Deap?

topcatcbr

No6 wrote: »

Topcatcbr is on speed!!!:D was that 5 surveyed in one day or five surveyed and inputed into Deap?

Just the survey
The DEAP took another day

DOCARCH

topcatcbr wrote: »

If I can earn €400 in a day Im quite happy.

€ 400 a day.....I wouldn't bother getting out of bed!

No6

topcatcbr wrote: »

Just the survey
The DEAP took another day

so completed exisitng ber's is 2.5 per day!! not to bad if you can get 2.5 per day!!!

topcatcbr

No6 wrote: »

so completed exisitng ber's is 2.5 per day!! not to bad if you can get 2.5 per day!!!

I dont think there are too many doing just BERs so if you get 3-4 a week it is an extra few quid on top of what you would of been earning already. Now i dont want to make it sound like a great number becuse it is far from this but I wouldnt be doing it if there was nothing in it for me. I am doing it for a year now and started training and setting up for it 18 months ago. I am only now getting to break even now. That said the running costs now are quite low and it dosnt add greatly to my workload and as i have said before i would of done it anyway as CPD for Arch Tech. I would not recomend anyone to set up soley to do BERs as there is no living in it but as an add on to an existing relevent bussiness i could justify it.

No6

I'd be the same doing it as an add on to an existing buisness, I would hope to break even at some stage this early year!!! :eek:

berass

The workshop in Galway for ber assessors is now full.:cool:
Further workshops are in the pipeline for Dublin and Waterford.;)

Further information is available on www.berassoc.ie

bennybronko

Couple of questions for anyone who has done the course.

I have a construction trade background but am not too well up on computers, can anyone tell me how knowledgeable you have to be on computers, how difficult the course is and any recommendations on good instructors to take the course with.

1st post on boards, thanks.

topcatcbr

Hi Benny.

If you can post here you obviously have some knowladge of computers. It is no harm to be fairly profecient and if you could work excel all the better but the computer end of things is not difficult. If you can use excel you should have no probs if you cant id have a look at excel first and if someone could show u the basics it would be great. now it is not all excell but the DEAP program is similar in its function. you could get away without it.

It depends what construction trade backround you come from. If you are familiar with building regs and can do a u-value calc its a great help. you will be shown but a week is a short time if you cannot do some of the basics.

How difficult it is is a relitive question. What you might think is easy i might find difficult.

bennybronko

Cheers TC,
Email and Internet's about my limit, I'll have a browse on excel to try to get the basics, I have an excel training CD which I've never bothered to learn somewhere in the house.

Plastering background however I'm familiar with most building materials and construction procedures.
I've only been thinking about this course in the past few days and I've learned to receive the certificate in March I will have to complete the course in the next two weeks, otherwise I'll have to wait until September when the next batch are issued.
I am considering starting on Saturday for €1,500 as the other available courses in the coming weeks are €2,000. The assessment is the following Saturday.
Do you think it's a lot to learn in one week, for the average Joe.

BTW, I have 20 years experience in construction, I see it as another avenue to provide for my family if the phone calls for work continue to decline.
I would certainly take the occupation seriously and give a thorough and professional service.

topcatcbr

Do I think its allot to learn for the average Joe in one week. Yes. There are assumptions made by the trainers. Firstly they wiil expect that you already have a good grounding on the Building Regs TGD particularly part L. But they wont go too deep into this on the course. It is only a week. (It took me much longer for me to be familiar with them).

You will be thought how to do a U-Value calc on the course. But this is meant as refresher training.

Im sure you will get through it but what happens then. Do you go and teach yourself all the things you didnt learn on the course. This is not an ideal situation.

I dont mean to patronise and i apologise if i sound like i am i am trying to give honest advise because i have seen the trainers take money from people who should never of considered doing this.

As I have said else where this is not a stand alone career but something which should tie in with other services eg Architecture, Engineering, Building Surveying, Renewable energy services, etc.

I could be wrong but i dont see it being offered with a plastering service.

Think about the investment you have to make.

€1500 - €2000 for course
€1215 SEI Fee inc VAT
€900 approx PI & PL Insurance.
Each cert €25 + Vat
Computer

With the average cert costing approx €275 inc Sei fee and VAT and this price is falling all the time it may be along time before you break even on your investment.

I hope this helps.

I am in this now but i would have done it as part of an architectural service anyway. I see it as part of my job.

sydthebeat

quick q on doing an existing BER...

if one room has a suspened timber floor.. and the rest solid...

do i still input 'no' when asked if there is a suspended timber ground floor in the ventilation section.... im thinking i should put in 'no'....

topcatcbr

sydthebeat wrote: »

quick q on doing an existing BER...

if one room has a suspened timber floor.. and the rest solid...

do i still input 'no' when asked if there is a suspended timber ground floor in the ventilation section.... im thinking i should put in 'no'....

This is how i have been doing this. However it will be treated sepretly under floor uvalues

Are you a member of the beraa

If so they have a tech questions section for members

Its quite good for this type of question.

Bigger resource of assessors

Eurorunner

sydthebeat wrote: »

quick q on doing an existing BER...

if one room has a suspened timber floor.. and the rest solid...

do i still input 'no' when asked if there is a suspended timber ground floor in the ventilation section.... im thinking i should put in 'no'....

If memory serves me, its its either in the deap manual or the guidance doc. that came with the latest software. You work on the assumption of whichevers in the majority.

bennybronko

TC, thanks a million for taking the time and effort in your detailed reply.

I agree with you that assessors should have been limited to Architectural and Engineering professions and the integrity of the surveys have been compromised already by people out to make a quick buck and without the required knowledge.

I spoke to a guy today whose brother has an estate agency practice and he said that his brother has a deal with a friend of his who is a qualified assessor to do the surveys for €200, the agent is charging €400. It looks like this will not be uncommon practice, as we all know how some estate agents work.

I'm going to have to give this more consideration over the coming weeks.

In addition; It's an absolute scandal that operators are charging €2000 x 15 pupils for a weeks work. There are obviously costs involved but these rates are outrageous.

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my query.