BBC on mass immigration to Ireland - we have messed it up basically

Hydroquinone

herbieflowers wrote: »

true and all those writers' works were indelibly Irish...it provided the perfect inspiration, haha!

Oscar Wilde's work was indelibly Irish?
Is that sarcasm?
The only person who was more of a West Brit than him was Wellington.

Bob in Belfast

Hydroquinone wrote: »

Oscar Wilde's work was indelibly Irish?
Is that sarcasm?
The only person who was more of a West Brit than him was Wellington.

'An Irish airman foresees his death'?
That's 'Irish'

aphex™

I find it funny how people who arrive here with nothing end up on the same rung of the ladder as the working class Irish i.e. People who've been fairly well established here for generations

Take up the offer of a free education people and almost none of this will affect you!! FFS!!

Dyr

Oscar wilde wrote that? :eek:

Bob in Belfast

Bambi wrote: »

Oscar wilde wrote that? :eek:

Yeats did sorry me a little bit drunk.

mike65

Bambi

The atmosphere was not exactly condusive to creative thinking when pretty much everything was under a close gaze, look what happened to someone like Edna O'Brien and her novel The Country Girls. Its not an earth-shaking piece of prose but she got hammered from the pulpit up and down the country while copies were actually burned in public.

Francis Bacon was gay and a radical artist what chance would he have had if he stayed? It should said he was banished by his fathers conservative attitudes, not the churchs' but John Charles McQuaid was the Archibishop of Dublin when he would have been producing works that proberbly had the bishops doing head twirls.

The social/political evironment was suspcious of "art" that was'nt sanctioned by the Catholic church. Even Bob Geldof got flack only 30 years ago.

Still thats an era that will never return.

Mike.

HollyB

super_furry wrote: »

"Ah sure it'll never happen to us. If we ignore it, it'll just go away."

The alarming thing is the lack of will to even debate the issue on any level for fear of being labelled as racist.

It is very easy for certain groups to hide behind accusations of racism whenever serious concerns are raised about immigration issues. It's an excellent defence.

I remember in the run up to the Citizenship Referendum, a "No" pamphlet was literally shoved into my hand, filled with drivellish sob-story rhetoric about two little babies being born side by side in a hospital but one of those poor little babies would be born entirely without rights, and without a nationality - all it needed was an accompaniment played on a teeny, tiny violin. The Referendum was racist, the Minister for Justice was racist for having dared to suggest such an amendment, everyone who voted in favour of the Referendum was racist, etc.

Now, all deportations are racist, even if those being deported have exhausted the asylum process and failed to qualify for permission to remain.

If every single story told by an asylum seeker, regardless of how implausible or contradictory, is not swallowed hook, line and sinker and the asylum seeker in question is not immediately granted residency and full citizenship, then it's because the immigration authorities are racist.

The denominational schools have had the right to give priority to members of their own denomination and to protect their ethos for years, a right protected under the Equal Status Act, but now this is apparently racist because children not of the particular denomination, who happen to be foreign nationals, are having to wait until the children who are members of that denomination are accommodated.

The racism card is being played so frequently that it's starting to lose its impact. It's like the boy who cried 'wolf' - if racism is cried at every turn, and used as a defence against every possible reservation about immigration, then there is a risk that genuine cases of racism will be ignored.

OPENROAD

Terry wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Serously though, we have messed up.
We allowed hundreds of thousands of people come here unchecked.
We don't have the infrastructure to accomodate them and this is going to lead to ghettoism.

I really do hope the Americans round up all the illegal Irish in the US and send them packing


As for the hundreds of thousands of immigrants here, the majority I am sure are making a great contribution to the country.

However we are a small country and as our government couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery we should limit numbers. But it is the same elsewhere, so I hope we don't complain when the door is shut on us.

thefinalstage

Integration is wrong for two reasons.

1. Some would get large houses and some would get small. The people who get small ones would cry discrimination.

2. Where are all of these houses, school places etc. going to come from?

Mr.Micro

Ireland has created great wealth for many in the last 10 to 12 years and the population on the whole has benefited. Much of that wealth in recent years was created in part by construction and the housing boom whereby a great many ordinary people could make a lot of money by selling their homes ,build a new one and still have plenty left over. That stage is gone for now, but there is still plenty of money out there, so of course there will be mass immigration as we are now seen as a rich country. I do not have a lot of faith in the Government to handle this delicate situation if there is a major downturn(I am not convinced that will happen) and future immigrants may be left disenchanted. Too long the Government here has slavishly followed the UK policies on such matters. Wait to see what the UK does. I suspect if the economy slows down then the economic migrants will as well, as both are directly related,and those that tough it out here will be assimilated into the population.

thefinalstage

Just as an aside. Anybody think that the government wants a down turn in the economy to remove a large number of foreigners from the country free of charge?

HollyB

thelastangryman wrote: »

Just as an aside. Anybody think that the government wants a down turn in the economy to remove a large number of foreigners from the country free of charge?

Would that actually work?

Nevyn

HollyB wrote: »

The denominational schools have had the right to give priority to members of their own denomination and to protect their ethos for years, a right protected under the Equal Status Act, but now this is apparently racist because children not of the particular denomination, who happen to be foreign nationals, are having to wait until the children who are members of that denomination are accommodated.

Wrong, schools were made exempt from the equal status act due to how fúcked up the system is here.

Hydroquinone

thelastangryman wrote: »

Just as an aside. Anybody think that the government wants a down turn in the economy to remove a large number of foreigners from the country free of charge?

I'd say not. Anyone who's old enough to be in government today knows only too well what a drastic state the country was in before the Celtic Tiger started up. Who wants to go back to that?

OPENROAD

Hydroquinone wrote: »

I'd say not. Anyone who's old enough to be in government today knows only too well what a drastic state the country was in before the Celtic Tiger started up. Who wants to go back to that?

Exactly boat loads of Irish leaving daily, living off social welfare in UK and getting free houses and BMWs.

HollyB

Thaedydal wrote: »

Wrong, schools were made exempt from the equal status act due to how fúcked up the system is here.

The various religions set up schools to educate members of their own denomination. To prove the need for a new Catholic school, the parish priest must furnish evidence that enough children are being baptised - not born - in his parish to justify it.

Why, then, is it so unreasonable that the same school give priority to the baptised Catholics it was set up for?

Hydroquinone

OPENROAD wrote: »

Exactly boat loads of Irish leaving daily, living off social welfare in UK and getting free houses and BMWs.

How many people on the dole in the UK do you know who got a free BMW, then?

OPENROAD

Hydroquinone wrote: »

How many people on the dole in the UK do you know who got a free BMW, then?

my mistake,its a Mercedes in the UK, the BMWs are in Ireland;)

thefinalstage

HollyB wrote: »

Would that actually work?

Yes. If there is no money to repatriate the economic migrants will up sticks.

Hydroquinone wrote: »

I'd say not. Anyone who's old enough to be in government today knows only too well what a drastic state the country was in before the Celtic Tiger started up. Who wants to go back to that?

I'm not old enough to talk about that period but my parents say it was bad indeed. All I'm saying is the government will accept everyone, take the economic boom than see a lot of them leave and get a boost to the air line industry. Its all linear.

HollyB

thelastangryman wrote: »

Yes. If there is no money to repatriate the economic migrants will up sticks.

What about welfare tourists?

OPENROAD

thelastangryman wrote: »

Yes. If there is no money to repatriate the economic migrants will up sticks.



Just like the Irish went to where the work was.

thefinalstage

HollyB wrote: »

What about welfare tourists?

They would most likely run as well. Is that the actual term used for them? I thought ti was leeches?

Romero

HollyB wrote: »

The various religions set up schools to educate members of their own denomination. To prove the need for a new Catholic school, the parish priest must furnish evidence that enough children are being baptised - not born - in his parish to justify it.

Why, then, is it so unreasonable that the same school give priority to the baptised Catholics it was set up for?

So True! its not the churches fault that there are not enough schoold for the influx of non-catholics, if the schools are built on Church owned grounds and gets some funding from the church, then they should allow the school to pick catholics children over non-catholics, in fairness my local primary schools take in its fair share of non-catholics, We even have one emmigrant woman who comes in with the face covered bar the eyes and she scares small children, don't see her intergrating into irish society. As the op has stated we are going to end up in a similar mess as the french and the english, as our government has failed to learn any lessons from these two failures of integration.

HollyB

thelastangryman wrote: »

They would most likely run as well.

Why? Unless the dole, child benefit, rent allowance, etc, is either lowered or barred to non-Irish nationals, then a welfare tourist may not feel that they have any need to leave.

Of course, they may find a more profitable country to move to.

Macker

darkman2 wrote: »

Kevin Myers brings it up in the Irish Times every day - I dont see you having a go at him;) Besides I have not started 100 threads on immigration anyway.




Its a serious issue though and probrably the most serious and difficult one we have to try and address now, not later. On a previous point - what I meant by 'social cohesion' being put at risk is that our communities in the Republic have generally got along very well with a couple of bumps in the road. We dont have mass riots between different groups and we generally are a happy and content little nation - seemingly always even when we were dirt poor! We still are but for how long can we sustain it with these numbers of immigrants relative to our size? Like I say look at France and the UK.

Although you make some valid points I don't think Mr. Myers works for the Times no more ,it's all in the detail my friend .

edit for mong spelling

thefinalstage

HollyB wrote: »

Why? Unless the dole, child benefit, rent allowance, etc, is either lowered or barred to non-Irish nationals, then a welfare tourist may not feel that they have any need to leave.

Of course, they may find a more profitable country to move to.

If the country truly goes to hell than the Irish will be looked after first due to increased xenophobia amongst the general populace. Thus the politicians will be increasingly xenophobic and the Irish are given what little there is first.

HollyB

Romero wrote: »

So True! its not the churches fault that there are not enough schoold for the influx of non-catholics, if the schools are built on Church owned grounds and gets some funding from the church, then they should allow the school to pick catholics children over non-catholics, in fairness my local primary schools take in its fair share of non-catholics, We even have one emmigrant woman who comes in with the face covered bar the eyes and she scares small children, don't see her intergrating into irish society. As the op has stated we are going to end up in a similar mess as the french and the english, as our government has failed to learn any lessons from these two failures of integration.

As most Catholic schools do, once they've taken care of their own - going above and beyond the call of duty in some cases. Take one in Balbriggan, for example.

Breda O'Brien, The Irish Times, 8 September 2007 wrote:

St Teresa’s national school, the largest primary school in Balbriggan, is a typical example. It is a Catholic school with about 480 pupils. From senior infants to sixth class, it has about 100 children of non-Irish origin, or newcomer children. Seventy per cent of that 100 are black. Because the school took an extra class of junior infants this year to help out in the crisis, it has about 90 children in those classes, of whom about half are black and one-third are non-Roman Catholic.

If it was a case that they gave priority to a white non-Catholic over a black Catholic or a black non-Catholic who had been on the waiting list longer (unless the white child has a sibling in the school, of course) then a case might be made for racism.

HollyB

thelastangryman wrote: »

If the country truly goes to hell than the Irish will be looked after first due to increased xenophobia amongst the general populace. Thus the politicians will be increasingly xenophobic and the Irish are given what little there is first.

Would that be legal under EU law? Don't EU citizens have to be treated equally?

super-lloyd

Personally I currenty leave in Australia, a country were there are heaps more immigrant than in France (where I leaved before) and probably Ireland I suppose.

Well I never saw such a peacefull, harmonious, racism free country. It's awesome and it all worked out nicely. Now I really wonder why most European country have such "immigration problem" while Australia which has much more immigrant worked out so well....

Other thant that it's true that planning is important and that Australia is filterig its immigrant (but it not always he case)

OPENROAD

HollyB wrote: »

Would that be legal under EU law? Don't EU citizens have to be treated equally?

I would assume they would be treated equally just like we would be in say the UK in a similar situation.