The begrudger attitude towards charity / charitable work

pretty-in-pink

Nope ribbon selling needs to be done in public-

Let people do what they want, yes the charity benefits regardless. ITs annoying to have people toot their own hornsa bout it though. Which is what puts people off- not the fact good is being done, but the fact people are going on and on about it

Krieg

Charity is good and fair play to those who do it

But there are some who deserve to be told to f*** off!
Im referring to the following, which has already been mentioned- Walking down a pedestrian street and have some c*** walk in front of you with a clip board with a big smile 'Hi! would you like to support 'X' charity". Even worse, some wear normal clothes and attempt to strike up a conversation before asking for a donation. Even WORSE (well sort of..) 3 girls in swim wear were doing it last summer on shop street in galway
I say to you people F*** OFF








... damn that felt good

AlmightyCushion

Del2005 wrote: »

What p!sses me off about Bono is that he wants us to write off third world debt. Fair enough, but that debt is part of our countires balance sheet and that twat doesn't even pay tax here. So he wants us to write off debt which may lead to tax hikes, everything still needs paying for, and he moved all his money out of the country to avoid paying tax. It's the cheek of him.

We actually owe the world bank quite a substantial amount of money so they aren't taking any money off us by cancelling the debt. The world bank have probably made more money on interest payments than they have given out.

the_syco

I think people who collect for charities are good. I just hate the **** who not only get paid to do it, but then brag to others of the great work they're being (paid) to do, as if they were doing it for free.

As for Bono, the f**ker is saying we should give all our money away, but I never hear of him giving much to said charities...

Steyr

vorbis wrote: »

I'm curious, do "do gooders" make people feel guilty? Is the begrudgery an attempt to allay that guilt?

Some "do gooders" annoy people as they think they are doing the right thing for EVERYBODY but as we all know NOT everybody may feel like they do.

Del2005

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

We actually owe the world bank quite a substantial amount of money so they aren't taking any money off us by cancelling the debt.

We don't owe the world bank all that much, AFAIK we have one of the lowest debts in the EU.
The money Bono wants us to cancell is debt to third world countries that is on our books. He also wants all counties to do this and again it's tax money he is talking about, but won't pay any himself.

The world bank have probably made more money on interest payments than they have given out.

Thats how all banks work. When does a bank give money away to loose money. When I finish paying my mortgage in the distant futhure I'll have paid twice what I borrowed, thats how loans with interest work. The money in the third world may have been wasted, but whats to stop the rulers of these countries not wasting the money they save on interest payments?

AlmightyCushion

Del2005 wrote: »

We don't owe the world bank all that much, AFAIK we have one of the lowest debts in the EU.
The money Bono wants us to cancell is debt to third world countries that is on our books. He also wants all counties to do this and again it's tax money he is talking about, but won't pay any himself.

Link

€36 billion is quiet a lot of money. I don't know what it's like compared to other EU countries though.

Del2005 wrote: »

Thats how all banks work. When does a bank give money away to loose money. When I finish paying my mortgage in the distant futhure I'll have paid twice what I borrowed, thats how loans with interest work. The money in the third world may have been wasted, but whats to stop the rulers of these countries not wasting the money they save on interest payments?

I know and I agree, I was just pointing it out. Personally I think that restrictions should be put in place for countries borrowing money to ensure that it is spend appropriately.

Jesus Wept

Del2005 wrote: »

W Fair enough, but that debt is part of our countires balance sheet and that twat doesn't even pay tax here. So he

We all avoid tax, avoiding tax is perfectly legal, logical and a normal thing to do.

Give him a break ffs, if there was a legal easy way for you to avoid tax you would, you should anyhow.

So he doesn't pay taxes, it's not his fault that the taxs laws are setup in such a manner.

He has likely helped the country financially in other ways.
U2/Bono have likely brought tourists to Ireland because they are Irish, and hence plenty of money into the economy.

I'm not saying Bono should get sainthood, but give him a break ffs.
The tax thing is a mute point IMO.

unreggd

I dont see the people on the street lookin for donations doing any good

In fact, they're probably at a loss

One group is usually about 5 people, for 5 hours, say 10 an hour

Thats €250

X that by the amount of days they're out, im sure its more than what they earn


I dont think/know of anyone who has a problem with someone else actually doin a good deed, but if they gloat and seek praise, or do it for some stupid reason, then that can p;ss people off

*Page*

unreggd wrote: »

I dont see the people on the street lookin for donations doing any good

In fact, they're probably at a loss

One group is usually about 5 people, for 5 hours, say 10 an hour

Thats €250

X that by the amount of days they're out, im sure its more than what they earn


I dont think/know of anyone who has a problem with someone else actually doin a good deed, but if they gloat and seek praise, or do it for some stupid reason, then that can p;ss people off

€13 an hour for concern workers!!! they get they lunches pained for also

spudster101

Iv absoultely no problem with people doing stuff for charity but what p**ses me off is a person mentioning that they do at every oppurtune moment to people. Passing themselves off as mother theresa or some such.:mad:. And yes i know you have to mention it to get more people involved.

Stephen

The only problems I have with charities are these:

1. Chuggers. **** you.

2. Somebody-please-think-of-the-children-guilt-trip ads.

walshb

Muff_Daddy wrote: »

I agree with the OP actually, it seems no-one in this country can do a good deed without a certain few people questioning whether there is an alteriar motive for doing so.

Taking the Bono example, sometimes I really don't get the hate for the guy, and people are just jumping on the bandwagon because it's 'cool to hate Bono'. He does good things, and whether or not he's in the public eye when he's dong is irrevelant. He's the lead singer in the biggest band in the world for god sake, of course he's going to be in the public eye. Bill Gates and Oprah Winphry do charatible work, and are praised for doing so, hell Bono is a demi-god in America, which really shows the Irish anti-goodwill attitude. Maybe he is a d!ckhead, and deserves the stick he gets, but he really shouldn't be slagged off for charity.

Oh, I did bump into him once in his hotel around 3 years ago, and all I can say is, shades in a lounge......what a sap

Hate is a very strong word and I certainly do not hate Bono.
But let me ask you this?
What has Bono ever done here in Ireland I ask?
I have never heard of a single charitable act for an Irish
person?

Is Bono genuine....that's what I feel needs
to be asked?

I firmly believe he is not because if he was, then maybe
to prove his genuinity, he himself would donate a percentage
of his vast vast millions to these so called good causes.

The man like may others is on a serious ego
trip and once they get the buzz, they just can't STOP.

This guy has the audacity to lecture governments on
how muchh they should be giving to charity. He's basically
taking money off people to give to others.

Why doesn't he and all his cronies simply donate their
vast wealth and STOP robbing money from people
here in Ireland who are earning peanuts in comparison to him...

And to date, Bono has as far as I know, never came out and told
the public that he himself has donated a chunk of his wealth to
help the poor. And don't give me the crap that that's his own
business. If so, then shut up and keep your nose
out of my business Bono and stop telling me that I should
contibute more and more...

walshb

By the way I have no problem whatsoever with charity workers and think the work they do is invaluable. But I believe charity begins at home and you need first to start with your own neighbor. It's the likes of these people who are out
begging us for Africa and Asia and India day in and day out. The very people who would begrudge their own neighbour a crust of bread....This is what bugs me and there are plenty like them around...

You want to be a credible and genuine charity worker, then start at home and do your bit for those who are blatantly in front of your eyes.

Who needs to go thousands of miles away to find a hungry child or a handicapped person or a lonely person etc etc....They are here in Ireland
too.....

Jesus Wept

walshb wrote: »

Hate is a very strong word and I certainly do not hate Bono.
But let me ask you this?
What has Bono ever done here in Ireland I ask?
I have never heard of a single charitable act for an Irish
person?

Is Bono genuine....that's what I feel needs
to be asked?

I firmly believe he is not because if he was, then maybe
to prove his genuinity, he himself would donate a percentage
of his vast vast millions to these so called good causes.

The man like may others is on a serious ego
trip and once they get the buzz, they just can't STOP.

This guy has the audacity to lecture governments on
how muchh they should be giving to charity. He's basically
taking money off people to give to others.

Why doesn't he and all his cronies simply donate their
vast wealth and STOP robbing money from people
here in Ireland who are earning peanuts in comparison to him...

And to date, Bono has as far as I know, never came out and told
the public that he himself has donated a chunk of his wealth to
help the poor. And don't give me the crap that that's his own
business. If so, then shut up and keep your nose
out of my business Bono and stop telling me that I should
contibute more and more...

lol is all I can say.

I am fully *confident* that he does donate to charity, privately.

I'll put this to you, if he said publicly 'I'm going to donate €10 million/€50 million/20% of my earnings', you'd say 'what a d1ckhead, can't you just donate it without looking for praise and thinking your a big shot,
huge fúcking egotistical wanker! etc.

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.


*edit*

walshb

Oh so you are Bono's spokesperson...
Well that answers that then.
I'm sorry, it's official, Bono donates to charity....

And for the record, if Bono came out publicly and said
he himself is donating a percentage of his wealth, then I for
one would afford him more credibility.

So no, I wouldn't criticise him.....

Jesus Wept

walshb wrote: »

Oh so you are Bono's spokesperson...
Well that answers that then.
I'm sorry, it's official, Bono donates to charity....

And for the record, if Bono came out publicly and said
he himself is donating a percentage of his wealth, then I for
one would afford him more credibility.

So no, I wouldn't criticise him.....

Yes I am his spokesperson, didn't you know?

You say that now, but most of the people here who criticise him have gone on about ego, so he would clearly be damned if he did come out and publicly announce he was giving €x to charity.

As I said, he can't win, he can't even break even.

thefinalstage

The-Rigger wrote: »

Yes I am his spokesperson, didn't you know?

You say that now, but most of the people here who criticise him have gone on about ego, so he would clearly be damned if he did come out and publicly announce he was giving €x to charity.

As I said, he can't win, he can't even break even.

Look its simple. He lectures governments to use our taxes to help other countries even though by definition taxes are to keep a country working and not to donate at all. Than he skips out and pays as little tax as he can. Which means he is basically saying that the ordinary folk should pay. He doesn't even have to give directly to charity just pay his taxes like the rest of us!

Jesus Wept

Ah look, you are talking nonsense, I've made my feelings known on the tax bullsh1t, so if you want to know what I think, read up.


How much tax do you pay that you are not due?
Not a fúcking red cent, nor should you, nor should he.

thelastangryman wrote: »

He doesn't even have to give directly to charity just pay his taxes like the rest of us!

He pays every single cent he is due. He didn't write the tax laws.

thelastangryman wrote: »

Look its simple. He lectures governments to use our taxes to help other countries even though by definition taxes are to keep a country working and not to donate at all.

WoW! How quickly we forget? Where would we be without the massive leg up we have gotten over the past decade from the European Union?
We'd wouldn't be near where we are.
Every Tom, Dick and Harry wouldn't be driving new/ish cars and pondering what investment property to spend their SSIA on.

But we got lots of funding and help, and now we are prosperous, so let's shut up shop, whatever we do let's not try and help anyone else out, that would cost us our money.

Since when we were donating all our tax revenue anyhow? I must of missed the most recent budget.

smirkingmaurice

be great if bono could do a bit for the old and sick in this country besides dodging taxes and treating the ordinary irish people like the monkeys we are

KIVES

walshb wrote: »

By the way I have no problem whatsoever with charity workers and think the work they do is invaluable. But I believe charity begins at home and you need first to start with your own neighbor. It's the likes of these people who are out
begging us for Africa and Asia and India day in and day out. The very people who would begrudge their own neighbour a crust of bread....This is what bugs me and there are plenty like them around...

You want to be a credible and genuine charity worker, then start at home and do your bit for those who are blatantly in front of your eyes.

Who needs to go thousands of miles away to find a hungry child or a handicapped person or a lonely person etc etc....They are here in Ireland
too.....

Similar to the last generation in Ireland who had no problems giving money in the Church Gate collection to the stricken people of 'Biafra' or to that common cliche - 'the poor black babies...' yet it's a different matter when the 'poor black baby' is now next door - it's all relative but I stand accused of giving money to Amnesty to fight causes of social injustice and the like in Central America yet finding it hard to throw a homeless man 50 cent on our own streets - I could be wrong but we tend to be more cynical when it comes to our own destitute

smirkingmaurice

and now, and i dont mean this offensively, now the black baby is like a gucci handbag, new fashion accessory among the mutant hollywood gang, scary

Eoin

As much as I hate to defend the pompous little monkeyman - I believe it was U2's company that was moved to Holland, not just his; he is just a shareholder in it. Bono doesn't lecture the everyday person on donating money, he gets at heads of state etc (no matter how many newspapers and magazines he has to appear in, bless him). Everyone who has a pension fund is avoiding tax.

Muff_Daddy

walshb wrote: »

Hate is a very strong word and I certainly do not hate Bono.
But let me ask you this?
What has Bono ever done here in Ireland I ask?
I have never heard of a single charitable act for an Irish
person?

Is Bono genuine....that's what I feel needs
to be asked?

I firmly believe he is not because if he was, then maybe
to prove his genuinity, he himself would donate a percentage
of his vast vast millions to these so called good causes.

The man like may others is on a serious ego
trip and once they get the buzz, they just can't STOP.

This guy has the audacity to lecture governments on
how muchh they should be giving to charity. He's basically
taking money off people to give to others.

Why doesn't he and all his cronies simply donate their
vast wealth and STOP robbing money from people
here in Ireland who are earning peanuts in comparison to him...

And to date, Bono has as far as I know, never came out and told
the public that he himself has donated a chunk of his wealth to
help the poor. And don't give me the crap that that's his own
business. If so, then shut up and keep your nose
out of my business Bono and stop telling me that I should
contibute more and more...

You make a good point about Bono seemingly not doing anyhing for Ireland, but the rest of your post is full of the typical 'Bono is looking for publicity' attitude of people, and thats who I was refering to in my post. You may believe charity starts at home, fair enough, but you can't just dismiss the fact that he is looking further from home to help people. And yes, he has done good work for charity. If by convincing 1% of the population to help 3rd world countries, that is doing something positive. Do you really believe he hasn't contributed a single penny to charity?

You talk about his 'vast wealth' that he and U2 have accumulated, and you say that he should donate his wealth (I'm positive that he does BTW), and he should stop mooching of us, but I would rebut that by saying 1) Why do you care what he does with his money and 2) He can't force us to hand over money to the poor, it's a choice an individual makes, so how is he 'robbing' us? If you don't like him, simply ignore him.

TBH, I've had a few jars, so I don't know how much sense the above made.

odyssey06

Bono's actions and attitudes are the textbook definition of hypocrisy. He's all for ordinary Irish people to pay higher taxes to help the Third World but not for himself.

What was the first thing he did when the irish government changed the tax laws? He took his money out of the country. That is his right, but if he then turns around and lectures us on how to spend our money and our tax money then he should be slaughtered publicly. I have no respect for anything Bono says on this issue because of this.
We care about what he does with his money because he wants to use our (taxpayers) money for his causes but isn't willing to subject his own money to Irish law.

It would be more defensible if Bono was simply encouraging people as private citizens to donate more, as he could argue that that is what he does.

By trying to get the Irish government to change its policy on debt he is trying to force 'us', that is, the Irish people, to hand over our money. I certainly don't have the option that he does to move millions of euros around the globe as I see fit. I don't have a team of accountants working for me to find every little loophole and tax exemption. Bono is a major shareholder in that company that moved the money, I don't remember him publicly criticising it? I don't remember threatening to sell his shares?

odyssey06

KIVES wrote: »

Similar to the last generation in Ireland who had no problems giving money in the Church Gate collection to the stricken people of 'Biafra' or to that common cliche - 'the poor black babies...' yet it's a different matter when the 'poor black baby' is now next door - it's all relative but I stand accused of giving money to Amnesty to fight causes of social injustice and the like in Central America yet finding it hard to throw a homeless man 50 cent on our own streets - I could be wrong but we tend to be more cynical when it comes to our own destitute

(1) The Republic of Ireland has one of the most generous welfare systems of any country in the world for non-nationals. The amount of money spent on caring for one 'poor black baby' in Ireland would support at least 10 in their home countries. The problems of those children in their home countries dwarf those in Ireland, they are more like the problems of Ireland circa 1840 than the Ireland of 2007 - or even 1955 or 1985. So if you have only 100 euros to spend and you want to do the most 'good' with it, I think it is reasonable to argue that it is better spent outside Ireland.

(2) There is a world of difference between a child starving in a famine over which they have no control and someone who is on the streets because of medical\drug\alcohol problems. I don't think it's a question of cynicism, they are entirely different situations.

Degsy

If Bono has done so much for the people of this country,maybes somebody can remind me of the last time him and his PLC palyed a ffree gig in Ireland?Self Aid perhaps,back in 1986?Not person saw a single penny that was raised from that farago and U2 just happened to hold an (expensive) gig in croke park the next year.The irish concert-going public are a cash cow for every has-been act from Paul McCartney to Billy Joel and Phil Collins,and every so often U2 charge more than anybody to the people that stood by them in spite of thier bullshiit and hypocrasy.

Terry

odyssey06 wrote: »

Bono's actions and attitudes are the textbook definition of hypocrisy. He's all for ordinary Irish people to pay higher taxes to help the Third World but not for himself.

What was the first thing he did when the irish government changed the tax laws? He took his money out of the country. That is his right, but if he then turns around and lectures us on how to spend our money and our tax money then he should be slaughtered publicly. I have no respect for anything Bono says on this issue because of this.
We care about what he does with his money because he wants to use our (taxpayers) money for his causes but isn't willing to subject his own money to Irish law.

It would be more defensible if Bono was simply encouraging people as private citizens to donate more, as he could argue that that is what he does.

By trying to get the Irish government to change its policy on debt he is trying to force 'us', that is, the Irish people, to hand over our money. I certainly don't have the option that he does to move millions of euros around the globe as I see fit. I don't have a team of accountants working for me to find every little loophole and tax exemption. Bono is a major shareholder in that company that moved the money, I don't remember him publicly criticising it? I don't remember threatening to sell his shares?

Bono is looking for our money?
Really?

When did we become one of the G8 countries and why wasn't I notified?

If you're going to criticise someone for their charity work, then at least do some research first.

http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/whatwewant/debt.shtml

Edit: Just saw your post, Degsy.
Seriously, what's the problem with going to a U2 gig?
If you don't like them, don't buy a ticket. Nobody is holding a gun to your head.

Why should they do a free gig?

odyssey06

Terry wrote: »

Bono is looking for our money?
Really?

Yes.

"At a concert last year in Croke Park, Dublin's biggest stadium, Bono appealed to Prime Minister Bertie Ahern to raise overseas aid to 0.7 percent of gross national product by 2007 from 0.5 percent now. The crowd responded by booing Ahern."

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&refer=home&sid=aef6sR60oDgM

I wonder how much of that 0.2 percent would be gained if we could have taxed Bono's money at 42%? Pity he never gave us the chance. There's a serious offer Bono could have made. I'll vote for my company to stay in Ireland if Bertie votes to increase aid to 0.7 percent. That's what someone genuine, i.e. not a sanctimonious, publicity-seeking, ego-tripping hypocrite, would have done.

Are we really expected to believe that Bono would put pressure on G8 countries but not Ireland to debt abolition programs? Are we really expected to believe that if G8 nations agreed to the plan that Ireland wouldn't come under pressure to adopt it also?

Terry

odyssey06 wrote: »

Yes.

"At a concert last year in Croke Park, Dublin's biggest stadium, Bono appealed to Prime Minister Bertie Ahern to raise overseas aid to 0.7 percent of gross national product by 2007 from 0.5 percent now. The crowd responded by booing Ahern."

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&refer=home&sid=aef6sR60oDgM

I wonder how much of that 0.2 percent would be gained if we could have taxed Bono's money at 42%? Pity he never gave us the chance. There's a serious offer Bono could have made. I'll vote for my company to stay in Ireland if Bertie votes to increase aid to 0.7 percent. That's what someone genuine, i.e. not a sanctimonious, publicity-seeking, ego-tripping hypocrite, would have done.

Are we really expected to believe that Bono would put pressure on G8 countries but not Ireland to debt abolition programs? Are we really expected to believe that if G8 nations agreed to the plan that Ireland wouldn't come under pressure to adopt it also?

Publicity stunt.

You can't really ask all these world leaders to drop debt without asking the same of the leader of your own country.

Also, so what if Bertie increased aid to those who need it? Is that such a bad thing?

I wonder if some of the Choctaw indians felt the same way in the 1840's.