The begrudger attitude towards charity / charitable work

TheThing!

The fact is that most people only do charity work to make themselves feel good. There is no such thing as a completely selfless action. So it is okay to hate charity do gooders

Degsy

Terry wrote: »

Why is it not his place?


What really struck me about your post though was this little nugget:

What has that got to do wth anything?
You just destroyed any credibility you had left with that comment.

Out of context it means little BUT..what i said was "he's a protestant who pretends to come from ballymun".What i also said was he writes nonsensical songs that he pretends are about the troubles.He usually introduces Sunday Bloody Sunday with "there's been a lot of talk about this song,maybe too much talk,this song is not a rebel song..".Now,he's actaully covering his arse quiet well in saying its nota rebel song,but why does he need to mention the words "rebel" in the same breath as "bloody sunday"?Because he's a fake.There was a big nationalist movement in the 1980's and he wanted to pretend that his band were the voice of that dissafected,working-class youth.He pretends to be from the mean streets of ballymun centarl whereas in fact he was born in a big house (in a protestant enclave) around the corner.So then he was pretending to spout a nationalist perspective(which he wasnt,it was all to sell records),and now he's peddling some eco/humanist bollocks to try and sell MORE records.He's a fake and a hypocrite.

Terry

Again, what has him being a Protestant got to do with anything?

As for the big house, I've was out that way one night. A friend works with a guy who lives there and it's just another average housing estate. Nothing big or special about it.

Also, he hasn't used the "This is not a rebel song" line for many, many years now.

As for going for the nationalist audience, I don't think the IRA saw it that way. Why else would he have recieved a death threat from them?

Degsy

Terry wrote: »

Again, what has him being a Protestant got to do with anything?

As for the big house, I've was out that way one night. A friend works with a guy who lives there and it's just another average housing estate. Nothing big or special about it.

Also, he hasn't used the "This is not a rebel song" line for many, many years now.

As for going for the nationalist audience, I don't think the IRA saw it that way. Why else would he have recieved a death threat from them?

Because he deliberatly hid the fact during a sensitive time

Because its no longer trendy to be nationalist

The houses there are a good bit bigger than average and a sight bigger than the flats in ballymun.

Why would the IRA bother threatening him?Dont believe a word of it,if they wanted him dead,he'd be dead.

Terry

Degsy wrote: »

Because he deliberatly hid the fact during a sensitive time

Because its no longer trendy to be nationalist

The houses there are a good bit bigger than average and a sight bigger than the flats in ballymun.

Why would the IRA bother threatening him?Dont believe a word of it,if they wanted him dead,he'd be dead.

It was something he said after the Enniskillen bombing.

He was in America at the time and there was a threat made. I think those higher up put a stop to anything being done though.

I'll look for a link later.
It was in 1987, so it's not going to be easy to find.

He actually had a go at the IRA twice that week.
Once during an impromptu gig in San Francisco and then the following night in Denver (I think).
Some guy at the SF gig had a flag with Sinn Fein and U2 written on it. Bono had a go at the guy and declared U2 had nothing to do with Sinn Fein.
Again, hardly the words of someone trying to gain a nationalist audience.

You're grasping at straws here, Degsy.

Degsy

Terry wrote: »

It was something he said after the Enniskillen bombing.

He was in America at the time and there was a threat made. I think those higher up put a stop to anything being done though.

I'll look for a link later.
It was in 1987, so it's not going to be easy to find.

He actually had a go at the IRA twice that week.
Once during an impromptu gig in San Francisco and then the following night in Denver (I think).
Some guy at the SF gig had a flag with Sinn Fein and U2 written on it. Bono had a go at the guy and declared U2 had nothing to do with Sinn Fein.
Again, hardly the words of someone trying to gain a nationalist audience.

You're grasping at straws here, Degsy.

Ah,so he was talking out of both sides of his mouth.Sounds about right.

vorbis

TheThing! wrote: »

The fact is that most people only do charity work to make themselves feel good. There is no such thing as a completely selfless action. So it is okay to hate charity do gooders

thanks theThing for articulating the begrudging attitude in only a few lines!
There is nothing wrong with doing charity work to make yourself feel good.

WlashB, I have never seen someone get so bitter about charity donations! The irish governemnt has wasted far more money on public infrastructure project overruns than it will ever spend on charity. Your bitterness towards John O Shea is frankly bizarre. Did he run over your pet cat??

Degsy, complaining about Bono being a protestant is bigoted. He lives in a big house, wow! Lets go hang Bono.

Imo, seeing Bono as anything other than a world famous musician who's asking world leaders to cancel third world debts is your own problem.

-Leelo-

Hmmm I think this turning into a who hates / loves Bono the most thread.

Anyways, back to the point, I dont hate people who do charity work, if thats how they wish to spend their time / money, that's fair enough but what I do hate is those ones on O' Connell Street in their Day-Glo bibs trying to make you feel guilty for shopping.
Example - was out shopping for an outfit one day as I was graduating from school that night when one of them stops me and proceeds to ask me what I'd bought, and I, like the big fecking eejit I was, told him it was a dress for my graduation, and he then asks me how much I paid for it, which I thought was a bit cheeky but told him anyway, and he went on to inform me that what I paid for my dress could have fed X amount of African children for a certain period. The cheek, fair enough if these people want to work for charity but how dare they begrudge us stuff we've worked bloody hard to get.

walshb

vorbis wrote: »

thanks theThing for articulating the begrudging attitude in only a few lines!
There is nothing wrong with doing charity work to make yourself feel good.

WlashB, I have never seen someone get so bitter about charity donations! The irish governemnt has wasted far more money on public infrastructure project overruns than it will ever spend on charity. Your bitterness towards John O Shea is frankly bizarre. Did he run over your pet cat??

Degsy, complaining about Bono being a protestant is bigoted. He lives in a big house, wow! Lets go hang Bono.

Imo, seeing Bono as anything other than a world famous musician who's asking world leaders to cancel third world debts is your own problem.

You obviously didn't read my post. I am not bitter, just skeptical and I explained
why. I personally believe that the vast majority of these overseas charities are not genuine
and are no more than a business and poverty is big business......

He had NO time for his own people...that says it all and he said so himself on the Late Late

Degsy

-Leelo- wrote: »

Hmmm I think this turning into a who hates / loves Bono the most thread.

Anyways, back to the point, I dont hate people who do charity work, if thats how they wish to spend their time / money, that's fair enough but what I do hate is those ones on O' Connell Street in their Day-Glo bibs trying to make you feel guilty for shopping.
Example - was out shopping for an outfit one day as I was graduating from school that night when one of them stops me and proceeds to ask me what I'd bought, and I, like the big fecking eejit I was, told him it was a dress for my graduation, and he then asks me how much I paid for it, which I thought was a bit cheeky but told him anyway, and he went on to inform me that what I paid for my dress could have fed X amount of African children for a certain period. The cheek, fair enough if these people want to work for charity but how dare they begrudge us stuff we've worked bloody hard to get.

`

That reminds me of during the original Live Aid concert,Bob Geldof was telling people not to go down the pub but to stay in and give all the money they would have "wasted" to the appeal.Why?Why,should somebody who has maybe worked the last 40 hours in some poxy job give up the one thing they had to look forward to because he said so?He was friends with all the musicians taking part,the criteria for selecting the acts was(i think) ten million album sales.Why didnt he ask each of the bands for a million quid instead of bullying cash out of ther average working stiff?Its worth noting that he attained multimillionaire staus not long after he did Live Aid and the project itself didnt do a damn thing to end world hunger.

odyssey06

-Leelo- wrote: »

he went on to inform me that what I paid for my dress could have fed X amount of African children for a certain period. The cheek, fair enough if these people want to work for charity but how dare they begrudge us stuff we've worked bloody hard to get.

Sounds like a muppet. Stupid and rude. For all he knows that dress was made by X amount of African children

But seriously, let's look at who else benefitted when you bought the dress. You paid at least 20% in tax to the government to spend on such important things as the police, roads and hospitals. You are helping to employ :
the people who worked in the shop
the people who delivered the dress to the shop
the people who made the dress.
the people who harvested the raw materials that made the dress.

For that, you should feel guility? I don't think so. These people don't have a clue about economics. Half the problems in the world are caused by idiotic good intentions.

Latchy

vorbis wrote: »

thanks theThing for articulating the begrudging attitude in only a few lines!
There is nothing wrong with doing charity work to make yourself feel good.

No absolutley not ,if i spent a week out doing somthing that would help sombody else it would make me feel better i am sure, and many individuals both rich and not so rich ,make or give donations under the rule that it is not advertised in the media .The whole children in need thing is an opportunity for lots of celebs to be seeing doing there bit for the greater good (while rasing their own profiles as well) , but i suppose celebritys 'sell' and is what you might call a nessacary evil, however a well known irish /british celeb made the headlines early this year when it was revealed he earned a big sum for hosting the programme which he has done for many years.

=odyssey06;54386247]The sad thing is that if you multiply the figures by 1 million, change the name 'team leader' to 'president\dictator' and 'snooker hall' to 'hospital\airport' you pretty much describe the situation with the billions given in foreign aid to many Third World regimes.

It just goes round in circles, when you read about some despot in some african country who has added another roll's royce as a wedding gift to himself ,to the other 8 he has ,with charity millions that were ment to be for his people.... then you have to wonder

Latchy

Degsy wrote: »

`

That reminds me of during the original Live Aid concert,Bob Geldof was telling people not to go down the pub but to stay in and give all the money they would have "wasted" to the appeal.Why?Why,should somebody who has maybe worked the last 40 hours in some poxy job give up the one thing they had to look forward to because he said so?He was friends with all the musicians taking part,the criteria for selecting the acts was(i think) ten million album sales.Why didnt he ask each of the bands for a million quid instead of bullying cash out of ther average working stiff?Its worth noting that he attained multimillionaire staus not long after he did Live Aid and the project itself didnt do a damn thing to end world hunger.

So true, he is now a ' Sir ' and what we term in uk ' part of the establisment ' .

odyssey06

Degsy wrote: »

Its worth noting that he attained multimillionaire staus not long after he did Live Aid and the project itself didnt do a damn thing to end world hunger.

Unfortunately it's true that Live Aid, in terms of consequences for the people of Ethiopia was something of a disaster. The money\resources could have saved lives but given the political situation in Ethiopia it was used by Ethiopia's rulers to further their own agenda and not to help the people who needed it.

But to be honest I think that Bob Geldof really thought he was making a difference, and in a naive way, got carried away with the idea that he could, which led to some rather stupid rants...

humanji

Degsy wrote: »

`

That reminds me of during the original Live Aid concert,Bob Geldof was telling people not to go down the pub but to stay in and give all the money they would have "wasted" to the appeal.Why?Why,should somebody who has maybe worked the last 40 hours in some poxy job give up the one thing they had to look forward to because he said so?He was friends with all the musicians taking part,the criteria for selecting the acts was(i think) ten million album sales.Why didnt he ask each of the bands for a million quid instead of bullying cash out of ther average working stiff?Its worth noting that he attained multimillionaire staus not long after he did Live Aid and the project itself didnt do a damn thing to end world hunger.

At least he tried. And he did get a lot of musicians to give money, and he himself gave. Just because he didn't give everything he owned doesn't mean his heart wasn't in the right place. And then you're forgetting about the fact that because of Live Aid, and mostly due to them showing the pictures of the starving children then, that millions of people have devoted themselves to charities and hundreds of millions of euros have been raised over the years.

If everyone thought a bit more like him, then there would be no world hunger. But most people don't give a ****. We've our own lives to sort out first.

Degsy

humanji wrote: »

At least he tried. And he did get a lot of musicians to give money, and he himself gave. Just because he didn't give everything he owned doesn't mean his heart wasn't in the right place. And then you're forgetting about the fact that because of Live Aid, and mostly due to them showing the pictures of the starving children then, that millions of people have devoted themselves to charities and hundreds of millions of euros have been raised over the years.

If everyone thought a bit more like him, then there would be no world hunger. But most people don't give a ****. We've our own lives to sort out first.

And hundreds of millions of euro have been creamed off by the charities themselves to pay for salaries for the staff.Cahrities are big business and there's a lot of money to be made from other people's misery.Live Aid was a failure because throwing western money at an african problem was nevr going to be the answer..corruption and greed is whats keeping people hungry not people like me going to the pub.If you want to bring african countries to the level of european countries you'd need to invade them,chuck out the corrupt rulers and start all over agin.Why the hell we should bother anymore is beyond me,i didnt go asking the ethiopean embassy for money when i was short of cash.

vorbis

ah the chestnut of charities paying their staff!!!
How shocking, you mean they would never be able to get someone to work full time for them if they didn't pay them. Its a handy argument for a begrudger to fall back on though. People seem to ignore the fact that the charities wouldn't exist without the staff.

The lambasting for Bob Geldof is pure nastiness tbh. It was a determined effort to raise money for famine relief. It wasn't 100% successful. However I'd give him a lot more credit than the likes of Degsy who do nothing and then compalin that he didn't end world hunger!

Ciaran500

Degsy wrote: »

And hundreds of millions of euro have been creamed off by the charities themselves to pay for salaries for the staff.

http://www.unicef.org/about/who/index_faq.html - 2nd last question

93% goes to their various programmes.

walshb

Did anyone happen to see page 26 of the Daily Star today??

If that doesn't tell you the sad state of affairs that this
country is in..

Sean Dunne is now on the charity bandwagon...

South Africa...

One of the worlds most powerful countries is
benefitting greatly from the work of Niall Mellon.

I wonder if Mellon ever built a poxy wall in Ireland for nothing.
I have never seen such merciful acts of charity on these shores from
the likes of him and Sean Dunne....

Terry

vorbis wrote: »

ah the chestnut of charities paying their staff!!!
How shocking, you mean they would never be able to get someone to work full time for them if they didn't pay them. Its a handy argument for a begrudger to fall back on though. People seem to ignore the fact that the charities wouldn't exist without the staff.

The lambasting for Bob Geldof is pure nastiness tbh. It was a determined effort to raise money for famine relief. It wasn't 100% successful. However I'd give him a lot more credit than the likes of Degsy who do nothing and then compalin that he didn't end world hunger!

Well said.

I saw the little nugget above about him being knighted.
Another begrudging statement.

At least he tried.
I'm afraid to try now though. I don't want to be torn a new one by my countrymen.

havana

the_syco wrote: »

I
As for Bono, the f**ker is saying we should give all our money away, but I never hear of him giving much to said charities...

And if we did hear how much he gave to charity there would be a huge thread on here giving him mounds of abuse for broadcasting how much he gave to charity.

Degsy

havana wrote: »

And if we did hear how much he gave to charity there would be a huge thread on here giving him mounds of abuse for broadcasting how much he gave to charity.

Proper order..as a musician his job is to write nonsensical songs and cavort around in a pair of stupid-looking shades,not tell the world what they should be doing with thier money.