The begrudger attitude towards charity / charitable work

KIVES · 09-11-2007 1:33am

walshb wrote: »

By the way I have no problem whatsoever with charity workers and think the work they do is invaluable. But I believe charity begins at home and you need first to start with your own neighbor. It's the likes of these people who are out
begging us for Africa and Asia and India day in and day out. The very people who would begrudge their own neighbour a crust of bread....This is what bugs me and there are plenty like them around...

You want to be a credible and genuine charity worker, then start at home and do your bit for those who are blatantly in front of your eyes.

Who needs to go thousands of miles away to find a hungry child or a handicapped person or a lonely person etc etc....They are here in Ireland
too.....

Similar to the last generation in Ireland who had no problems giving money in the Church Gate collection to the stricken people of 'Biafra' or to that common cliche - 'the poor black babies...' yet it's a different matter when the 'poor black baby' is now next door - it's all relative but I stand accused of giving money to Amnesty to fight causes of social injustice and the like in Central America yet finding it hard to throw a homeless man 50 cent on our own streets - I could be wrong but we tend to be more cynical when it comes to our own destitute

smirkingmaurice · 09-11-2007 1:41am

and now, and i dont mean this offensively, now the black baby is like a gucci handbag, new fashion accessory among the mutant hollywood gang, scary

Eoin · 09-11-2007 1:59am

As much as I hate to defend the pompous little monkeyman - I believe it was U2's company that was moved to Holland, not just his; he is just a shareholder in it. Bono doesn't lecture the everyday person on donating money, he gets at heads of state etc (no matter how many newspapers and magazines he has to appear in, bless him). Everyone who has a pension fund is avoiding tax.

Muff_Daddy · 09-11-2007 2:01am

walshb wrote: »

Hate is a very strong word and I certainly do not hate Bono.
But let me ask you this?
What has Bono ever done here in Ireland I ask?
I have never heard of a single charitable act for an Irish
person?

Is Bono genuine....that's what I feel needs
to be asked?

I firmly believe he is not because if he was, then maybe
to prove his genuinity, he himself would donate a percentage
of his vast vast millions to these so called good causes.

The man like may others is on a serious ego
trip and once they get the buzz, they just can't STOP.

This guy has the audacity to lecture governments on
how muchh they should be giving to charity. He's basically
taking money off people to give to others.

Why doesn't he and all his cronies simply donate their
vast wealth and STOP robbing money from people
here in Ireland who are earning peanuts in comparison to him...

And to date, Bono has as far as I know, never came out and told
the public that he himself has donated a chunk of his wealth to
help the poor. And don't give me the crap that that's his own
business. If so, then shut up and keep your nose
out of my business Bono and stop telling me that I should
contibute more and more...

You make a good point about Bono seemingly not doing anyhing for Ireland, but the rest of your post is full of the typical 'Bono is looking for publicity' attitude of people, and thats who I was refering to in my post. You may believe charity starts at home, fair enough, but you can't just dismiss the fact that he is looking further from home to help people. And yes, he has done good work for charity. If by convincing 1% of the population to help 3rd world countries, that is doing something positive. Do you really believe he hasn't contributed a single penny to charity?

You talk about his 'vast wealth' that he and U2 have accumulated, and you say that he should donate his wealth (I'm positive that he does BTW), and he should stop mooching of us, but I would rebut that by saying 1) Why do you care what he does with his money and 2) He can't force us to hand over money to the poor, it's a choice an individual makes, so how is he 'robbing' us? If you don't like him, simply ignore him.

TBH, I've had a few jars, so I don't know how much sense the above made.

odyssey06 · 09-11-2007 10:06am

Bono's actions and attitudes are the textbook definition of hypocrisy. He's all for ordinary Irish people to pay higher taxes to help the Third World but not for himself.

What was the first thing he did when the irish government changed the tax laws? He took his money out of the country. That is his right, but if he then turns around and lectures us on how to spend our money and our tax money then he should be slaughtered publicly. I have no respect for anything Bono says on this issue because of this.
We care about what he does with his money because he wants to use our (taxpayers) money for his causes but isn't willing to subject his own money to Irish law.

It would be more defensible if Bono was simply encouraging people as private citizens to donate more, as he could argue that that is what he does.

By trying to get the Irish government to change its policy on debt he is trying to force 'us', that is, the Irish people, to hand over our money. I certainly don't have the option that he does to move millions of euros around the globe as I see fit. I don't have a team of accountants working for me to find every little loophole and tax exemption. Bono is a major shareholder in that company that moved the money, I don't remember him publicly criticising it? I don't remember threatening to sell his shares?

odyssey06 · 09-11-2007 10:15am

KIVES wrote: »

Similar to the last generation in Ireland who had no problems giving money in the Church Gate collection to the stricken people of 'Biafra' or to that common cliche - 'the poor black babies...' yet it's a different matter when the 'poor black baby' is now next door - it's all relative but I stand accused of giving money to Amnesty to fight causes of social injustice and the like in Central America yet finding it hard to throw a homeless man 50 cent on our own streets - I could be wrong but we tend to be more cynical when it comes to our own destitute

(1) The Republic of Ireland has one of the most generous welfare systems of any country in the world for non-nationals. The amount of money spent on caring for one 'poor black baby' in Ireland would support at least 10 in their home countries. The problems of those children in their home countries dwarf those in Ireland, they are more like the problems of Ireland circa 1840 than the Ireland of 2007 - or even 1955 or 1985. So if you have only 100 euros to spend and you want to do the most 'good' with it, I think it is reasonable to argue that it is better spent outside Ireland.

(2) There is a world of difference between a child starving in a famine over which they have no control and someone who is on the streets because of medical\drug\alcohol problems. I don't think it's a question of cynicism, they are entirely different situations.

Degsy · 09-11-2007 10:28am

If Bono has done so much for the people of this country,maybes somebody can remind me of the last time him and his PLC palyed a ffree gig in Ireland?Self Aid perhaps,back in 1986?Not person saw a single penny that was raised from that farago and U2 just happened to hold an (expensive) gig in croke park the next year.The irish concert-going public are a cash cow for every has-been act from Paul McCartney to Billy Joel and Phil Collins,and every so often U2 charge more than anybody to the people that stood by them in spite of thier bullshiit and hypocrasy.

Terry · 09-11-2007 10:31am

odyssey06 wrote: »

Bono's actions and attitudes are the textbook definition of hypocrisy. He's all for ordinary Irish people to pay higher taxes to help the Third World but not for himself.

What was the first thing he did when the irish government changed the tax laws? He took his money out of the country. That is his right, but if he then turns around and lectures us on how to spend our money and our tax money then he should be slaughtered publicly. I have no respect for anything Bono says on this issue because of this.
We care about what he does with his money because he wants to use our (taxpayers) money for his causes but isn't willing to subject his own money to Irish law.

It would be more defensible if Bono was simply encouraging people as private citizens to donate more, as he could argue that that is what he does.

By trying to get the Irish government to change its policy on debt he is trying to force 'us', that is, the Irish people, to hand over our money. I certainly don't have the option that he does to move millions of euros around the globe as I see fit. I don't have a team of accountants working for me to find every little loophole and tax exemption. Bono is a major shareholder in that company that moved the money, I don't remember him publicly criticising it? I don't remember threatening to sell his shares?

Bono is looking for our money?
Really?

When did we become one of the G8 countries and why wasn't I notified?

If you're going to criticise someone for their charity work, then at least do some research first.

http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/whatwewant/debt.shtml

Edit: Just saw your post, Degsy.
Seriously, what's the problem with going to a U2 gig?
If you don't like them, don't buy a ticket. Nobody is holding a gun to your head.

Why should they do a free gig?

odyssey06 · 09-11-2007 10:49am

Terry wrote: »

Bono is looking for our money?
Really?

Yes.

"At a concert last year in Croke Park, Dublin's biggest stadium, Bono appealed to Prime Minister Bertie Ahern to raise overseas aid to 0.7 percent of gross national product by 2007 from 0.5 percent now. The crowd responded by booing Ahern."

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&refer=home&sid=aef6sR60oDgM

I wonder how much of that 0.2 percent would be gained if we could have taxed Bono's money at 42%? Pity he never gave us the chance. There's a serious offer Bono could have made. I'll vote for my company to stay in Ireland if Bertie votes to increase aid to 0.7 percent. That's what someone genuine, i.e. not a sanctimonious, publicity-seeking, ego-tripping hypocrite, would have done.

Are we really expected to believe that Bono would put pressure on G8 countries but not Ireland to debt abolition programs? Are we really expected to believe that if G8 nations agreed to the plan that Ireland wouldn't come under pressure to adopt it also?

Terry · 09-11-2007 10:57am

odyssey06 wrote: »

Yes.

"At a concert last year in Croke Park, Dublin's biggest stadium, Bono appealed to Prime Minister Bertie Ahern to raise overseas aid to 0.7 percent of gross national product by 2007 from 0.5 percent now. The crowd responded by booing Ahern."

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&refer=home&sid=aef6sR60oDgM

I wonder how much of that 0.2 percent would be gained if we could have taxed Bono's money at 42%? Pity he never gave us the chance. There's a serious offer Bono could have made. I'll vote for my company to stay in Ireland if Bertie votes to increase aid to 0.7 percent. That's what someone genuine, i.e. not a sanctimonious, publicity-seeking, ego-tripping hypocrite, would have done.

Are we really expected to believe that Bono would put pressure on G8 countries but not Ireland to debt abolition programs? Are we really expected to believe that if G8 nations agreed to the plan that Ireland wouldn't come under pressure to adopt it also?

Publicity stunt.

You can't really ask all these world leaders to drop debt without asking the same of the leader of your own country.

Also, so what if Bertie increased aid to those who need it? Is that such a bad thing?

I wonder if some of the Choctaw indians felt the same way in the 1840's.

odyssey06 · 09-11-2007 11:00am

Terry wrote: »

Also, so what if Bertie increased aid to those who need it? Is that such a bad thing?

He seems perfectly happy to lecture us on what our money should be spent on, yet completely unwilling for us to have any say in what his money should be spent on.

The point is that Bono is a total hypocrite for asking for Irish taxpayers to spend money that he, despite being a multi-millionaire, is not.

And that's where we came in...

Terry · 09-11-2007 11:09am

odyssey06 wrote: »

He seems perfectly happy to lecture us on what our money should be spent on, yet completely unwilling for us to have any say in what his money should be spent on.

The point is that Bono is a total hypocrite for asking for Irish taxpayers to spend money that he, despite being a multi-millionaire, is not.

And that's where we came in...

If you had that much money and were about to lose 42% of your earnings, what would you do?

walshb · 09-11-2007 11:17am

eoin_s wrote: »

As much as I to defend the pompous little monkeyman - I believe it was U2's company that was moved to Holland, not just his; he is just a shareholder in it. Bono doesn't lecture the everyday person on donating money, he gets at heads of state etc (no matter how many newspapers and magazines he has to appear in, bless him). Everyone who has a pension fund is avoiding tax.

For gods sake, the government is the EVERY DAY person.
How the hell do we have governments?
Because we the people and all the people have a say.
It's a democracy. So you may not believe that Bono is
directly lecturing us the people on what we should and
should NOT be giving to overseas aid. He's demanding that
uor government, ie the people who directly pay taxes, increase
this....

When will people realise this

:rolleyes:

Degsy · 09-11-2007 11:21am

walshb wrote: »

For gods sake, the government is the EVERY DAY person.
How the hell do we have governments?
Because we the people and all the people have a say.
It's a democracy. So you may not believe that Bono is
directly lecturing us the people on what we should and
should NOT be giving to overseas aid. He's demanding that
uor government, ie the people who directly pay taxes, increase
this....

When will people realise this:rolleyes:

If he's so concerned about "overseas aid" why doesnt he liquidate his vast fortune and go and live in africa and build mud huts or pipe water personally?Because he's toom uch in love with money.He's doing it for purley selfish egomaniacal reasons.If he wants to be a saint he might try living like one..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_of_Assisi

walshb · 09-11-2007 11:27am

Muff_Daddy wrote: »

You make a good point about Bono seemingly not doing anyhing for Ireland, but the rest of your post is full of the typical 'Bono is looking for publicity' attitude of people, and thats who I was refering to in my post. You may believe charity starts at home, fair enough, but you can't just dismiss the fact that he is looking further from home to help people. And yes, he has done good work for charity. If by convincing 1% of the population to help 3rd world countries, that is doing something positive. Do you really believe he hasn't contributed a single penny to charity?

You talk about his 'vast wealth' that he and U2 have accumulated, and you say that he should donate his wealth (I'm positive that he does BTW), and he should stop mooching of us, but I would rebut that by saying 1) Why do you care what he does with his money and 2) He can't force us to hand over money to the poor, it's a choice an individual makes, so how is he 'robbing' us? If you don't like him, simply ignore him.

TBH, I've had a few jars, so I don't know how much sense the above made.

That's great isn't it
Ignore him?

Hello, he's the man demanding thaT the governemnet I had a part in electing
increases my hard earned money for Africa and Asia etc etc...

I don't care less what Bono does with his money, but I do fuc****
care what he does with mine. That's the y problem.

Bono is a marvelous man throwing around other
peoples money, but what about his money. Is there people
throwing his money around??

No there is NOT.

And No I do not believe for a second that Bono is donating proportinate
amounts of his wealth to charity. It has neve been revealed or even mentioned
by the man and if he wants to put himself out
there so arrogantly and publicly, then tell us, like he is telling
our government, how much exactly he donates. I believe it's
close on nothing

walshb · 09-11-2007 11:29am

Degsy wrote: »

If he's so concerned about "overseas aid" why doesnt he liquidate his vast fortune and go and live in africa and build mud huts or pipe water personally?Because he's toom uch in love with money.He's doing it for purley selfish egomaniacal reasons.If he wants to be a saint he might try living like one..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_of_Assisi

Agreed Degsy

Terry · 09-11-2007 11:39am

http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/2006/05/04/cx_me_0505featslide.html

Bono
Charity: Debt AIDS Trade Africa (DATA)

U2's frontman has campaigned so widely and vehemently against the spread of AIDS and for debt relief in Africa that in February he was among the 191 nominees for the Nobel Peace Prize. But his philanthropic efforts don't start or end with DATA, the organization he co-founded in 2002. He has participated in fundraising concerts including Live 8, Live Aid and Band Aid 20. In 2003, U2 donated €40,000 to One in Four Ireland, a charity that helps survivors of sexual abuse.

That's probably not enough though.

Degsy · 09-11-2007 11:45am

Terry wrote: »

http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/2006/05/04/cx_me_0505featslide.html

That's probably not enough though.

40 grand?It wouldnt even be a fraction of the interest on thier earnings for a week.To the average working stiff it'd be akin to a donation of 50 cent and i'm not going to brag about donating that much.

Ciaran500 · 09-11-2007 11:50am

Degsy wrote: »

If he's so concerned about "overseas aid" why doesnt he liquidate his vast fortune and go and live in africa and build mud huts or pipe water personally?Because he's toom uch in love with money.He's doing it for purley selfish egomaniacal reasons.If he wants to be a saint he might try living like one..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_of_Assisi

Typical ballox irish attitude as this thread was started about. He gives money away and campaignes to get rid of world debt. But he still has money so he obviously isn't doing enough. :rolleyes:

Degsy · 09-11-2007 11:58am

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Typical ballox irish attitude as this thread was started about. He gives money away and campaignes to get rid of world debt. But he still has money so he obviously isn't doing enough. :rolleyes:

Correct,he isnt doing enough.He's telling people what to do with thier money whilst sitting tight on his own vast fortune and at the same time bending over backwards to avoid paying taxes.Maybe if he came into the tax net the irish government could afford give some away to what he sees to be worthy causes.

Terry · 09-11-2007 12:00pm

Degsy wrote: »

40 grand?It wouldnt even be a fraction of the interest on thier earnings for a week.To the average working stiff it'd be akin to a donation of 50 cent and i'm not going to brag about donating that much.

Do you honestly think that is the extent of the charitable donations?

Just because they don't brag about it, doesn't mean they don't money give to charities.

Ciaran500 wrote:

Typical ballox irish attitude as this thread was started about. He gives money away and campaignes to get rid of world debt. But he still has money so he obviously isn't doing enough. :rolleyes:

Of course.
People see the name "Bono" and instantly see red.
How dare an Irish person make lots of money. The cheek of them.

Degsy wrote:

Correct,he isnt doing enough.He's telling people what to do with thier money whilst sitting tight on his own vast fortune and at the same time bending over backwards to avoid paying taxes.Maybe if he came into the tax net the irish government could afford give some away to what he sees to be worthy causes.

How do you know how much he gives to charity?

odyssey06 · 09-11-2007 12:16pm

Terry wrote: »

If you had that much money and were about to lose 42% of your earnings, what would you do?

I would either
(a) Move the money and keep quiet on lecturing Irish people and politicians, except perhaps to complain about high tax rates that have forced me out or
(b) Keep the money and explain to the Irish people why I didn't move it and what I think politicians should be doing with *our* tax money

I would not do
(c) Move the money and lecture hard working Irish taxpayers on what I want to do with their money

You move your money out of the country your forego the privilege of saying how tax money should be spent.

Terry · 09-11-2007 12:20pm

When did Bono lecture any Irish person on how their tax money should be spent?

walshb · 09-11-2007 12:57pm

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Typical ballox irish attitude as this thread was started about. He gives money away and campaignes to get rid of world debt. But he still has money so he obviously isn't doing enough. :rolleyes:

No, he gives other peoples money away.
There's a difference...

He's lecturing and urging the Irish government to
give more of our money away, not HIS, that's the y
problem....

He does NOT lecture a single Irish person.
He lectures every single Irish person
when he demands from our government
that we should be increasing our overseas aid.
Why can't anyone apart from a few, see this...

Degsy · 09-11-2007 1:05pm

Terry wrote: »

Do you honestly think that is the extent of the charitable donations?

Just because they don't brag about it, doesn't mean they don't money give to charities.

Of course.
People see the name "Bono" and instantly see red.
How dare an Irish person make lots of money. The cheek of them.

How do you know how much he gives to charity?

I couldnt care less how much he gives to charity,i just want him to shut up telling other people what to do with thier money.But since you ask,would it not be leaked to the media if Bono gave X-amount of money to such-and-such a charity?Would he not be bigging it up himself?
I suppose what i'm trying to say is that as a tax exile he wants the government to spend my tax money on overseas causes,raising our taxes if necessary to pay for it,while he pays nothing,is incredibly wealthy and is an arrogant,pompous,attention-seeking little hypocrite to boot.

thefinalstage · 09-11-2007 1:12pm

The-Rigger wrote: »

Ah look, you are talking nonsense, I've made my feelings known on the tax bullsh1t, so if you want to know what I think, read up.

Enlighten me.

How much tax do you pay that you are not due?
Not a fúcking red cent, nor should you, nor should he.

He pays every single cent he is due. He didn't write the tax laws.

He certainly wrote the book on avoiding it.

WoW! How quickly we forget? Where would we be without the massive leg up we have gotten over the past decade from the European Union?
We'd wouldn't be near where we are.
Every Tom, Dick and Harry wouldn't be driving new/ish cars and pondering what investment property to spend their SSIA on.

But we got lots of funding and help, and now we are prosperous, so let's shut up shop, whatever we do let's not try and help anyone else out, that would cost us our money.

Since when we were donating all our tax revenue anyhow? I must of missed the most recent budget.

Unless you have forgotten the EU is essentially one big country, thats the idea behind a union. Is Africa part of this country?

Terry · 09-11-2007 1:33pm

Degsy wrote: »

I couldnt care less how much he gives to charity,i just want him to shut up telling other people what to do with thier money.But since you ask,would it not be leaked to the media if Bono gave X-amount of money to such-and-such a charity?Would he not be bigging it up himself?
I suppose what i'm trying to say is that as a tax exile he wants the government to spend my tax money on overseas causes,raising our taxes if necessary to pay for it,while he pays nothing,is incredibly wealthy and is an arrogant,pompous,attention-seeking little hypocrite to boot.

You're completely missing the point again.

He asked the G8 leaders to drop the debt owed to them by third world countries.
We are not one of the G8 countries.

Do you honestly think that Bertie was going to listen to him, just because he said it at a gig?

Just admit you begrudge hs success and be done with it.

Degsy · 09-11-2007 1:42pm

Terry wrote: »

He asked the G8 leaders to drop the debt owed to them by third world

Do you honestly think that Bertie was going to listen to him, just because he said it at a gig?

Its not his place to ask world leaders to do anything.He's a protestant who pretends to be from ballymun who writes nonsensical songs and pretends they're about relevant issues of the day,he roots around in political situations that dont concern him and inflicts it on his fans who've come to hear the music.A friend of mine told me they spent close to 200 quid on a ticket to see U2 the band and instead got an hour and a half of him spouting pseudo-political drivel.If he's a musician,stick to being one and shut up or if he wants to be a politician,run for office and start paying taxes.

odyssey06 · 09-11-2007 1:46pm

I think Terry that you are incapable of accepting the facts. You asked us when Bono had lectured the Irish government to spend Irish taxpayers money. We established that this has occured at least once, in front of 70,000 witnesses.

Now you are shifting the ground to just G8 debt recovery? How does that change his hypocrisy? It doesn't. It actually makes it worse. What right does he have to lecture G8 leaders on what to do with their money when he isn't a citizen of those nations, and doesn't pay tax in a G8 state?

How does Bono imagine Ireland and the G8 nations are going to pay for this debt write-off, and increased aid except in tax? The tax that he refuses to pay in Ireland, and refuses to pay in a G8 nation. He seems to think tax is something only the hoi polloi pay. So Bono's message is do as I say not as I do, and what better indictment of his hypocrisy is there?

In comparison, Enya has made a fortune in her career. Personally I'm not a fan of her music, I am a fan of U2's, but I say fair play to her. No begrudgery there. She doesn't lecture us on how to spend public money that she refuses to contribute to.

walshb · 09-11-2007 2:03pm

Terry wrote: »

You're completely missing the point again.

He asked the G8 leaders to drop the debt owed to them by third world countries.
We are not one of the G8 countries.

Do you honestly think that Bertie was going to listen to him, just because he said it at a gig?

Just admit you begrudge hs success and be done with it.

Yes Bertie and the likes of Bertie have listened to him and Geldof and GOAL and Concern retc etc etc. We are continually increasing aid year in year out. That's why people like me have a problem.

That's why it is so annoying.

Bono and those I mentioned are spending everybody's money, but their own.
They are throwing money around like confetti, our damn money, the taxpayer....the majority of whom earn a damn sight less than the Bono's and Geldof's of this world.......

Bono, whether you like it or not is having an enormous impact on what our hard earned money is spent on. Government figures prove this....

Jesus Wept · 09-11-2007 2:05pm

Do any of you run a business?
Do you send extra taxes, Christmas bonuses and love letters to the revenue?

You would swear Bono was evading tax.

There is a world of difference between evading tax and avoiding tax, and if you aren't avoiding it, then you are a clown, and your business is suffering.

And do any of you honestly think that €40k is the extend of Bono's personal contribution to charities?
There aren't enough cat pictures on the internet for you if you do.

Terry · 09-11-2007 2:08pm

Degsy wrote: »

Its not his place to ask world leaders to do anything.He's a protestant who pretends to be from ballymun who writes nonsensical songs and pretends they're about relevant issues of the day,he roots around in political situations that dont concern him and inflicts it on his fans who've come to hear the music.A friend of mine told me they spent close to 200 quid on a ticket to see U2 the band and instead got an hour and a half of him spouting pseudo-political drivel.If he's a musician,stick to being one and shut up or if he wants to be a politician,run for office and start paying taxes.

Why is it not his place?
He is a well known person and has a bit of sway when it comes to these things.
Why shouldn't he use his influence to help others?
As for spending 200 quid on a ticket, well they shouldn't really be buying from touts.
Mine only cost €75.

What really struck me about your post though was this little nugget:

He's a protestant

What has that got to do wth anything?
You just destroyed any credibility you had left with that comment.

odyssey06 wrote: »

I think Terry that you are incapable of accepting the facts. You asked us when Bono had lectured the Irish government to spend Irish taxpayers money. We established that this has occured at least once, in front of 70,000 witnesses.

I was there. I even bought the T-shirt.
It was a couple of minutes out of a 2 hour show ffs.
I think you are blowing thing way out of proportion here.

Now you are shifting the ground to just G8 debt recovery? How does that change his hypocrisy? It doesn't. It actually makes it worse. What right does he have to lecture G8 leaders on what to do with their money when he isn't a citizen of those nations, and doesn't pay tax in a G8 state?

He doesn't have any right.
Then again, he's not telling them to do anything.
He asking them.
There is a big difference there.

Let's not allow facts get in the way of a good rant about Bono though.

How does Bono imagine Ireland and the G8 nations are going to pay for this debt write-off, and increased aid except in tax? The tax that he refuses to pay in Ireland, and refuses to pay in a G8 nation. He seems to think tax is something only the hoi polloi pay. So Bono's message is do as I say not as I do, and what better indictment of his hypocrisy is there?

Would you miss 1 cent out of your salary?

I'll ask you this:
Why shouldn't the worlds largest economies help the people of a continent whose resources they raped for centuries?

In comparison, Enya has made a fortune in her career. Personally I'm not a fan of her music, I am a fan of U2's, but I say fair play to her. No begrudgery there. She doesn't lecture us on how to spend public money that she refuses to contribute to.

Fair play to Enya.

odyssey06 · 09-11-2007 2:08pm

Yes Bertie and the likes of Bertie have listened to him and Geldof and GOAL and Concern retc etc etc. We are continually increasing aid year in year out. That's why people like me have a problem.

That's exactly right. I've no problem with charities doing charitable work, or people donating money to charity, it's when charities or people's donations become fronts for political lobbies that we have to be criticical.

I find it morally questionable for a charity to focus on how taxpayer's money should be spent, instead of raising its own money from private citizens and companies volunatrily to spend as it sees fit - but at least you can't accuse Concern or GOAL of hypocrisy in that regard, as they aren't sitting on hundreds of millions of euros.

walshb · 09-11-2007 2:13pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

That's exactly right. I've no problem with charities doing charitable work, or people donating money to charity, it's when charities or people's donations become fronts for political lobbies that we have to be criticical.

I find it morally questionable for a charity to focus on how taxpayer's money should be spent, instead of raising its own money from private citizens and companies volunatrily to spend as it sees fit - but at least you can't accuse Concern or GOAL of hypocrisy in that regard, as they aren't sitting on hundreds of millions of euros.

GOAL and Concern are IMO just another business making money out of poverty.......

JOS of GOAL didn't have an ounce of time for the down and outs in the Simom community. He actually said this on the Late Late show a few wekks ago. He couldn't tolerate them. His own people:rolleyes:, yet he's off saving Darfur and Calcutta etc etc....

Red Hand · 09-11-2007 2:17pm

walshb wrote: »

JOS of GOAL didn't have an ounce of time for the down and outs in the Simom community. He actually said this on the Late Late show a few wekks ago. He couldn't tolerate them. His own people:rolleyes:, yet he's off saving Darfur and Calcutta etc etc....

Did he say that? I thought he was saying that he couldn't tolerate all the needless admin and waste in other charities and set up GOAL so that the maximum amount of money could reach the people they wanted to help.

walshb · 09-11-2007 2:22pm

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

Did he say that? I thought he was saying that he couldn't tolerate all the needless admin and waste in other charities and set up GOAL so that the maximum amount of money could reach the people they wanted to help.

No he couldn't tolerate NOT being the big chief and not getting his way.
That is exactly what I interpreted, as well as him not having
time for the actual people in need....

So if he had a problem, why NOT set up a charity and help the people from Simon through HIS charity, without the admin and red tape...

No No, he wanted the big world stage, where he'd be noticed....

Red Hand · 09-11-2007 2:25pm

You sound a bit bitter towards him.

walshb · 09-11-2007 2:30pm

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

You sound a bit bitter towards him.

Absolutely not. I have nothing to be bitter about.
Skeptical and extremely so is more accurate

Latchy · 09-11-2007 2:30pm

KIVES wrote: »

Similar to the last generation in Ireland who had no problems giving money in the Church Gate collection to the stricken people of 'Biafra' or to that common cliche - 'the poor black babies...' yet it's a different matter when the 'poor black baby' is now next door -

Absolutley , i recall a relitive of mine who decided to become a jehovahs witness and was forever quoting to me from the bible about how all the races on earth can live in Harmony in a very irritating way (i think it was catholic guilt ) .anyhows i bumped into him several years ago and his religious rant had gone and was replaced by ''. those flippng immigrants, coming over here and taking all the jobs ,house's etc'' , .The irony was lost on him .

it's all relative but I stand accused of giving money to Amnesty to fight causes of social injustice and the like in Central America yet finding it hard to throw a homeless man 50 cent on our own streets - I could be wrong but we tend to be more cynical when it comes to our own destitute

I remember back in the 80s working for a charity in dublin and the whole idea was to sell 100 tickets for a pound a ticket , to raise money to build a snooker hall for some part of inner city dublin.About 70 of us went from door to door and after a day collecting and reaching our total of £100, were each given £18 each for our help, the rest going to the charity .Only thing we learned later it didn't , it went into the team leaders pocket. (who mysteriously dissapeared ). Money for nothing , fools (us) everywere and behind every charity is somebody making a nice tidy or in some cases , a very large sum .I know most charitys are doing good but there are a lot like the one mentioned above out there to .

odyssey06 · 09-11-2007 2:42pm

latchyco wrote: »

Only thing we learned later it didn't , it went into the team leaders pocket. (who mysteriously dissapeared ). Money for nothing , fools (us) everywere and behind every charity is somebody making a nice tidy or in some cases , a very large sum .I know most charitys are doing good but there are a lot like the one mentioned above out there to .

The sad thing is that if you multiply the figures by 1 million, change the name 'team leader' to 'president\dictator' and 'snooker hall' to 'hospital\airport' you pretty much describe the situation with the billions given in foreign aid to many Third World regimes.

In fairness to GOAL, I think as much as possible they try to support the people directly rather than putting the money into the hands of corrupt officials.

TheThing! · 09-11-2007 3:12pm

The fact is that most people only do charity work to make themselves feel good. There is no such thing as a completely selfless action. So it is okay to hate charity do gooders

Degsy · 09-11-2007 3:20pm

Terry wrote: »

Why is it not his place?

What really struck me about your post though was this little nugget:

What has that got to do wth anything?
You just destroyed any credibility you had left with that comment.

Out of context it means little BUT..what i said was "he's a protestant who pretends to come from ballymun".What i also said was he writes nonsensical songs that he pretends are about the troubles.He usually introduces Sunday Bloody Sunday with "there's been a lot of talk about this song,maybe too much talk,this song is not a rebel song..".Now,he's actaully covering his arse quiet well in saying its nota rebel song,but why does he need to mention the words "rebel" in the same breath as "bloody sunday"?Because he's a fake.There was a big nationalist movement in the 1980's and he wanted to pretend that his band were the voice of that dissafected,working-class youth.He pretends to be from the mean streets of ballymun centarl whereas in fact he was born in a big house (in a protestant enclave) around the corner.So then he was pretending to spout a nationalist perspective(which he wasnt,it was all to sell records),and now he's peddling some eco/humanist bollocks to try and sell MORE records.He's a fake and a hypocrite.

Terry · 09-11-2007 3:29pm

Again, what has him being a Protestant got to do with anything?

As for the big house, I've was out that way one night. A friend works with a guy who lives there and it's just another average housing estate. Nothing big or special about it.

Also, he hasn't used the "This is not a rebel song" line for many, many years now.

As for going for the nationalist audience, I don't think the IRA saw it that way. Why else would he have recieved a death threat from them?

Degsy · 09-11-2007 3:40pm

Terry wrote: »

Again, what has him being a Protestant got to do with anything?

As for the big house, I've was out that way one night. A friend works with a guy who lives there and it's just another average housing estate. Nothing big or special about it.

Also, he hasn't used the "This is not a rebel song" line for many, many years now.

As for going for the nationalist audience, I don't think the IRA saw it that way. Why else would he have recieved a death threat from them?

Because he deliberatly hid the fact during a sensitive time

Because its no longer trendy to be nationalist

The houses there are a good bit bigger than average and a sight bigger than the flats in ballymun.

Why would the IRA bother threatening him?Dont believe a word of it,if they wanted him dead,he'd be dead.

Terry · 09-11-2007 3:46pm

Degsy wrote: »

Because he deliberatly hid the fact during a sensitive time

Because its no longer trendy to be nationalist

The houses there are a good bit bigger than average and a sight bigger than the flats in ballymun.

Why would the IRA bother threatening him?Dont believe a word of it,if they wanted him dead,he'd be dead.

It was something he said after the Enniskillen bombing.

He was in America at the time and there was a threat made. I think those higher up put a stop to anything being done though.

I'll look for a link later.
It was in 1987, so it's not going to be easy to find.

He actually had a go at the IRA twice that week.
Once during an impromptu gig in San Francisco and then the following night in Denver (I think).
Some guy at the SF gig had a flag with Sinn Fein and U2 written on it. Bono had a go at the guy and declared U2 had nothing to do with Sinn Fein.
Again, hardly the words of someone trying to gain a nationalist audience.

You're grasping at straws here, Degsy.

Degsy · 09-11-2007 3:50pm

Terry wrote: »

It was something he said after the Enniskillen bombing.

He was in America at the time and there was a threat made. I think those higher up put a stop to anything being done though.

I'll look for a link later.
It was in 1987, so it's not going to be easy to find.

He actually had a go at the IRA twice that week.
Once during an impromptu gig in San Francisco and then the following night in Denver (I think).
Some guy at the SF gig had a flag with Sinn Fein and U2 written on it. Bono had a go at the guy and declared U2 had nothing to do with Sinn Fein.
Again, hardly the words of someone trying to gain a nationalist audience.

You're grasping at straws here, Degsy.

Ah,so he was talking out of both sides of his mouth.Sounds about right.

vorbis · 09-11-2007 3:59pm

TheThing! wrote: »

The fact is that most people only do charity work to make themselves feel good. There is no such thing as a completely selfless action. So it is okay to hate charity do gooders

thanks theThing for articulating the begrudging attitude in only a few lines!
There is nothing wrong with doing charity work to make yourself feel good.

WlashB, I have never seen someone get so bitter about charity donations! The irish governemnt has wasted far more money on public infrastructure project overruns than it will ever spend on charity. Your bitterness towards John O Shea is frankly bizarre. Did he run over your pet cat??

Degsy, complaining about Bono being a protestant is bigoted. He lives in a big house, wow! Lets go hang Bono.

Imo, seeing Bono as anything other than a world famous musician who's asking world leaders to cancel third world debts is your own problem.

-Leelo- · 09-11-2007 4:03pm

Hmmm I think this turning into a who hates / loves Bono the most thread.

Anyways, back to the point, I dont hate people who do charity work, if thats how they wish to spend their time / money, that's fair enough but what I do hate is those ones on O' Connell Street in their Day-Glo bibs trying to make you feel guilty for shopping.
Example - was out shopping for an outfit one day as I was graduating from school that night when one of them stops me and proceeds to ask me what I'd bought, and I, like the big fecking eejit I was, told him it was a dress for my graduation, and he then asks me how much I paid for it, which I thought was a bit cheeky but told him anyway, and he went on to inform me that what I paid for my dress could have fed X amount of African children for a certain period. The cheek, fair enough if these people want to work for charity but how dare they begrudge us stuff we've worked bloody hard to get.

walshb · 09-11-2007 4:10pm

vorbis wrote: »

thanks theThing for articulating the begrudging attitude in only a few lines!
There is nothing wrong with doing charity work to make yourself feel good.

WlashB, I have never seen someone get so bitter about charity donations! The irish governemnt has wasted far more money on public infrastructure project overruns than it will ever spend on charity. Your bitterness towards John O Shea is frankly bizarre. Did he run over your pet cat??

Degsy, complaining about Bono being a protestant is bigoted. He lives in a big house, wow! Lets go hang Bono.

Imo, seeing Bono as anything other than a world famous musician who's asking world leaders to cancel third world debts is your own problem.

You obviously didn't read my post. I am not bitter, just skeptical and I explained
why. I personally believe that the vast majority of these overseas charities are not genuine
and are no more than a business and poverty is big business......

He had NO time for his own people...that says it all and he said so himself on the Late Late

Degsy · 09-11-2007 4:11pm

-Leelo- wrote: »

Hmmm I think this turning into a who hates / loves Bono the most thread.

Anyways, back to the point, I dont hate people who do charity work, if thats how they wish to spend their time / money, that's fair enough but what I do hate is those ones on O' Connell Street in their Day-Glo bibs trying to make you feel guilty for shopping.
Example - was out shopping for an outfit one day as I was graduating from school that night when one of them stops me and proceeds to ask me what I'd bought, and I, like the big fecking eejit I was, told him it was a dress for my graduation, and he then asks me how much I paid for it, which I thought was a bit cheeky but told him anyway, and he went on to inform me that what I paid for my dress could have fed X amount of African children for a certain period. The cheek, fair enough if these people want to work for charity but how dare they begrudge us stuff we've worked bloody hard to get.

`

That reminds me of during the original Live Aid concert,Bob Geldof was telling people not to go down the pub but to stay in and give all the money they would have "wasted" to the appeal.Why?Why,should somebody who has maybe worked the last 40 hours in some poxy job give up the one thing they had to look forward to because he said so?He was friends with all the musicians taking part,the criteria for selecting the acts was(i think) ten million album sales.Why didnt he ask each of the bands for a million quid instead of bullying cash out of ther average working stiff?Its worth noting that he attained multimillionaire staus not long after he did Live Aid and the project itself didnt do a damn thing to end world hunger.

The begrudger attitude towards charity / charitable work

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