Accompanied driving rules & penalties for noncompliance

Alanstrainor · 23-06-2008 5:17pm

Yes you can accompany her until the 30th of June. After which she will need to be accompanied by a fully licensed driver who has held their license for 2 years or more.

Stark · 23-06-2008 5:18pm

His girlfriend's on a provisional though, which I think is still subject to the old rules.

Alanstrainor · 23-06-2008 5:29pm

Stark wrote: »

His girlfriend's on a provisional though, which I think is still subject to the old rules.

correct, i realised my mistake straight after posting my response. I'm too used to people being on Learner Permits!

wil · 23-06-2008 8:36pm

Alanstrainor wrote: »

correct, i realised my mistake straight after posting my response. I'm too used to people being on Learner Permits!

I think you were right the first time.

Again according to the RSA

"Summary of changes as it applies to learner permit holders (the changes
also apply to persons holding a provisional licence). All provisional

licences are now considered to be learner permit"

My understanding of that is there will be no legal difference between permit and provisional after June and the same rules apply to all drivers without full licence.
I recall when the same rule was introduced in the UK many years ago and accompanying drivers one day could no longer be the next day. People still coped.

Alanstrainor · 23-06-2008 9:09pm

wil wrote: »

I think you were right the first time.

Again according to the RSA

"Summary of changes as it applies to learner permit holders (the changes
also apply to persons holding a provisional licence). All provisional
licences are now considered to be learner permit"

My understanding of that is there will be no legal difference between permit and provisional after June and the same rules apply to all drivers without full licence.
I recall when the same rule was introduced in the UK many years ago and accompanying drivers one day could no longer be the next day. People still coped.

No, that document applies after the 30th of June deadline. So up until the 30th of June if you have a provisional license you are bound by the old rules regarding fully licensed drivers.

wil · 23-06-2008 10:19pm

Alanstrainor wrote: »

No, that document applies after the 30th of June deadline. So up until the 30th of June if you have a provisional license you are bound by the old rules regarding fully licensed drivers.

Exactly as you said before you contradicted yourself, and as I confirmed with this RSA quote. (admittedly the RSA "now" is a post jun30th "now" from the future, but the rest of my post made that clear.)
Too many late nights?:)

Alanstrainor · 23-06-2008 11:51pm

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Yes you can accompany her until the 30th of June. After which she will need to be accompanied by a fully licensed driver who has held their license for 2 years or more.

Alanstrainor wrote: »

No, that document applies after the 30th of June deadline. So up until the 30th of June if you have a provisional license you are bound by the old rules regarding fully licensed drivers.

wil wrote: »

Exactly as you said before you contradicted yourself, and as I confirmed with this RSA quote. (admittedly the RSA "now" is a post jun30th "now" from the future, but the rest of my post made that clear.)
Too many late nights?:)

Eh? there was no contradiction?

EDIT: Incase you didn't realise, my first post was edited about 30 seconds after posting, as i had thought emmet02's girlfriend was on a learner permit. So, my post that reads "Yes you can accompany her until the 30th of June. After which she will need to be accompanied by a fully licensed driver who has held their license for 2 years or more." Was the corrected post.

wil · 24-06-2008 1:01am

Apologies.
My brain wasnt up to the grammar intricacies of the past imperfect postedited tense.:)

Anyway to summarise/clarify

After June, all learners (regardless of permit/provisional) must be accompanied by a suitably qualified driver and must display L-plates.

Wishbone Ash · 24-06-2008 9:32pm

wil wrote: »

Anyway to summarise/clarify

After June, all learners (regardless of permit/provisional) must be accompanied by a suitably qualified driver

Except those Provisional Licence / Learner Permit holders in categories A, A1, M, and W!

DRice · 02-07-2008 3:19am

If I fail my test can I reapply immediately or is there some horrifying 6 month waiting period?

Wishbone Ash · 02-07-2008 7:09am

DRice wrote: »

If I fail my test can I reapply immediately or is there some horrifying 6 month waiting period?

Yes, you may apply immediately. The 6 months wait applies to the the initial test for those on a 1st Learner Permit in some categories.

BlackCat2008 · 02-07-2008 5:11pm

I have read all of the forum but legal jargon is not my strong point. Is it definitely only a fine If U are caught unaccompanied with or with out L plates and if you have other people in the car (kids etc.) I was under the impression they could take the license of you for two years. I don't care to brake the law but I am waiting for a test along time and won't even get it till August or sept. I sent in a letter from work. It's nearly a month now and still no date and yes I have been on and on at them.

Also my uncle said he heard on the radio if you have an accident unaccompanied you are still covered by your insurance and that the police are not going to crack down on us as they don't understand the rules them self.

Can anyone clear this up for me I have no choose but to work and have to have the car to do it.

Wishbone Ash · 02-07-2008 5:43pm

BlackCat2008 wrote: »

Is it definitely only a fine If U are caught unaccompanied with or with out L plates and if you have other people in the car (kids etc.)

It would be at the discretion of the Garda in question as to whether to pursue it or not.

It is irrelevant whether there are passengers in the car or not.

BlackCat2008 wrote:

I was under the impression they could take the license of you

AFAIK that particular route is open for repeat offenders.

BlackCat2008 wrote:

I don't care to brake the law

That's not a great attitude to have. It's a slap in the face to those who obey the regulations.

Blackcat2008 wrote:

Also my uncle said he heard on the radio if you have an accident unaccompanied you are still covered by your insurance

Your insurer is obliged to cover for any 3rd party claims that may arise but they also reserve the right to pursue a motorist for their costs if they know that the motorist in question was driving beyond the terms of their licence.

BlackCat2008 wrote:

the police are not going to crack down on us as they don't understand the rules them self.

I fail to see how you think that they would have difficulty understanding that most Provisional Licence/Learner Permit holders are required to be accompanied!

BlackCat2008 · 02-07-2008 7:18pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

It would be at the discretion of the Garda in question as to whether to pursue it or not.

It is irrelevant whether there are passengers in the car or not.

AFAIK that particular route is open for repeat offenders.

Thank you for replying to me.I think I need l to clear up a misunderstanding I didn't mean I don't care for the law I meant I don't want to have to brake the law. I am stuck in a bad position financially and domed if I do domed if I don't I could even lose my job. I don't now whats taking them so long to test me. I have to have the car for emergencies aswell (elderly grand mother sick Kids and animals I'm just trying to way up the risks.) I have absolutely no one to accompany me in the car and would not have taken on the job I have if I know this was going to happen.I've been driving for three years with out accidents or points.

Can anyone tell me if they got a test very quickly and who with ?

Wishbone Ash · 02-07-2008 7:47pm

BlackCat2008 wrote: »

I think I need l to clear up a misunderstanding I didn't mean I don't care for the law I meant I don't want to have to brake the law

Apologies - I thought you were saying that you didn't care if you broke the law.

BlackCat2008 wrote:

would not have taken on the job I have if I know this was going to happen

Didn't you apply as soon as the announcement was made last October?

Inform the RSA that you are willing to be tested at very short notice.

Mellor · 03-07-2008 11:36pm

I passed my test last month (first time

)
I haven't yet applied for the licence, I know that legally I am still a provisional driver and will have to get the full soon.

Will the fact that the deadline has passed have any impact the full licence that i'll recieve

Duckjob · 03-07-2008 11:44pm

Mellor wrote: »

I passed my test last month (first time )
I haven't yet applied for the licence, I know that legally I am still a provisional driver and will have to get the full soon.

Will the fact that the deadline has passed have any impact the full licence that i'll recieve

I'm open to correction from other posters but as I understand it the Certificate of Competancy you would have received on passing your test effectively grants you 'Full Licence' priveleges until you receive your actual Full Licence , so any Provisional or Learner Permit deadline rules would not apply to you anymore.

Also, AFAIK the only thing that effects the type of Full Licence you receive is whether you passed your test in a manual or automatic. If it was an automatic then you are only licenced to drive automatics.

Alanstrainor · 04-07-2008 1:05am

Duckjob wrote: »

I'm open to correction from other posters but as I understand it the Certificate of Competancy you would have received on passing your test effectively grants you 'Full Licence' priveleges until you receive your actual Full Licence , so any Provisional or Learner Permit deadline rules would not apply to you anymore.

Well there is a bit of a debate over that on this forum. I hope to receive a reply to a letter sent to the rsa regarding this topic shortly. From what i have heard from WA, your cert does not grant you full license rights, it's only when you receive your receipt from the motor tax office, then you can drive. Hopefully i'll receive a letter conforming this in the next couple of days.

Red Alert · 04-07-2008 8:44am

I believe you're not allowed drive on a motorway or outside Ireland until you have the full license itself.

Mellor · 04-07-2008 9:18am

Duckjob wrote: »

I'm open to correction from other posters but as I understand it the Certificate of Competancy you would have received on passing your test effectively grants you 'Full Licence' priveleges until you receive your actual Full Licence , so any Provisional or Learner Permit deadline rules would not apply to you anymore.

Also, AFAIK the only thing that effects the type of Full Licence you receive is whether you passed your test in a manual or automatic. If it was an automatic then you are only licenced to drive automatics.

I can't say for sure, but I was told that the cert does not allow you to drive, I was told this by the tester. He adviced me to apply sooner, the reciept however can be used

Alanstrainor · 04-07-2008 10:44am

Red Alert wrote: »

I believe you're not allowed drive on a motorway or outside Ireland until you have the full license itself.

Yes, there is no doubt over this aspect. You must have your license in your hand to drive on a motorway/outside Ireland

Alanstrainor · 22-07-2008 9:03am

Duckjob wrote: »

I'm open to correction from other posters but as I understand it the Certificate of Competancy you would have received on passing your test effectively grants you 'Full Licence' priveleges until you receive your actual Full Licence , so any Provisional or Learner Permit deadline rules would not apply to you anymore.

Also, AFAIK the only thing that effects the type of Full Licence you receive is whether you passed your test in a manual or automatic. If it was an automatic then you are only licenced to drive automatics.

Okay, so i finally got a response from the RSA regarding this issue. The question asked was

Q.
Does the Certificate of competancy entitle you to drive unaccompanied?

A.
Dear Alan,

I refer to your query regarding the a certificate of competency.

A person driving while they hold a certificate of competency must be accompanied by a qualified driver. When they have this certificate exchanged for a full driving licence they do not need to be accompanied.

Regards,

Duckjob · 22-07-2008 2:55pm

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Okay, so i finally got a response from the RSA regarding this issue. The question asked was

Q.
Does the Certificate of competancy entitle you to drive unaccompanied?

A.
Dear Alan,

I refer to your query regarding the a certificate of competency.

A person driving while they hold a certificate of competency must be accompanied by a qualified driver. When they have this certificate exchanged for a full driving licence they do not need to be accompanied.

Interesting. Thanks for posting the reply. I wonder did that change only come in with the learner permit rules? I'm pretty sure when I passed my test I was told by my instructor it was essentially a full licence except for:

- The cert wasn't recognised outside of the Rep of Ireland
and
- it would expire in 2 years so you should apply for the licence ASAP.

That is going back 13-14 yrs mind you...

Alanstrainor · 22-07-2008 4:16pm

Duckjob wrote: »

Interesting. Thanks for posting the reply. I wonder did that change only come in with the learner permit rules? I'm pretty sure when I passed my test I was told by my instructor it was essentially a full licence except for:

- The cert wasn't recognised outside of the Rep of Ireland
and
- it would expire in 2 years so you should apply for the licence ASAP.

That is going back 13-14 yrs mind you...

I was told the same thing when i passed, but i think it's a bit of a grey area for examiners and instructors alike. Well there you have it, plain and simple.

wil · 24-07-2008 12:36am

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I was told the same thing when i passed, but i think it's a bit of a grey area for examiners and instructors alike. Well there you have it, plain and simple.

Good to get clarification.
I guess it makes sense, the legal document is the licence, not the cert or receipt.
Much like you wouldnt be allowed to travel on a passport receipt.

As for the gardai, I'd imagine most of them would probably treat it like a forgotten licence and ask you to produce it at a station within 10 days.

Q1. Do you retain the same licence number as on the permit?

Q2. Are points carried across from permit to full licence? (I presume they do)

Wishbone Ash · 24-07-2008 4:52pm

wil wrote: »

As for the gardai, I'd imagine most of them would probably treat it like a forgotten licence and ask you to produce it at a station within 10 days.

When you 'produce' the licence would be checked to ensure it was valid for the day in question (i.e. the day of the checkpoint/accident etc.). However, I doubt very much that they would pursue the matter.

wil wrote:

Q1. Do you retain the same licence number as on the permit?

Yes. I have had the same licence number in all the provisionals/full licences that I have held.

wil wrote:

Q2. Are points carried across from permit to full licence? (I presume they do)

Presumably so.

Ace2007 · 17-08-2008 2:27am

Quick question.

if one passed their test in feb 2008 - does that mean that one could not teach a learner to drive?

and what would happen from an insurance point of view, say for example a leaner driver crashes and has a person like above with her in the car - would the insurance pay or say u broke the law of the road - and get off from paying?

Wishbone Ash · 17-08-2008 1:27pm

Ace2007 wrote: »

if one passed their test in feb 2008 - does that mean that one could not teach a learner to drive?

One may not act as an accompanied driver but there is nothing to stop one from teaching someone to drive (although that really should be left to proper instructors).

Ace2007 wrote:

for example a leaner driver crashes and has a person like above with her in the car - would the insurance pay or say u broke the law of the road - and get off from paying?

The insurance company would still be legally obliged to cover any third party claims but they could possibly pursue the driver to recoup their costs.

ec18 · 17-08-2008 2:11pm

Is there any penalty points if you are caught driving unaccompanied?

Ace2007 · 17-08-2008 5:55pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

One may not act as an accompanied driver but there is nothing to stop one from teaching someone to drive (although that really should be left to proper instructors).

The insurance company would still be legally obliged to cover any third party claims but they could possibly pursue the driver to recoup their costs.

how could you teach someone to drive if your not allowed to sit beside them?

Accompanied driving rules & penalties for noncompliance

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