Accompanied driving rules & penalties for noncompliance

Wishbone Ash

Accompanied Driver Rules/Restrictions

Accompanied Driver

Category B Permit holders must be accompanied at all times:

The person acting as an Accompanied Driver must:

1. - hold a full Driving Licence for the relevant category.*

2. - have held the full Driving Licence for at least 2 years.

3. - have the Driving Licence with them.

4. - be in a fit state to drive.

* If the accompanied Driver holds a full but restricted Driving Licence, he/she cannot act as an Accompanied Driver in an unrestricted vehicle.




Categories A1, A, M, W

There is no legal requirement to be accompanied.

Provisional Licence/ Learner Permit holders in categories A1 A or M are legally prohibited from carrying a passenger.

All Provisional Licence/Learner Permit holders in category A A1 or M must display a yellow fluorescent tabard bearing the letter ‘L’ not less than 15 centimetres high in red on a white ground, in clearly visible vertical positions worn over the chest clothing to be the front and rear of the person’s torso.

Provisional Licence/Learner Permit holders in category W may only carry a passenger if the vehicle is constructed to carry a passenger and the passenger holds a full category W Driving Licence.


Categories B, B+E, C1, C1+E, C, C+E, D1, D1+E, D, D+E


Provisional Licence/Learner Permit holders are required to be accompanied at all times.

Provisional Licence/Learner Permit holders in categories B C1 C D1 D are prohibited from towing a trailer.

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A Provisional Licence/Learner Permit holder in any category may not carry a passenger for reward.


A Provisional Licence/Learner Permit issued here is valid for driving within the Republic of Ireland only.

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I've made this a sticky. I was going to lock it also but I'm willing to leave it open but this thread is intended for constructive or technical queries regarding the above. It is not intended for whinging or venting any anger or disagreement with the regulations.

Any such off-topic posts will be moved or deleted.

Changes to the Driver Licensing System

In this document you will find information about changes to the driver licensing regime. These changes affect learner drivers and recognise the fact that learner drivers are a vulnerable group of road users. The changes also serve to emphasise the importance of the learning phase for drivers, one element of this is the replacement of provisional licences with learner permits. The changes also highlight the important role played by the driver who accompanies a learner driver.

Over time the intention is to expand the range of conditions applying to a learner permit and to develop a graduated licensing system where there will be a number of different restrictions/conditions applying at different stages. These restrictions will apply while driving with a learner permit and in the initial years of driving with a full driving licence.

Summary of changes as it applies to provisional licence holders.

• A person while holding a second learner permit or second provisional licence can drive unaccompanied in the period up to 30 June 2008.

• A first time learner permit holder on or after 30 October 2007 (except for motorcyclists) must be accompanied by a person who holds a full driving licence in the category for a continuous period of two years.

• A person whose provisional licence has now lapsed but who held a provisional licence at any time in the five year period prior to 30 October 2007 can renew their licence by getting a learner permit before the five year limit expires. The learner permit in that case will not be considered a first time learner permit. While driving this person must be accompanied by a person who holds a full driving licence (no minimum period necessary) in the category.

• As has been the case up to now a person (except for motorcyclists) who currently holds a first, third or subsequent provisional licence must be accompanied by a person holding a full driving licence- no minimum period necessary. This will change on 30 June 2008 when all learner permit (provisional licence) holders must be accompanied by a person who holds a full licence for a two year period.


Specific details about each of the current changes together with questions and answers on the impact of each change are set out below.





• Provisional licences are being replaced by learner permits to emphasise the fact that the holder is a probationary driver and is learning to drive. Existing provisional licences will continue in force until their expiry date. On renewal the person will be issued with a learner permit.


Q: When will learner permits start to issue?

A: Learner permits will issue as and from 30 October 2007.


Q: My first provisional licence is about to expire and I will be renewing it after the implementation date for the introduction of the learner permit; will the learner permit I receive be considered a first time learner permit?

A: No, as you already held a provisional licence you are not considered to be a first time learner permit holder.


Q: Does the learner permit system apply to all driving licence categories?

A: Yes, the learner permit system will apply to all licence categories.


Q: Is there any change to the period of validity or the fee for a learner permit compared to that for a provisional licence?

A: No, the duration and fee remain the same as applied to provisional licences.


Q: Are there any changes to apply under the learner permit system?

A: A number of changes detailed below are being introduced for drivers with a learner permit. These are also being applied to drivers with a current provisional licence.


• The holder of a learner permit (except motorcyclists) must be accompanied by and under the supervision of a qualified person at all times.

Q: When does this new rule come into effect?

A: For holders of first time learner permits it is being introduced on 30 October 2007-see next question for its application to holders of second provisional licences.


Q: How will holders of second provisional licences, at present exempt from the accompaniment rule, be affected by this change?

A: In the case of persons currently holding a second provisional licence they will continue to be exempt while on the second provisional licence until 30 June 2008.


Q: I have passed the driving test in a vehicle with an automatic transmission and now hold a (provisional licence) learner permit for driving a car with a manual transmission, can I drive this car unaccompanied.

A: No, from the implementation date of this measure you must be accompanied by a qualified person until such time as you pass the driving test for a manual transmission car.


Q: In respect of which licence categories is a person who holds a (provisional licence) learner permit required to be accompanied by a qualified person?

A: Effective 30 October 2007 for learner permit holders and after 30 June 2008 for second provisional licence holders, drivers of vehicles of category B, C1, C, D1, D, EB, EC1, EC, ED1 or ED, (Cars, Trucks, Buses and Articulated Vehicles) must be accompanied by and under the supervision of a qualified person.


• An accompanying qualified person must hold a full driving licence for the vehicle category for at least two years.

Q. When is this change coming into effect?

A. Effective 30 October 2007 for first time learner permit holders and from 30 June 2008 for holders of all learner permits and unexpired provisional licences. The rule in place at present that first, third and subsequent provisional licence holders must be accompanied (but the accompanying person must hold a licence for a period which could be less than two years) continues in force until 30 June 2008. However, only the second provisional licence holders are exempt from being accompanied until 30 June 2008.


Q: If I am a learner driver driving a car and the accompanying person has held a driving licence for two years in respect of a motorcycle, or a tractor/work vehicle, can this person act as an accompanying qualified person?

A: No, on 30 October 2007 in the case of first time learner permit holders and after 30 June 2008 for holders of unexpired provisional licence, the accompanying qualified person must hold a driving licence for two years for the category of vehicle you are driving.


Q: If a person has passed a driving test to drive the vehicle category, can this person act as an accompanying qualified person?

A: No.


Q: If a person has held a full driving licence for an automatic vehicle for two years, may this person act as the accompanying person?

A: Yes, but only if the learner driver is driving an automatic transmission vehicle in the same category. If s/he is driving a manual transmission vehicle, the accompanying qualified person has to hold a full driving licence for at least two years for a manual transmission vehicle.


Q: If I have a learner permit (provisional licence) in category C1 (small truck) can I be accompanied by a person who holds a full driving licence for category B for two years and for category C1 for one year?

A: No, the accompanying qualified person must hold a full driving licence for two years in respect of the vehicle category which you wish to drive, in this case category C1.


Q: If the accompanying driver has heId his / her driving licence since six years ago but has been disqualified for 2 of the last 3 years, may he /she act as an accompanying driver?

A: No, the accompanying qualified person, at the time you are driving, must hold a full driving licence for two years in respect of the vehicle category which you wish to drive. He/she must not have been disqualified for any period of the previous two years.


• The carrying of a passenger by a motorcyclist with a (provisional licence) learner permit is a penal offence.


Q. When is this change coming into effect?

A. This change will apply on 30 October 2007 for first time learner permit holders and from 30 June 2008 for holders of unexpired provisional licences.


Q: Can I carry a passenger on any motorcycle category for which I hold a learner permit (provisional licence)?

A: No, you must have a full driving licence for the motorcycle in order to be able to carry a passenger.

Q: Can I carry a passenger on a category A motorcycle for which I hold a learner permit/ provisional licence if I have a full driving licence for category A1?

A: No.

Q: If I pass the motorcycle driving test, can I carry a passenger?

A: No, you must first exchange your certificate of competency (driving test pass certificate) for a full driving licence to be able to carry a passenger.


• It will be a penal offence for a holder of a category W (Tractor/Works vehicle) learner permit (provisional licence) to carry a passenger unless the vehicle is constructed or adapted to carry a passenger and the passenger is a qualified person, ie. a person who holds a full driving licence for the vehicle category for at least two years.


Q. When is this change coming into effect?

A. This change is effective from 30 October 2007 in the case of a first time learner permit holder and from 30 June 2008 to all other learner permit and provisional licence holders.


Q: When can I carry a passenger?

A: When the passenger holds a driving licence for the vehicle category for at least two years, and where the vehicle is constructed or adapted to carry a passenger.


Q: Can I carry a passenger who is a qualified person if there is no passenger seat?

A: No, the vehicle must be constructed/ adapted for the carriage of a passenger.


• It will be a penal offence for the holder of a learner permit (provisional licence) in respect of any licence category to carry in the vehicle any passenger for reward.

Q. When is this change coming into effect?

A. This change is effective from 30 October 2007 in the case of a first time learner permit holder and will apply as and from 30 June 2008 to the holder of an unexpired provisional licence.


Q: Can I carry a passenger for reward in the course of my employment?

A: No, you may not do so while driving under a learner permit (provisional licence).

Q: If I have a category D1 learner permit (provisional licence) to drive a minibus, can I carry a passenger for reward?

A: No, you may not do so while driving under a learner permit (provisional licence).


• It will be a penal offence for the holder of a learner permit (provisional licence) for vehicles of category B, C1, C, D1, D, EB, EC1, EC, ED1 or ED, to drive such a vehicle unless there are displayed on the vehicle rectangular plates or signs bearing the letter “L” not less than 15 centimetres high in red on a white ground, in clearly visible vertical positions to the front and rear of the vehicle.


Q. When is this change coming into effect?

A. This change is effective from 30 October 2007 in the case of a first time learner permit holder and will apply as and from 30 June 2008 to the holder of an unexpired provisional licence.


Q: If I have a category B full driving licence and a learner permit for category C (truck) or category D1 (minibus) must I display L plates?

A: Yes, you must display L plates on the truck or minibus if driving on a learner permit.


• It will be a penal offence for the holder of a learner permit (provisional licence) for vehicles of category B, C1, C, D1 or D, to drive such a vehicle while the vehicle is drawing a trailer.


Q. When is this change coming into effect?

A. This change is effective from 30 October 2007 in the case of a first time learner permit holder and will apply as and from 30 June 2008 to the holder of an unexpired provisional licence.


Q: If I have a category B driving licence and a learner permit for category C1 (small truck) can I draw a trailer?

A: No, you may not drive a truck while drawing a trailer if you hold a learner permit (provisional licence) for a truck. You must have the trailer entitlement for the category on the learner permit (provisional licence) in order to draw a trailer.


• Learner Motorcyclist to display L plates on a high visibility tabard.

Q: From what date will motorcyclists have to display L plates on a high visibility tabard?

A: It takes effect as and from 1 December 2007.


Q: Which learner motorcyclists are required to display L plates on a high visibility tabard?

A: All persons with a learner permit (provisional licence) for category A, A1, or M, must when driving such a vehicle display a yellow fluorescent tabard bearing the letter ‘L’ not less than 15 centimetres high in red on a white ground, in clearly visible vertical positions worn over the chest clothing. The ‘L’ plates are to be to the front and rear of the person’s torso. It will be a penal offence not to so display L plates.

• A person who is a first time holder of a learner permit, for a motorcycle, works vehicle or car (licence categories M, A1, A, W, B and EB) cannot take a driving test for a six month period after the commencement date of the permit.


Q. When is this change coming into effect?

A. This change will apply to first time learner permit holders for motorcycles, works vehicles and cars after 30 October 2007. Any newly licenced person holding a learner permit must wait six months before taking a driving test.

Q: My first provisional licence is about to expire and I will be renewing it after the implementation date for the new rule; will the learner permit I receive be considered a first time learner permit holder?

A: No, as you already held a provisional licence you are not considered to be a first time learner permit holder and the six month rule will not apply to you.


Q: Does the change apply to all licence categories?

A: No, It applies only to motorcycles, works vehicles and cars.


Q: Why is the six month limitation being applied?

A: The purpose of the provisional licence/learner permit is to allow a learner driver to gain experience of driving. Research shows that the longer a learner is supervised while driving, the less likely s/he is to be involved in an accident. For this reason the six months limitation is being applied.

I've been searching for a definitive answer on the rules of accompanying drivers. Coming up to Christmas now, I would like to be able to drive my friend/relatives home from nights out. If the accompanying driver is inebriated am I breaking the law?

I searched the RSA website, and came up with this document

http://www.rsa.ie/NEWS/upload/File/822_RSA_Strategy_ENG.pdf

which confuses me further...

page 90 of 100

"
The person acting as accompanying driver will be subject to drink driving legislation and mandatory
alcohol testing.
The accompanying driver is not subject to drink driving legislation and mandatory alcohol testing.
"
This needs to be cleared up, or is it simply a loophole?

Stark

The text in bold is the proposed measure. The text underneath is the law as it currently stands.

Wishbone Ash

Deleted User wrote: »

If the accompanying driver is inebriated am I breaking the law?

If you are required to be accompanied, then, under current legislation, the accompanied driver is required to be in a fit state to drive. If the accompanied driver is under the influence of alcohol, then you are effectively driving unaccompanied.

So, the answer to your question is 'yes'.

Wishbone Ash

Threads merged.

Feachan

Just to clarify the accompanying person is not at present subject to drink driving laws. Nonetheless the principle is that the accompanying driver ought to be able to take control of the vehicle and generally advise the learner.

I accept that some of these notions are honoured more in the breach than reality. Its in the current Road Safety Strategy 2006-2012 that the accompanying driver will generally be subject to same laws as driver and this is as it should be.

I wish everyone a safe and happy Christmas.

sdanseo

A. Effective 30 October 2007 for first time learner permit holders and from 30 June 2008 for holders of all learner permits and unexpired provisional licences. The rule in place at present that first, third and subsequent provisional licence holders must be accompanied (but the accompanying person must hold a licence for a period which could be less than two years) continues in force until 30 June 2008.

Has the penalty for breaking this rule been increased as reported to €1,000/3 months imprisonment as reported at the time, or is that to be implemented in June?

April Raine

Can someone who obtained a full B licence last week be accompanying driver? What is a restricted full as in the sticky

Alanstrainor

April Raine wrote: »

Can someone who obtained a full B licence last week be accompanying driver? What is a restricted full as in the sticky

If the learner driver has a learner permit they must have held their full license for 2 years before being able to accompany a leaner driver

Wishbone Ash

April Raine wrote: »

What is a restricted full as in the sticky

The person acting as an Accompanied Driver must:

1. - hold a full Driving Licence for the relevant category.*

2. - have held the full Driving Licence for at least 2 years.**

3. - have the Driving Licence with them.

4. - be in a fit state to drive.

* If the accompanied Driver holds a full but restricted Driving Licence, he/she cannot act as an Accompanied Driver in an unrestricted vehicle.

** This does not apply to those accompanying existing Provisional Licence holders in Category B.

Two quick examples:

1. A person who has passed a driving test in a vehicle with automatic transmission may only act as an accompanied driver in a similarly categorised vehicle with automatic transmission.

2. A person who has passed a driving test in an adapted vehicle (i.e. a vehicle designed for persons with physical disabilities) may only act as an accompanied driver in a similarly categorised vehicle.

Wishbone Ash

Thread merged.

andresmalo

Question,

I pass my driver theory test, and now I have my provisional driver license. Im from Argentina and I have my Argentinian driverl license as well. I insured my car under my irish provisional driver license but.. Im wondering if I drive my car "ALONE" and the garda stops me, if I show them my Argentinian driver license what should they say?, I mean.. I can drive with my Argentinian driver license by law for one year since I arrive to Ireland, so.. I supposed to be "legally" driving?.

Thanks a lot.

Alanstrainor

You are driving an Irish car, insured in Ireland and are currently holding an Irish Learner Permit, so i would be thinking that you could be asking for trouble trying to show your Argentinian License.

andresmalo

Sorry bud but, what's your point?
if the law says that Im able to drive a car in the republic of ireland for one year since the date of arrival, do you think that is telling me to bring the car from Argentina because I am Argentinian and I shouldn't drive an Irish car?.

Sorry but I think that makes no sense.

Alanstrainor

andresmalo wrote: »

Sorry bud but, what's your point?
if the law says that Im able to drive a car in the republic of ireland for one year since the date of arrival, do you think that is telling me to bring the car from Argentina because I am Argentinian and I shouldn't drive an Irish car?.

Sorry but I think that makes no sense.

Not at all, my point is that you have insured yourself on a learner permit, not an Argentinian license. You can't pick and choose what license you're on.

Duckjob

I'm interested in this scenario:

Suppose, at the end of night out, and very much the worse for wear that I, as a full licence holder, accept a lift home in a car driven by a 1st provisional holder. Suppose the car is stopped by the guards, and there is nobody other full licence holder present in the car.

Does the law say the 1st prov driver drove "unaccompanied" (as there was no "fit" full licence driver) and therefore is accountable?

or

Does the law assume me as the accompanying driver, and as such I'm subject to drink-driving leglislation because I was drunk?


To complicate it further, suppose the 1st prov driver decides to save his own bacon, and tells the guards that he only drove because I agreed to accompany and that he didn't know I was drunk?

None of this has ever happened to me btw. Just curious

sdanseo

Duckjob wrote: »

I'm interested in this scenario:

Suppose, at the end of night out, and very much the worse for wear that I, as a full licence holder, accept a lift home in a car driven by a 1st provisional holder. Suppose the car is stopped by the guards, and there is nobody other full licence holder present in the car.

Does the law say the 1st prov driver drove "unaccompanied" (as there was no "fit" full licence driver) and therefore is accountable?

or

Does the law assume me as the accompanying driver, and as such I'm subject to drink-driving leglislation because I was drunk?


To complicate it further, suppose the 1st prov driver decides to save his own bacon, and tells the guards that he only drove because I agreed to accompany and that he didn't know I was drunk?

None of this has ever happened to me btw. Just curious

As I understand it, the law at the moment does not require the accompanying driver to be sober. That's a snippet taken from boards.ie so you can decide for yourself on its reliability I was under the impression, i should add, from what I read that this situation would be changing soon.

Wishbone Ash

Duckjob wrote: »

Does the law say the 1st prov driver drove "unaccompanied" (as there was no "fit" full licence driver) and therefore is accountable?

Yes - the Learner Permit holder would be deemed to be unaccompanied.

Duckjob wrote:

suppose the 1st prov driver decides to save his own bacon, and tells the guards that he only drove because I agreed to accompany and that he didn't know I was drunk?

I presume the Learner Permit holder is responsible for ensuring that he is legally accompanied. As they say "Ignorance is no defence".

sdonn_1 wrote: »

As I understand it, the law at the moment does not require the accompanying driver to be sober

If they are not sober, then they cannot act as an accompanied driver in the legal sense (even if they are physically in the car).

wil

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Not at all, my point is that you have insured yourself on a learner permit, not an Argentinian license. You can't pick and choose what license you're on.

Is anyone aware whether insurance companies can or do insure people legally allowed to drive on their nonEU licence or do they require that they are insured on an Irish provisional/permit. It seems odd that this Argentinian chose to be insured on a learner basis.
I thought the logic of the one year from entry was to allow people with non-exchangeable licences time to get an Irish licence, not to force them drive as learners.

To clarify the relevence to the current thread, in the UK where they do tend to state things a bit more clearly, a driver in this situation, driving legally on a current valid NonEU licence, dispite also holding a UK provisional licence, is not subject to the accompanied rule.

This only applies after 12 months from entry if they havent qualified for a full UK licence.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/DrivingInGbOnAForeignLicence/DG_4022561

Could the Irish situation be clarified

Wishbone Ash

wil wrote: »

It seems odd that this Argentinian chose to be insured on a learner basis

If his/her licence is not exchangeable, they would have to become a Learner Driver at some stage over here to obtain an Irish Licence. Waiting until the year has expired would prolong the enevitable wouldn't it (or am I missing something?).

wil

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

If his/her licence is not exchangeable, they would have to become a Learner Driver at some stage over here to obtain an Irish Licence. Waiting until the year has expired would prolong the enevitable wouldn't it (or am I missing something?).

That is true but not really an answer to my question. What happens after 12 months is not in question.
I am not intending to tease this issue out but wondering if anyone actually knows the definitive rules. ( It seems to me for any grey areas the private Insurance companies decide their own legality and the government/gardai follow)
NonEU visitors here may drive on their current valid nonEU licence for a period of 12 months from entry. It is a concessionary period allowing them time to qualify for an Irish licence.
It makes a nonsense of that concession if they are treated as learners anyway. Why bother with the concession?

The UK position is clear, you can drive (unrestricted) or 12 months on your current valid licence but still apply for a UK licence under the normal procedures of getting a provisional (I wont call it a licence) etc.

The Irish situation is far from clarified, but when has that ever been a surprise.:rolleyes:

Wishbone Ash

wertyl wrote: »

My point is that having a FULL license does NOT qualify a driver to teach other people and this it where this law completely fails

The regulations governing the licencing of drivers are not sophisticated enough to cover every scenario. Otherwise they would be just too cumbersome and difficult to implement. There are many people in other scenarios where they are legallyentitled to something but it may be unwise to carry it out.

I passed the motorcycle test several years ago. After passing I was restricted for two years to smaller bikes. Two years after passing that test the restriction was lifted. I have no interest in bikes and have not sat on one since the day of my test yet I am legally entitled to go out and ride any motorcycle regardless of its power.

the waiting lists are still ridiculously long.

They average 8.2 weeks.

reversing around a corner does not prove that one can drive on motorways and dual carriageways

That is not the purpose of that manoeuvre.

Alanstrainor

NOTE
This thread is supposed to be an informative thread, bickering about the rules should be taken to it's own thread, or else ill have to close it.

Caychadh

Does anyone know what is happening with people who pass their driving test after June 30th? I know you can't act as an accompanying driver for a learner but will there be a special restricted licence or will you need to display 'R' plates for a year? Sorry if this has been asked already.

Alanstrainor

Caychadh wrote: »

Does anyone know what is happening with people who pass their driving test after June 30th? I know you can't act as an accompanying driver for a learner but will there be a special restricted licence or will you need to display 'R' plates for a year? Sorry if this has been asked already.

The restricted license is a proposal for the future, at present it does not apply here.

fatjose101

what is the penalty for a leaner driver caught without an accompanied full licience holder?

Wishbone Ash

fatjose101 wrote: »

what is the penalty for a leaner driver caught without an accompanied full licience holder?

Do a bit of a search fatjose - that's the most frequently asked question on this Forum.

(It has even been answered on this thread. )

Alanstrainor

A learner driver found to be driving unaccompanied will face a minimum fine of €1000 and or disqualification. Driving without L plates could warrant an additional minimum of €1000 fine.

wil

According to the RSA

Changes to the Driver Licensing System Efective After 30 June 2008

Q: What is the penalty if a learner driver drives unaccompanied?
A: It is a penal offence and is punishable by a fine of a minimum of €1,000

Q: What is the penalty if a learner drives a vehicle without displaying L plates?
A: It is a penal offence and is punishable by a minimum fine of €1,000

Alanstrainor

right you are, got my max and mins confused there last night.

Wishbone Ash

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Accompanied Driver Rules/Restrictions

Accompanied Driver


The person acting as an Accompanied Driver must:

1. - hold a full Driving Licence for the relevant category.*

2. - have held the full Driving Licence for at least 2 years.**


** This does not apply to those accompanying existing Provisional Licence holders in Category B.

Is this still the case after June 30th? I can't find anything on RSA website about accompanying driver's requirements being different for Learner's Permits, and Provisional License holders?

My girlfriend's test is on July 2nd, I have passed my test, but only 3 months ago. She has a provisional License. Am I entitled to accompany her?

Thanks

Alanstrainor

Yes you can accompany her until the 30th of June. After which she will need to be accompanied by a fully licensed driver who has held their license for 2 years or more.

Stark

His girlfriend's on a provisional though, which I think is still subject to the old rules.

Alanstrainor

Stark wrote: »

His girlfriend's on a provisional though, which I think is still subject to the old rules.

correct, i realised my mistake straight after posting my response. I'm too used to people being on Learner Permits!

wil

Alanstrainor wrote: »

correct, i realised my mistake straight after posting my response. I'm too used to people being on Learner Permits!

I think you were right the first time.

Again according to the RSA

"Summary of changes as it applies to learner permit holders (the changes
also apply to persons holding a provisional licence). All provisional

licences are now considered to be learner permit"

My understanding of that is there will be no legal difference between permit and provisional after June and the same rules apply to all drivers without full licence.
I recall when the same rule was introduced in the UK many years ago and accompanying drivers one day could no longer be the next day. People still coped.

Alanstrainor

wil wrote: »

I think you were right the first time.

Again according to the RSA

"Summary of changes as it applies to learner permit holders (the changes
also apply to persons holding a provisional licence). All provisional

licences are now considered to be learner permit"

My understanding of that is there will be no legal difference between permit and provisional after June and the same rules apply to all drivers without full licence.
I recall when the same rule was introduced in the UK many years ago and accompanying drivers one day could no longer be the next day. People still coped.

No, that document applies after the 30th of June deadline. So up until the 30th of June if you have a provisional license you are bound by the old rules regarding fully licensed drivers.

wil

Alanstrainor wrote: »

No, that document applies after the 30th of June deadline. So up until the 30th of June if you have a provisional license you are bound by the old rules regarding fully licensed drivers.

Exactly as you said before you contradicted yourself, and as I confirmed with this RSA quote. (admittedly the RSA "now" is a post jun30th "now" from the future, but the rest of my post made that clear.)
Too many late nights?:)

Alanstrainor

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Yes you can accompany her until the 30th of June. After which she will need to be accompanied by a fully licensed driver who has held their license for 2 years or more.

Alanstrainor wrote: »

No, that document applies after the 30th of June deadline. So up until the 30th of June if you have a provisional license you are bound by the old rules regarding fully licensed drivers.

wil wrote: »

Exactly as you said before you contradicted yourself, and as I confirmed with this RSA quote. (admittedly the RSA "now" is a post jun30th "now" from the future, but the rest of my post made that clear.)
Too many late nights?:)

Eh? there was no contradiction?

EDIT: Incase you didn't realise, my first post was edited about 30 seconds after posting, as i had thought Emery Dirty Zygote's girlfriend was on a learner permit. So, my post that reads "Yes you can accompany her until the 30th of June. After which she will need to be accompanied by a fully licensed driver who has held their license for 2 years or more." Was the corrected post.

wil

Apologies.
My brain wasnt up to the grammar intricacies of the past imperfect postedited tense.:)

Anyway to summarise/clarify

After June, all learners (regardless of permit/provisional) must be accompanied by a suitably qualified driver and must display L-plates.

Wishbone Ash

wil wrote: »

Anyway to summarise/clarify

After June, all learners (regardless of permit/provisional) must be accompanied by a suitably qualified driver

Except those Provisional Licence / Learner Permit holders in categories A, A1, M, and W!

DRice

If I fail my test can I reapply immediately or is there some horrifying 6 month waiting period?

Wishbone Ash

DRice wrote: »

If I fail my test can I reapply immediately or is there some horrifying 6 month waiting period?

Yes, you may apply immediately. The 6 months wait applies to the the initial test for those on a 1st Learner Permit in some categories.

BlackCat2008

I have read all of the forum but legal jargon is not my strong point. Is it definitely only a fine If U are caught unaccompanied with or with out L plates and if you have other people in the car (kids etc.) I was under the impression they could take the license of you for two years. I don't care to brake the law but I am waiting for a test along time and won't even get it till August or sept. I sent in a letter from work. It's nearly a month now and still no date and yes I have been on and on at them.

Also my uncle said he heard on the radio if you have an accident unaccompanied you are still covered by your insurance and that the police are not going to crack down on us as they don't understand the rules them self.

Can anyone clear this up for me I have no choose but to work and have to have the car to do it.

Wishbone Ash

BlackCat2008 wrote: »

Is it definitely only a fine If U are caught unaccompanied with or with out L plates and if you have other people in the car (kids etc.)

It would be at the discretion of the Garda in question as to whether to pursue it or not.

It is irrelevant whether there are passengers in the car or not.

BlackCat2008 wrote:

I was under the impression they could take the license of you

AFAIK that particular route is open for repeat offenders.

BlackCat2008 wrote:

I don't care to brake the law

That's not a great attitude to have. It's a slap in the face to those who obey the regulations.

Blackcat2008 wrote:

Also my uncle said he heard on the radio if you have an accident unaccompanied you are still covered by your insurance

Your insurer is obliged to cover for any 3rd party claims that may arise but they also reserve the right to pursue a motorist for their costs if they know that the motorist in question was driving beyond the terms of their licence.

BlackCat2008 wrote:

the police are not going to crack down on us as they don't understand the rules them self.

I fail to see how you think that they would have difficulty understanding that most Provisional Licence/Learner Permit holders are required to be accompanied!

BlackCat2008

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

It would be at the discretion of the Garda in question as to whether to pursue it or not.

It is irrelevant whether there are passengers in the car or not.

AFAIK that particular route is open for repeat offenders.

Thank you for replying to me.I think I need l to clear up a misunderstanding I didn't mean I don't care for the law I meant I don't want to have to brake the law. I am stuck in a bad position financially and domed if I do domed if I don't I could even lose my job. I don't now whats taking them so long to test me. I have to have the car for emergencies aswell (elderly grand mother sick Kids and animals I'm just trying to way up the risks.) I have absolutely no one to accompany me in the car and would not have taken on the job I have if I know this was going to happen.I've been driving for three years with out accidents or points.

Can anyone tell me if they got a test very quickly and who with ?

Wishbone Ash

BlackCat2008 wrote: »

I think I need l to clear up a misunderstanding I didn't mean I don't care for the law I meant I don't want to have to brake the law

Apologies - I thought you were saying that you didn't care if you broke the law.

BlackCat2008 wrote:

would not have taken on the job I have if I know this was going to happen

Didn't you apply as soon as the announcement was made last October?

Inform the RSA that you are willing to be tested at very short notice.

Mellor

I passed my test last month (first time )
I haven't yet applied for the licence, I know that legally I am still a provisional driver and will have to get the full soon.

Will the fact that the deadline has passed have any impact the full licence that i'll recieve

Duckjob

Mellor wrote: »

I passed my test last month (first time )
I haven't yet applied for the licence, I know that legally I am still a provisional driver and will have to get the full soon.

Will the fact that the deadline has passed have any impact the full licence that i'll recieve

I'm open to correction from other posters but as I understand it the Certificate of Competancy you would have received on passing your test effectively grants you 'Full Licence' priveleges until you receive your actual Full Licence , so any Provisional or Learner Permit deadline rules would not apply to you anymore.

Also, AFAIK the only thing that effects the type of Full Licence you receive is whether you passed your test in a manual or automatic. If it was an automatic then you are only licenced to drive automatics.

Alanstrainor

Duckjob wrote: »

I'm open to correction from other posters but as I understand it the Certificate of Competancy you would have received on passing your test effectively grants you 'Full Licence' priveleges until you receive your actual Full Licence , so any Provisional or Learner Permit deadline rules would not apply to you anymore.

Well there is a bit of a debate over that on this forum. I hope to receive a reply to a letter sent to the rsa regarding this topic shortly. From what i have heard from WA, your cert does not grant you full license rights, it's only when you receive your receipt from the motor tax office, then you can drive. Hopefully i'll receive a letter conforming this in the next couple of days.

Red Alert

I believe you're not allowed drive on a motorway or outside Ireland until you have the full license itself.

Mellor

Duckjob wrote: »

I'm open to correction from other posters but as I understand it the Certificate of Competancy you would have received on passing your test effectively grants you 'Full Licence' priveleges until you receive your actual Full Licence , so any Provisional or Learner Permit deadline rules would not apply to you anymore.

Also, AFAIK the only thing that effects the type of Full Licence you receive is whether you passed your test in a manual or automatic. If it was an automatic then you are only licenced to drive automatics.

I can't say for sure, but I was told that the cert does not allow you to drive, I was told this by the tester. He adviced me to apply sooner, the reciept however can be used