Missing Madeline - Anyone else sick of this?

Malteaser!

Femmy wrote:

Oh for gods sake, Plenty of parents would leave their kids alone in a foreign country so they could go for a drink...?

Please..all the parents on this forum...hands up if you agrees with this

Like i said already, i wouldnt leave my daughter in my own home for 10 mins..not to mind a foreign place so i could go for a drink, its obsurd!

I totally agree with you.

I know that any parent I've spoken to about this has said that they would NEVER ever have left their children alone anywhere at that age, it is totally irresponsible.

So many thing can go wrong when leaving a child that age on their own, and this whole case is just proof of that!

stovelid

herbieflowers wrote:

Situations are incomparable. The dog owned by the aforementioned jailed man was illegal. Thus he was responsible. Madeline McCann's parents did not do anything contravening judicial law per se, their moral/ethical decision could be questioned as this thread shows...

It's a valid point though. I feel that they have a got a pretty easy ride of the press re: the supposed negligence because they are respectable, middle class preofessionals.

thebaz

Femmy wrote:

Oh for gods sake, Plenty of parents would leave their kids alone in a foreign country so they could go for a drink...?

Please..all the parents on this forum...hands up if you agrees with this

Like i said already, i wouldnt leave my daughter in my own home for 10 mins..not to mind a foreign place so i could go for a drink, its obsurd!

they were in a complex for Gods sake .... plenty of parents won't let there children out to play for fear of being attacked by paedos ., is that good parenting , in my view its over protective , yes the child will be 100% safe , but it will stunt there social dev., -- if people can't understand where i'm coming from so be it , and not see this as a rare unfortunate incidident -- in fact the blanket coverahe by sky , is problably going to encourage more mass over protectionism to children , where parents won't let the children experience some of the world on there own , due to irrational fear .. all i can say is i'm glad i wasn't watched over 24/7 throughout my youth

_feedback_

Seriously, you're not making any valid points. It's not about letting kids see the real world..... it's about leaving three very young kids alone and one of them getting taken.

sam34

thebaz wrote:

they were in a complex for Gods sake .... plenty of parents won't let there children out to play for fear of being attacked by paedos ., is that good parenting , in my view its over protective , yes the child will be 100% safe , but it will stunt there social dev., -- if people can't understand where i'm coming from so be it , and not see this as a rare unfortunate incidident -- in fact the blanket coverahe by sky , is problably going to encourage more mass over protectionism to children , where parents won't let the children experience some of the world on there own , due to irrational fear .. all i can say is i'm glad i wasn't watched over 24/7 throughout my youth

ah sure, everyone go on, let their kids out to play and wander unsupervised...if they get molested by a paedophile, sure who cares, at least you wont have been overprotective, irrational and stunted their social development.

JESUS H....

have you any sense of responsibility and any COP ON??????

6th

thebaz wrote:

they were in a complex for Gods sake .... plenty of parents won't let there children out to play for fear of being attacked by paedos ., is that good parenting , in my view its over protective , yes the child will be 100% safe , but it will stunt there social dev., -- if people can't understand where i'm coming from so be it , and not see this as a rare unfortunate incidident -- in fact the blanket coverahe by sky , is problably going to encourage more mass over protectionism to children , where parents won't let the children experience some of the world on there own , due to irrational fear .. all i can say is i'm glad i wasn't watched over 24/7 throughout my youth

Yeah its worth the risk isn't it?

Its only a rare unfortunate incidident because most parents aren't that irresponsible or stupid.

Its hardly an irrational fear though is it?

6th

elviscostello wrote:

Seriously, you're not making any valid points. It's not about letting kids see the real world..... it's about leaving three very young kids alone and one of them getting taken.

No point he doesn't get it. Probably never will either.

eirebhoy

vorbis wrote:

Firstly I'm not a parent. However, all these hypothetical situations (what if the kids cut themselves with a knife, went wandering and hurt themselves) are a little daft. Supposed the 3 year old wakes up at home at 3AM, walks into the kitchen, grabs a knife by the blade and cuts herself. Are the parents to blame in that situation?

Judging by some people here, its a massive risk to sleep through the night if you have kids! Be honest people, the chance of anything bad happening was ridicolously small. If a child is somehow going to seriously hurt himself / herself in the space of half an hour, I don't see how the same situation couldn't arise in the family home.

The chances of the child harming themselves may be small but the chances of her waking up and realising her parents had locked them in the house is big. Surely you don't need to have children to realise how scared a child would be to wake up alone? They'd be left traumatised if they were stuck there for half an hour.

Hrududu

yes the child will be 100% safe , but it will stunt there social dev

I can see how having your parents stay in at night when you are abroad before you turn 4 could stunt your growth alright.

I'm sure if the child is found alive she'll thank her parents for the independance they allowed her. This event wont stunt her growth in the slightest.

_feedback_

Hrududu wrote:

I'm sure if the child is found alive she'll thank her parents for the independance they allowed her. This event wont stunt her growth in the slightest.

Ah yeah, I'd say she'd be delighted with the whole abduction thing... wouldn't bother a 3 year old in the slightest.

6ix

This link was sent to me, and I think it's a fair commentary on the Madeleine case, and the hype that surrounds it.

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/3365/

mountainyman

6th wrote:

Whats a "few" to you?



Thats too far away but again I'll ask the question:

Why didnt they pay for a babysitter?!

The travel company was charging 12 euro an hour. Considering that Portugal is poor that is gouging. I hope Mark Warner travel goes bankrupt.
But why didn't they bring the kids with them. Portuguese don't mind.

Were Mark Warner travel negligent in not ensuring that suspicious characters were kept away from a resort which advertises itself as kid friendly.

MM

MM

RuggieBear

6ix wrote:

This link was sent to me, and I think it's a fair commentary on the Madeleine case, and the hype that surrounds it.

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/3365/

That's a far superior summation of my view than i could ever write.

6th

mountainyman wrote:

The travel company was charging 12 euro an hour. Considering that Portugal is poor that is gouging.

Portugal may be poor but the parents are not. They decided to save a bit of cash.

thebaz

sam34 wrote:

ah sure, everyone go on, let their kids out to play and wander unsupervised...if they get molested by a paedophile, sure who cares, at least you wont have been overprotective, irrational and stunted their social development.

JESUS H....

have you any sense of responsibility and any COP ON??????

interpret it that way if you want -- the world isn't full of paedos and molesters -- yes they exist , but the paranoid that this media saturation will lead to , could cause over protectionism -- maybe you should be blaming the real culprits, the abductors and paedos who actually took Madeline -- rather than have a go at me

thebaz

6th wrote:

No point he doesn't get it. Probably never will either.

thankfully no

whiskeyman

6ix wrote:

This link was sent to me, and I think it's a fair commentary on the Madeleine case, and the hype that surrounds it.

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/3365/

Super article.
Thanks for that.

thebaz

6ix wrote:

This link was sent to me, and I think it's a fair commentary on the Madeleine case, and the hype that surrounds it.

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/3365/

my last post on this topic is an extract from above link, put more eloquently than i can write

"When people’s public reactions are based on unthinking ersatz emotion, divorced from any real involvement with the family or the case, they can just as easily turn against the parents as in their favour - especially at a time when parent-bashing has become so much in vogue."

sam34

thebaz wrote:

maybe you should be blaming the real culprits, the abductors and paedos who actually took Madeline -- rather than have a go at me

i'll reiterate- i think the parents have to take some of the blame. fact is, if thay had been with their children at 9.30 that night, instead of having left them alone, then madeleine would not have been abducted. the parents made no provisions to have someone mind their three children, despite the easy availability of babysitting services. abductors will prey an easy targets and vulnerable kids, and due to the parents irresponsibility, thats unfortunately what madeleine was.

Gran Hermano

Maybe I'm the only one who'd like to see the sprog found and then taken from
the parents and homed with responsible adults who might actually perform
their proper duties and not neglect their kids. Wonder if the good 'christian'
parents are still popping out for dinner over recent nights and leaving the
twins on their own. The media harks on about the fact they were only
across the complex - they've glossed over the massive flowerbed and hedge
which inital reports showed not only were the kids out of earshot but the
apartment was out of sight. Disgraceful parenting.

Catari Jaguar

Today's paper claims 454 children in the UK have gone missing SINCE Maddy was abducted. Yes. 454. Go find them.

vorbis

thebaz wrote:

my last post on this topic is an extract from above link, put more eloquently than i can write

"When people’s public reactions are based on unthinking ersatz emotion, divorced from any real involvement with the family or the case, they can just as easily turn against the parents as in their favour - especially at a time when parent-bashing has become so much in vogue."

Thats a very interesting point. The determination of some people to have a right go at the parents is a touch unnerving. Who is it for? You can't make the parents feel worse than they already do. People seem more upset at the parents than the actual kidnappers! :eek:

Statistically, the chances of ANYTHING bad happening to the kids was tiny. You may not like the idea of leaving kids on their own for 30 minutes but its not inherently dangerous. There is simply no evidence to back up the notion that large numbers of accidents happen to kids left on their own for short periods.

ejmaztec

Strange how some of the people on this thread criticise the media coverage, saying that it's only in the forefront because the McCanns are middle-class professionals. If you read the rest of the following article, some of which is quoted here, you might have a different opinion.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1779638.ece

_______________________________________________________________

"Determination has always been a hallmark of the McCanns. They are both high-achievers from working-class families, she from Liverpool, he from Glasgow. Mrs McCann studied medicine at the University of Dundee, qualified as an anaesthetist, then retrained as a GP because the work would be easier to combine with motherhood.

Her husband was the youngest of five children of Irish immigrants. His father was a joiner; his mother worked in a biscuit factory. He went on to study medicine at the University of Glasgow, became Scotland’s under19 1,500 metres running champion and briefly dabbled in sports medicine. It was through contacts that he made working with Scotland’s under21 football team that Cristiano Ronaldo and John Terry were persuaded to issue appeals for Madeleine. Yesterday David Beckham lent his voice to the cause"

________________________________________________________________

Perhaps after all of these achievements, they thought that it was always going to be onward and upwards.

The ostensibly middle-class true-blue British holiday-maker would have had a nanny without any hesitation. They would have invested much time and money in their offspring and would make certain that they weren’t going to lose that investment for the sake of a few quid. Perhaps the McCanns, given their background, would have had it in their genes not to be extravagant by handing over "large" sums to baby-sitters.

I know that Sky news is a crock-o-s**** at the best if times, but when some criticise the relevance of “British” news in Ireland, perhaps it could be considered that both parents have got more relatives here than in the UK. Also, you can bet your bottom dollar that the strong Irish community in the UK has been instrumental in getting the news out for these people.

Perhaps the headline should have been “Poor people climb out of the gutter, make good, make mistake and get shafted”

Personally, I would never - and have never left my kids on their own in that situation, basically because I don’t trust anyone with a pulse, no matter who they are (wife excluded, of course)!

Terry

Normally I'm the first person to tell other to read the whole thread before replying, but I have failed to do so in this case.
As a result i will just say this:
They should not have left the child on her own.
Whether the kidnapper is deranged, mentally ill or just plain old psychotic, parents have a responsibility toi care for the children they bring into this world.
Checking the room every half hour is just not good enough.

melekalikimaka

couldn't give a monkeys really. its one girl in a world where there are alot more important issues going on then this malarky. bloody bebo is getting flooded with skins based on her too, cry me a bloody river!

Capt'n Midnight

Lil Kitten wrote:

Today's paper claims 454 children in the UK have gone missing SINCE Maddy was abducted. Yes. 454. Go find them.

there are about 11 million children in the UK
about 7 are killed each year by strangers more or less constant over the last 25 years

Terry

sweet. I killed a thread.
About time.

Saintly

Interesting thread, some of the more negative comments are VERY simplistic.

Any publicity for ANY missing child helps more than just the kid on tv. In a case like the McCanns, criminal behavioural analysts/psychologists will be work closely with the family and the police - using the media as a communication tool with the abductor. The ways statements are made, shaped, language used etc - are all techniques employed to help resolve the case. In addition, media publicity and associated public interest can ultimately causes shifts in policies - protecting vast numbers of children - just look at the US and various legislative/policy changes brought in - the Amber alert system, Megan's law etc as an example of this. So for all those who complain about other kids being ignored, one high profile case can benefit many powerless children.

I don't know how many of you have been unfortunate enough to view photographic or video evidence of child sexual abuse (I have in my line of work). Some people here might revise their opinions if they had. CSA is one of the finest examples of the triumph of evil over innocence. Many of the victims remain nameless, unknown. When we do know a child is at risk, when there may be a benefit to ample publicity, you take it, you grab it and you run with it. People are right. Other children are missing, other children remain voiceless. Madeleine McCann is one of them at the moment, she doesn't deserve any less attention, just because her fellow victims lack it. If this is a CSA case, this is NOT the perpretators first offence. Other children will have been harmed by him in the past (possibly lesser offences) and if uncaptured, others will be seriously harmed/killed in future - as his range of crime escalates. Finding Madeleine, dead or alive, will ultimately protect other children.

With regard to the criticism of the parents. UK and Irish law do not stipulate an age when a child can be left alone (there are also recorded cases of an intruder killing/ removing a child while the parents are sleeping - if the intruder was determined to have Madeleine, the frightening reality is that the parents sleeping presence may not have been a deterent- children as old as 14/15 have been harmed in their own home with parents in the same house.) Given the fact that the parents were 50 metres away and checked on the children every 30 minutes, social services would not proceed with a neglect notification. Personally, I would not leave young children of the McCann ages alone, however general guidelines from voluntary child protection agencies stipulate that children under 12 should never be left alone. Wonder how many people on this thread adhere to that?

Before everyone beats the McCanns with the bad parenting stick, take a look at your own parenting mates. How many parents do you know who take their kids to an Irish wedding and let them sleep alone in the hotel room, while Mum and Dad attack the bar? Or drive the kids home the following morning, while well over the limit? Most children are abused by someone within the family/peer circle. Think of children you know who go to sleepovers - when parents are mere acquaintances- children who are dropped off at activities alone - eight and nine year olds who spend a half hour at home before Mum/Dad get back from work, young children playing away from home (distances significantly longer distance than 50 metres and with less supervision than occured in Portugal), who check on them every half hour or so.... Presumably, these parents do not expect their child to be assaulted or abducted either.

Finally, there are choices in news coverage. The BBC is not even using the McCann as a lead story (it's not even a headline on their website.). Sky News thrives on popular dramatic news stories - watching it for comprehensive news coverage is like ignoring The Irish Times and complaining about the election coverage in The Sun.

Saintly

HashSlinging

Very well said.

fatboypee

melekalikimaka wrote:

couldn't give a monkeys really. its one girl in a world where there are alot more important issues going on then this malarky. bloody bebo is getting flooded with skins based on her too, cry me a bloody river!

Really, quite sums it up doesn't it.

self-obssessed, bordering sociopathic.....

pretty fkking normal commentary on this thread at this stage :rolleyes: