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when did we massacre all the protestants

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    #92
    Shutuplaura
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭Shutuplaura


    Yeah, that little nuggett has been harder to track down than I thought, I remeber reading it in a book years ago - Eamon O'Maille's Book on the IRA, tried to find it on amazon but I couldn't so perhaps I have the authors name wrong - On Google I did find instances of Prot. members of the IRA - not many admittedly as any search that includes IRA brings up a wide variety of information. Eg search for Noel Lyttle who was a prot. INLA member

    Regarding the religous mix of the RIC - This is common enough information, most history books should hve something on it. Wikipedia for example has the following quote, "The force was predominantly Roman Catholic, although there were fewer Catholics in the higher ranks."

    The wikipedia page has more info - if you don't like using wikipedia as a source have a look around the net or in a comprehensive book about the troubles.


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    #93
    vesp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭vesp


    Shutuplaura wrote:
    On Google I did find instances of Prot. members of the IRA - not many admittedly as any search that includes IRA brings up a wide variety of information. Eg search for Noel Lyttle who was a prot. INLA member

    Few and far between. Not surprising given the sectarian nature of many INLA attacks / atrocities, which unfortunately were not as few and far between eg the murders at Darkley, where republican gunmen ( INLA as far as I remember ) burst in to a church and randomly sprayed machine gun fire around worshippers during their service, killing some and injuring others.


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    #94
    man1
    Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭man1


    Shutuplaura wrote:
    Yeah, that little nuggett has been harder to track down than I thought, I remeber reading it in a book years ago - Eamon O'Maille's Book on the IRA, tried to find it on amazon but I couldn't so perhaps I have the authors name wrong

    Ed Maloney maybe?? I read that one but no reference to protestant brigade of the IRA in Belfast as far as I remember!

    Shutuplaura wrote:
    - On Google I did find instances of Prot. members of the IRA - not many admittedly as any search that includes IRA brings up a wide variety of information.

    Which instances did you find?
    Shutuplaura wrote:
    Eg search for Noel Lyttle who was a prot. INLA member

    I know about him (and Ronnie Bunting) , but he was (a) not in the period that you stated (1919-1921) and (b) not in the IRA and (c) was not part of an exclusive "protestant brigade".

    While there were many protestant, as well as jewish, methodist and even agnostic members of the old IRA down south in the period that you mention, including some very important members like Bob Briscoe and Eamon Martin (and many others that we already know about) and also several regular foot soldiers as well, It is again highly unlikely that there was a "protestant brigade" in Belfast (or even one down south) as it had an extreme sectarian atmosphere in belfast during that period where protestants tended to be loyalists and catholics tended to be republicans whereas down south it was more about getting the british army out rather than "lets go after him because he is a protestant or a catholic".

    It is true that several anglo-irish familys down south were targeted and had their grand houses burnt down but this was because they were seen as part of the british establishment and they were in many cases MP's or army officer's.


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    #95
    man1
    Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭man1


    Shutuplaura wrote:
    Yeah, that little nuggett has been harder to track down than I thought, I remeber reading it in a book years ago - Eamon O'Maille's Book on the IRA, tried to find it on amazon but I couldn't so perhaps I have the authors name wrong

    Or Ernie O'Malley???


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    #96
    vesp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭vesp


    man1 wrote:
    It is true that several anglo-irish familys down south were targeted and had their grand houses burnt down but this was because they were seen as part of the british establishment and they were in many cases MP's or army officer's.

    Its also true that several Jews were were targeted in Germany during WW2, but this was because they were seen as part of the non-Ayran establishment and they were in many cases exploiting Ayran germans.


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    #97
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,352 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    man1 wrote:
    I know about him (and Ronnie Bunting) , but he was (a) not in the period that you stated (1919-1921) and (b) not in the IRA and (c) was not part of an exclusive "protestant brigade".
    how has a suggestion of a protestant company (120 men) morphed into a protestant brigade (4,000 men).


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    #98
    man1
    Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭man1


    Victor wrote:
    how has a suggestion of a protestant company (120 men) morphed into a protestant brigade (4,000 men).

    Fair enough Victor.
    Protestant company then!!!! (don't know the correct figures for brigades, companys, units etc)
    But still.......120 protestant IRA men in a belfast IRA company????????
    Do you think this was true?


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    #99
    Dontico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭Dontico


    vesp wrote:
    a Protestant company in the IRA is about as believeable as a Jewish company in the SS or a black company in the KKK.

    actually the KKK do.


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    #100
    vesp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭vesp


    About as likely as a company of Jewish men in the SS. At least the SS was an army and did have army structures.


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    #101
    Dontico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭Dontico


    vesp wrote:
    About as likely as a company of Jewish men in the SS. At least the SS was an army and did have army structures.

    you should probably start a thread with poll asking if people think the SS were better than the IRA. nice suits but evil people.


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    #102
    vesp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭vesp


    Dontico wrote:
    you should probably start a thread with poll asking if people think the SS were better than the IRA. nice suits but evil people.
    The point was not about their suits or if the SS were evil people. Of course they were evil people....some in the SS were more evil than others of course.


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    #103
    Shutuplaura
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭Shutuplaura


    Hey vesp, ever hear of Godwins Law?

    About the Protestant company in belfast, t wasn't Ernie O'Malley for definate and I'm pretty sure it wasn't Ed Maloney but I can't find it so I guess I can't use it as an example. I don't think it was completely unlikely though. At a time when there were catholic unionists and protestant socialists sectarian background may not have wholly determined ones political outlook.


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    #104
    csk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭csk


    Shutuplaura wrote:
    Hey vesp, ever hear of Godwins Law?

    About the Protestant company in belfast, t wasn't Ernie O'Malley for definate and I'm pretty sure it wasn't Ed Maloney but I can't find it so I guess I can't use it as an example. I don't think it was completely unlikely though. At a time when there were catholic unionists and protestant socialists sectarian background may not have wholly determined ones political outlook.

    Maybe you're thinking of the Republican Congress, that had a decent amount of Protestant republicans from the north, some even from the Shankill Rd. iirc it split from the IRA in the 1930's and went onto clash with them at a Bodenstown march for having banners that were deemed too socialist.


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    #105
    vesp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭vesp


    Victor wrote:
    how has a suggestion of a protestant company (120 men) morphed into a protestant brigade (4,000 men).

    Whoever thinks 120 let alone 4000 Protestants were in a division of the Belfast IRA has obviously never met too many Belfast Protestants and asked them about the IRA. Sure there a some Protestants who were / are extremist Republicans ( members of terrorist group etc), but they were very much a minority. There are some Roman Catholics who are unionists - 25% of the Catholic population of N. Ireland according to one survey wish to remain part of the UK.


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    #106
    csk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭csk


    Shutuplaura wrote:
    Hey vesp, ever hear of Godwins Law?

    About the Protestant company in belfast, t wasn't Ernie O'Malley for definate and I'm pretty sure it wasn't Ed Maloney but I can't find it so I guess I can't use it as an example. I don't think it was completely unlikely though. At a time when there were catholic unionists and protestant socialists sectarian background may not have wholly determined ones political outlook.

    I came across a reference to a Protestant company of the IRA in Belfast during the 1940's in a book called The Provisional IRA by Patrick Bishop and Éamonn Mallie the other day, maybe that was what you were thinking of ?


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    #107
    Shutuplaura
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭Shutuplaura


    Thanks the one - Thanks for that, I thought I was going mad there!


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    #108
    vesp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭vesp


    csk wrote:
    I came across a reference to a Protestant company of the IRA in Belfast during the 1940's in a book called The Provisional IRA by Patrick Bishop and Éamonn Mallie the other day, maybe that was what you were thinking of ?

    lol lol lol

    Is that why DeValera executed some IRA men during the 1940's then ? ( which he did do ). Did he think they were prods ? ( after all, DeValera had shown his colours a bit by condoning job discrimination against protestants during one of his Dail speeches, no less ). lol lol.


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    #109
    Shutuplaura
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭Shutuplaura


    lHa Ha!! Some reaction! Well said vesp, you got me there anyway! brilliant point, well made!


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    #110
    vesp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭vesp


    Thanks. On a more serious note, having been to Belfast on a good few occassions, I do not think "a Protestant company of the IRA in Belfast during the 1940's" would have been very likely. It would have been about as likely as a Jewish company operating for Bin Laden.


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    #111
    geekGirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭geekGirl


    by the way, didn't some hardline zionist organisations try get support from nazi germany during the war for their own fight against the british mandate in palestine?!! not exactly a SS company full of jews but it goes to show...


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    #112
    Shutuplaura
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭Shutuplaura


    Well if you've been to belfast you must be right then.


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    #113
    Mick86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Mick86


    vesp wrote:
    lol lol lol

    Is that why DeValera executed some IRA men during the 1940's then ? ( which he did do ). Did he think they were prods ? ...

    As it happens one of the IRA men executed in the 40s was a Protestant. George Plant by name, executed in Portlaois March 5th 1942 for murder.


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    #114
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    geekGirl wrote:
    by the way, didn't some hardline zionist organisations try get support from nazi germany during the war for their own fight against the british mandate in palestine?!! not exactly a SS company full of jews but it goes to show...

    At one stage the Nazi policy on the "jewish question" was to have them emigrate and so they worked with some Zionist groups to send a large number to Palestine yes...


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    #115
    vesp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭vesp


    brianthebard wrote:
    At one stage the Nazi policy on the "jewish question" was to have them emigrate


    Can you provide a link to such a "policy" ? Maybe attacks on their property etc ( Kristelnacht ) to deporting them to the Concentration camps was just a policy to help them emigrate ?


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    #116
    vesp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭vesp


    geekGirl wrote:
    by the way, didn't some hardline zionist organisations try get support from nazi germany during the war for their own fight against the british mandate in palestine?!!.

    No. No Jews got much positive military or other support during the war from the Nazis for anything, as far as I am aware. If they did, please specify more and preferably a link.


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    #117
    luckat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭luckat


    What on earth is this loopy linking of Protestants to Jews? Different situation entirely!

    In the history of Irish republicanism, 'Dissenters' (Protestants who were not Church of Ireland) always played a large part.

    By the way, how on earth would anyone *know* how many Guards were Protestant or Catholic? It's surely a private matter that wouldn't be written down on forms to do with your work! Is there a man with a clipboard going around asking them?


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    #118
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,352 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Its probably on their personel files if injured / killed in the course of duty.


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    #119
    luckat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭luckat


    If you're interested enough, ask on the Work forum; the Guards and would-be Guards seem to hang around there.


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    #120
    Aedh Baclamh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 864 ✭✭✭Aedh Baclamh


    The SS were evil people? :D


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    #121
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    vesp wrote: »
    DeValera had shown his colours a bit by condoning job discrimination against protestants during one of his Dail speeches, no less .

    I know this is an old thread, Vesp but it was associated with a newer one so I just jumped on for a look.

    You have on at least three occasions here claimed that De Valera said during a Dail speech that he condoned discrimination against Protestants in matters of appointments.

    I would love to see the Dail record which shows this. Given that they are all online now, it should be possible to link to it. Can you remember exactly what he said so I can do a search? Or the month/year in which he said it? Or the topic that was being debated? Maybe you have the link yourself.

    Do tell. I'm really interested.


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