Heroin addict released from prison

Diogenes

havana wrote:

Um, the chemist supervises it!

What? Seriously. What? Are you really suggesting a chemist supervises it? What he/she ensures the addict opens the methadone in the chemists, and swills it down, in front of other customers? What if the addict refuses and insists he's taking it with him? What if the addict get violent? No bloody chemist would agree to this fúcking absurd suggestion. A chemist gives you details of what the prescription is, and what the instructions are, no chemist has the right to supervise drug intact, and I'd love to see you provide a shred of evidence to support this inane claim.

And while I'm sure they do what they can to move people onto GPs etc (and why shouldn't they) GPs are only allowed a certain number of patients each, as are chemists, so one has to leave the system at the other end in order for that to happen. Just one of the reason why you can wait months to get on to a methadone clinic.

What? Honestly again what? Chemists are only allowed a "certain number of patients"? So you're telling me I cannot go into any chemist and get my perscription for asthma drugs filled, because on the off chance a chemist is full?

The reason you have to wait months to get on a methadone program is because there aren't enough places, period end of discussion.

JC 2K3 wrote:

No, by that rational Volkswagons are cars originally developped by the Nazis. There's a difference.

No..... see if something is developed by nazi's for the use of the nazi party then its developed by the Nazis. For example the V2 is a Nazi party. Methadone on the other hand was developed by two German chemists (not members of the Nazi party) during the reign of the Nazis, therefore its' not the same. But this is semantic quibbling. I'll say it again, the claim that methadone is a Nazi drug is propaganda spread by Scientologists to promote their cause and their opposition to the use of pharmacutials.

havana

Diogenes wrote:

What? Seriously. What? Are you really suggesting a chemist supervises it? What he/she ensures the addict opens the methadone in the chemists, and swills it down, in front of other customers? What if the addict refuses and insists he's taking it with him? What if the addict get violent? No bloody chemist would agree to this fúcking absurd suggestion. A chemist gives you details of what the prescription is, and what the instructions are, no chemist has the right to supervise drug intact, and I'd love to see you provide a shred of evidence to support this inane claim.


What? Honestly again what? Chemists are only allowed a "certain number of patients"? So you're telling me I cannot go into any chemist and get my perscription for asthma drugs filled, because on the off chance a chemist is full?

.

Apologies if I wansn't clear enough- GPs, depending on their level of training, are only allowed to presribe methadone to a cetain number of people. And the same applies to chemists.

Odysseus

Just to make a few points from someone who has worked in various treatment and rehab settings for ten years. Addiction is a complex issue and methadone is merely a opiate substitute, it is not a cure. Meth treatment in Ireland was introduced in relation to reducing crime and addressing fears in relation to HIV, moreso than treating the addict.

Meth treatment in Ireland can be viewed from two areas, Addiction Treatment Centres and GPs who provide treatment for addicts, those both are very similar. For a person to enter treatment they must firstly prove they are opiate dependent, this usually happens at a Treatment Centre. Once the start treatment they attent daily no take aways, dose is supervised by the pharamctist. In order to gain take aways TAs the person must provide heroin free urines, for each month of clean urines a TA is given. This is the general rule, exceptions may be made. Similar with a community GP the client generally collects the script and and the pharmacist supplies that, it could be daily supervised or a weekly script depending on the individuals progress, but at least one dose is supervised.

As I said addiction is a complex issue, some people present merely from free meth, others to change their lives, some abuse the system, as well as the staff, others don't. Is meth sold on the streets yes, however, do all addicts sell it no. Do some give false urines, yes, though it is hard to do this in a treatment centre as samples are supervised, but yes people put a lot of thought into doing this so sometimes people get away with it.

The biggest problem with treating opiate addicts is poly-drug use, the biggest problem over the years that I have experienced is benzo use on heroin use.

havana

http://www.dohc.ie/publications/pdf/methadone_review.pdf?direct=1

Old article pre protocol - http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=629380&issue_id=6279

Click the first link...

http://www.ipu.ie/index.php?searchword=methadone&option=com_search&Itemid=

Terry

regarding large bottles of methadone; i have sat in a pub with a heroin addict who produced a large bottle in front of me and told me what it was. it was about the size of a large bottle of cough medicine. i was informed that were i to drink some of it, that i would be dead within minutes as i have never taken heroin. they are available. i have seen it with my own eyes.

on the subject of legalisation of heroin, i once again ask the question 'where do you draw the line on who is given prescribed heroin?'

finally, might i once again make the suggestion that economic sanctions be placed on the countries of origin of these drugs until the relevant governments tackle the problem on the ground there.

Terry

chamar wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz

don't post in this thread again, unless you have something useful to add.

Odysseus

julep wrote:

regarding large bottles of methadone; i have sat in a pub with a heroin addict who produced a large bottle in front of me and told me what it was. it was about the size of a large bottle of cough medicine. i was informed that were i to drink some of it, that i would be dead within minutes as i have never taken heroin. they are available. i have seen it with my own eyes.

Yes it sure will, 50mg will kill a non-tolerant adult. The guy who produced it could be on a weekly TA, or he could have brought it. What we don't know here is whether he is a stable client deserving of a TA, or one who has managed to do the system, if you get my point.

Terry

he was actually prescribed it and he was trying to come off heroin at the time. that was 7 or 8 years ago though and he now still completely fooked up on heroin.

Diogenes

havana wrote:

Apologies if I wansn't clear enough- GPs, depending on their level of training, are only allowed to presribe methadone to a cetain number of people. And the same applies to chemists.

So we're clear the majority of addicts are treated outside of clinics and take their methadone unsupervised?

julep wrote:

finally, might i once again make the suggestion that economic sanctions be placed on the countries of origin of these drugs until the relevant governments tackle the problem on the ground there.

The major problem is this. Care to guess the country of origin for the majority of the world's heroin? Drumroll please, Afghanistan!

Yes Afghanistan, where once the Taliban proscribed the growing of poppies, they now actively encourage it as a major source of financing for their war aganist the Americans. War lords on the American's side also grow a far bit, but simply put, the Americans need their help and support and aren't going to quibble about a few poppy fields.

Meanwhile this is expected to be a bumper year for poppy fields. It's a bit difficult to enforce enconomic sanctions on a country who's only real export is heroin, and an enemy thats busy, lobbing mortars at your base, and murdering your translator's family.

Terry

so we can blame george bush for this one too? cool.

seriously though, pressure needs to be put on the american government in order to get them to force the... screw it. they don't listen to anyone.

there is still the golden triangle and crescent. picture.

havana

Diogenes wrote:

So we're clear the majority of addicts are treated outside of clinics and take their methadone unsupervised?

.

No- not the case. You asked me for evidence I gave you some. Can you back up your claims that 'the majority of addicts are treated outside of clinics and take their methadone unsupervised'


'At the end of December 2004, a total of 7,301 clients were receiving methadone treatment, 4,800 clients at specialist treatment centres and 2,501 clients from general practitioners.' from

http://www.hrb.ie/display_content.php?page_id=24&press_release_id=112