Heroin addict released from prison

Degsy

exCrumlinBoyo wrote:

You don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to withdrawal from heroin. I have seen people literally pull their hair out for a fix of gear. Comparing it to flu like symptoms… man you are very much not aware off what heroin addiction is like my friend. Get with the program…

So dying sick is bad?Of course it is,nobody's saying otherwise..its up to them to cope with the pain and sort themselves out.

slipss

Well seeing as this is a thread about drugs I guess I'll have to add my usual obligatory post. Like Julep and Degsy(was clean but appears to have relapsed) before me I have a strange compulsion to post in these threads, maybe its a form of addiction? I don't know.

Anyways I just want to make a couple of points about the thread in general.
To the people that asked why junkies can't get clean in prison as opposed to residential and outpatient treatment centres. It isn't really to do with the services not being available or accessible in prison, they are, or an unwillingness on the part of said junkies. The problem lies in the fact that prisons are full of heroin dealers and heroin addicts. The dealers obviously will do everything in their power to prevent junkies getting clean inside because it relieves them of customers, and the other junkies (some, not all) don't like to see their fellow junkies getting clean either because that reduces the number of people they can do smack with, borrow needles from, and scrounge off in times of need.
Also prison can be a very depressing place as you can imagine, and depression can be a major factor in junkies continuing to use heroin and also relapsing once clean. Also if you have a long sentence nothing makes the time go quicker than constantly being out of your mind on H, as strange as that sounds. Add to that the "peer presure" factor that contributed to many junkies using heroin in the first place, and the fact that often junkies are the only people that will exept each other as equals, and the need to fit in or to have friends inside that makes long prison sentences just about bareable and prison becomes an extremely difficult place to kick a heroin habit.

Secondly, a few people (Trotter and I think two others whose names escape me at the minute) expressed the opinion that a drug dealer is a drug dealer, whether they sell a small bit of hash to their mates or a tonne of heroin. Ok that might be exagerating your point a bit but you know what I mean. The implication that all drug dealers are the same. That all they care about is themselves and they couldn't give a sh1t about anyone. I feel compelled to disagree. Drug dealers are individuals the same as anyone.
Some are the scum of the earth, they will happily put pressure on or tempt a 13 year old to start taking heroin and get them addicted with no regard or remorse for what it will do to the person or the people around them.
On the other side of the coin there are drug dealers for instance that only supply thier freinds with the drugs they would be doing in anyway. They do not profit greatly from this, and at the forefront of their efforts is the will to provide thier friends with clean, safe drugs. They do not sell to children, they will not readily supply someone who they know who is developing a serious habit, and they would do everything in their power to beat some sense into that person. Of course both those examples are extremes to some extent and most dealers lie somewhere in between.
Now I know that people here will refuse blindly to believe that the second type or drug dealer there exists and will probably respond to that by screaming (or rather typing) hypocrite, and many other unsavoury slanders on my person. Or will try to say I don't know what I'm taking about. But I know personally these kinds of people (although I'm prone to sudden bouts of memory loss, should ugly balding men in cheap suits and with Kerry accents happen to read this) and they do exist and they are far more common than you may want to believe.

Black Swan

Ever since the War on Drugs has been replaced by Bush for the War on Afganistan, Iraq, etc., etc., the war lords have been growing and harvesting bumper crops of certain flowery plants in Afganistan. Of course, the seeds from these plants are only to be used on your begals!

Chucky the tree

Degsy wrote:

Its a very good comparasin.The alco has alcohol in his sytem,the heroin addict has opiates in thier system..to give up you need to stop taking it.BTW,you dont get a "buzz" from herion..you get a "goof",and yes,methadone(or physeptone) DOES give you a goof and "holds" you till you get some heroin into y ou.A lot of the time they get a prescription for say,1000mls and they flog it outside the treatment centre and buy herion with the money.

The doctors in the methadone clincs supervise the patiants taking the methadone. They arent given a prescription that they trot down to the local pharmacy and get there methadone thre.


The amount of ****e you have talked in this thread has been unreal. Your posts should be moved to the the humour forum.

Wertz

Fair f*cks to her.

In related news, I see the dole christmas bonus is a suspect in the death of 6 or more Dublin smack addicts in the last week....with an apparent raise due in social welfare payments in tomorrow's budget, can we take this move as FF's new war on drugs? (ie, give the junkies enough cash to kill themselves with and bye-bye drug problem)

Degsy

Chucky the tree wrote:

The doctors in the methadone clincs supervise the patiants taking the methadone. They arent given a prescription that they trot down to the local pharmacy and get there methadone thre.


The amount of ****e you have talked in this thread has been unreal. Your posts should be moved to the the humour forum.

And now you're talking ****e..they can also get a prescription for what the call "take aways" which is a bottle that they buy in the chemist unsupervised and do whatever the hell they like with.Have you never seen them outside a methadone centre selling the stuff?Well take a trip down to pearse street before you start giving me crap.

Chucky the tree

Degsy wrote:

And now you're talking ****e..they can also get a prescription for what the call "take aways" which is a bottle that they buy in the chemist unsupervised and do whatever the hell they like with.Have you never seen them outside a methadone centre selling the stuff?Well take a trip down to pearse street before you start giving me crap.

Only in very rare circumstance can they get take aways. They dont get it every week.


Also, why would junkies by methadone? It doesnt give you a high. Surely they would just buy herion if they had no interest in getting off it?

JC 2K3

Chucky the tree wrote:

Only in very rare circumstance can they get take aways. They dont get it every week.


Also, why would junkies by methadone? It doesnt give you a high. Surely they would just buy herion if they had no interest in getting off it?

Emm.. It does give you a high.... It's a longer lasting high, but heroin addicts claim it lacks the rush heroin gives(although trials have been done and subjects were not able to differentiate between the two drugs).

Developed by the Nazis, in fact.

It's appparently a MUCH harder addiction to kick than Heroin, but needs to be taken less frequently.

So essentially, what methadone clinics do is get people off heroin and addicted to methadone.

Diogenes

It always fascinates me that some people will merryly wade into a conversation making bold pronouncements, presenting them as facts, when they are clearly talking out of their arse...

Chucky the tree wrote:

Only in very rare circumstance can they get take aways. They dont get it every week.

VHI wrote:

Methadone, which is still the more commonly prescribed drug, is administered daily in special clinics; LAAM stays in the system longer, so it is generally given only three times a week. In Ireland, methadone is used to try to keep addicts free from heroin. A special methadone maintenance programme has been set up in Dublin whereby the methadone is prescribed and dispensed through a variety of special clinics, general practitioner surgeries and pharmacies.

http://www2.vhi.ie/topic/narcotics

Also, why would junkies by methadone? It doesnt give you a high. Surely they would just buy herion if they had no interest in getting off it?

sigh....

Methadone is a sythetic version of heroin, of course it gets you high. It's effects are slightly different, it usually lasts longer, and isn't injected it is swallowed making it less dangerous and easier to describe.

There isn't a single accurate or true thing in your post.

Chucky the tree

Methadone, which is still the more commonly prescribed drug, is administered daily in special clinics; LAAM stays in the system longer, so it is generally given only three times a week. In Ireland, methadone is used to try to keep addicts free from heroin. A special methadone maintenance programme has been set up in Dublin whereby the methadone is prescribed and dispensed through a variety of special clinics, general practitioner surgeries and pharmacies.

Your point of these?


You cant just wonder into your local GP and ask him willy nilly for your methadone. Chances are you will have to be a regular and on the methadone treatment program a long time. Excact same with pharmacies.

ExoduS 18.11

JC 2K3 wrote:

Heroin needs to be regulated rather than prohibited.

In the words of the virgin mary... come again?

Chucky the tree

JC 2K3 wrote:

Emm.. It does give you a high.... It's a longer lasting high, but heroin addicts claim it lacks the rush heroin gives(although trials have been done and subjects were not able to differentiate between the two drugs).

Developed by the Nazis, in fact.

It's appparently a MUCH harder addiction to kick than Heroin, but needs to be taken less frequently.

So essentially, what methadone clinics do is get people off heroin and addicted to methadone.

i will admit i am surpised it gives them the same high as taking heroin. I thought it had a simliar effect to nicotine, in that it helps ease the withdrawl effects of heroin.


Also, how were the heroin addicts not able to differentiate between the two? Was the methadone given to them by injection?

JC 2K3

Chucky the tree wrote:

Also, how were the heroin addicts not able to differentiate between the two? Was the methadone given to them by injection?

They were both taken orally IIRC.

Perhaps it is due to the fact that methadone is nearly always taken orally and heroin addicts nearly always inject. Or maybe methadone simply doesn't give the same rush when injected.

Chucky the tree

JC 2K3 wrote:

They were both taken orally IIRC.

Perhaps it is due to the fact that methadone is nearly always taken orally and heroin addicts nearly always inject. Or maybe methadone simply doesn't give the same rush when injected.

taking the heroin orally would probaly explain why they felt the effects were similiar.

chamar

zzzzzzzzzz

Diogenes

Chucky the tree wrote:

Your point of these?

Um, what? You claimed last post;

Only in very rare circumstance can they get take away

I am pointing out that the majority of Methadone users are outpatients who get "take aways". It can lead to tradegies such as the child who died in scotland last year after swallowing his parents methadone he found in the kitchen.

You cant just wonder into your local GP and ask him willy nilly for your methadone. Chances are you will have to be a regular and on the methadone treatment program a long time. Excact same with pharmacies.

You can't just wander willy nilly into your GP and ask for any drug period. Be it Methadone, Steroids, Anti Depressants etc... However you came on this thread claiming that people didn't get methadone "take away". They do. It's the most common method for people who are on methadone treatment to be treated as an outpatient to have their drugs supply to come through a clinic, a GP or pharmacy, and to take it home with them.

JC 2K3 wrote:

They were both taken orally IIRC.

Can you provide a link to this study? Anything. I've not heard of it. Incidently Methadone was not developed by the Nazis it was developed by two chemists in Nazi germany. The claims that it was developed by the Nazis stem from its american name "Dolphamine", with some people claiming it was called this in honour of Adolf Hitler (aDolphamine etc). Interesting Scientologists often spread this lie.

Chucky the tree wrote:

taking the heroin orally would probaly explain why they felt the effects were similiar.

Please stop. Seriously. You're so far out of your depth you're in dangerof getting the bends. The actual physical effect of Methadone is a longer lasting, less intense earlier buzz. Heroin gives that kick whether injected, snorted, or smoked. I've not heard of it being, suspended into a liquid, and injested. Liqiud heroin is usually used just for tranport and then it is evaporated into a powder for injestion...

Incidently a cursory google of liquid heroin will lead you to a story about puppies implated with liquid heroin as a smuggling method... :mad:

havana

Degsy wrote:

And now you're talking ****e..they can also get a prescription for what the call "take aways" which is a bottle that they buy in the chemist unsupervised and do whatever the hell they like with.Have you never seen them outside a methadone centre selling the stuff?Well take a trip down to pearse street before you start giving me crap.

For the most part you don't get given take aways or moved on to a community based prescribing scheme until the clinic decides you are relatively stable on your methadone and consistantly giving clean urines. And many people who get their phy in the chemist are also supervised in their consumption.

skyhighflyer

She gets no sympathy from me. She can die for all I care... I feel sorrier for all the people who are addicted to heroin and who never had a chance in life. Their destiny was almost pre-defined from the crappy circumstances they were born into. She has parents to support her and is from a decent family and she still managed to get addicted to heroin. And that whole thing about her being given the heroin by an "authority figure" at 13?

It sounds suspiciously like BS. How many parents wouldn't find out about their kid being offered heroin?? Major **** up on their part if so but I think this tool is trying to justify her own stupidity...

/dons flame suit and leves thread

thebaz

skyhighflyer wrote:

She gets no sympathy from me. She can die for all I care... I feel sorrier for all the people who are addicted to heroin and who never had a chance in life.
/dons flame suit and leves thread

Thats a bit harsh , i thought she is from the inner city herself , she obviously came from a troubled background whethere rich or poor !.
The success rate for getting completly clean from heroin/opiates is less than 10% , so when an addict gets clean they should get support , regardless of social standing in society.
Apparently in Iran at the turn of the last century opium , which is the pleasure ingrediant in heroin, was legal.
Something like 70% of the population became addicted both rich and poor !

rubadub

thebaz wrote:

Apparently in Iran at the turn of the last century opium , which is the pleasure ingrediant in heroin, was legal.

heroin is derived from opium and is far more addicitve than opium on its own.
It was legal here too, as were the majority of "recreational" drugs. Drug prohibition is a relatively new thing compared to the long history of use people once enjoyed.

Cocaine was a popular stimulant around that time. You hear some people saying "did you know coca-cola used to have cocaine in it!", as though this is some shocking fact!, coca-cola is named after the plant that cocaine is derived from, coca. But coke still contains another stimulant drug, caffeine! and people feed it to kids without a second thought, maybe next century people will be saying "did you know coca-cola used to have caffeine in it! and people let kids drink it!". There is a huge stigma attached to illegal drugs presuming they must be totally evil and ever user cannot ever take them in moderation, they are all on the verge of overdose. Yet people have no trouble accepting that people can enjoy legal recreational drugs in moderation, yet some do use them to excess.

Chucky the tree

Diogenes wrote:

Um, what? You claimed last post;



I am pointing out that the majority of Methadone users are outpatients who get "take aways". It can lead to tradegies such as the child who died in scotland last year after swallowing his parents methadone he found in the kitchen.

The outpatients have been regulars with the Methadone clincs for a long time before they are outpatients. The way it was portrayed on this thread it would leave people to believe that methadone was handed out to anyone who asked a GP for it. You will need to be a long time regular before you are given permission to get your methadone from your GP or pharmacy.

Since when do we live in Scotland?

Diogenes wrote:

You can't just wander willy nilly into your GP and ask for any drug period. Be it Methadone, Steroids, Anti Depressants etc... However you came on this thread claiming that people didn't get methadone "take away". They do. It's the most common method for people who are on methadone treatment to be treated as an outpatient to have their drugs supply to come through a clinic, a GP or pharmacy, and to take it home with them.

I should of made by point more clearly, but i rushed it and didnt. I apoligise. Again only regular drug patients will be allowed take-aways. New patients will be made take their methadone infront of the doctor in the clincs. They will supervise it. They will not be freely granted take-aways.

Unless you agree that Methadone patients are given 1000mls of methadone a day unspurvised?!

Degsy

Chucky the tree wrote:

The outpatients have been regulars with the Methadone clincs for a long time before they are outpatients. The way it was portrayed on this thread it would leave people to believe that methadone was handed out to anyone who asked a GP for it. You will need to be a long time regular before you are given permission to get your methadone from your GP or pharmacy.

Since when do we live in Scotland?



I should of made by point more clearly, but i rushed it and didnt. I apoligise. Again only regular drug patients will be allowed take-aways. New patients will be made take their methadone infront of the doctor in the clincs. They will supervise it. They will not be freely granted take-aways.

Unless you agree that Methadone patients are given 1000mls of methadone a day unspurvised?!

So when you said i was talking "****e",you were wrong,because you didnt know any better?

Diogenes

Chucky the tree wrote:

The outpatients have been regulars with the Methadone clincs for a long time before they are outpatients.

I'm sure you'll be able to give me a link to support that. I'm sorry if I sound skeptical of person who claimed methadone doesn't get you high a few posts ago.

The way it was portrayed on this thread it would leave people to believe that methadone was handed out to anyone who asked a GP for it.

Really? give me an example of post from someone on this thread who protrays it this way.

You will need to be a long time regular before you are given permission to get your methadone from your GP or pharmacy.

Again, fact, link evidence, anything?

Since when do we live in Scotland?

Scotland and Ireland's heroin detox program are remarkable similiar.

I should of made by point more clearly, but i rushed it and didnt. I apoligise. Again only regular drug patients will be allowed take-aways. New patients will be made take their methadone infront of the doctor in the clincs. They will supervise it. They will not be freely granted take-aways.

No sorry chucky you can backpeddle all you want but in black and blue you said;

Chucky the Tree wrote:

Only in very rare circumstance can they get take aways. They dont get it every week.

Also, why would junkies by methadone? It doesnt give you a high. Surely they would just buy herion if they had no interest in getting off it?

Two pieces of utter BS in one post.

You claimed that they don't get takeaways unless in rare circumstances, now you're claiming what you meant was that they don't get methadone starting off as an outpatient, but eventually they do.

If you want to admit you were mistaken in your first post fine. But don't try and pretend you were trying to say something that you clearly werent.

With respect you are still talking out of your arse, supervised methadone for the majority of addicts would require a GP to monitor them, as pretty much a full time job. Most heroin clincis outside major population centers have to do this, and it requires six visits to gp to get their drugs a week, and two for urine samples, a massive waste of resources, which most doctors oppose.

Don't believe me? Wander down to Pearse st dart center and watch the drugs superstore that exists with addicts selling their methadone.

Unless you agree that Methadone patients are given 1000mls of meth
adone a day unspurvised?!

No I don't.

You just made up that figure of 1000mls didn't you?

I'm just saying that because they don't measure drug dosage in "mls" they measure them in 'Mg". The amount of drugs that you're suggesting would kill several horses. The average daily dose ranges from 44mg to 120mg.

JC 2K3

Diogenes wrote:

Can you provide a link to this study? Anything. I've not heard of it. Incidently Methadone was not developed by the Nazis it was developed by two chemists in Nazi germany. The claims that it was developed by the Nazis stem from its american name "Dolphamine", with some people claiming it was called this in honour of Adolf Hitler (aDolphamine etc). Interesting Scientologists often spread this lie.

Well, by the same company(IG Farben) that manfactured the gas for the gas chambers in Nazi Germany, essentially making it a "Nazi Company", which I think makes it ok to say it was developped by the Nazis. Also, I've read several accounts that one of the reasons Methadone being developed because Nazi leaders who were heroin addicts couldn't access heroin during WW2(although I kinda doubt this). It says that oon this site and also refers to the blind trials I mentioned earlier: http://www.clearhavencenter.com/substance-abuse-treatment-resources/methadone.php

Chucky the tree

Diogenes wrote:

I'm sure you'll be able to give me a link to support that. I'm sorry if I sound skeptical of person who claimed methadone doesn't get you high a few posts ago.

I gooled for methadone clincs in Dublin but they didnt have a link detailing the way they treat patients. You suggesting every new patient is written a perscription for it and allowed take it by themselves straight away?

Diogenes wrote:

With respect you are still talking out of your arse, supervised methadone for the majority of addicts would require a GP to monitor them, as pretty much a full time job. Most heroin clincis outside major population centers have to do this, and it requires six visits to gp to get their drugs a week, and two for urine samples, a massive waste of resources, which most doctors oppose.

Methadone clinics in Dublin dont supervise any patietns taking methadone? I think they do.

Diogenes wrote:

No I don't.

You just made up that figure of 1000mls didn't you?

I'm just saying that because they don't measure drug dosage in "mls" they measure them in 'Mg". The amount of drugs that you're suggesting would kill several horses. The average daily dose ranges from 44mg to 120mg.

Degsy wrote:

A lot of the time they get a prescription for say,1000mls and they flog it outside the treatment centre and buy herion with the money.

Degsy

Chucky the tree wrote:

I gooled for methadone clincs in Dublin but they didnt have a link detailing the way they treat patients. You suggesting every new patient is written a perscription for it and allowed take it by themselves straight away?





Methadone clinics in Dublin dont supervise any patietns taking methadone? I think they do.

Well,you're wrong as usual.I allready explained about "take aways",somebody on 90ml a day would go through a 1000ml bottle fairly rapidly.A lot more rapidly if they were flogging it to thier mates(as they do).If you're strung out on banging heroin up,the physeptone you get from the doctor is a very poor substitute and they prefer to flog it and buy injectable gear instead.

havana

Users do NOT get given takeaways for quite a while - and will have their consumption and urines supervised for quite a while. No I don't have any links but I know how the system works.

The methadone protocol restricts how methadone can be prescribed and by whom. GPs have to recieve training before they join the scheme and there are 2 levels which determines the amount of patients a doctor can have. For the most part users are stabalised in clinics before being linked in with a GP.

Obviously the system here is not perfect (in fact its fairly cr*p) and like everything is open to abuse- of course phy gets sold on the street, but it is still fairly well controlled.

Diogenes

JC 2K3 wrote:

Well, by the same company(IG Farben) that manfactured the gas for the gas chambers in Nazi Germany, essentially making it a "Nazi Company", which I think makes it ok to say it was developped by the Nazis. Also, I've read several accounts that one of the reasons Methadone being developed because Nazi leaders who were heroin addicts couldn't access heroin during WW2(although I kinda doubt this). It says that oon this site and also refers to the blind trials I mentioned earlier: http://www.clearhavencenter.com/substance-abuse-treatment-resources/methadone.php

By that rational, volkswagons are a nazi car. The drug was invented as a sythnetic replacement for heroin. It was invented in 1937 when there was no war so it's doubtful it was created for Nazi leaders (whether the amount of nazi addicts to heroin justified such a experiment) as mentioned, scientologists spread alot of crap about nazis.

Also with respect, what is the scientific merit of performing the pepsi challenge with methadone with addicts.

Chuckythetree wrote:

I gooled for methadone clincs in Dublin but they didnt have a link detailing the way they treat patients. You suggesting every new patient is written a perscription for it and allowed take it by themselves straight away?

Again chucky this is nice and all, but I was originally posting to this comment by you;

Only in very rare circumstance can they get take aways. They dont get it every week.

You're now claiming that I'm suggesting that everyone walks into the clinic announces they're an addict, and gets a load of methadone. I'm not. I only responded to your orginial claim that addicts get a "take away" in exceptional circumstances. If you feel like shifting the goalposts fine, whatever you need to feel good about yourself, but the fact remains that the above rebuttal has nothing to do with your original point.

Methadone clinics in Dublin dont supervise any patietns taking methadone? I think they do.

A couple of posts ago you "thought" that methadone didn't get you high so you'll pardon me I don't think your "thoughts" on drugs treatment in this country aren't worth much.

havana wrote:

For the most part you don't get given take aways or moved on to a community based prescribing scheme until the clinic decides you are relatively stable on your methadone and consistantly giving clean urines. And many people who get their phy in the chemist are also supervised in their consumption.

Um how is something that the addict gets from a pharmacy in the chemist, the addict then takes this to where? A GP? A clinic? What we just assume the addict doesn't swig some on the way? Or claim he got mugged and lost it, and ask for a Re-Up?

Truthfully if you don't think hard pressed inner city drug centers don't do everything in their power to deal with the overwhelming flood of addicts, by occasionally shoving an addict who isn't a 100% clean, into a outpatient clinic to make room for another patient, or that an addict cannot fake providing clean urine?

JC 2K3

Diogenes wrote:

By that rational, volkswagons are a nazi car

No, by that rational Volkswagons are cars originally developped by the Nazis. There's a difference.

havana

Diogenes wrote:

Um how is something that the addict gets from a pharmacy in the chemist, the addict then takes this to where? A GP? A clinic? What we just assume the addict doesn't swig some on the way? Or claim he got mugged and lost it, and ask for a Re-Up?

Truthfully if you don't think hard pressed inner city drug centers don't do everything in their power to deal with the overwhelming flood of addicts, by occasionally shoving an addict who isn't a 100% clean, into a outpatient clinic to make room for another patient, or that an addict cannot fake providing clean urine?

Um, the chemist supervises it! And while I'm sure they do what they can to move people onto GPs etc (and why shouldn't they) GPs are only allowed a certain number of patients each, as are chemists, so one has to leave the system at the other end in order for that to happen. Just one of the reason why you can wait months to get on to a methadone clinic.