Heroin addict released from prison

thebaz

Degsy wrote:

There's a lot of people who take "e" would disagree with that.Its not something you take every day,you wouldnt need to steal to afford it and it hasnt been shown to have any long-term affects on your intelligence when used sensibly.

E is targeted at the young , and is made in back street chemists , so god knows what goes into its ingrediants. Maybe pure mdma is ok , but thats not whats sold on the street . Anyway long term ecsatsy usage , can cause a lot of depression . I guess no drug is safe as long term canabis smoking, particularly skunk, can also cause personality disorders -- i havn't smoked a joint in years , as i found i was getting very paranoid from it -- its not to say others can't enjoy it , a bit like booze -- not everyone who drinks becomes an alcoholic.

Odysseus

I have worked in various treatment and rehad settings over the years, the girl would have gotton good medical treatment whilst in prison, so her orginal story of escaping custody and staying at large because she would not get treatment, I don't buy. AFAIK from the papers she was already recieving treatment, there maybe be problems with services in Ireland, however, if a person wants to change they will. My opinion is that she was using the media to try avoid the consequences of her actions, and the media fell for it.

Wertz

Man I hate having to disect posts but I can't let this one slide:

Trotter wrote:

Oh please stop with the "Use boards to pick a fight to vent" rubbish.. I've never seen a case publicised on TV and the media like that so if it brought the problem clearer into my mind then its a good thing. DONT question my motives in bringing it up. I have as much sympathy for anyone in this mess as I said in my first post below... Read it....

Firstly, no-one is picking a fight or argument...I posted in reply to the whole thread as it stood at that point and called it as I saw it. Nothing more.
I read your OP, the impression I got from both it and subsequent replies were what I responded to...

Trotter wrote:

Dont assume that I am middle, upper or lower class... because you dont know!! You also dont know anything about me in terms of my views on "classes".

TBH I could care less what class you put yourself in...I assumed nothing, I took your OP at face value. Stop being condescending; I'm not one of your students.

Trotter wrote:

We're all human and anyone using this tragic drug is in my view a tragedy. Im so sick of people using boards to pick arguments that arent warranted or asked for just to p*ss off the OP.

Like I said, not picking arguments, just stating an opinion...the post wasn't trollling, it's how I felt at the time I posted it. It's how I still feel.
I apologise if you take personal offence to that, but I won't recant.

Trotter wrote:

Now.. back to the original point.. I hope it highlights the problem more, and that those with their hands on the purse strings, and the Gardai, can come up with a strategy to rid us of this problem.

I really don't see what's so special about this case...the girl certainly isn't the first from a non-lower/working class background to end up strung out, she probably won't be the last....the media see a good story with some great shock value (especially the photos) and run with it...her pretty face and her apparent "good background" is used to deepen the tragedy and generate more column inches.
Is that a bad thing? Well yes and no; it increases awareness in higher social classes apparently, but on the other hand for how long have we seen similar cases simply ignored, countless deaths from ODs, infections, etc. never getting any mention....all these addicts lambasted for the criminal scum they are when they get thrown into chokey....what makes this girl so different?

I have the opinion that if anything, someone like this should be made an example of, as harsh as that may sound given her current medical condition (re; arms)....coming from this "good background" she should surely have the education to know better, and even more applicable, that same background presented her with many more opportunities and chances in life than the usual victims of heroin addiction (given their lower class backgrounds and associated problems.).

Carnivore wrote:

I guess the persumption is that she's never attacked someone, stolen, or dealt drugs to feed her habit.

So she was in court for parking fines?
No, ~60 counts of shoplifting...not anywhere near as bad as jumping a shop counter with a syringe but still a crime and a lot of them.



BTW someone's probably mentioned it already (though I doubt many of the papers have) but her arms and the damage to them are solely down to heroin that's been cut with some nasty sh*t and perhaps from reusing syringes; unadulterated heroin is not poisonous to the body.
Ironically, it's the very fact that heroin is illegal that has indirectly caused her collapsed veins and subsequent infections.

Tha Gopher

Wertz wrote:

So when it's some "scumbag" or "skanger" from a council estate or high rise, they can rot in jail, but when they're from " what you would consider a decent family" it's suddenly a tragedy, scourge of drugs etc. ?
These forums sicken me sometimes...or rather the attitudes on them do.

Enough!

Sorry but all this pity them their junkies, fcuk them.

*goes into Francis Begbie from Trainspotting mode*

The only ones I have sympathy for were those who got in on it in the early 80s. People who hadnt a clue what it would do because they barely ever heard of the stuff before bar maybe from watching The Godfather. But people who grew up in Dublin in the 80s and 90s, who saw what it did to people, and still used it, feck them tbh. You have to remember that an awful lot of junkies arent good kids who get caught up in something bad and have no way out. A great deal are the utter scum of the earth, who despite the warnings didnt care as long as they got their deadly buzz bud. And where do you think many of todays junkies got their first look at a bag of heroin? Im willing to bet doing deliveries back in their teens, and curiousity got the better of them. Despite what the media say, heroin isnt particularly easy to find. If I decide tonight "im going to try heroin" it would involve me spending the evening walking around the area searching for anyone who looks strung out who could help me. The stereotype of medallion wearing gangsters parked outside the national schools at 3 is just that. Are kids even doing it in great numbers anymore? I know of maybe 2 or 3 I was in school with who are regarded to be on it, but Id say these days coke has really overtaken it as the "lets get fcuked up 24/7" drug of choice.

Diogenes

Tha Gopher wrote:

If I decide tonight "im going to try heroin" it would involve me spending the evening walking around the area searching for anyone who looks strung out who could help me. The stereotype of medallion wearing gangsters parked outside the national schools at 3 is just that..

I assume you mean the stereotype is a myth and not a stereotype.

Heroin is still quiet easy to get and I've been offered it by solicitation while waking down the quays in broad daylight.

Wertz

Tha Gopher wrote:

Enough!

Sorry but all this pity them their junkies, fcuk them.

At what point did I display pity?
The quoted comment was aimed at the misbalance of media attention and seeming public opinion involving this case.
I never said people from lowclass or underclass upbringings are angels, nor that they have a good excuse for becoming heroin addicts...but they're certainly more in the firing line than someone like the girl in this case.

Do you honestly believe that heroin addiction is something that the "scum of the earth" set out to accomplish?

My name is Mud

This whole shabang with this girl is shock tactics, similar to the road safety campaigns we have. I reckon by sprawling the pic of her arms all over the place could affect some younger kids, and get the right message through.

In saying that, aint the road safety campaign working a treat?

JC 2K3

peepsbates wrote:

how is it normal to wake up each day shaking for a fix?

They take one CLEAN hit per day and function as normal for the rest of it.

julep wrote:

the reason they steal to support their habit is because they are too out of it to hold down a proper job and earn the money to support their habit.
heroin becomes their life. it's all they think about.

See above.

Gandhi

I recently heard an interview with Kevin Smith, where he talked about Jason Mewes' ("Jay" from "Jay and Silent Bob") heroin addiction. He said that for years, he (Smith) and their other Hollywood buddies would book Mewes into these fancy clinics in Beverly Hills to try to get him off the smack. Within a few weeks he'd be back on it again.

About two years ago, Mewes got caught for some crime in New Jersey, and the judge threw him into some sh!thole NJ Prison System rehab centre in the arse-end of Newark. Apparently, he hasn't gone near drugs since. His attitude was "no f**kin' way am I going back there again". Tough love approach seemed to work for him.

The interview is buried somewhere in this podcast somewhere if anyone's really interested:
http://media.libsyn.com/media/prestonandsteve/PnS0626.mp3

Trotter

Wertz wrote:

Stop being condescending; I'm not one of your students.

Thats unfair. I wasnt being condescending at all. I was making a point. What has my profession got to do with anything? Why single that out? I only responded to your post because I felt you twisted my motive in posting it. The core thought I had about the whole thing was how it brought the scourge of heroin, in ALL its users regardless of class, into my mind in a big way. I didnt once say damn the poor addicts, lets help the "normal" ones. I dont see any difference.. a person on heroin is a person to be pitied, helped, and their actions treated with distain. I believe that help should come in prison presuming they have broken laws which effect others. (Theft, robbery etc.)

Wertz wrote:

I apologise if you take personal offence to that, but I won't recant.

I appreciate your point of view, and actually agree with much of it! I felt your original post was a bit of an attack having not read my original post as it was meant. The " I'm not one of your students " one is a cheap shot to be honest. Ive a job the same as you, Im sure yours dosnt come into your posting on boards, and even if it did, I wouldnt make reference to it like that.

Aaanyway.. lets not fall out about it. You've mentioned a lot that I fully agree with. Regardless, this case, whether it be a media thing or not, has brought the problem into my mind and made me think a lot about it. That, in my opinion is a good thing.

I also think we cant jump to conclusions about how this girl first used heroin. In the early teens, people can "over trust" adults or authority figures to the point that it has awful effects on them. Im keeping that in mind in this case.

Wertz me oul flower, keep up the good work I hope this post clarifies the earlier ones. No hard feelins!

Wertz

Okay fair enough, shouldn't have slipped that bit in (although I did feel I was being spoken down to). Ironically enough I end up venting after being accused of it in the post I was replying to.

...blame it on the heat and a 12 hr day.

Trotter

Wertz wrote:

Okay fair enough, shouldn't have slipped that bit in (although I did feel I was being spoken down to). Ironically enough I end up venting after being accused of it in the post I was replying to.

...blame it on the heat and a 12 hr day.

No small break for you tomorrow.. and I want your homework journal signed by your parents.





Im wondering though, does anyone actually have any info on what this girl or her family have said about her "introduction" to heroin? I think I read somewhere when the article was in the Indo originally that she had taken E and someone told her to smoke some of the heroin they had to make her come down from it. I may be completely mistaken there though.

Id be interested in figuring out what can make a young person, who should know that this is a bad bad thing, still go ahead and "try" it.. especially in this case. I mean how many other addicts would be accompanied by their family to court? Is this the exception and an indication that her background may not be as "rough" as in other cases?

Collie D

I'd say the answer to how she got into it is one word: Stupidity

We all know that heroin is a ****ing nasty drug and most people wouldn't touch the stuff, although having said that it's on my list of things to do when the doctor says I've got six months to live

There is no reason why anyone should stick a needle in their arm and say they didn't know the consequences of heroin abuse. There comes a point in a person's life where they have to stand up and take responsibilty for their actions. I've mentioned this on another thread but will say it again. I smoke, I know it's bad for me and I was an idiot to start but if I develop lung problems in later life it's my own fault, not society's or the newsagent that sells my cigarettes.

These junkies (call a spade a spade) should get treatment but I'm sick of hearing some solicitor trying to condone a junkie's crimes with their addiction. Fair enough, this girl was done for shoplifting which is at the lower end of the crime scale but what about the scumbags who beat up little old ladies or hold up shop staff with syringes? Bang them up and give them treatment inside because they are quite obvioulsy a danger to society.

Having said all that, heroin addiction must be an awful thing to get over and fair play to anyone who gets their life back on track after it.

JC 2K3

Collie D wrote:

Bang them up and give them treatment inside because they are quite obvioulsy a danger to society.

Or prescribe them clean heroin. It's doubtful they'd commit any more crime, the health risks would be significantly less and the addicts would have their lives stablised. And it's easier to give up a habit when your life is stable.

Collie D

JC 2K3 wrote:

Or prescribe them clean heroin. It's doubtful they'd commit any more crime, the health risks would be significantly less and the addicts would have their lives stablised. And it's easier to give up a habit when your life is stable.

Can see where you're soming from with the whole regulated heroin thread but they are still not going to be fully integrated into society. I mean, I wouldn't want somebody who was stoned on smack to be driving my bus to work every day. They couldn't possibly hold down a job

Terry

JC 2K3 wrote:

Or prescribe them clean heroin. It's doubtful they'd commit any more crime, the health risks would be significantly less and the addicts would have their lives stablised. And it's easier to give up a habit when your life is stable.

that's fair enough, but where do you draw the line?

do you only give it to registered addicts, thus helping them to quit, or do you continue to give it to any addict who registers over the years, therefore making it easier for someone to go and get ****ed up on heroin knowing htat a way out is only a doctors visit away?

JC 2K3

Collie D wrote:

Can see where you're soming from with the whole regulated heroin thread but they are still not going to be fully integrated into society. I mean, I wouldn't want somebody who was stoned on smack to be driving my bus to work every day. They couldn't possibly hold down a job

Why not? The effects of heroin wear off after about 4/5 hours. Surely they could routinely do their hit at night before bed and be fine during the day.

julep wrote:

that's fair enough, but where do you draw the line?

do you only give it to registered addicts, thus helping them to quit, or do you continue to give it to any addict who registers over the years, therefore making it easier for someone to go and get ****ed up on heroin knowing htat a way out is only a doctors visit away?

It's debatable. Doctors could simply prescribe it as they would any medicine based on their educated opinion. If they diagnose a dependancy on heroin then they prescribe it.

Although you could take it a step further and allow doctors to prescribe it to non-addicts after informing them of the risks etc. This cuts illicit dealers totally out of the equation.

IMO they should give the first thing I suggested a trial run. If it turnns out that heroin addicts CAN indeed hold jobs and become decent members of society then introduce the second part. Some people want to take heroin, you might disapprove of it, but c.30 years of a war on drugs has proved that you can't stop/discourage them by banning it. You can regulate it and make it safer for them however and stop the crime it creates.

Terry

i don't agree with your take on regulation at all.
we already have a problem with alcohol in this country. do we really need another legal drug for people to take and then go driving? and don't try to tell me people don't already do that.
legalising it is basically condoning its use and it's a highly addictive drug that people don't really need to be using.

i concede (begrudgingly) on the regulation of it for current addicts, but i don't think it should be given to anyone who isn't already addicted.
if it was to be given to addicts in the morning, then they should all come forward, present themselves and be given their medication. anyone after that can go and fu(k themselves.

JC 2K3

julep wrote:

i don't agree with your take on regulation at all.
we already have a problem with alcohol in this country. do we really need another legal drug for people to take and then go driving?

They won't go driving on heroin, we're talking lying on the ground and incapacitated here.

julep wrote:

legalising it is basically condoning its use and it's a highly addictive drug that people don't really need to be using.

People don't need to be doing a lot of things, but I believe in free will. And I don't understand the legalising=condoning mentality. Laws are there too protect us, and heroin(and other drugs) being illegal isn't exactly protecting anyone is it?.

julep wrote:

i concede (begrudgingly) on the regulation of it for current addicts, but i don't think it should be given to anyone who isn't already addicted.

Once again, free will. Some people WANT to do heroin. Foolish? Perhaps, but it's most likely the best high humans are capable of feeling and you only get one shot at life. People who want to do it will get it anyway, just it'll be dirty and expensive..... which leads to crime...

Terry

to hell with free will. laws are there for your protection.
if i choose to kick the crap out of you, leading to you being hospitalised for months and losing an eye or something, would you still believe in free will?*
you have to draw the line somewhere and that line has been drawn.

yes, some people disagree with where the line has been drawn, but they are free to voice their complaints to their local td.



*not that i would or could. just an example.

Grimlock

Dragan wrote:

Now don't get me wrong, I enjoy my odd spliffs just as much as the next guy, but am well aware that to do so is illegal. Should I ever be picked up with something on me then is my bad and I will take the wrap.

This is where I have a HUGE f**king problem with the complete hypocriticalness of this great wee country.

Dragan wrote:

Do I rob people to support my "habit"? Nope, not at all.

No but I do see you and people like you paying money to dealers, the same dealers who sell heroin.

The fact is that everyone is willing to throw in their 2 cent but none of ye are willing to take information to the police about a dealer, none.

Even if the dealers are caught the penalties aren't high enough. There is very little fear that a dealer will get caught and even if they do it's not like they'll get the book thrown at them.

As for the girl involved, I don't think it a class issue I think people see a girl who seem to genuinely want to quit, and she's got the support of a loving family, so I think she deserves a chance, for the family as much as her. I think any user deserves the help and support needed to quit should they ask for it.

The logistics aren't mind boogling; no dealers means no drugs mean no addicts.

Trotter

Grimlock wrote:

This is where I have a HUGE f**king problem with the complete hypocriticalness of this great wee country.

No but I do see you and people like you paying money to dealers, the same dealers who sell heroin.

The fact is that everyone is willing to throw in their 2 cent but none of ye are willing to take information to the police about a dealer, none.

Even if the dealers are caught the penalties aren't high enough. There is very little fear that a dealer will get caught and even if they do it's not like they'll get the book thrown at them.

As for the girl involved, I don't think it a class issue I think people see a girl who seem to genuinely want to quit, and she's got the support of a loving family, so I think she deserves a chance, for the family as much as her. I think any user deserves the help and support needed to quit should they ask for it.

The logistics aren't mind boogling; no dealers means no drugs mean no addicts.

I have to say I agree. I get frustrated when I hear people say.. oh I only smoke hash, I dont do anything worse than that. In a sense, it is very close to the heroin "industry" because its often coming to Ireland in the same containers and with the same smugglers.. and besides, eventually the twenty euro someone gives to a dealer for hash can be seen to be going up the line into the hands of the people who are shooting each other and selling heroin on a massive scale.

I dont see taking heroin and taking cannabis as in the same league, but theres no difference in the people that sell them.

havana

Degsy wrote:

Heroin addicts are the most selfish people on earth and amongst the most convincing liars.they would say mass to get back on the streets and get some more gear into them.All they need to do is stop taking it..sure its hard and there are withdrawal symptoms but its no worse than a bad dose of flu.They're not sick,people with cancer are sick and they cant stop it any time they like,addicts can and there are no excuses.

Ther is more to withdrawing from heroin than just the physical symptoms- for most people they are managable. Its the pyscological withdrawels and dealing with the issues that may have caused you to use in the first place that are the hardest part!

Jumpy

Right, there are a lot of very ill informed people making comments on this thread.
First some things to clarify.

Methadone - Methadone is equally addictive to Heroin, it DOES give you an effect and it is incredibly difficult to shift an addiction.

Addiction - For those that say "It was their choice to take the drugs" you are right and wrong, firstly you shouldnt judge by the fact that they are currently a heroin addict, most cases do not start that way, they start by a mix of depression and addictive personality, and as often as not a starting addiction to prescription medication. For the others its peer pressure and a misguided and immature trust in a person/persons who you consider to be "Alpha"
i.e. If you were 13 years old and heard of all the bad things about heroin from the television or people you didnt have 'direct' contact with, and then a cousin or brother or someone with direct trust told you that it isnt as bad as all that, then your idea of the bad effects of the drug would be severely lessened.
Once you are into addiction and the depression that it causes, then generally you will be unable to face life as it used to be and require a substance to make it less real. Generally a person deep in addiction will take ANYTHING that will give them a sense of non realism or well-being. It requires the mental state of an addictive personality to become a full addict. Some people can take heroin and not become mentally addicted, but its VERY rare and the physical withdrawals will still occur.

I really cant deal with people who write addicts off because they were the cause of their own situation. Some sympathy is required for those that are so deep in their own despair that they have to drown out life.

I have done a lot of looking up over the years on this subject due to first hand experience to a person very close to me.

thebaz

Trotter wrote:

I dont see taking heroin and taking cannabis as in the same league, but theres no difference in the people that sell them.

I would say those selling heroin have no morals , whereas those selling cannabis are selling a product , which does not kill , or in most cases leads to a life of misery. Alcohol abuse possibly causes more problems than canabis -- what i'm saying those that sell heroin , are the lowest of the low - in a word scum . p.s. i know canabis has side effects , but there minimal when compared to heroin .

Trotter

thebaz wrote:

I would say those selling heroin have no morals , whereas those selling cannabis are selling a product , which does not kill , or in most cases leads to a life of misery. Alcohol abuse possibly causes more problems than canabis -- what i'm saying those that sell heroin , are the lowest of the low - in a word scum . p.s. i know canabis has side effects , but there minimal when compared to heroin .

Its not the effects of the individual drugs that leads me to rate the dealers. Its the fact that all of the money paid for any illegal drug is funding the criminal gangs who buy weapons to shoot each other and eventually more innocent people will be shot as a result.

Alcohol is different because it is legal and regulated and dosnt result in the purchase of illegal weapons by pub owners. (usually ) I know that brings up the whole regulation of cannabis but thats a whole other discussion.

A dealer of illegal drugs is a yes or no box to tick.. theres no in between in my view.

thebaz

The heroin addict with the rotting arms has made a terrific recovery , judging by recent photos, she has apparently kicked heroin and due to model for Cosmo , write a book and seams to be on the right path -- i for one wish her well , and it offers hope to other less fortunates .

Naked Lepper

Trotter wrote:

It struck home to me how anyone can be swallowed into the murky world of drugs.

The level of drug-ignorance on this forum absolutley astonishes me.

Trotter

Trotter wrote:

It struck home to me how anyone can be swallowed into the murky world of drugs.

Naked Lepper wrote:

The level of drug-ignorance on this forum absolutley astonishes me.

Why does it astonish you? What is it about what I said that is so bad? I live in an area where hard drugs are not a major problem (I hope it stays that way). Im delighted that you have so much knowledge on the matter, and fair play to you. Why stick your nose up at people who arent as aware of the problem as you?

I dont know anyone who ever saw, never mind took heroin.

SO.. You're criticising me for becomming more aware of the problem and learning about it? Does it matter how I become more aware of it once I do learn from it?

It also astonishes me how people twist things in order to write inflamatory statements on the internet..

exCrumlinBoyo

Degsy wrote:

Heroin addicts are the most selfish people on earth and amongst the most convincing liars.they would say mass to get back on the streets and get some more gear into them.All they need to do is stop taking it..sure its hard and there are withdrawal symptoms but its no worse than a bad dose of flu.They're not sick,people with cancer are sick and they cant stop it any time they like,addicts can and there are no excuses.

You don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to withdrawal from heroin. I have seen people literally pull their hair out for a fix of gear. Comparing it to flu like symptoms… man you are very much not aware off what heroin addiction is like my friend. Get with the program…