The Hazards of Belief

silverharp

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3492872/LSE-Islamic-Society-holds-segregated-event-veil-room-separate-male-female-students.html

he Islamic society at a top university has come under fire for holding a gala dinner where men and women were segregated from one another by a screen running down the middle of the room.
Muslim students from the London School of Economics had to buy separate tickets to the society's annual dinner depending on whether they were a 'brother' or a 'sister'.
When they turned up at the event, held at a banqueting hall in Central London, there was a large screen separating the men's tables from the women's ones, stopping the attendees from even looking at each other.

cowboyBuilder

Mother Teresa to be canonised

The RCCs warped morals continue as a woman who caused untold amounts of misery and poverty is to be made a "Saint" - whatever that means.



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35809891

Custardpi

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

Mother Teresa to be canonised

The RCCs warped morals continue as a woman who caused untold amounts of misery and poverty is to be made a "Saint" - whatever that means.



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35809891

I wonder if they considered the "devil's advocate" evidence against her which Christopher Hitchens presented at the time of her beatification process.

Nodin

Custardpi wrote: »

I wonder if they considered the "devil's advocate" evidence against her which Christopher Hitchens presented at the time of her beatification process.

recedite

Perhaps, but Hitchens' evidence which was given after the first miracle, was later undermined by a second one, The Miracle of The Brain Tumour, which M. Teresa performed posthumously, in 2008.

Thargor

recedite wrote: »

Perhaps, but Hitchens' evidence which was given after the first miracle, was later undermined by a second one, The Miracle of The Brain Tumour, which M. Teresa performed posthumously, in 2008.

Not sure if serious...

Custardpi

Thargor wrote: »

Not sure if serious...

She was credited with healing a Brazilian man's brain tumour. This apparently was enough to push her over the sainthood line.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-35129463

PopePalpatine

I'm waiting for the day when the RCC's support has plunged to unacceptable depths in Brazil and they decide to canonise Ayrton Senna to halt the decline. :pac:

Hotblack Desiato

Woodville56 wrote: »

Your post implies that the lives of people like the late Fr. Byrne are of no consequence to the faith communities they serve, meaning that their ministry hasn't touched people's lives in a positive and caring or healing way ?

It does no such thing.

But what is the average age of that faith community? In 10 or 20 years' time when the priest shortage will bite hard, how many active members will that community have?

Likewise those who want all traces of church removed from our constitution and public services

Why should a republic worthy of the name have religion given favoured status in its constitution, and allow churches to run public services and discriminate in the delivery of these services?

oscarBravo

Woodville56 wrote: »

But for those of us who do "keep the faith", we may well end up attending funeral rites like the one described in Jean Rohou's book, as quoted, a "back to the future" glimpse of early Christian communities for those of us who hang on perhaps?

My sister died in a road accident last year. My brother, father, and other three sisters are firmly atheist, but we asked her church to hold a funeral for her, because we believed it was what she would have wanted.

I'm confident that my family would be equally respectful in having a secular humanist funeral for me, should the occasion arise, but I'm probably one of the lucky few.

Hotblack Desiato

I'm sorry to hear that, oscarBravo.


............

On a totally different note,

Fidelma Healy Eames announces she is leaving politics

One eyed Jack

silverharp wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3492872/LSE-Islamic-Society-holds-segregated-event-veil-room-separate-male-female-students.html

One attendee even made a joke of the segregation, posting a picture of himself peering round the screen to talk to a female friend with the caption, 'Hello from the brothers side' - a reference to Adele's hit Hello.

Classic!!

Nona Buckley-Irvine, the head of LSE's student union and a self-professed feminist, attended the dinner and insisted that the atmosphere was 'comfortable and relaxed' despite the gender divide.

'I had a lovely time at the dinner and barely noticed the separation between men and women,' she told MailOnline.

Whatever about barely taking any notice of someone wearing the burqa, how the hell does one miss a 7ft veil?

'The event was hosted by both the brothers and sisters and I welcomed the opportunity to dine with my colleagues and friends in an environment that felt comfortable and relaxed.'

She added: 'Where groups would like to organise themselves in a way that fits with their religious, cultural and personal beliefs, both genders consent, and there is no issue I have no problem.

'It is not for me to decide what is right or wrong with our Islamic society and they are one of the most inclusive societies I have ever worked with.'

And I thought my own cognitive dissonance was spectacular... :pac:

volchitsa

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Classic!!

Whatever about barely taking any notice of someone wearing the burqa, how the hell does one miss a 7ft veil?

And I thought my own cognitive dissonance was spectacular... :pac:

Wow, that's seriously depressing (well the joke is kinda funny, but the other eejit who "barely noticed" the divide, I mean WTF??? I wonder does she think Islamic rules on wife beating are consenting and "inclusive" too?

130Kph

It’s all ok now, Nona has given this clarification?!?!

LSE Students Union wrote:

Media coverage has singled in on ‘segregation’. Voluntarily, the [Islamic] society had different seating areas for women and men in line with religious requirements.

This falls in line with the Equality and Human Rights guidance on gender equality and we are confident that there has been no breach of the law.

Custardpi

Since the dinner was not a religious meeting & was not held in a mosque, the separation of men & women would be a pretty conservative interpretation of "religious requirements" & would indicate that the university Islamic society has some hardcore views on relations between men & women which would by no means be universal among Muslims but which would be in line with Salafist & other extreme interpretations of scripture.

In a climate which actively encouraged the free expression & debate of ideas those interpretations would be challenged & critiqued, on secular grounds at least if not theological ones. It may be technically within the bounds of the law but is gender segregation something which should be encouraged by an institution of learning?

I assume that the society is an officially recognised one by the university & receives some funding, if that's the case there should surely be a reexamination of that recognition & whether it serves the best interests of students & the wider public. This is not to say that no one has the right to hold such backward views or to express them but should they be endorsed or excused to the extent which the student's union appear to be doing?

It's interesting to see the term "voluntary" being used as an excuse for segregation by a feminist in this context. I'm sure that no one pointed a gun or a machete or whatever at the women in attendance to teach them their proper place but social pressure, particularly if there's no challenge to it can be enormously powerful in getting people to conform & even persuading them that what's happening is beyond question.
Many feminists are happy to point this out when it comes to unrealistic portrayals of women in media or underrepresentation of women in some career types - no one forces women to dangerously undereat to look like airbrushed magazine models etc but many women & girls feel under enormous pressure when TV, magazines & online media is dominated by images of such "perfection". The effect may be exaggerated somewhat & may well downplay individual women's agency but if it's possible to make such an argument in a secular context why not also recognise that it can apply within a religious community?

If there is no real avenue for a challenge to the conservative interpretations of male/female relations promoted by the islamic society (is there an alternative islamic group promoting a more moderate line on campus for instance?) & if members of the society are being both shielded from alternative views ("safe space!") & enabled in their behavious by the SU then that "voluntary" behaviour cannot be said to be being made in a fully informed way. The structures at play within many religious communities (Islam is by no means unique in this of course, nor is it homogenous) is something which feminism to have any credibility at all should be rigourously examining & critiquing rather than tacitly excusing as in this case.

volchitsa

130Kph wrote: »

It’s all ok now, Nona has given this clarification?!?!

Talk about when you're in a hole! This is unbelievable - it's a religious requirement but it's voluntary? Presumably membership of the society is voluntary too, but that doesn't make it any less retrograde in its views on women. They're all perfectly entitled to believe that women are inferior beings who are sure to trouble men by their unbound sexuality if that's what their holy book tells them I suppose - but a so-called feminist doesn't have to condone that sort of mindset!

One eyed Jack

Good post Custardpi, but with regard to wider social structures, Ms. Irvine-Buckley is an example of individualism within an individualistic culture. That's why for some people, her identity as a Muslim feminist may appear to be something of a contradiction.

But it really shouldn't present any difficulty for someone who considers themselves a liberal leftie to be able to understand that people may identify with whatever ideology they wish, and interpret that ideology as they wish, and apply it to themselves as they wish.

The dinner attendants weren't doing anything contradictory to the social structures in the UK where they now live. They have that right in a liberal society to self-determination and self-identification. As volchista points out though - Ms. Irvine-Buckley might have a very different take on the matter if she were living in a society where she didn't have the freedom of self-determination and self-identification, and any deviance from obedience would earn her a smack in the tit.

Absolam

Sooo.... mandatory segregation is oppressive sexism, voluntary separation is enlightened freedom of association? Guess we can stop worrying so. I wonder what they had to eat.

One eyed Jack

Absolam wrote: »

Sooo.... mandatory segregation is oppressive sexism, voluntary separation is enlightened freedom of association? Guess we can stop worrying so. I wonder what they had to eat.

I'm guessing it wasn't bacon anyway. Possibly...

I'm told they're something of a delicacy! :eek:

Custardpi

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'm guessing it wasn't bacon anyway. Possibly...


I'm told they're something of a delicacy! :eek:

Jaysus! I'd forgotten how bad that film was when it came to representing Indian culture. Fair enough it's a movie which doesn't take itself too seriously & I'm certainly not a fan of getting offended on other people's behalf but seeing that scene now I'm struck by the arrogance of American film makers portraying the food of the sub continent as consisting entirely of giant cockroaches, monkey brains & eyeballs.

I'm sure there are parts (it's a huge region after all) where there's dodgy stuff on the menu but at it's best Indian cuisine is rich & varied enough to rival the great culinary traditions like French, Italian or Japanese. Even at its curry house worst it can certainly beat corndogs, twinkies, Wendys "burgers" & a host of other items on the US menu.

Pherekydes

Custardpi wrote: »

...I'm struck by the arrogance of American film makers portraying the food of the sub continent as consisting entirely of giant cockroaches, monkey brains & eyeballs.

How could you infer the entirety of Indian cuisine from a single movie scene?

Nodin

Pherekydes wrote: »

How could you infer the entirety of Indian cuisine from a single movie scene?

People who are culturally isolated might well do so, unfortunately. Though presumably they might have speculated that the size of the cockroaches were smaller for the less well off.

robindch

One outfit reckons that the USA's continued flirtation with religion is costing over $70 billion in lost tax revenue each year, and possibly substantially more:

https://secularpolicyinstitute.net/71-billion-reasons-to-tax-religious-organizations/

Nodin

robindch wrote: »

One outfit reckons that the USA's continued flirtation with religion is costing over $70 billion in lost tax revenue each year, and possibly substantially more:

https://secularpolicyinstitute.net/71-billion-reasons-to-tax-religious-organizations/

Presumably if they changed the law, a lot of them would discover their "irish roots" in a hurry.

pauldla

From patheos.com

This Self-Proclaimed Prophet Can Raise the Dead… for a Price

Manasseh Jordan Ministries is a 501(c)(3) public charity, and as such, the IRS doesn’t require Jordan to disclose how much he earns, nor does it collect taxes on the income. It’s enough, however, to fund a “lavish lifestyle” that includes multimillion-dollar homes and a fleet of luxury cars, according to the newest civil complaint filed against him.
And God is good. Jordan’s most current listed addresses include a $2 million luxury condo on Sunny Isles Beach and a $4 million waterfront mansion in North Miami Beach, Florida.

....

For $1,000 from “the Johnson family” in Texas, Jordan brought a woman named Glenda back to life. “When he got outside the hospital he called and said your mother that died a couple of hours ago came back to life,” he told a room full of believers.
Also in Texas, Jordan relayed the story of Kathy, who for $2,000, also came back to life after hearing the voice of the prophet.

Nice work, if you can get it.

Jordan’s own father, Bishop Bernard Jordan, is a “master prophet” known for inviting church members to litter church altars with dollar bills. At one event, he invited congregants struggling with financial hardships to raise their purses to the heavens, then open and speak into the empty billfolds, “Shift is happening.” The elder Jordan then demanded that to see the shift, an offering should be made, and $50 would do just fine. The parishioners lined up, the music swelled with women singing “Shower down, Lord,” some people made change, and to those for whom parting with such a sum might leave a grimace on their face, he reminded them, “God loves a cheerful giver!”

And the piece ends with a quote from Hitchens...

Shepherds don’t look after sheep because they love them — although I do think some shepherds like their sheep too much. They look after their sheep so they can, first, fleece them and second, turn them into meat. That’s much more like the priesthood as I know it.

robindch

Homeopathy product recalled over fears it may contain actual medicine

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/homeopathy-product-recalled-over-fears-it-may-contain-actual-medicine-9217206.html

Independent wrote:

A company making homeopathic remedies in the US has had to recall more than 50 different products from across its range after they were found to contain actual medicine.

Terra-Medica, based in Ferndale, Washington, promises to provide “a wealth of education and high quality health products [to] holistic health care practitioners across the US”. Yet in a series of tests by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA), it was found that a variety of tablets, capsules, drops and suppositories – with names like “Pleo-QUENT” and “Pleo-STOLO” – actually contained quantities of penicillin. The FDA said in a release on its website that Terra-Medica was “voluntarily recalling 56 lots”.

“FDA has determined that these products have the potential to contain penicillin or derivatives of penicillin, which may be produced during the fermentation process,” the agency said. “In patients who are allergic to beta-lactam antibiotics, even at low levels, exposure to penicillin can result in a range of allergic reactions from mild rashes to severe and life-threatening anaphylactic reactions.” The company has said on its website that the Pleo Sanum range are the original homeopathic medicines from Germany, and “provide a broad spectrum medical alternative that is not antibiotic or hormone based while effectively delivering acute and chronic care”.

Homeopathy was indeed invented in Germany, by the physician Samuel Christian Hahnemann (1755-1843), following dissatisfaction with the mainstream medical practices of the day. It involves the practice of massively diluting active ingredients with large quantities of water, and has since been extensively studied and conclusively debunked. A 2010 report by the Science and Technology Committee of the House of Commons found that homeopathic remedies are “scientifically implausible” and perform no better than placebos. That apparently hasn’t bothered Prince Charles, however, who last year was accused of lobbying Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt over use of the controversial alternative treatment.

looksee

...actually contained quantities of penicillin....these products have the potential to contain penicillin or derivatives of penicillin, which may be produced during the fermentation process...

So did they, or didn't they? And what fermentation process? What was being fermented?

robindch

Batman Christ shows up in Mexico. Or Guatemala. Maybe.

http://metro.co.uk/2016/03/29/jesus-falls-off-cross-during-easter-crucifixion-show-5782735/

recedite

Now he knows what the nails are for :pac:

If you're going to do a "passion of the christ", do it properly....with nails.

robindch

Diyanet, the Turkish Presidency of Religious Affairs, has released a cartoon book for kids:

http://www2.diyanet.gov.tr/DiniYay%C4%B1nlarGenelMudurlugu/DergiDokumanlar/Cocuk/2016/cocuk_nisan_2016.pdf

On page 4, the book apparently explains to children that religious martyrdom is a good thing. Google Translate doesn't do a great job with Turkish, but the text I've pushed through suggest that the translation in the Daily Fail (quoting RT) is broadly accurate.