The Hazards of Belief

silverharp

^^

Secular Talk did a piece that Pakistan is teaching extremism in public schools, apparently Jesus said its ok to be violent against Muslims

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SwUwYbgMtA

Thargor

Not a joke:

silverharp

I found the tone of voice noteworthy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khGukRaW5P0

robindch

Jesus' wounds manifest in a most catholic fashion on the Pacific nation of Samoa. On the hands, feet and forehead of a protestant woman. The nation is unsure of what to think.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35975137

silverharp

Men armed with machetes have killed a secular activist in Dhaka, the Bangladeshi capital, a police official said on Thursday, the latest in a series of grisly attacks on intellectuals and bloggers who have written critically about Islamists on social media.

Witnesses said a group of cleanshaven men surrounded Mohammad Nazim Uddin, a law student, and slashed his head, then shot him when he fell to the ground, said Syed Nurul Islam, the deputy commissioner of police for Wari, the area of Old Dhaka where the killing took place late Wednesday. Mr. Islam said the attack lasted less than a minute.

The victim’s Facebook page identifies him as a member of the Shahbag movement, which seeks to punish Bangladeshis who fought for Pakistan during the bloody 1971 war for independence.

In recent posts, Mr. Uddin had expressed support for a petition to remove Islam as Bangladesh’s state religion, and he had urged the government to take a tougher line with Islamist groups. In one post, he used a proverb to criticize the government’s approach to rising militancy, likening it to raising a baby snake by feeding it milk and bananas. ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/08/world/asia/bangladesh-secular-activist-killed-nazim-uddin.html?_r=2

Hotblack Desiato

^ But religion is all about peace and love, don't you know.

Sure didn't I see this on the back cover of the latest Barely Alive! during its brief journey from door to bin:


"STUDY FINDS SMACKED CHILDREN MORE SUCCESSFUL IN LIFE"

As long as you smack with love and the Good Lord guiding your hand, no doubt.

With what was going on here in the 50s - 80s Ireland's battered children should have been taking over the world :mad:

robindch

One elderly, unmarried man has asked other elderly, unmarried men for advice on marriage. The results of their deliberations will be issued today.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/pope-francis-to-make-defining-statement-on-family-1.2602520

Custardpi

It will be interesting to see which way it goes. The most sensible approach will probably be for him to lean conservative on these issues. In an increasingly questioning age people who are more relaxed on issues like gay marriage & sacraments for divorced couples are probably drifting away from religion (or at least traditional religions like Catholicism) anyway. Better in the long run to cut your losses with them & shore up support from the more conventional followers.

MrPudding

Custardpi wrote: »

It will be interesting to see which way it goes. The most sensible approach will probably be for him to lean conservative on these issues. In an increasingly questioning age people who are more relaxed on issues like gay marriage & sacraments for divorced couples are probably drifting away from religion (or at least traditional religions like Catholicism) anyway. Better in the long run to cut your losses with them & shore up support from the more conventional followers.

s. That's what we need, a smaller, more rabid church the puts more people off it faster. If I was in a club and you wanted me to leave the best way to do that would be to introduce me to someone like, hmmm, maybe someone that got a three month ban form the other forum, and tell me that this is the ideal club member and you wished we could have more like him.

MrP

silverharp

given what happened in Scotland recently , the Pakastani passport application has a very interesting declaration if you are Muslim :eek:

http://www.phclondon.org/consular/forms/manual_pp_etd_form.pdf

Adult Muslim, resident of
Declare that:-
a) I am a Muslim and believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of the prophethood of Muhammad
(peace be upon him) as the last of the prophets
b) I do not recognize any person who claims to be a prophet in any sense of the word or of any
description whatsoever after Muhammad (peace be upon him) or recognize such Claimant as a prophet
or religious reformer as a Muslim
c) I consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani to be an imposter nabi and also consider his followers whether
belonging to the Lahori or Qadiani group to be a non Muslim

Custardpi

Since General Zia came in Pakistan has been undergoing a process of islamisation, with the rights of minorities such as the Ahmadis deliberately abused. The appalling toll of terrorism such as that seen in Lahore recently can in part be blamed on an officialdom which on the one hand openly condones & promotes extremism (including through the education system) & on the other has to battle the inevitable results.

Hotblack Desiato

silverharp wrote: »

an imposter nabi

Why are these lads called after a kids' tablet?

silverharp

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Why are these lads called after a kids' tablet?

word for the day

Etymology
Arabic

نبي Nabi Prophet

recedite

.. he (Pope)announces in his Apostolic Exhortation Amoris Laetitia (The Joy of Love)

Is this "exhortation" a competitor to The Joy of Sex?
I suspect his new book may be turn out to be less appealing to the general public than its title might suggest.

Custardpi

recedite wrote: »

Is this "exhortation" a competitor to The Joy of Sex?
I suspect his new book may be turn out to be less appealing to the general public than its title might suggest.

The Vatican, in their attempt to move with the communications climate of the times have clearly cottoned on to the power of clickbait titles.

Hotblack Desiato

'TEN INCREDIBLE FACTS ABOUT JESUS YOU SIMPLY WON'T BELIEVE!!!!!'

silverharp wrote: »

word for the day

It's also Korean for butterfly, which I am presuming is the meaning the tablet maker intended.

Or maybe it's transmitting subliminal koranic verse readings to my kids' brains while they sleep. Better check it out.

Hotblack Desiato

So it turns out the archbishop of Canterbury is, what was formerly a term of abuse, a bastard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Welby#Early_life_and_education

Perhaps his catholic church might now smile a little more benignly on those who cannot control the circumstances of their birth (i.e. everyone) but t'other catholic church certainly won't, and might even use it as a stick to beat the first-mentioned catholic church with.

One is catholic and the other is catholic but reformed.
My brain hurts.

recedite

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So it turns out the archbishop of Canterbury is, what was formerly a term of abuse, a bastard.

Would he have been as quick to publicise the results of the DNA test if it had been the other way round, ie if he had grown up as the son of Sir Anthony, but the alcoholic whisky salesman had turned out to be his biological father?

volchitsa

Very true.

I also can't help thinking about his poor mother being humiliated like that at her age. Telling everyone she slept with someone else the day before her marriage.

Custardpi

A couple of recent articles about people's experience of being in & leaving extreme religious communities. The first, which deals with the WBC, Hasidic Jews & Salafists is heartbreaking in how the interviewees describe being completely cut off from their families & former lives once they made the decision to renounce their faith. The second (which kind of reminds me of Donna Tartt's "The Secret History" in some ways) tells a tale of a search for spiritual knowledge led by a "charismatic" leader led to a dangerous cult mentality, psychological torture & in the end allegedly ritualistic sex & murder. Scary stuff.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/10/losing-my-religion-life-after-extreme-belief-faith

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/06/the-seven-signs-youre-in-a-cult/361400/

cowboyBuilder

My secret life as a gay ultra-Orthodox Jew

Chaya, not her real name, is an ultra-Orthodox Jewish woman who is gay. Here she describes her struggle to accept her sexuality, and why she has to keep it a secret from those who would make her choose between her identity and her family.

I would lose everything if I came out. We are a tightly knit community and I think few people realise just how isolated we are. In the world I live in, being gay is the equivalent of being a bad person. It's seen as an evil desire that is completely unnatural.
People I have grown up with would wonder what else I could be capable of. Few would believe that I could still be religious and if I did eventually leave the Haredi community it would mean losing my job, my home and potentially my children.

It's just easier for everyone to pretend that there is nothing different about me. In fact, most people prefer to act as though homosexuality does not exist.

I was still at school when I first tried telling a rabbi I was gay but all he said in response was: "It's just a phase, it happens to a lot of girls." .....

I was created like this with a plan, even if I don't know what it is yet. My faith has become a real comfort to me but it took me a long time to reach that point. My religion involves ritual, prayer, worship and acts of faith that are meaningful and I don't see why I should have to give that up.

full article - http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35978328



Amazing she still has faith, that ultra conservative religion denies what she is yet she still chooses to follow it.


Sad really.

PopePalpatine

Spain sacks their ambassador to Belgium for absenteeism, including leaving his workplace for Mass every day he actually showed up. Ignacio Matellanes claimed to be a member of Opus Dei, and wanted to be Spain's ambassador to the Vatican. 4 of the 20 staff at the embassy took time off for depression, claiming that Matellanes was a bully, and Matellanes was quite the misogynist too.

MrPudding

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2016/apr/11/why-ireland-must-get-rid-of-its-disgraceful-blasphemy-law

MrP

Custardpi

It should be noted of course that The Guardian, like many other Western news outlets are in favour of an unwritten voluntary anti-blasphemy code, one which the zealots of Pakistan & elsewhere no doubt approve of just as much as they do our ridiculous law.

silverharp

MrPudding wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2016/apr/11/why-ireland-must-get-rid-of-its-disgraceful-blasphemy-law

MrP

Its not something I followed , but was it designed to make it very difficult to bring a prosecution? has it actually been used or successfully used as a threat ? apart from our friend in Trinity who threatened all and sundry?

As it is countries like Britain and Germany seem to be getting on grand with their "hate" speech laws.

silverharp

Custardpi wrote: »

It should be noted of course that The Guardian, like many other Western news outlets are in favour of an unwritten voluntary anti-blasphemy code, one which the zealots of Pakistan & elsewhere no doubt approve of just as much as they do our ridiculous law.

remember Sky when someone tried to show a cover of Hebdo. :pac:

JPNelsforearm

MrPudding wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2016/apr/11/why-ireland-must-get-rid-of-its-disgraceful-blasphemy-law

MrP

"Nugent argued that the law was so “ridiculous and silly” that his organisation’s attempt to get prosecuted by publishing statements blaspheming all the major religions had been ignored."

LOL that they mentioned Atheist Ireland, they made a big song and dance about breaking the law, and then published the tamest, most inoffensive "blasphemy" they could. It amounted to little more than self promotion for AI imo.

MrPudding

Custardpi wrote: »

It should be noted of course that The Guardian, like many other Western news outlets are in favour of an unwritten voluntary anti-blasphemy code, one which the zealots of Pakistan & elsewhere no doubt approve of just as much as they do our ridiculous law.

Indeed. And something I dislike intensely.

silverharp wrote: »

Its not something I followed , but was it designed to make it very difficult to bring a prosecution? has it actually been used or successfully used as a threat ? apart from our friend in Trinity who threatened all and sundry?

As it is countries like Britain and Germany seem to be getting on grand with their "hate" speech laws.

I don't think it really matters. When Pakistan, or ant other country, is holding it up as a shining people of anti-blasphemy legal drafting I am sure they are saying "by the way, they apparently drafted it specially so it couldn't be enforced."

All that is relevant is that it exists and can be used by other nations to try to justify their oppression of their people, or calls for such laws to be more widespread.

When countries that are putting people to death for blasphemy are holding your law up as an example for people to aspire to, that is the point where you "have a word".

MrP

Hotblack Desiato

Worth listening to later when it goes online (if it goes online) - CRAZY edition of Liveline today with Fr Brian of Alive!!!1!, "Lena" a deraged sounding lady defending whacking kids with sticks, a psychotherapist discussing masturbation, and at the end a mother of a lesbian and "Lena" rowing over "sodomy"

robindch

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

"Lena" a deraged sounding lady defending whacking kids with sticks, a psychotherapist discussing masturbation, and at the end a mother of a lesbian and "Lena" rowing over "sodomy"

Sounds like a fundamentalist's wet dream - their own violence and other peoples' sex.