Docklands Station (Design and Construction)

DerekP11

aliveandkicking wrote:

Now if we had a decent opposition in this country they would already have spotted this and grilled Cullen on it.

and again.

Me thinks the next election will reveal just how much the electorate don't actually care about public transport. Despite all the moaning, all they really care about is the cash in the bank at the end of a Mon to Fri nightmare. Thats why the opposition are useless and thats why the Government get away with all this baloney. Ireland can look forward to car domination, grumpy citizens and a very very complacent electorate.(including self-absorbed politicians.

It takes two to tango.

delog

Hi guys,
I was browsing thru the archiseek board recently and someone went to a DDA meeting and got some dates. Looks like 2010 is the expected completion of a lot of things including the LUAS. So it's not 2008 or 2009...unfortunately..

Navan Junction

This may be one of the few projects completed in it's projected timeframe then..?

Navan Junction

They are working saturdays at the moment - apparently it has to be ready and open for March.

The pace of development is impressive.

http://www.meathontrack.com/Dublin_Docklands_station.html

Slice

If the Spencer Dock spur bypasses Drumcondra could a second Drumcondra station not be built or even further down at Croke Park so that area is also serviced by this line?

markf909

apparently it has to be ready and open for March.

Why the March deadline?
Election related?

Sarsfield

markf909 wrote:

Why the March deadline?
Election related?

That's what the SBP hinted at today. Surely not? Our leaders don't do things like that!

MarkoP11

April in fact is the quoted date by IE

strassenwolf

Slice wrote:

If the Spencer Dock spur bypasses Drumcondra could a second Drumcondra station not be built or even further down at Croke Park so that area is also serviced by this line?

The following was kindly posted up by Victor in another thread.

Docklands Station

The left hand line of the two red lines at the top of the map does actually travel through Drumcondra Station. It doesn't look like it would be impossible to put down a small amount of track to enable trains to travel to/from Docklands via Drumcondra.

Obviously, it wasn't considered a favourable option, or it would surely have been done. But what is the problem? Is it the lie of the land, or is it related to cost? Or some other factor, perhaps?

Anyone know?

daymobrew

strassenwolf wrote:

Obviously, it wasn't considered a favourable option, or it would surely have been done. But what is the problem? Is it the lie of the land, or is it related to cost? Or some other factor, perhaps?

It could have been a red tape/timing issue. The track to the Docklands station already existed so Irish Rail probably had less red tape to go through (with Dept of Transport) and was able to build this station quickly.

BTW, at Joan Burton's Transport meeting in Littlepace (near Clonee), we were told that the Docklands station would open on 12 March 2007.

murphaph

strassenwolf wrote:

But what is the problem?

CIE property/Government (whoever) signed a deal with the devil, erm, I mean Treasury Holdings and you can expect a bunch of apartments on that short stretch of track alignment that would have made the station eminently more useful (for Kildare Line passengers who could have used the Phoenix Park Tunnel). It stinks.

Winters

http://www.spencerdock.ie/about.asp

DerekP11

murphaph wrote:

CIE property/Government (whoever) signed a deal with the devil, erm, I mean Treasury Holdings and you can expect a bunch of apartments on that short stretch of track alignment that would have made the station eminently more useful (for Kildare Line passengers who could have used the Phoenix Park Tunnel). It stinks.

Spot on.

We intend routing some Kildare line trains through the Pheonix Park Tunnel to Spencer Dock. There would be demand for that.

Above quote delivered to the Oireachtas Transport Committee in 2004 by Joe Meagher, former MD at Irish Rail, now at Dublin Bus.

The existing site made it impossible to connect to the "upper" line via Drumcondra, to the Pheonix Park Tunnel, due to platform lengths. No matter what way you look at it, property development came before public transport and the money spent on the temporary station isextremely poor value for money. We must also consider the possibilities that the tunnel route, with services, provided. It could have served new stations at Blackhorse avenue and Cabra. T21 provides for no use of this route and despite on the record assurances from IE, they don't give a toss either. They appear to be worse than the KGB and Im convinced from my experiences, that they run the railway for their benefit and not the customer.

Victor

strassenwolf wrote:

The left hand line of the two red lines at the top of the map does actually travel through Drumcondra Station. It doesn't look like it would be impossible to put down a small amount of track to enable trains to travel to/from Docklands via Drumcondra.

What the map doesn't explain is that the line from Drumcondra to Docklands is quite steep as it passes under the Northern Line and would then need to go into a tight double turn.

I would love to see it happen though, seeing as you could simply arrange for all PPT trains to go via the Midland line, albeit this would miss Drumcondra.

CIE (not IE) are saying they want to keep the site for the Interconnector and that the deal with Treasury Holdings only kicks in when the site stops being used for the railway.

Slice

DerekP11: No matter what way you look at it, property development came before public transport

Well I suppose if they change their mind they could always just CPO it

verbatim

Its great that they are building the new station so quickly, its quite rare that a taxpayer funded project is ontime.

What really annoys me though is how disconnected the network will be. I usually get the Maynooth train to get into the city centre. So if the new station is 10 min away from Connolly, its 20 min from O'Connell St. I might as well just get a bus, which will take longer, but which will drop me at a reasonable destination. Will there be a bus route from Spenser Dock to the city centre while the LUAS extension is being built?

MarkoP11

Given all Maynooth services that currently serve Connolly and Pearse will continue to do so thats a non issue

And the 90 bus will serve Heuston O'Connell Street IFSC Docklands

daymobrew

verbatim wrote:

I usually get the Maynooth train to get into the city centre. So if the new station is 10 min away from Connolly, its 20 min from O'Connell St.

The DTO Journey Planner says that it is a 17 min walk from Docklands to the Spire. You should be easily able to do it in less than 15 (the walking and cycling speeds on the Journey Planner are quite slow). As the train bypasses Drumcondra and won't be held up by DARTs coming into Connolly, your door-to-door time (including 15 mins walk) might be unchanged. And you'd get 30 mins of healthy walking in for free. AFAIK the new Docklands services are starting at Clonsilla.

Of course, as MarkoP11 pointed out, existing services are not being affected, so you won't have to change your destination.

Enigma365

I used to live in NCI(far end of IFSC), and it was 10 minutes walk to pearse from there. So I would say a max of 15 minutes walk from this new station to Pearse. To O'Connell street would be at least 15 minutes walk and to Connolly would be about 7 or 8 minutes.

Its not ideal, but I guess as a temporary solution, its better than just waiting for the more permanent solutions.

Navan Junction

More photos taken yesterday to go up tomorrow hopefully..

D'Peoples Voice

markf909 wrote:

Why the March deadline?
Election related?

It just might, and i say might, have something to do with the fact that in April there are several hundred employees moving into the new offices being built down there. But that might just be a coincidence!

Navan Junction

Updated photos:

http://www.meathontrack.com/Dublin_Docklands_station.html

casey jones

Having used Connolly recently and being a rare visitor and in a rush, I found the signage is terrible. I entred via the IFSC but there are no signs indicating where to go for DART, (never mind northbound/southbound), Dublin suburban etc. Just signs for platform 6,7 etc. Then there is a sign for "Rail Link" which points you out the door onto Amiens Street where you will find a sign for Croke Park and a busy road. :eek: I went back in to see was I just dreaming at the end of a busy day but no, that's what it says.

I have managed to negotiate some of the busiest railway stations in the world but found Connolly baffling. If you're a visitor your lost. A pity because otherwise the station has improved out of all recognition.

Great to see the Docklands station going up. Hope the Kildare services run into it at a reasonable frequency. Can't see why they can't. Or am I missing something.

SeanW

No, Kildare trains will not use Spencer Dock I'm sorry to say IE screwed up: again.

The new station can only be accessed from the Midland Line. There is no direct path from the Phoinex Park Tunnel (the line from Heuston) to the Midland line and Spencer Dock. A train coming from the PPT would only be able to go via Drumcondra.

You can see the problem here:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=53.364177,-6.274266&spn=0.011882,0.028925&om=1

Follow the line out to the Royal Canal, the station will be right beside it about 200-300 meters North of Sheriff St.

casey jones

Interesting alright, would seem to be a small enough realignment to get the tunnel line to connect with the Midland line but that's just a laymans view. Would seem like a small enough investment compared to T21. Will the docklands station relive some of the pressure off Connolly to allow services via the Phoenix Park tunnel to terminate in Connolly ? I thought IE said something about a limited service?

SeanW

you probably could make a "double scissors" junction at Glasnevin, i.e. allowing the Maynooth and Park Tunnel lines to access either the Drumcondra or Midland lines, but that causes its own problems.

You would end up with a set of double-conflicts at Glasnevin Junction as PPT-Spencer Dock movements would get in the way of Sligo/Longford/Maynooth (Maynooth is to upgraded to DART by 2015 or earlier) trains going to or from the Drumcondra line, and so the frequency of everything would be hit dramatically. It's not a good idea at all.

In any event, the station is only temporary: it will have to go in 10 years anyway according to the Planning Permission and area development plans.

Victor

SeanW wrote:

You can see the problem here: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=53.364177,-6.274266&spn=0.011882,0.028925&om=1

The layout used to be reversed.

Navan Junction

The Docklands photos section has been updated on Meath on Track:

http://www.meathontrack.com/Dublin_Docklands_station.html

Flukey

Speed of delivery is improving, but planning is often still a bit crazy. Maybe in time they will be able to get the best out of what on the face of it are good ideas, if properly done.