Docklands Station (Design and Construction)

aido123

hey

I was half asleep listening to the radio this morning and i was full sure i heard somebody mention that transport minister has today given the go ahead for a new city centre station. Is this true anyone and if so have you got links for it, or perhpas the location and what the services it will service.

I believe i heard the docklands is this correct?

Winters

Not too sure what he was announcing, it's been released before.

Its 2 years ahead of T21 schedule. Detailed design has been completed on Spencer Dock surface station and IE are going to submit for planning permission this March and aim to start construction this year with completion sometime in 2007. Most Maynooth line services will terminate there and possibly some Kildare line services.

Untill the Luas is extended to the Point Depot it shall not offer much in terms of integration and will be further away from town than ever for the Maynooth commuter.

dmeehan

what did they actually announce, that it was going to happen or that work was going to start (i also only caught the end of the report)

???

MarkoP11

This is nothing new its been on the table for years. Should be open for December 2007 timetable change. Its fairly simple stuff. There will be no disruption to services while it is under construction

The station ia 3 platforms and is sited between Sherrif Street Bridge and the Quays. The entrance will be off the Mayor Street extension where Spencer Dock square is going. Luas stop outside entrance

It is assumed that Maynooth services will approach the station via the Midland line which was relaid in 2002 for this one purpose, that means skipping Drumcondra

Iarnrod Eireann have been on record as saying that some Kildare line services wil use the station also

Bluetonic

It was in the news as the first 'sod' was being turned today, there was no new announcement. Any talk of a new announcement is just typical 'tabloid' radio reporting.

Minister for Transport Martin Cullen has turned the first sod on the new Spencer Dock railway station due to be constructed in Dublin over the coming years.

The €30m facility, which is being built on the city's north docks, is the first railway station to be constructed in the city since Tara Street in 1890.

The station will be linked to the Maynooth and Navan line, as well as the planned extension of the LUAS network into the docklands area, one of the fastest-growing parts of the capital.

It is due to open in the middle of next year.

Meanwhile, speaking at the site of the station, Mr Cullen said he was not aware of any move by the contractors building the Dublin Port Tunnel to halve their claim for extra expenses incurred during the project.

Reports this morning claimed the contractors had initially sought an extra €444m, but had now reduced this figure to around €200m

However, Mr Cullen said a meeting on the tunnel was held last night and, as far as he understood, no new deal was put on the table.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2006/03/09/story248446.html

MarkoP11

All wrong of course

Budget is €60 million

Drumcondra 1901/1997, Glasnevin 1901, Grand Canal Dock 2000 have all been built since 1890

Andrew Duffy

Icidentally, the plan is to introduce extra Maynooth line services to Spencer Dock, presumably also bypassing Drumcondra. The ones currently going to Pearse will remain going there.

markpb

Probably true but the average person living in Dublin seems to consider the city centre an area running from O'Connell street to Stephens Green. A restaurant on Parnell Sq. North was described as being "in a remote location outside the city centre" in a newspaper only a few weeks ago.

Charles Darwin

Why are they bypassing Drumcondra? There's a line which branches off the Maynooth line between Connolly and Drumcondra and goes under the DART line. Going through Drumcondra would offer a lot more in terms of connections to buses. Broombridge directly to Spencer Dock and you miss the whole city.

Andrew Duffy

markpb wrote:

Probably true but the average person living in Dublin seems to consider the city centre an area running from O'Connell street to Stephens Green. A restaurant on Parnell Sq. North was described as being "in a remote location outside the city centre" in a newspaper only a few weeks ago.

Is that Chapter One? Was the article about how Ireland's Michelin inpector(s) either don't cross the river or don't actually exist?

Andrew Duffy

Charles Darwin wrote:

Why are they bypassing Drumcondra? There's a line which branches off the Maynooth line between Connolly and Drumcondra and goes under the DART line. Going through Drumcondra would offer a lot more in terms of connections to buses. Broombridge directly to Spencer Dock and you miss the whole city.

Not 100%, but the current track layout only allows access to the station (on the Western edge of the site) from the Midland line.

MarkoP11

The fastest and shortest route to Spencer Dock from the Sligo line is via the Midland line (the one under the Canal End of Croke Park).

If as IE have said in the past that some Kildare line services will operate to Spencer Dock they will by operating via Drumcondra. Operating Maynooth via the Midland line frees the capacity to make that happen. It should be possible to reach Spencer Dock via either route

murphaph

It'll be useful for many IFSC employees and even some people south of the river with the new pedestrian bridge (and hopefully the Macken Street Bridge will get moving) but not much use for anyone else if it bypasses Drumcondra. When Luas connects to it it'll be a lot more use but again, only if integrated fares are available. If this was anywhere else we'd all be saying "great, get train to Spencer Dock and hop on a tram for 5 mins to Jervis" or whatever but that isn't the case because we don't have an integrated system.

murphaph

It's just been on RTE news and they showed an artist's impression of the station. Interviewed Cullen and Lynch on site, usual stuff. Lynch said it'd be a 15 min peak service from Maynooth into Spencer Dock. Quick refernece at the end by the reporter to the Interconnector. She said "after this [Spencer Dock] station is complete, IE turn their attention to their biggest ever project, the €1.4bn Interconnector from here [Spencer Dock] to Heuston Station".

MarkoP11

murphaph wrote:

When Luas connects to it it'll be a lot more use but again, only if integrated fares are available. If this was anywhere else we'd all be saying "great, get train to Spencer Dock and hop on a tram for 5 mins to Jervis" or whatever but that isn't the case because we don't have an integrated system.

If you buy Maynooth to Heuston ticket its valid on the Luas and it costs the same if not slightly less than Maynooth Connolly plus a central zone luas ticket

Kildare Dublin City Centre is valid on the Luas and it costs the same if not slightly less than Kildare Heuston plus a central zone luas ticket

Its intergrated if you know how

Charles Darwin

Andrew Duffy wrote:

Not 100%, but the current track layout only allows access to the station (on the Western edge of the site) from the Midland line.

Would that be difficult to fix?

murphaph

MarkoP11 wrote:

If you buy Maynooth to Heuston ticket its valid on the Luas and it costs the same if not slightly less than Maynooth Connolly plus a central zone luas ticket

Kildare Dublin City Centre is valid on the Luas and it costs the same if not slightly less than Kildare Heuston plus a central zone luas ticket

Its intergrated if you know how

That's not integrated Mark. If it costs more to go from Clonsilla-Jervis than Clonsilla-Seapoint (the current cheapest single fare southbound available ex Clonsilla gets you that far!) then it's a rip-off plain and simple. It's an integrated ticket, not an integrated fare and besides, the RPA don't even allow this in reverse (you can't buy a Clonsilla single from a ticket machine on Jervis Street!). It's so not integrated.

Charles Darwin

MarkoP11 wrote:

The fastest and shortest route to Spencer Dock from the Sligo line is via the Midland line (the one under the Canal End of Croke Park).

If as IE have said in the past that some Kildare line services will operate to Spencer Dock they will by operating via Drumcondra. Operating Maynooth via the Midland line frees the capacity to make that happen. It should be possible to reach Spencer Dock via either route

Is there a shortage of capacity at Drumcondra? There's at most 4 Maynooth trains at the moment. Add in a couple of Kildare trains and you're up to 6-8. There's lots of space to add in a few more Maynooth trains there.

I preferred the idea here a few weeks ago of running extra Maynooth trains into Broadstone. For the moment anyway it offers a lot more in terms of connections to buses.

MarkoP11

The line has a capacity of 8 trains per hour when Spencer Dock opens that should mean, 2 from Longford and 6 from Maynooth/Clonsilla/Pace as things come on stream. Thus the line is fully loaded. It should be noted it is possible to reach Connolly via the Midland line as well. There could be up to 4 trains per hour from Heuston as well

If the line wasn't needed why was it relaid ?

The plot laid out in the yard in Spencer Dock suggests the station is not at the canal side but more centered and thus is accessible from both routes

Transport21 Fan

There was an excellent report on the RTE One News which showed a breif image of the terminal. It looks fairly utilitarian. A curved roof with a lot of glass and semi-covevered platforms. Anyways, I am sure the Times will have the images tomorrow. Report should be rebroadcast this evening.

It's not as exciting as fence poles and barbed wire being delivered to Kiltimagh by lorry, but I must say I am simply thrilled to see this station happening as I worked on getting this for a couple of years to initially a very lukewarm reception by IE management. So it was personally satisfying to hear Dr John Lynch of CIE talk about how it will relieve capacity etc... He did not mention Newbridge or Navan so the battle is only half won.

This Transport21 gig is flying along now. Great days.

BTW Victor there are at least two managers of a rail lobby/message board (not P11) who are posting on this board and have not declared themselves in the Conflict of Interest.

murphaph

It did look a bit utilitarian didn't it! It has a curved copper roof like a mis-shapen 'S' on it's side on the end elevation. The trains seem to stick out of it so it's mostly exterior and it's definately not 'sub-basement' which is a surprise to me. I was sure they'd want to build over it, maybe they still will.

ad hoc

The RTE News item about Spencer Dock station has been put online.

http://dynamic.rte.ie/av/228-2122258.smil

(Real Player required)

markf909

From that news report, I get the impression that the station is to the North of the Sheriff St. bridge, does anyone know if that is the case?
I always thought that it would be just south of the bridge.

Transport21 Fan

Docklands Station development announced by Press Office

from IE website

Minister for Transport Martin Cullen TD today (9th March 2006) announced the commencement of work on a €28 million investment in a new city centre station at Docklands, part of the Irish Government’s Transport 21 infrastructure investment plan.

Docklands, the first new city centre station since Tara Street in 1890, will deliver improvements in frequency and capacity on the Maynooth-Dublin commuter line, one of the fastest growing population corridors in the country, and allow transfer to and from the LUAS Red Line IFSC extension.

The station is part of an overall programme to dramatically increase the rail service’s capacity for commuters.

Iarnród Éireann has begun infrastructure work to link Docklands Station to the Maynooth line, and an application for planning permission for the station building itself will be lodged next week.

Subject to planning, Iarnród Éireann expect the station to open in 2007.

Docklands – Capacity, accessibility and integration

Currently, frequency of commuter services is restricted due to limited capacity in the Connolly Station area.

Docklands Station will provide an alternative terminus in the city centre, which will not be in conflict with DART or other services.

The station will:

- Deliver a peak rail service every 15 minutes on the Maynooth commuter line from 2007

- Allow for further expansion of Maynooth line services, and allow the development of the new rail line from Clonsilla to Dunboyne/M3 Park&Ride and onward extension to Navan

- Deliver 2,500 additional peak commuters daily on opening, with potential for up to 10,000 peak commuters daily as services expand

- Remove over 2,500 cars from roads daily on opening, building to 10,000

- allow up to 5 million extra journeys by rail per annum

- bring a strong public transport service to the growing Docklands/IFSC area

- connect with the LUAS red line extension to the Docklands

- Maynooth to Docklands in 40 minutes

- Clonsilla to Docklands in 23 minutes

- Will be built without causing any disruption to existing services

- Ensures Interconnector can be built without disruption to Docklands services

- Together with city centre resignalling project (completion 2009), increase city centre train capacity from 12 trains per hour per direction to 20 tph per direction

The investment in Docklands Station includes the station itself, and the track and signalling infrastructure to connect the station to the Commuter network.

Development: Iarnród Éireann has commenced infrastructure work, with site clearance nearing completion and work underway to construct the infrastructure to connect the station with the reopened ‘Newcomen’ line from Glasnevin Junction to the Docklands site.

The new station will have an island platform between two tracks, and will be built to meet the needs of all commuters, including modern standards of accessibility for mobility-impaired and sensory-impaired customers.

Integration: It will also deliver integration between transport modes, with the LUAS Red Line extension adjacent to the station, connecting commuters to the heart of the city centre, Connolly Station, Heuston Station and onwards to all stops to Tallaght.

Furthermore, it provides direct access to a large area in the city centre, including the growing IFSC/Docklands area and the North city centre.

The south city centre area is accessible via the nearby Sean O’Casey pedestrian bridge, and the proposed Macken Street Bridge will improve access further.

The station location, at the junction of Guild Street and Sheriff St Upper, ensures that the station will remain fully operational during the construction of the Interconnector, which will be developed at an adjacent site.

Extra Capacity for Commuters

The construction and opening of Docklands Station is part of Iarnród Éireann’s Integrated Rail Plan for Dublin, funded by Transport 21, which will deliver major capacity enhancement on all commuter rail routes leading into the city centre.

This programme commenced with DART Upgrade, which has already delivered a major boost in DART capacity. It continues with:

- Docklands Station – new city centre terminus to increase frequency and capacity on the Maynooth commuter line – complete 2007

- Kildare Route Project – four-tracking of line from Hazelhatch to Cherry Orchard to provide two dedicated lines for commuter trains, increasing frequency and capacity for Kildare route commuters – complete 2009

- City centre resignalling – resignalling of city centre area from Connolly Station to Grand Canal Dock, allowing increased capacity and frequency, primarily for Northern Commuter line – complete 2009

These projects will be followed by the development of the Interconnector, and underground high-capacity DART line which will dramatically increase frequency and capacity for services on the Northern, Maynooth and Kildare lines – the three fastest growing population corridors in the country.

The Interconnector also delivers a fully integrated rail network for the Greater Dublin area, linking all modes – DART, Commuter, Intercity, LUAS and Metro – and ensuring that suburb to suburb as well as suburb to city centre journeys can be made by a frequent, high capacity public transport network

citycentre

Hmmm, I always had the impression that the Spencer Dock Station would be on the route of the interconnector ie- underground.
Does this mean that people will have to change trains at Spencer Dock if they want to continue through the interconnector or is this station just a temporary fix until the interconnector (and a major underground station) are completed in the future? I assume that the latter is the case...

BTW, don't the developments in the background look pretty grim!

Transport21 Fan

It's being built on the northside of Sherriff Street Bridge? How will it connect with the Luas then? Will the Red Line be routed over Sherriff Street Bridge?

I am intrigued by the boxes at the side looks like it is a space for something else or a glass courtyard leading into the complex?

BTH the Interconnector Spencer Dock station is meant to be built directly under this station. (apparently)

citycentre

The whole thing seems very odd to me. I had always assumed that the Spencer Dock station would be placed under the huge central square in the overall scheme, allowing for direct interchange between the Luas (which is going to run the obvious central / mayor st. route as far as I'm aware) and the new Dart services running through the interconnector.
From the image shown the proposed station is indeed on the North side of Sheriff St Upper which seems very remote from most of the proposed new developments and infrastructure. It also looks quite makeshift, especially as it will only have two platforms and is essentially external as previously mentioned.
It HAS to be a temporary fix until the Interconnector is up and running, but why is this not mentioned in any of the Press releases?

Charles Darwin

MarkoP11 wrote:

The line has a capacity of 8 trains per hour when Spencer Dock opens that should mean, 2 from Longford and 6 from Maynooth/Clonsilla/Pace as things come on stream. Thus the line is fully loaded. It should be noted it is possible to reach Connolly via the Midland line as well. There could be up to 4 trains per hour from Heuston as well

I don't get it. I can understand that the Maynooth/Pace line only has a capacity of around 8 trains per hour because of the level crossings. Surely between Broombridge and Connolly/Spencer Dock the capacity would be a lot higher, so that you could fit in the Kildare trains as well and have them all going through Drumcondra and able to connect with buses there.

MarkoP11 wrote:

If the line wasn't needed why was it relaid ?

It's a good question.

murphaph

Perhaps the building above allow trains to pass through it and on under Sherriff Street Bridge to platfoms between Sherriff Street and Mayor Street?

They observation windo may be for signalling staff or whatever to keep an eye on the area as it will be quite busy-Midland line, Northern Line, Freight too and then trains to/from the interconnector.

It seems this station will indeed remain in service post Interconnector which is great news.

Transport21 Fan

You might be correct phillip, it's only the station building is on the Northside of Sheriff Street but the platforms and tracks continue under the bridge and from there you get to Luas? But then again...

The station building will have to remain after the Interconector as we need it for the d-Connector.

Also that looks like a DART in the station, does this mean the tracks wil be electrified from the start?

dr zoidberg

I'd be very surprised. AFAIK the electrification will be done simultaneously with the Interconnector so that both are delivered at the same time.
2015 is given as the date here.

murphaph

Hmmmm, upon closer inspection I don't think I am right, unless those glass platform shelters go ight over the tracks and are designed to prevent diesel fums destroying the front windows of that station building. I hope and pray to God that they don't think 1 city block counts as 'integrated'!! It also means the station is a good bit further from the proposed Macken Street Bridgeand the south inner city for pedestrians

It would be great if it was electrified from day one. It wold make a lot of sense and it'd surely set them up for continuing on to Maynooth

murphaph

I'd say the cages are secure bike parking.

Why can't they provide a plan of the bloody station????

Maskhadov

Does anyone else think the whole spencer dock development is over rated and a missed oppurtunity to deliver a living/work area in the heart of the city that is of consequence ? I just hope that the LUAS does stop within a matter of 3 minutes walk from the new station.

GerardKeating

MarkoP11 wrote:

All wrong of course

Budget is €60 million

Drumcondra 1901/1997, Glasnevin 1901, Grand Canal Dock 2000 have all been built since 1890

and Harmonstown, 1958
Clontarf Road, late 90's ?

MarkoP11

Once again Iarnrod Eireann have shafted the public the goal posts have been moved again, its possibly the worst case scenario possible. The dream of a proper integrated system are well and truly dead

1) Station north of Sheriff Street not south of as originally planned
2) IT DOES NOT intergrate with Luas
3) Only accessible from the Midland line
4) Not accessible from Drogheda or Kildare
5) Only 2 platforms not 3 as was originally planned

Andrew Duffy

Charles Darwin wrote:

Would that be difficult to fix?

No, it would need about 100 feet of track across empty land.

Andrew Duffy

Something I found interesting in the RTE report was John Lynch saying how the station would allow better DART and Drogheda service; does this mean that some Maynooth services will be moved to Spencer Dock (rather than only new ones going there)?

NavanJunction1

MarkoP11 wrote:

1) Station north of Sheriff Street not south of as originally planned
2) IT DOES NOT intergrate with Luas

Ehh, I'd like to take Broadstone, thanks. Especially now

Winters

Transport21 Fan wrote:

The station building will have to remain after the Interconector as we need it for the d-Connector.?

Hasnt it sunk in yet? D-Connector aint happening. That was made clear today.

GerardKeating

MarkoP11 wrote:

Drumcondra 1901/1997, Glasnevin 1901, Grand Canal Dock 2000 have all been built since 1890

Not sure about the earlier news, but the Six One news cleared states "city centre", not city.

DerekP11

Winters wrote:

Hasnt it sunk in yet? D-Connector aint happening. That was made clear today.

Quite right Winters. Much of the work done by P11s previous incarnation has been undone today. That is certainly how its appears. As MarkoP11 said, the goalposts have moved again. One can only move with them, regroup and try a different approach. In general though, anything new on the rail network in Dublin has to be welcomed, but details of Spencer Dock, so far ,are rather disappointing.

Without making excuses too much, the whole Spencer Dock plan is flawed from a rail point of view. Personally, I can only wonder how different it could have been, had P11 been around in 2001, as the deal was done on Spencer Dock south by the time we arrived on the scene.

From an interested party point of view, Im disappointed with todays annoncement. We had an active role in submitting proposals for a station in spencer dock and im currently looking at plans that clearly show a basement level station in spencer dock south, with an entrance to the Mayor street extension and direct access to luas.

What has gone so wrong and why?

icdg

Why do I get the feeling that the trains that run into Connolly and Pearse will be packed while the ones to Spencer Dock run empty? Drumcondra is a hugely popular station and people will not be happy if services are bypassing it. (Presumably some services to Connolly/Pearse will remain, or Drumcondra station may as well close down).

Will there be a shuttle bus service to Connolly from Spencer Dock for people who need to connect with DART?

MarkoP11

Assume that current service level will remain to Pearse though it may reduce slightly back to 2004 levels. Drumcondra will remain

The 90 bus could serve close enough to the new station

Its a sad day a chance to do it right has been lost again, the original plans where spot on

silverside

so just to recap - and correct me if i am wrong -

most maynooth services will bypass drumcondra and terminate in spencer dock, from where it is a 5/10 minute walk to luas stop, which will be the only connectivity to the rest of the city (apart from walking).

if that is the case, maynooth/blanch commuters are being shafted just to free up a bit of a bottleneck at connolly

or am i missing something?

BendiBus

If all Maynooth services terminate in the new station it makes the Interconnector even more urgent than ever as a link to the DART at Pearse will be vital. A disconnected (disintegrated?) service with no easy access to the southside (not even the south city centre) will not be popular!

MarkoP11

Those Maynooth services which currently serve Pearse in the rush hour will remain or so we are told

After todays disastrous news you never know what IE are going to do next. To be honest you won't be seeing many trains to Spencer Dock anytime soon.

I'd feel more sorry for Kildare, Newbridge, Sallins and Hazelhatch who won't be getting there promised service to Spencer Dock

This is a very sad day, what was once a fine plan is now a disaster

Zebra3

Stupid.

Instead of getting a better service, Maynooth line customers now face increased times to get to the city centre.

Bypassing Drumcondra is a disaster. That station is one of the busiest on the Maynooth line. As people pointed out, it's bus connections make it so handy for integration which is meant to be the name of the game.

Drumcondra is hugely important for people along the Maynooth line (even as far as Longford) getting to Dublin airport. Hopefully any metro/Luas to the airport connects with the Maynooth line.

Winters

silverside wrote:

so just to recap - and correct me if i am wrong -

most maynooth services will bypass drumcondra and terminate in spencer dock, from where it is a 5/10 minute walk to luas stop, which will be the only connectivity to the rest of the city (apart from walking).

if that is the case, maynooth/blanch commuters are being shafted just to free up a bit of a bottleneck at connolly

or am i missing something?

Yes you are actually,

From this new docklands station it will be a 5/10 minute walk through a building site in one of the roughest areas in Dublin to a street that isnt built yet to a Luas stop where you will have to wait 2 years for the first tram to arrive to take you the 10min journey to O'Connell Street.

Dont you get the feeling the RPA and CIE have no intention of playing ball together. What a bunch of idiots.

Zebra3 wrote:

Drumcondra is hugely important for people along the Maynooth line (even as far as Longford) getting to Dublin airport. Hopefully any metro/Luas to the airport connects with the Maynooth line.

It doesnt, and it wont. If the CIE dont shaft you then the RPA will.

Transport21 Fan

MarkoP11 After todays disastrous news you never know what IE are going to do next.

Man, all that shameless brown nosing of IE management really paid off...

Victor

The €30m facility, which is being built on the city's north docks, is the first railway station to be constructed in the city since Tara Street in 1890.

Grand Canal Dock? Clontarf Road? Cherry Orchard? Broombridge?