Season 2, Episode 20: "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part 2"

iguana

Well I totally saw that coming. For the last few episodes I thought it was really obvious that for the last part of the final episode they would jump forward a year, to a colony on the new planet and end it with a Cylon invasion. Yup, what a predictable show.;)

What an amazing leap. I think this is science fiction at it's best, totally unafraid to push the boundaries of expectation. (I'm surprised that the network-types allowed it as they usually tend to be very cautious about that kind of leap as they assume that the audience are idiots.) What a great show!

There are so many interesting plots left hanging. What do the Cylons want? Why did they leave the colonies but follow the humans to New Caprica? What happened with Starbuck and Lee? And more importantly what happened with Starbuck and Tighe to make their first reaction on seeing each other be a big hug?:eek: If the 8 cylon on the planet is War Hero Sharon how will she react to seeing The Cheif, who she had planned a future with when she thought she was human, shacked up with Cally, who shot her? What if Cally or the Cheif really is a Cylon? etc, etc, etc.

It was also nice to see with the revelation that Dean Stockwell is a Cylon that the Cylons can be any age and not all in their 20's to 40's like we have seen so far. I'd love to know what number he is? Or any of the other cylons, does the number depict a heirarchy?

Two thing I didn't like about the episode - Why in the last two episodes were they only interested in rescuing survivors from Caprica? As far as I remember there were 12 colonies. Surely it would be reasonable to imagine that each planet had groups of survivors? And if the cylons had left the colonies surely it would have been worth checking out the other planets?

The other thing is that I was disappointed that Adama and Roslin were so stupid about Baltar and Six's relationship. Roslin tells Adama that she remembers that Baltar was with the same Cylon model who accused him of treason in Six Dergrees of Seperation on the day of the attacks. The same Cylon model who was prisoner on Pegasus. Who escaped and shot Admiral Cain. Who Baltar was in contact with before she escaped. Then a nuke that was in Baltar's posession explodeds killing thousands.

And neither of them can put those pieces together? I would say that is more than enough to warrant an investigation. Even on the President. Especially as they are in a time of war and the military powers hate him.

Despite that I really enjoyed the episode, and there is no way it was a dream. (If it was I will quit watching).

Oh, and yes The Cheif did look incredibly like Kevin Smith with the beard and glasses.

Nuttzz

Where was the "radiological alarm" when Gina armed the nuke???

Haruspex

Forget about dreams: this is cold, hard sci-fi reality!

I was nervous about where this was going when they jumped ahead one year but I've actually grown to like the idea. The transition sequence with the camera fixed on Baltar along with the music was so simple and yet beautifully done. (Kudos to Bear McCreary again as usual for his compositions in this episode!)

Despite a year having passed you could kind of fill in the gaps with certain characters without knowing exactly how they got there - the earlier part of the episode had foreshadowing of the shape of things to come, for example Cally and Tyrol's relationship, the widening rift between Starbuck and Apollo etc.

Where was CapricaSharon one year on? She was on a downward spiral post-rescue and I think her loyalty to the Colonials was dwindling. I think her absence is significant as we caught up with most of the other characters. Hopefully they'll deal with this - probably in the form of flashbacks?

I liked how they explained how the Cylons found them. It was almost like Baltar betrayed humanity once again by setting in train the cycle of events which led to Gina's detonation of the nuclear bomb which in turn alerted the Cylon fleet to their presence.

October can't come quick enough - I'll probably box myself until then!

MarkR

Wouldn't it be funny if a set of identical twins turned up? Cylon! Get him!

GerardKeating

jor el wrote:

49550 at the start of episode 20. On New Caprica, at the end of this episode, it was down to 39,192, so there were over 10,000 people killed in the last episode.

Not exactly,

As you say there were 49,550 at the start of the episodes, and only 39,192 on New Capricia.

The difference is the combined total of those killed by the Nuke, and the crew of the two BattleStar's and other assorted ships that jumped before the Cylon invasion. You got to figure a thousand or two there.

Peace

It was plain to see that soceity was not goin to have an easy time of it on the surface and jumping a year on really highlighted that. Who would want to live in tents on a cold desolate planet? But people en mass don't tend to make smart decisions.

What i can't figure out is why the writers decided to pack so much into one episode. It may have been better to give an episode to Starbucks survey of the planet and exfiltration back to Galactica (& other bits) instead of having them in one scene standing on the planet and then in the next scene standing on Glactica. Also the election could have been dealt with a little more smoothly. To me it felt like the episode had no real flow.

Things are going to get intersting... there will be a lot to cover in the first few episodes.

9/10 from me.

ButcherOfNog

Peace wrote:

Things are going to get intersting...

yer about time, been so dull up to now

c0y0te

I rated this 'okay' but only grudgingly

There were several issues with this as a 'finale'. To start with, the time slip thing. BSG thus far has always been about the immediacy of things. it was about the minutes and days, even the hours.. not a friggin' year. To just throw us one year forward is a cheezy way to avoid things and change the plot around. It just didn't work for me.

The whole rigged presidential thing was going great, right up to the moment she capitulated... it would have been more interesting to see how it wore her down over a period of months.

The cylons within - good ol' dean doing his bible thumping best - didn't make sense either. Where exactly did he turn up from on the planet? One minute its troops under fire, the next its dean time on recon.

What exactly is the big issue with starbuck and apollo? It was never developed and only referenced at the end by the col. on the planet.

Why did the cylons pull out and leave? At that exact moment?

The final ep was supposed to be 90 minutes long, but I suspect it was cut to ribbons, which is why some of the plot makes no sense. The final ep was supposed to have the cylons presenting an option to the fleet, along the lines of 'we can live in peace if you agree to donate some women to us for our baby farms every year'... but it never happened, at least not in the version I watched.

Of all the eps I've seen to date, this by far has me the most dissappointed. I've seen filler eps before, but to offer up this dribble as a finale just doesn't cut it. It smacks of laziness and a lack of creativity.

Johnny Storm

Hi Coyote, g'wan, tell us what you really think!

I have quite a few reservations about this ep too and where we seem to be heading (no more f---ing resistance fighters please :mad: ) but I have to salute the out-and-out balls of the creators of this programme. Based on the track record to date I am very hopeful that they will be able to justify all this in a creative and entertaining way next season

OSiriS

What exactly is the big issue with starbuck and apollo? It was never developed and only referenced at the end by the col. on the planet.

Starbuck was engaged to his brother before being responsible for his death, which he never forgave her for. In an effort to get over the death of her fiancé she made repeated passes at him and made a number of attempts to get him into bed. She was constantly insubordinate which he resented greatly, and at the end she insulted his girlfriend which seemed to send him over the edge. Apollo fancied Starbuck, but all she did was toy with his emotions and toss him aside when she got tired of it. To be honest I can't blame him for having no more time for her

Barry Aldwell

c0y0te wrote:

The final ep was supposed to be 90 minutes long

It was 90 minutes long - with ads. This translates to just over an hour without ads. A normal 1 hour BSG episode translates to around 40 minutes without ads. Though a nonsensical 60 minute (with ads) version of this episode was cut for the international market, I don't think that's been shown anywhere yet

Calibos

Why does everyone not think it is a dream and why do a lot of people not want it to be a dream. ie Do some people not want it to be a dream because they like where this is taking the story or are some people ambivelent to which way the story goes but just hate the idea of a dream as a plot device?

Why? Is it the whole Dallas Booby Ewing thing?? TBH I don't see much of a parallel. Pam Ewings Dream reset an entire season of Dallas. President Ros' dream (IMHO. How she imagines things developing if the collaborator Balter gets power) resets what? Half an episode? People could accept it being a dream if it was mid season and reset at the end of the episode, but can't accept its a dream because it happens to be a cliff hanger and wouldn't be reset till next season?

If Moores Podcasts denying its a dream aren't a red herring then tbh totally changing the motivations and character dynamics in the space of the last 15 minutes of an episode is a bigger mistake than this being the 'silly idea' of a dream as a plot device.

Stark

Oh for god sake, it's not a dream. This isn't Dallas, it isn't Smallville, it isn't Star Trek: Voyager. When has BSG backed away from the consequences of the show's events? Never. Why start now.

They've already outlined the plans for the first few episodes of the next season.

The first few episodes of Season 3 will involve dealing with the resistance on New Caprica and flashbacks to how many of the events alluded to in the "One Year Later" leap occurred such as Tigh and Starbuck becoming friends, Anders and Starbuck, Cally and Tyrol and whatever happened to the imprisoned Sharon so looks like a fair bit on the planet.

From blogcritics:

First up, Battlestar Galactica will not be Occupation New Caprica for long. While the Cylons will hold the fleet on the planet, a resolution of sorts will occur by the fourth or fifth episode. According to Moore, "I don't think it will take quite as long as it took us to wrap up the arc at the beginning of the second season." The humans will return to the Battlestars Galactica and Pegasus very quickly and resume their journey to Earth.

Secondly, a new arc on the Cylon home world will be introduced. "We're going to do an ongoing Cylon story where we're going to be cutting over to the Cylon world for the first time." As Lucy Lawless (Number Three aka D'anna Biers) is joining the cast for at least 10 episodes, one can only speculate that she will be one of the Cylons on the home world who will try to convince other models that it is the wrong thing to negotiate with the humans. Hopefully, Brother Cavel will show up too; an inside source at the SCI FI Channel has indicated that negotiations are underway to bring back Dean Stockwell to the series in the upcoming season.

Finally, Baltar will further go down the path to darkness and corruption. "[We plan to make him] more of an antagonist." Whether his character will ever reach the depths of depravity as the original figure played by John Colicos has yet to be determined. When asked whether Gaius will be sitting up in a high chair giving orders to the Cylons like Colicos, Moore could only indicate with a chuckle, "I don't know... That's still a possibility."

Of course there's nothing stopping you from imagining the show just the way you like it in your head.

sprinkles

Calibos wrote:

Why does everyone not think it is a dream and why do a lot of people not want it to be a dream. ie Do some people not want it to be a dream because they like where this is taking the story or are some people ambivelent to which way the story goes but just hate the idea of a dream as a plot device?

Why? Is it the whole Dallas Booby Ewing thing?? TBH I don't see much of a parallel. Pam Ewings Dream reset an entire season of Dallas. President Ros' dream (IMHO. How she imagines things developing if the collaborator Balter gets power) resets what? Half an episode? People could accept it being a dream if it was mid season and reset at the end of the episode, but can't accept its a dream because it happens to be a cliff hanger and wouldn't be reset till next season?

If Moores Podcasts denying its a dream aren't a red herring then tbh totally changing the motivations and character dynamics in the space of the last 15 minutes of an episode is a bigger mistake than this being the 'silly idea' of a dream as a plot device.

I totally disagree.

I think it would be awful if it was a dream and it's nothing to do with Dallas, it's to do withthe fact that the season finale would have been a pointless episode if it is a dream, a pointless ending to a great season

Who says that we will never see the events of the "missing year". I reckon they will be showing sporadic events through flashbacks, an interesting way of telling the story and to be honest completely refreshes the series (not that it needed to be refreshed but it's interesting no the less).

I really can't wait to see what they intend on doing with this. It was a brave move...I think/hope it will pay off.

Sonderval

What did Ragnarok Station Cylon want with Starbuck, I wonder? Something to do with her removed ovaries, no doubt...

Awesome episode. Brave way to push the show and it will certainly have us lusting for more come October.

So awesome

ButcherOfNog

Sonderval wrote:

What did Ragnarok Station Cylon want with Starbuck, I wonder? Something to do with her removed ovaries, no doubt...

..... and the fact that if anyone is gonna create some trouble for the cylons, it'd be her.

Haruspex

c0y0te wrote:

The cylons within - good ol' dean doing his bible thumping best - didn't make sense either. Where exactly did he turn up from on the planet? One minute its troops under fire, the next its dean time on recon.

This was actually addressed in the podcast and Moore also wasn't happy with how Cavil just suddenly seems to appear, calling it a "script issue" rather than one of how the scene was cut. Apparently the intention was that he was there all along hiding out with the resistance fighters and marines and that he emerges when the coast seems to be clear.

sprinkles

Haruspex wrote:

This was actually addressed in the podcast and Moore also wasn't happy with how Cavil just suddenly seems to appear, calling it a "script issue" rather than one of how the scene was cut. Apparently the intention was that he was there all along hiding out with the resistance fighters and marines and that he emerges when the coast seems to be clear.

Thats what I took from it...never thought about how he got there.....

The Corinthian

Barry Aldwell wrote:

Another thing about the 6 setting off the nuke - technically she committed suicide, which she didn't want to do before as it is a sin. Change of heart, or was she compelled to show the Cylons where the fleet had settled?

Perhaps her intention to use the nuke to alert the Cylon fleet to their position and/or cause as much damage to the fleet as possible - that might make it more of a sacrifice than a suicide.

On the other hand, she was one damaged chick too.

spooydermot wrote:

Was that guy who comes looking for Starbuck the cylon that she tortured a few episodes back? I remember him saying that he remembers when this all happened before, only last time he was the torturer, in anycase I doubt he's up to any good.....

Just before he was blown out of the airlock he and Starbuck seemed to ‘connect’. So perhaps he fell for her - a kind of Stockholm’s Syndrome for toasters.

So, was there any indication of why the cylons returned? because the 2 Stockwells basically told them that the war was over, now obviously this could be a cylon trick, or perhaps there was some power struggle within the Cylon civilisation over the year that has passed and the 'religious fundamentalists' have regained control?

It’s quite possible that the Cylons are in the midst of a civil war (possibly even with certain models siding on one side or the other). It would explain how Stockwell’s parting ways speech contradicts the occupation of new Caprica a year later.

Have to say, something about when Baltar wakes up (a year later) with the women in the background made me think of Babylon 5....theres something of the Londo Molari possesed by the Shadows about him.

Yup, but then again Londo was very much a Faustian stock character.

sprinkles wrote:

Just on a nother note, the nuke "six" prob didn't get reborn due to all the interference from the nebula and what not, ala the arms hold up in the mini series, and I thought it was blaring obvious that Sharon and six in the presidents office where the "war heroes"

TBH, I would think that they wanted to kill off the Pegasus Six. There’s already going to be enough confusion between Caprica Six and the one in Gaius’ head. Anyhow, had she downloaded successfully after the nuke it wouldn’t have taken the Cylons a year to find New Caprica.

Peace

The Corinthian wrote:

TBH, I would think that they wanted to kill off the Pegasus Six. There’s already going to be enough confusion between Caprica Six and the one in Gaius’ head. Anyhow, had she downloaded successfully after the nuke it wouldn’t have taken the Cylons a year to find New Caprica.

I think Pegasus Six is gone. Afterall the resurrection ship is kaput and they are too far for her to transfer back to wherever.

Also when Baltar asked "How did you find us?" the response is something like "Quite by accident. We were over a light year away and detected the signature of a nuke....". So I guess Pegasus Six wasn't about to tell em turn left at the nebual. Sure even if she was, we all know about women and their sense of direction .. eh lads eh? So i suppose the writer thought it would be a crap ending where Pegasus Six flew the cylon fleet into a black hole while tending her makeup.

Barry Aldwell

Something which didn't occur to me at the time, but I saw elsewhere, and which makes a lot of sense if you think about it:

Pegasus Six was sitting around 2 feet from a thermonuclear blast which was powerful enough to destroy Cloud Nine and several surrounding ships. Anything that close to a nuclear blast would be vapourised almost instantly. Even if there was another resurrection ship in the area, if she doesn't have one hell of a fast download speed, her body would not have had time to die and then download it's consciousness fast enough before whatever part of her body that does the downloading was vapourised. So she's probably gone forever.

Stark

Well on that front, I think the download system keeps a copy of the cylon's memories at all times (when it can) and can then rewind a split second or two at the time of death. Considering the number of toasters who were vapourised in various battles, that's the only way it would work I reckon.

Barry Aldwell

Would explain how they gave Caprica Boomer all the memories of Galactica Boomer without having to kill Galactica Boomer..........

sprinkles

Yeah I wondered about that, she can remember things that galacitca boomer did while on galactica even before she was killed. Strange. So the cylons memory is constantly being downloaded and shared to the other cylons of the same model!? If this is the case then why was it that the other 6 models didn't realise caprica 6's discontent with the "grand plan"?

CodeMonkey

sprinkles wrote:

Yeah I wondered about that, she can remember things that galacitca boomer did while on galactica even before she was killed. Strange. So the cylons memory is constantly being downloaded and shared to the other cylons of the same model!? If this is the case then why was it that the other 6 models didn't realise caprica 6's discontent with the "grand plan"?

Who says the memory is constantly being downloaded and shared? There's only indication that memories are downloaded when one dies....and quite over analysing it, it's just a tv show

Scruff

wow. great double episode. Didn't see them all actually settling on the planet, thought the fleet would split with Peagsus left to defend the colony and Galactica would continue on. seems i was a bit wong .

If what the priest cylon was saying about humanity and cylon going their seperate ways was true why have the cylons come back?
Think i'm going to have to read Starks spoilers...doubt i'll last till october.

Thought that Adama's reaction after the nuke explosion, particularily after what the president had told him was a bit odd. He had no quams about plotting to kill a supieror officer for the good of the fleet but did about rigging an election when he was told Baltar was a cylon sympathiser and about to become president.

Now, what to watch till october......:(

Peace

Prison Break should be starting back soon.

The Corinthian

Scruff wrote:

If what the priest cylon was saying about humanity and cylon going their seperate ways was true why have the cylons come back?

You're assuming that all the Cylons chose to agree with this.

He had no quams about plotting to kill a supieror officer for the good of the fleet but did about rigging an election when he was told Baltar was a cylon sympathiser and about to become president.

He did have quams and didn't kill the supieror officer in question.

Stark

sprinkles wrote:

Yeah I wondered about that, she can remember things that galacitca boomer did while on galactica even before she was killed. Strange. So the cylons memory is constantly being downloaded and shared to the other cylons of the same model!? If this is the case then why was it that the other 6 models didn't realise caprica 6's discontent with the "grand plan"?

No, it seemed to be a once off for Galactica Boomer/Caprica Boomer. And even then there were a few holes.

I guess the cylons have the option of a manual memory transfer but choose not to use it over cylon privacy concerns.

MarkR

Hmmm. System checkpoints or a manual backup. Would you like to restore your consciousness to an earlier time? Y/N?