Season 2, Episode 20: "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part 2"

Dunners · 13-03-2006 2:07pm

Finally got to see this as I was away at the weekend and I can sum it all up in one word and one word only, interesting.

The beginning with the fight off Caprica was great, Dean Stockwell was cracking (was him put out the airlock??) and the build up to the election was brilliant too. Then it went all meh in the middle up until the point where Pegasus Six went all psycho (Baltar pushed her too far too quick methinks?) and blew up at least four (yes I was sad enough to go back and check) ships. The the ending was brilliant if a bit surreal. The one year jump was somewhat off putting but it was great to see how everyone got on on New Caprica.

I can see the last third being a dream sequence but still not sure if I want it to be. I can see Adama losing faith after a year of literally going in circles and I liked the way they had him with the moustache, just as he was in the flashbacks of his low times before re-joining the fleet.

All in all an interesting episode as I said, can't wait for season 3 to see how they plan to develop it all. What do the Cylons want? Will the fleet return? Will Baltar be exposed? Can Anders survive? Is it all a dream????

Cruel and Unusual punishment these cliffhangers, CRUEL AND UNUSUAL!!!

Yakuza · 13-03-2006 2:37pm

They always had the population correct if I recall correctly. I must check again, but it was around 49000 at the end of the miniseries/beginning of "33", then it dropped back to 47700 ish for the next one ("Water"?), taking into account the fact that 1300-odd were lost when they destroyed the liner.

It stayed around that until the Pegasus showed up when it went up to 49500ish. From this I'd deduce that a fully-crewed Battlestar has around 2000 personnel on it.

As for the numbers killed in the Rising Star explosion etc, I'd put that around 8,000 - that's assuming there's about 2000 on the two skeleton-crewed Battlestars and the other ships still in the fleet.

What I'd like to know is what happened to the Sharon/Six models that killed Deanna Biers on Caprica. Were they forgiven for killing a fellow Cylon, and were they really able to change the policy of the entire Cylon population?

October???? WAAAAHHH!!!!

CodeMonkey · 13-03-2006 2:38pm

sprinkles wrote:

Just on a nother note, the nuke "six" prob didn't get reborn due to all the interference from the nebula and what not, ala the arms hold up in the mini series, and I thought it was blaring obvious that Sharon and six in the presidents office where the "war heroes"

Yeah that has to be caprica 6 cause it was a meeting of leaders. Also she has platinum blonde hair while nuke 6 has a more natural brown/blonde hair colour. Also cylons near BSG can't resurrect due to BSG blowing up the resurrection ship. There wouldn't be another resurrection ship near them unless they've been found. Seriously doubt we'll see nuke 6 again.

CodeMonkey · 13-03-2006 3:06pm

Yakuza wrote:

What I'd like to know is what happened to the Sharon/Six models that killed Deanna Biers on Caprica. Were they forgiven for killing a fellow Cylon, and were they really able to change the policy of the entire Cylon population?

The sharon and six model that killed the xena model are the 2 war heroes. They explained what they were going to do and how long they got to do it before zeus ressurrects xena and give her the power of the gods....oh wait...

MisterAnarchy · 13-03-2006 3:10pm

What do the Cylons want?

To procreate most likely.

Rev Hellfire · 13-03-2006 3:20pm

MisterAnarchy wrote:

To procreate most likely.

Don't we all.

Azza · 13-03-2006 3:33pm

I reckon if the end was not a dream then its sent Guis down a dark path he can't recover from. While unintentionally guilty of giving the cylons insider information regarding the colonies defense system giving the nuke to the Gina model was really unforgivable. Incidently did not like the way Adama concluded that Baltars nuke was stolen. Thought that might not be uncovered till later. Baltar will go all out to cover up the fact he gave Gina the nuke I reckon. Be shame though I have been waiting for 2 seasons now for him to turn the tables on 6.

I reckon however the 6 with baltar in her head will do something similar and ***** up the cylons plans later on. Its my theory that in the first episode of the pilot its Baltar in her head who she is talking to that when you see here talking to a person off camera and saying something like " about time you showed up". I reckon 6 with baltar in here head will become important as season 3 goes on.

Goodshape · 13-03-2006 6:17pm

'Great' episode. The middle section was definitly a bit slow (although still interesting) but the first and last acts where amazing.

One year later? What a thing to do. Totally took me by surprise when I was beginning to think it would end with a 'settling on the planet / strange new world' type thing. Could really keep things interesting if they play their cards right. I'm not too thrilled about the prospect of a prolonged planetary campaign, but I suppose I could have faith that BSG will do it right.

October's far, far to far away

Yakuza · 13-03-2006 6:36pm

CodeMonkey wrote:

The sharon and six model that killed the xena model are the 2 war heroes. They explained what they were going to do and how long they got to do it before zeus ressurrects xena and give her the power of the gods....oh wait...

Yep, I'd figured that out...what I meant was I'd like to see another cylon-centric story, detailing how Sharon/Six managed to change the Cylon policy.

I hope we get to see some flashbacks to cover the year between the creation of the settlement and the surrender.

Also...oh my Gods Adama should shave off that frakking 'tash. Makes him look like a pimp

savemejebus · 13-03-2006 7:15pm

i hope to god that season 3 isn't all flashbacks from variouss characters points of view to show how everthing changed over a year. That would be too tedious

iguana · 13-03-2006 7:49pm

Well I totally saw that coming. For the last few episodes I thought it was really obvious that for the last part of the final episode they would jump forward a year, to a colony on the new planet and end it with a Cylon invasion. Yup, what a predictable show.;)

What an amazing leap. I think this is science fiction at it's best, totally unafraid to push the boundaries of expectation. (I'm surprised that the network-types allowed it as they usually tend to be very cautious about that kind of leap as they assume that the audience are idiots.) What a great show!

There are so many interesting plots left hanging. What do the Cylons want? Why did they leave the colonies but follow the humans to New Caprica? What happened with Starbuck and Lee? And more importantly what happened with Starbuck and Tighe to make their first reaction on seeing each other be a big hug?:eek: If the 8 cylon on the planet is War Hero Sharon how will she react to seeing The Cheif, who she had planned a future with when she thought she was human, shacked up with Cally, who shot her? What if Cally or the Cheif really is a Cylon? etc, etc, etc.

It was also nice to see with the revelation that Dean Stockwell is a Cylon that the Cylons can be any age and not all in their 20's to 40's like we have seen so far. I'd love to know what number he is? Or any of the other cylons, does the number depict a heirarchy?

Two thing I didn't like about the episode - Why in the last two episodes were they only interested in rescuing survivors from Caprica? As far as I remember there were 12 colonies. Surely it would be reasonable to imagine that each planet had groups of survivors? And if the cylons had left the colonies surely it would have been worth checking out the other planets?

The other thing is that I was disappointed that Adama and Roslin were so stupid about Baltar and Six's relationship. Roslin tells Adama that she remembers that Baltar was with the same Cylon model who accused him of treason in Six Dergrees of Seperation on the day of the attacks. The same Cylon model who was prisoner on Pegasus. Who escaped and shot Admiral Cain. Who Baltar was in contact with before she escaped. Then a nuke that was in Baltar's posession explodeds killing thousands.

And neither of them can put those pieces together? I would say that is more than enough to warrant an investigation. Even on the President. Especially as they are in a time of war and the military powers hate him.

Despite that I really enjoyed the episode, and there is no way it was a dream. (If it was I will quit watching).

Oh, and yes The Cheif did look incredibly like Kevin Smith with the beard and glasses.

Nuttzz · 13-03-2006 7:52pm

Where was the "radiological alarm" when Gina armed the nuke???

Haruspex · 13-03-2006 8:10pm

Forget about dreams: this is cold, hard sci-fi reality!

I was nervous about where this was going when they jumped ahead one year but I've actually grown to like the idea. The transition sequence with the camera fixed on Baltar along with the music was so simple and yet beautifully done. (Kudos to Bear McCreary again as usual for his compositions in this episode!)

Despite a year having passed you could kind of fill in the gaps with certain characters without knowing exactly how they got there - the earlier part of the episode had foreshadowing of the shape of things to come, for example Cally and Tyrol's relationship, the widening rift between Starbuck and Apollo etc.

Where was CapricaSharon one year on? She was on a downward spiral post-rescue and I think her loyalty to the Colonials was dwindling. I think her absence is significant as we caught up with most of the other characters. Hopefully they'll deal with this - probably in the form of flashbacks?

I liked how they explained how the Cylons found them. It was almost like Baltar betrayed humanity once again by setting in train the cycle of events which led to Gina's detonation of the nuclear bomb which in turn alerted the Cylon fleet to their presence.

October can't come quick enough - I'll probably box myself until then!

MarkR · 13-03-2006 9:54pm

Wouldn't it be funny if a set of identical twins turned up?

Cylon! Get him!

GerardKeating · 14-03-2006 12:19am

jor el wrote:

49550 at the start of episode 20. On New Caprica, at the end of this episode, it was down to 39,192, so there were over 10,000 people killed in the last episode.

Not exactly,

As you say there were 49,550 at the start of the episodes, and only 39,192 on New Capricia.

The difference is the combined total of those killed by the Nuke, and the crew of the two BattleStar's and other assorted ships that jumped before the Cylon invasion. You got to figure a thousand or two there.

Peace · 14-03-2006 8:29am

It was plain to see that soceity was not goin to have an easy time of it on the surface and jumping a year on really highlighted that. Who would want to live in tents on a cold desolate planet? But people en mass don't tend to make smart decisions.

What i can't figure out is why the writers decided to pack so much into one episode. It may have been better to give an episode to Starbucks survey of the planet and exfiltration back to Galactica (& other bits) instead of having them in one scene standing on the planet and then in the next scene standing on Glactica. Also the election could have been dealt with a little more smoothly. To me it felt like the episode had no real flow.

Things are going to get intersting... there will be a lot to cover in the first few episodes.

9/10 from me.

ButcherOfNog · 14-03-2006 12:55pm

Peace wrote:

Things are going to get intersting...

yer about time, been so dull up to now

c0y0te · 14-03-2006 12:55pm

I rated this 'okay' but only grudgingly

There were several issues with this as a 'finale'. To start with, the time slip thing. BSG thus far has always been about the immediacy of things. it was about the minutes and days, even the hours.. not a friggin' year. To just throw us one year forward is a cheezy way to avoid things and change the plot around. It just didn't work for me.

The whole rigged presidential thing was going great, right up to the moment she capitulated... it would have been more interesting to see how it wore her down over a period of months.

The cylons within - good ol' dean doing his bible thumping best - didn't make sense either. Where exactly did he turn up from on the planet? One minute its troops under fire, the next its dean time on recon.

What exactly is the big issue with starbuck and apollo? It was never developed and only referenced at the end by the col. on the planet.

Why did the cylons pull out and leave? At that exact moment?

The final ep was supposed to be 90 minutes long, but I suspect it was cut to ribbons, which is why some of the plot makes no sense. The final ep was supposed to have the cylons presenting an option to the fleet, along the lines of 'we can live in peace if you agree to donate some women to us for our baby farms every year'... but it never happened, at least not in the version I watched.

Of all the eps I've seen to date, this by far has me the most dissappointed. I've seen filler eps before, but to offer up this dribble as a finale just doesn't cut it. It smacks of laziness and a lack of creativity.

Johnny Storm · 14-03-2006 1:05pm

Hi Coyote, g'wan, tell us what you really think!

I have quite a few reservations about this ep too and where we seem to be heading (no more f---ing resistance fighters please :mad: ) but I have to salute the out-and-out balls of the creators of this programme. Based on the track record to date I am very hopeful that they will be able to justify all this in a creative and entertaining way next season

OSiriS · 14-03-2006 1:14pm

What exactly is the big issue with starbuck and apollo? It was never developed and only referenced at the end by the col. on the planet.

Starbuck was engaged to his brother before being responsible for his death, which he never forgave her for. In an effort to get over the death of her fiancé she made repeated passes at him and made a number of attempts to get him into bed. She was constantly insubordinate which he resented greatly, and at the end she insulted his girlfriend which seemed to send him over the edge. Apollo fancied Starbuck, but all she did was toy with his emotions and toss him aside when she got tired of it. To be honest I can't blame him for having no more time for her

Barry Aldwell · 14-03-2006 1:58pm

c0y0te wrote:

The final ep was supposed to be 90 minutes long

It was 90 minutes long - with ads. This translates to just over an hour without ads. A normal 1 hour BSG episode translates to around 40 minutes without ads. Though a nonsensical 60 minute (with ads) version of this episode was cut for the international market, I don't think that's been shown anywhere yet

Calibos · 14-03-2006 4:23pm

Why does everyone not think it is a dream and why do a lot of people not want it to be a dream. ie Do some people not want it to be a dream because they like where this is taking the story or are some people ambivelent to which way the story goes but just hate the idea of a dream as a plot device?

Why? Is it the whole Dallas Booby Ewing thing?? TBH I don't see much of a parallel. Pam Ewings Dream reset an entire season of Dallas. President Ros' dream (IMHO. How she imagines things developing if the collaborator Balter gets power) resets what? Half an episode? People could accept it being a dream if it was mid season and reset at the end of the episode, but can't accept its a dream because it happens to be a cliff hanger and wouldn't be reset till next season?

If Moores Podcasts denying its a dream aren't a red herring then tbh totally changing the motivations and character dynamics in the space of the last 15 minutes of an episode is a bigger mistake than this being the 'silly idea' of a dream as a plot device.

Stark · 14-03-2006 5:16pm

Oh for god sake, it's not a dream. This isn't Dallas, it isn't Smallville, it isn't Star Trek: Voyager. When has BSG backed away from the consequences of the show's events? Never. Why start now.

They've already outlined the plans for the first few episodes of the next season.

The first few episodes of Season 3 will involve dealing with the resistance on New Caprica and flashbacks to how many of the events alluded to in the "One Year Later" leap occurred such as Tigh and Starbuck becoming friends, Anders and Starbuck, Cally and Tyrol and whatever happened to the imprisoned Sharon so looks like a fair bit on the planet.

From blogcritics:

First up, Battlestar Galactica will not be Occupation New Caprica for long. While the Cylons will hold the fleet on the planet, a resolution of sorts will occur by the fourth or fifth episode. According to Moore, "I don't think it will take quite as long as it took us to wrap up the arc at the beginning of the second season." The humans will return to the Battlestars Galactica and Pegasus very quickly and resume their journey to Earth.

Secondly, a new arc on the Cylon home world will be introduced. "We're going to do an ongoing Cylon story where we're going to be cutting over to the Cylon world for the first time." As Lucy Lawless (Number Three aka D'anna Biers) is joining the cast for at least 10 episodes, one can only speculate that she will be one of the Cylons on the home world who will try to convince other models that it is the wrong thing to negotiate with the humans. Hopefully, Brother Cavel will show up too; an inside source at the SCI FI Channel has indicated that negotiations are underway to bring back Dean Stockwell to the series in the upcoming season.

Finally, Baltar will further go down the path to darkness and corruption. "[We plan to make him] more of an antagonist." Whether his character will ever reach the depths of depravity as the original figure played by John Colicos has yet to be determined. When asked whether Gaius will be sitting up in a high chair giving orders to the Cylons like Colicos, Moore could only indicate with a chuckle, "I don't know... That's still a possibility."

Of course there's nothing stopping you from imagining the show just the way you like it in your head.

sprinkles · 14-03-2006 6:24pm

Calibos wrote:

Why does everyone not think it is a dream and why do a lot of people not want it to be a dream. ie Do some people not want it to be a dream because they like where this is taking the story or are some people ambivelent to which way the story goes but just hate the idea of a dream as a plot device?

Why? Is it the whole Dallas Booby Ewing thing?? TBH I don't see much of a parallel. Pam Ewings Dream reset an entire season of Dallas. President Ros' dream (IMHO. How she imagines things developing if the collaborator Balter gets power) resets what? Half an episode? People could accept it being a dream if it was mid season and reset at the end of the episode, but can't accept its a dream because it happens to be a cliff hanger and wouldn't be reset till next season?

If Moores Podcasts denying its a dream aren't a red herring then tbh totally changing the motivations and character dynamics in the space of the last 15 minutes of an episode is a bigger mistake than this being the 'silly idea' of a dream as a plot device.

I totally disagree.

I think it would be awful if it was a dream and it's nothing to do with Dallas, it's to do withthe fact that the season finale would have been a pointless episode if it is a dream, a pointless ending to a great season

Who says that we will never see the events of the "missing year". I reckon they will be showing sporadic events through flashbacks, an interesting way of telling the story and to be honest completely refreshes the series (not that it needed to be refreshed but it's interesting no the less).

I really can't wait to see what they intend on doing with this. It was a brave move...I think/hope it will pay off.

Sonderval · 14-03-2006 6:48pm

What did Ragnarok Station Cylon want with Starbuck, I wonder? Something to do with her removed ovaries, no doubt...

Awesome episode. Brave way to push the show and it will certainly have us lusting for more come October.

So awesome

ButcherOfNog · 14-03-2006 6:53pm

Sonderval wrote:

What did Ragnarok Station Cylon want with Starbuck, I wonder? Something to do with her removed ovaries, no doubt...

..... and the fact that if anyone is gonna create some trouble for the cylons, it'd be her.

Haruspex · 14-03-2006 7:10pm

c0y0te wrote:

The cylons within - good ol' dean doing his bible thumping best - didn't make sense either. Where exactly did he turn up from on the planet? One minute its troops under fire, the next its dean time on recon.

This was actually addressed in the podcast and Moore also wasn't happy with how Cavil just suddenly seems to appear, calling it a "script issue" rather than one of how the scene was cut. Apparently the intention was that he was there all along hiding out with the resistance fighters and marines and that he emerges when the coast seems to be clear.

sprinkles · 14-03-2006 11:10pm

Haruspex wrote:

This was actually addressed in the podcast and Moore also wasn't happy with how Cavil just suddenly seems to appear, calling it a "script issue" rather than one of how the scene was cut. Apparently the intention was that he was there all along hiding out with the resistance fighters and marines and that he emerges when the coast seems to be clear.

Thats what I took from it...never thought about how he got there.....

The Corinthian · 15-03-2006 12:41am

Barry Aldwell wrote:

Another thing about the 6 setting off the nuke - technically she committed suicide, which she didn't want to do before as it is a sin. Change of heart, or was she compelled to show the Cylons where the fleet had settled?

Perhaps her intention to use the nuke to alert the Cylon fleet to their position and/or cause as much damage to the fleet as possible - that might make it more of a sacrifice than a suicide.

On the other hand, she was one damaged chick too.

spooydermot wrote:

Was that guy who comes looking for Starbuck the cylon that she tortured a few episodes back? I remember him saying that he remembers when this all happened before, only last time he was the torturer, in anycase I doubt he's up to any good.....

Just before he was blown out of the airlock he and Starbuck seemed to ‘connect’. So perhaps he fell for her - a kind of Stockholm’s Syndrome for toasters.

So, was there any indication of why the cylons returned? because the 2 Stockwells basically told them that the war was over, now obviously this could be a cylon trick, or perhaps there was some power struggle within the Cylon civilisation over the year that has passed and the 'religious fundamentalists' have regained control?

It’s quite possible that the Cylons are in the midst of a civil war (possibly even with certain models siding on one side or the other). It would explain how Stockwell’s parting ways speech contradicts the occupation of new Caprica a year later.

Have to say, something about when Baltar wakes up (a year later) with the women in the background made me think of Babylon 5....theres something of the Londo Molari possesed by the Shadows about him.

Yup, but then again Londo was very much a Faustian stock character.

sprinkles wrote:

Just on a nother note, the nuke "six" prob didn't get reborn due to all the interference from the nebula and what not, ala the arms hold up in the mini series, and I thought it was blaring obvious that Sharon and six in the presidents office where the "war heroes"

TBH, I would think that they wanted to kill off the Pegasus Six. There’s already going to be enough confusion between Caprica Six and the one in Gaius’ head. Anyhow, had she downloaded successfully after the nuke it wouldn’t have taken the Cylons a year to find New Caprica.

Peace · 15-03-2006 8:40am

The Corinthian wrote:

TBH, I would think that they wanted to kill off the Pegasus Six. There’s already going to be enough confusion between Caprica Six and the one in Gaius’ head. Anyhow, had she downloaded successfully after the nuke it wouldn’t have taken the Cylons a year to find New Caprica.

I think Pegasus Six is gone. Afterall the resurrection ship is kaput and they are too far for her to transfer back to wherever.

Also when Baltar asked "How did you find us?" the response is something like "Quite by accident. We were over a light year away and detected the signature of a nuke....". So I guess Pegasus Six wasn't about to tell em turn left at the nebual. Sure even if she was, we all know about women and their sense of direction .. eh lads eh? So i suppose the writer thought it would be a crap ending where Pegasus Six flew the cylon fleet into a black hole while tending her makeup.

Barry Aldwell · 15-03-2006 9:17am

Something which didn't occur to me at the time, but I saw elsewhere, and which makes a lot of sense if you think about it:

Pegasus Six was sitting around 2 feet from a thermonuclear blast which was powerful enough to destroy Cloud Nine and several surrounding ships. Anything that close to a nuclear blast would be vapourised almost instantly. Even if there was another resurrection ship in the area, if she doesn't have one hell of a fast download speed, her body would not have had time to die and then download it's consciousness fast enough before whatever part of her body that does the downloading was vapourised. So she's probably gone forever.

Stark · 15-03-2006 10:22am

Well on that front, I think the download system keeps a copy of the cylon's memories at all times (when it can) and can then rewind a split second or two at the time of death. Considering the number of toasters who were vapourised in various battles, that's the only way it would work I reckon.

Barry Aldwell · 15-03-2006 10:43am

Would explain how they gave Caprica Boomer all the memories of Galactica Boomer without having to kill Galactica Boomer..........

sprinkles · 15-03-2006 11:34am

Yeah I wondered about that, she can remember things that galacitca boomer did while on galactica even before she was killed. Strange. So the cylons memory is constantly being downloaded and shared to the other cylons of the same model!? If this is the case then why was it that the other 6 models didn't realise caprica 6's discontent with the "grand plan"?

CodeMonkey · 15-03-2006 11:53am

sprinkles wrote:

Yeah I wondered about that, she can remember things that galacitca boomer did while on galactica even before she was killed. Strange. So the cylons memory is constantly being downloaded and shared to the other cylons of the same model!? If this is the case then why was it that the other 6 models didn't realise caprica 6's discontent with the "grand plan"?

Who says the memory is constantly being downloaded and shared? There's only indication that memories are downloaded when one dies....and quite over analysing it, it's just a tv show

Scruff · 15-03-2006 3:29pm

wow. great double episode. Didn't see them all actually settling on the planet, thought the fleet would split with Peagsus left to defend the colony and Galactica would continue on. seems i was a bit wong

.

If what the priest cylon was saying about humanity and cylon going their seperate ways was true why have the cylons come back?
Think i'm going to have to read Starks spoilers...doubt i'll last till october.

Thought that Adama's reaction after the nuke explosion, particularily after what the president had told him was a bit odd. He had no quams about plotting to kill a supieror officer for the good of the fleet but did about rigging an election when he was told Baltar was a cylon sympathiser and about to become president.

Now, what to watch till october......:(

Peace · 15-03-2006 3:32pm

Prison Break should be starting back soon.

The Corinthian · 15-03-2006 4:05pm

Scruff wrote:

If what the priest cylon was saying about humanity and cylon going their seperate ways was true why have the cylons come back?

You're assuming that all the Cylons chose to agree with this.

He had no quams about plotting to kill a supieror officer for the good of the fleet but did about rigging an election when he was told Baltar was a cylon sympathiser and about to become president.

He did have quams and didn't kill the supieror officer in question.

Stark · 15-03-2006 5:03pm

sprinkles wrote:

Yeah I wondered about that, she can remember things that galacitca boomer did while on galactica even before she was killed. Strange. So the cylons memory is constantly being downloaded and shared to the other cylons of the same model!? If this is the case then why was it that the other 6 models didn't realise caprica 6's discontent with the "grand plan"?

No, it seemed to be a once off for Galactica Boomer/Caprica Boomer. And even then there were a few holes.

I guess the cylons have the option of a manual memory transfer but choose not to use it over cylon privacy concerns.

MarkR · 15-03-2006 5:53pm

Hmmm. System checkpoints or a manual backup. Would you like to restore your consciousness to an earlier time? Y/N?

The Corinthian · 15-03-2006 5:57pm

Maybe it's p2p memory?

Rev Hellfire · 15-03-2006 7:23pm

Scruff wrote:

If what the priest cylon was saying about humanity and cylon going their seperate ways was true why have the cylons come back?
You're assuming that all the Cylons chose to agree with this.

Brother Cavil said they had been offered a reprieve. Therefore it could be assumed they would be back at some point.

sprinkles · 15-03-2006 8:01pm

MarkR wrote:

Hmmm. System checkpoints or a manual backup. Would you like to restore your consciousness to an earlier time? Y/N?

LOL

savemejebus · 15-03-2006 10:33pm

sprinkles wrote:

Yeah I wondered about that, she can remember things that galacitca boomer did while on galactica even before she was killed. Strange. So the cylons memory is constantly being downloaded and shared to the other cylons of the same model!? If this is the case then why was it that the other 6 models didn't realise caprica 6's discontent with the "grand plan"?

don't forget the original galactica boomers corpse was still transmitting after death (remember what she said to adama on kobol), i think there is a lot we don't know about what the writers have in mind with regards cylon downloading

sprinkles · 15-03-2006 11:41pm

The main problem I had was;

Galactica boomer and caprica boomer (aka mother of child) where around at the same time.

Galactica Boomer dies.

Gets transferred to new body, memory intact.

Caprica Boomer somehow recalls scoring the chief and other galactica events...leading one to believe that the memories where also downloaded to her.

If this is the case then there are a number of holes in the whole downloading thing.

But then again............it's just a tv show

jor el · 16-03-2006 2:08pm

Way back when the whole Caprice Helo/Sharon sub-polt was starting, that Sharon had memoried of being on Galactica with Helo. She used their friendship to get closer to him, even though this particular model was never on Galactica, and the one on Galactica was still alive.

The big difference between Galactica Sharon and Carpica Sharon and say the various number six models, is that Galactica Sharon didn't know she was a Cylon. She was a sleeper agent. Perhaps the Cylons can read the memories of their sleeper agents in order to keep track of their progress, and perhaps also to upload new info and missions.

The show hasn't revealed much about the download process yet, so there are any number of possibilities open to the writers to explain how Sharon's memories got shared before her death. The simplest would probably be what I just said above regarding sleeper agents.

sprinkles · 16-03-2006 4:35pm

interesting theory.....

Ivan · 17-03-2006 4:31pm

Firstly, there would of be a civil war with the cylons. So that would explain where they had been for the last year. My reasoning for this is that those cannot be Caprica Six and Shot_Adama Boomer. Simply because (as we know from stockwells character and from the Downloaded episode) they wanted nothing more to do with humans. So why come to investigate a radioactive signature? Furthermore, why land on the planet, or look for their surrender or bring in a huge mass of troops.

This is clearly the faction that didnt agree about peace with humans.

The six on new caprica has to be the one that set off the nuke. While she doesnt agree with wiping out humans, she has joined them for whatever reason (couldnt get to the other cylon faction/doesnt completely agree with their point of view/or is simply afraid of harming baltar so wont lead the cylons to them/him). Its plaing to see its her as opposed to caprica six. Caprica six would be delighted to see the man she loves, almost regardless of circumstance. Where as nuke six would be incredibly pained that her last act wrought more pain and suffering, especially to baltar.

My biggest problem with all this, is how could the whole human race not believe that the nuke set off by nuke six proves that the cylons knew where they were and so they should leave.

Though as for the adama's believing that the cylons wouldnt find them, I dont think this is true. In fairness, this episode (and a multitude besides) prove that Admirial Adama (especially) follows the will of the people, even when he thinks they are wrong. So he would allow people to settle on New caprica. You can be sure he would do his damndest to protect the place and be ever vigilant but the fact of the matter is, after they were there for so long why should he believe they would find them?

Anyway, I highly enjoyed this episode a frakking brilliant ending to a brilliant season. I also, especially liked how each of the characters seemingly paired off and devolved into their tragic forms of themselves. I mean, alot of the characters (starbuck and colonel tigh especially) do not really belong in the military and to see how they would live without the constant threat of cylon attack is just a further note on how great the show is.

On a final note, I reserve the right to say that this was all a dream, should the time come...

Johnny Storm · 18-03-2006 11:10am

sprinkles wrote:

But then again............it's just a tv show

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooo ! :eek:

Stark · 18-03-2006 12:22pm

Ivan wrote:

The six on new caprica has to be the one that set off the nuke. While she doesnt agree with wiping out humans, she has joined them for whatever reason (couldnt get to the other cylon faction/doesnt completely agree with their point of view/or is simply afraid of harming baltar so wont lead the cylons to them/him). Its plaing to see its her as opposed to caprica six. Caprica six would be delighted to see the man she loves, almost regardless of circumstance. Where as nuke six would be incredibly pained that her last act wrought more pain and suffering, especially to baltar.

Well I still believe that Nuke Six is gone, never to be seen again. She would have been nowhere near a resurrection ship at the time the nuke went off.

I don't need any convincing that it was Caprica Six/Galactica who walked into Baltar's office. Motivations? Well Six always was a bit of a flake so who knows her motivations. It's very likely that she thinks she's doing the right thing by conquering humanity and converting them to the ways of their god. As for Galactica Boomer, last time we saw her, her memories of being a human were still raw. Since then she's had a year to live as a cylon with people who are like her and don't judge her for being a machine. She still feels some compassion towards the humans, not wanting to see them harmed but she's also more cylon now.

Season 2, Episode 20: "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part 2"

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