Season 2, Episode 20: "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part 2"

Fenster

The last new BSG until October. I'll refrain from saying anything about tonight's episode after I think I accidently spoiled the end of Kobol's Last Gleaming, last year..

EDIT: I forgot the poll. If a kind mod could edit one in, as I need to go to bed...

cuppa

october!! they having a laugh.

Haruspex

cuppa wrote:

october!! they having a laugh.

Unfortunately not...

SCI FI Channel announced that its hit original series Battlestar Galactica will return in October with a full 20-episode third season. Production on the third season begins in Vancouver, Canada, in April.

Source

sprinkles

They can't possibly expect me to wait that long.......those damn yanks!

Praetorian

Poll added as requested. I was hoping that I'd be strong enough not to watch this episode until October, but that's just not going to happen now is it?

Stark

Nope. And you know they're going to end it on one motherfrakker of a cliffhanger too.

Berns

Had a thought the fleet woulda been split from last episode. Some wanted onto the planet, others didnt. Didnt think all woulda hung around for that long though but could understand the decision till leave.

Honestly dunno what to expect from next season. Fleet go & find earth & come back with reinforcements??? Starbuck & rest on New Caprica sit back & do nuffin or fight & possibly die??? Baltar becomes exposed as a Cylon conspiricor, or sumfin. From the scenes I thought he was a cylon. With him in bed wif ur woman & at the presentation at the same time?????

Nice to see Dean Stockwell's joke as we thought last episode was real, lol. Found it amusing

cregser

BSG has set high standards for itself, but I wasn't really blown away by this ep. Especially after this weeks' 24. Didn't they land on a planet in the original BSG? Didn't that ruin the series? The writers are challenging themselves and thats good, I suppose. Although they've given themselves a years worth of flashbacks (ala Lost) which they could use to create backup plans or whatever, considering how much happened in the few weeks the first two seasons are based on.

The one thing that sticks out for me was what's the deal with the guy asking for Lt. Trace? Other than that, October doesn't seem too bad a wait.

Al should just call Ziggy he'll tell 'em what to do.

Berns

cregser wrote:

Al should just call Ziggy he'll tell 'em what to do.

Class You gotta go back again, & not set foot on the planet

MisterAnarchy

Its gotta all be a dream.
I cant imagine such a jump in time by the writers.

Fenster

I knew about what would happen back in November. Still though, seeing it all go through like that, I still caught myself hoping it would it would all go back to how it was in the end, like a mirror universe Star Trek episode.

Baltar was especially pathetic, toward the end. Then again, everyone wallowing in their own filth like that...

I'm looking forward to more of Dean Stockwell in season 3 if he indeed returns! I can imagine that he's a pricy actor to have on hand. All of his scenes are fantastic, especially in the brig (kudos to the camerawork there too).

There's lots to take in from tonight's episode, as there were indeed massive changes on the whole. Of course on the planetside at least, you can already make a fair guess as to how season 3 will open. Seven frakking months until season 3 begins

User45701

that was brillent reley enjoyed it
the year later thing reley through me off tho
i expected the clif hanger to be the revalation of one of the main case being a cylon

mewso

Thought it was an excellent episode. I really thought Baltar was dreaming the whole year but they surely wouldn't end in the middle of a dream. Now that the best dang thing on tv is over for a while anyone recommend something as filler over the comig months?

Fenster

musician wrote:

Thought it was an excellent episode. I really thought Baltar was dreaming the whole year but they surely wouldn't end in the middle of a dream. Now that the best dang thing on tv is over for a while anyone recommend something as filler over the comig months?

Porn my friend, lots and lots of porn.

_CreeD_

cregser wrote:

The one thing that sticks out for me was what's the deal with the guy asking for Lt. Trace?

Season 1, about midway through, Starbuck interrogates the same model and he already knew her by reputation at least. Leaving 2 options, he wasn't too far away from a ressurection point as he thought when he was set to die and this is the same personality, or he has the same prior knowledge of her.

Barry Aldwell

O

M

G

That is all (for now)

jor el

Damn that was good, such a fraking ending too. I was thinking it was a dream too, but it went on too long so I'd guess it's real. There's lots to fill in though, like Lee and Starbuck falling out quite badly, Sharon's baby doesn't look a year old, the Cylon from Ragnar station looking for Starbuck and so on.

I was wondering at the end which model six came into the room with Baltar. Was it the one from Pegasus that set off the nuke, or Baltar's six from Caprica? I thought it was Caprica six first, but at the end I started thinking it was Nuke six.

Anyway, it'll be time to re-watch the entire series soon I'd say, I'm sure there's still plenty to notice.

User45701

it has to be caprica six because in season 3 im betting she will be seing balter like the way he sees her

savemejebus

had to vote okay for this one, it started well and ended fantastically but the whole middle section was pathetic in comparison to previous episodes, i really was expecting more...still what a cliffhanger.

not sure i like the idea of a planetside based resistance story arc though, always found the caprica stuff mighty boring...

Praetorian

Unbelievable, that's all I have to say for now

MisterAnarchy

Starbuck is beginning to annoy me now ,she is such an emotional and irrational fool.
I cant imagine her commanding any group she is such a loose cannon.

_CreeD_

User45701 wrote:

it has to be caprica six because in season 3 im betting she will be seing balter like the way he sees her

You mean like she already has in Season 2 right? Also the 6-model he rescued was sitting all of 10 inches away from a nuke as it went off, I'm thinking the theory on the planetside one being her is not so likely, unless of course she remembered her Sun-factor...oh...Billion?...
I still think its a dream, besides the cliff-hanger situation they are left in most of the characters are too far gone to be useful in some kind of turnaround (The battleships are empty, Lee's gone tubby and Starbuck is just a mudpounder).

angelofdeath

yeah i was half expecting it to be lauras nightmare or something, i cant believe they just skipped a whole year of these characters lives like that and also not much explantation given about the rising star and what other ships were destroyed, how many killed etc etc

the one thing that really redeemed the episode for me was the arrival of the cylons at the end, great cg work there, and i hope we see more of the ragnar cylon Leobon, i think he's a great actor

User45701

i think that bsg has a bit more class than to just go "It was a dream" thats the type of crap u find in "Sunset Beach"

qBot

Ya, I have to agree with the dream theory too. While I was watching it infact I thought it was a dream sequence right from where the Baltar woke up after just assuming his presidency. At that point, I just thought all of the characters were acting out of character. The decisions they took just didn't seem like the choices they would make given the situation.

Boston

jor el wrote:

I was wondering at the end which model six came into the room with Baltar. Was it the one from Pegasus that set off the nuke, or Baltar's six from Caprica? I thought it was Caprica six first, but at the end I started thinking it was Nuke six.

Can't have been the nuke six, if it was her, she would have told them where to jump to. They said htey found hte planet by accident.

As for a dream, whose dream? There where to many relationships for just one person to know about, such as The baby, The chief and yer woman..ect baltar didn't know about these things, so it's not his, and other people didn't know baltar see's six, so the dream theory won't work.

It's hard to see where they can go from here,

Barry Aldwell

I'm undecided on the dream issue. Though it is set up well, I'm worried about how they could end it. It'd be pretty crap if the first thing of episode 301 was Baltar waking up from a nightmare and resigning his presidency

_CreeD_ wrote:

Lee's gone tubby

I loved the fact that the 2 Battlestars were visibly run down and undermanned, and the 2 Adamas looked tired and worn from over a year of endless orbits of New Caprica. I was dissapointed that they assumed that the Cylons would never find them - if anything the time on New Caprica would have been ideal to get the 2 Battlestars fully manned and stocked, and ready to defend the planet if needed. Starbuck et al didn't seem too happy down on New Caprica - why not have occasional rotations between duty on the Battlestars and time on the planet?

qBot

It was very open though wasn't it. They didn't explicitly state what or who the baby actually was as far as I remember. Plus the relationship with the chief is kinda obvious. They were working together. Maybe there was other stuff in it that he wouldn't have known but I can't remember any off the top of my head. He knew that the explosion could have alerted the cylons and some other stuff could have been in his sub-conscious that supposedly triggered the dream. I think his biggest guilt is helping the cylons destroy Caprica and when he discovers in his dream that he helped them again he is distraught. So IMO he will wake from this dream in the next season and decide not to populate New Caprica.

Barry Aldwell

LiouVille wrote:

Can't have been the nuke six, if it was her, she would have told them where to jump to. They said htey found hte planet by accident.

Unless the cylons have a new resurrection ship in the area, it's likely she perma-died. However, she indirectly did lead the cylons to the area, as she let off the nuke aboard Cloud 9 (which destroyed quite a few ships, I'd say a few thousand were lost from that), which left a radiation signature that the cylons detected. It's very possible that she knew this, and that she set off the nuke to punish Baltar and the fleet for settling on New Caprica, which she didn't want for some unknown reason.

qBot wrote:

It was very open though wasn't it. They didn't explicitly state what or who the baby actually was as far as I remember. Plus the relationship with the chief is kinda obvious. They were working together

It's been pretty obvious since season one that cally fancies the pants off the chief. The scene at the start of Lay Down Your Burdens Part 2 shows how much she cares for him.

Should be good when Caprica 6 and Galactica Boomer point out that Baltar is a traitor

qBot

Barry Aldwell wrote:

I was dissapointed that they assumed that the Cylons would never find them

Exactly, that just seemed completely out of character for both Baltar and Adama.

Nukem

Oklamo what a class Ep!
Bitch of a cliffhanger but great none the less. October my royal ass:mad:

Boston

Barry Aldwell wrote:

I was dissapointed that they assumed that the Cylons would never find them - if anything the time on New Caprica would have been ideal to get the 2 Battlestars fully manned and stocked, and ready to defend the planet if needed. Starbuck et al didn't seem too happy down on New Caprica - why not have occasional rotations between duty on the Battlestars and time on the planet?

That was the whole point yer woman roslin was making, that the cylons could find them, but she was ignored. Did you just miss that point?

Unless the cylons have a new resurrection ship in the area, it's likely she perma-died. However, she indirectly did lead the cylons to the area, as she let off the nuke aboard Cloud 9 (which destroyed quite a few ships, I'd say a few thousand were lost from that), which left a radiation signature that the cylons detected. It's very possible that she knew this, and that she set off the nuke to punish Baltar and the fleet for settling on New Caprica, which she didn't want for some unknown reason.

You're assuming allot, all you knwo is that cloud 9 was nuked, you don't know that other ships where taken out. Also you don't know that she didn't want them to settle on the planet. It could be a simple as she wanted to die, and wanted to take as many humans with her.

Barry Aldwell

LiouVille wrote:

That was the whole point yer woman roslin was making, that the cylons could find them, but she was ignored. Did you just miss that point?

Baltar insisted they settle on the planet. Admiral Adama should have insisted on maintaining a decent defensive force, namely having the 2 Battlestars as combat ready as possible

LiouVille wrote:

You're assuming allot, all you knwo is that cloud 9 was nuked, you don't know that other ships where taken out. Also you don't know that she didn't want them to settle on the planet. It could be a simple as she wanted to die, and wanted to take as many humans with her.

Watch the scene again, at least 3 other ships are destroyed, along with Cloud 9, which wasn't exactly the smallest ship in the fleet

Another thing about the 6 setting off the nuke - technically she committed suicide, which she didn't want to do before as it is a sin. Change of heart, or was she compelled to show the Cylons where the fleet had settled?

Johnny Storm

Boy! that ep really surprised me. Congrats to the writers for making such a big change but on teh other hand I kind of liked things the way they were
I also do not want Season 3 to be all about the resistance on New Caprica (Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)

Boston

Barry Aldwell wrote:

Baltar insisted they settle on the planet. Admiral Adama should have insisted on maintaining a decent defensive force, namely having the 2 Battlestars as combat ready as possible



Watch the scene again, at least 3 other ships are destroyed, along with Cloud 9, which wasn't exactly the smallest ship in the fleet

Another thing about the 6 setting off the nuke - technically she committed suicide, which she didn't want to do before as it is a sin. Change of heart, or was she compelled to show the Cylons where the fleet had settled?

No you watch it again, those ships are hit by the wave you don't see them break up. also look up what permanent settlement means

Johnny Storm

The more I think about this ep the more I'm thinking "What the f...?"
Season 3 better be good, I'm tellin' ya!

Cina

Um, remember resurrection ship? It's impossible for cloud nine six to be reborn, the resurrection ship was destroyed. Also, in "Download" Sharon and galactica Six clearly said they would work together to try and change the way the cylons treat the humans, hence why they didn't blow them up as soon as they saw them!

BKtje

I'd say a few thousand were lost from that

On one of the planet scenes it gives you the population of New Caprica City at 39,192. I guess there could be more than one settlement but i'd guess most people would be there. That minus the couple thousand (max?) still aboard the ships would put the death total of the nuke at about 5k people. Thats roughly 10% of the remaining population of the colonies (obviously some guess work involved). Looking forward to next season

you don't know that other ships where taken out.

You clearly see two smaller ships being destroyed and possibly more on the other side of the explosion but that would be a guess.

MisterAnarchy

Anyone notice that the number of survivors in the fleet has been constant around 45,000 for the whole series.
The number didnt seem to increase after the Pegasus joined the fleet.
Quite strange as it must have had a few thousand in the crew.

spooydermot

cregser wrote:

Al should just call Ziggy he'll tell 'em what to do.

Yeah, and Sam can pitch in too, now that he's not commanding the 'enterprise' anymore...:D

Fenster wrote:

I'm looking forward to more of Dean Stockwell in season 3 if he indeed returns! I can imagine that he's a pricy actor to have on hand. All of his scenes are fantastic, especially in the brig (kudos to the camerawork there too).

Stockwell is great in it, whatever their paying him, he's worth it!

Was that guy who comes looking for Starbuck the cylon that she tortured a few episodes back? I remember him saying that he remembers when this all happened before, only last time he was the torturer, in anycase I doubt he's up to any good.....

Johnny Storm wrote:

I also do not want Season 3 to be all about the resistance on New Caprica (Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)

Agreed...it's time to cut and run again...

So, was there any indication of why the cylons returned? because the 2 Stockwells basically told them that the war was over, now obviously this could be a cylon trick, or perhaps there was some power struggle within the Cylon civilisation over the year that has passed and the 'religious fundamentalists' have regained control?

Have to say, something about when Baltar wakes up (a year later) with the women in the background made me think of Babylon 5....theres something of the Londo Molari possesed by the Shadows about him.

If it turns out that this is a dream I will be very dissappointed, as was mentioned before that kind of 'get out of jail free card' when used over several episodes (IMO it's ok for a single episode as a portent of things to come or something) or during a series break is the staple of rubbish daytime TV, and I'd like to think BSG is above such devices.

..what an episode...what a show....loved the way that the chief, starbuck and err...the pregnant girl...are standing around, you know like 'the old crew' and it's 'what do we do now cap?' - reply:'the same thing we always do, fight 'em until we can't' ....brilliant, did anyone else think that the chief now looks like Kevin Smith / Silent Bob with the beard?

Actual speaking of B5, thats what's going to keep me ocupied (sci-fi wise) in between now and october...

OSiriS

I thought it was pretty obvious that it was Sharon and the Caprica Six, the 2 "cylon heros", that walked into the presidents office at the end. As cliffhangers go I didn;t find it anywhere near as agonising as the season 1 cliffhanger, or even the mid season 2 cliffhanger.

Like many I had been expecting to see Gius wake up again and everything have been a bad dream. The existence of the survivors looked to have become rather pathetic on that planet and it might have been serving as a warning. It has become far too drawn out though and is beyond retracting as a dream without looking like the writers are desperate for plotlines.

Boston

B-K-DzR wrote:

You clearly see two smaller ships being destroyed and possibly more on the other side of the explosion but that would be a guess.

Nope, you see them engloved in flames, thats all. Theres nothign "clear" about it. In any other series this would mean the ships where destroyed, but in battlestar it doesn't. In this show, ships can take nukes and keep going.

User45701

5 ships where destroyed watch it they all break into more than 2 pieces

sprinkles

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Its gotta all be a dream.
I cant imagine such a jump in time by the writers.

They couldn't do that..........could they?

Thought it was an ok episode for about 60 mins...then the ending made me rethink....it was a great episode. Takes the series in a new path and leaves the writers with a huge supply of ideas. The whole running and fighting thing as we have seen thus far would hve lasted 3 series but would have gotten stale and you'd see a lot of filler episodes creepeing in. With this though there can't be filler episodes.

Is there anyway I can freeze myself until october cause I ain't gonna be able to wait.....

Series 2 - 9.5/10

sprinkles

Just on a nother note, the nuke "six" prob didn't get reborn due to all the interference from the nebula and what not, ala the arms hold up in the mini series, and I thought it was blaring obvious that Sharon and six in the presidents office where the "war heroes"

sprinkles

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Anyone notice that the number of survivors in the fleet has been constant around 45,000 for the whole series.
The number didnt seem to increase after the Pegasus joined the fleet.
Quite strange as it must have had a few thousand in the crew.

Civilian numbers only I would assume, as the number didn't change despite losing people in battle...

Barry Aldwell

What are the odds that the first episode of season 3 will start with "One year earlier........."? :rolleyes:

Nuttzz

I thought the ending was very much like the fall of paris and the german troops marching through the city.

It will be interesting to see their intentions, They have said (through the Dean Stockwell character) that the no longer want to wipe out humanity.

I loved the way that Baltar has become a semi dictator with no regard for anyone but himself, he lives on colonial 1 while the rest of the population live in tents, he is hooked on some sort of drug, sleeping with 2 birds and issuing dictates like telling the union to get stuffed, he has become the self serving leader.

jor el

sprinkles wrote:

Civilian numbers only I would assume, as the number didn't change despite losing people in battle...

Bzzt, wrong. The number of survivors is shown in the title credits on each episode, at the point where it's showing Roslin being sworn in. This number changes in each episode as people die or new ones are found. All through the 2nd half of this series the number has been at around 49,000, 49550 at the start of episode 20. On New Caprica, at the end of this episode, it was down to 39,192, so there were over 10,000 people killed in the last episode. I'd imagine most of them were taken out by the nuke.

And yes, on closer inspection it does appear to be Baltar's Six at the end. Still doesn't explain why the Cylons are here too though. They packed up and left Old Caprica saying they shouldn't have even attacked the humans at all, now they turn up and they seem to be occupying New Caprica too. Do they want to live alongside the humans?

OSiriS

Just just before Pegasus showed up the count was 47,800. Afterwards the population count was 49,600

BKtje

theres nothign "clear" about it.

I guess we gonna have to disagree. I can "clearly" see at least three ships breaking up (not just on fire) and then exploding. Military ships may be able to take a nuke but those civilian crafts broke up quite easily.