Season 2, Episode 20: "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part 2"

Boston

Barry Aldwell wrote:

I was dissapointed that they assumed that the Cylons would never find them - if anything the time on New Caprica would have been ideal to get the 2 Battlestars fully manned and stocked, and ready to defend the planet if needed. Starbuck et al didn't seem too happy down on New Caprica - why not have occasional rotations between duty on the Battlestars and time on the planet?

That was the whole point yer woman roslin was making, that the cylons could find them, but she was ignored. Did you just miss that point?

Unless the cylons have a new resurrection ship in the area, it's likely she perma-died. However, she indirectly did lead the cylons to the area, as she let off the nuke aboard Cloud 9 (which destroyed quite a few ships, I'd say a few thousand were lost from that), which left a radiation signature that the cylons detected. It's very possible that she knew this, and that she set off the nuke to punish Baltar and the fleet for settling on New Caprica, which she didn't want for some unknown reason.

You're assuming allot, all you knwo is that cloud 9 was nuked, you don't know that other ships where taken out. Also you don't know that she didn't want them to settle on the planet. It could be a simple as she wanted to die, and wanted to take as many humans with her.

Barry Aldwell

LiouVille wrote:

That was the whole point yer woman roslin was making, that the cylons could find them, but she was ignored. Did you just miss that point?

Baltar insisted they settle on the planet. Admiral Adama should have insisted on maintaining a decent defensive force, namely having the 2 Battlestars as combat ready as possible

LiouVille wrote:

You're assuming allot, all you knwo is that cloud 9 was nuked, you don't know that other ships where taken out. Also you don't know that she didn't want them to settle on the planet. It could be a simple as she wanted to die, and wanted to take as many humans with her.

Watch the scene again, at least 3 other ships are destroyed, along with Cloud 9, which wasn't exactly the smallest ship in the fleet

Another thing about the 6 setting off the nuke - technically she committed suicide, which she didn't want to do before as it is a sin. Change of heart, or was she compelled to show the Cylons where the fleet had settled?

Johnny Storm

Boy! that ep really surprised me. Congrats to the writers for making such a big change but on teh other hand I kind of liked things the way they were
I also do not want Season 3 to be all about the resistance on New Caprica (Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)

Boston

Barry Aldwell wrote:

Baltar insisted they settle on the planet. Admiral Adama should have insisted on maintaining a decent defensive force, namely having the 2 Battlestars as combat ready as possible



Watch the scene again, at least 3 other ships are destroyed, along with Cloud 9, which wasn't exactly the smallest ship in the fleet

Another thing about the 6 setting off the nuke - technically she committed suicide, which she didn't want to do before as it is a sin. Change of heart, or was she compelled to show the Cylons where the fleet had settled?

No you watch it again, those ships are hit by the wave you don't see them break up. also look up what permanent settlement means

Johnny Storm

The more I think about this ep the more I'm thinking "What the f...?"
Season 3 better be good, I'm tellin' ya!

Cina

Um, remember resurrection ship? It's impossible for cloud nine six to be reborn, the resurrection ship was destroyed. Also, in "Download" Sharon and galactica Six clearly said they would work together to try and change the way the cylons treat the humans, hence why they didn't blow them up as soon as they saw them!

BKtje

I'd say a few thousand were lost from that

On one of the planet scenes it gives you the population of New Caprica City at 39,192. I guess there could be more than one settlement but i'd guess most people would be there. That minus the couple thousand (max?) still aboard the ships would put the death total of the nuke at about 5k people. Thats roughly 10% of the remaining population of the colonies (obviously some guess work involved). Looking forward to next season

you don't know that other ships where taken out.

You clearly see two smaller ships being destroyed and possibly more on the other side of the explosion but that would be a guess.

MisterAnarchy

Anyone notice that the number of survivors in the fleet has been constant around 45,000 for the whole series.
The number didnt seem to increase after the Pegasus joined the fleet.
Quite strange as it must have had a few thousand in the crew.

spooydermot

cregser wrote:

Al should just call Ziggy he'll tell 'em what to do.

Yeah, and Sam can pitch in too, now that he's not commanding the 'enterprise' anymore...:D

Fenster wrote:

I'm looking forward to more of Dean Stockwell in season 3 if he indeed returns! I can imagine that he's a pricy actor to have on hand. All of his scenes are fantastic, especially in the brig (kudos to the camerawork there too).

Stockwell is great in it, whatever their paying him, he's worth it!

Was that guy who comes looking for Starbuck the cylon that she tortured a few episodes back? I remember him saying that he remembers when this all happened before, only last time he was the torturer, in anycase I doubt he's up to any good.....

Johnny Storm wrote:

I also do not want Season 3 to be all about the resistance on New Caprica (Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)

Agreed...it's time to cut and run again...

So, was there any indication of why the cylons returned? because the 2 Stockwells basically told them that the war was over, now obviously this could be a cylon trick, or perhaps there was some power struggle within the Cylon civilisation over the year that has passed and the 'religious fundamentalists' have regained control?

Have to say, something about when Baltar wakes up (a year later) with the women in the background made me think of Babylon 5....theres something of the Londo Molari possesed by the Shadows about him.

If it turns out that this is a dream I will be very dissappointed, as was mentioned before that kind of 'get out of jail free card' when used over several episodes (IMO it's ok for a single episode as a portent of things to come or something) or during a series break is the staple of rubbish daytime TV, and I'd like to think BSG is above such devices.

..what an episode...what a show....loved the way that the chief, starbuck and err...the pregnant girl...are standing around, you know like 'the old crew' and it's 'what do we do now cap?' - reply:'the same thing we always do, fight 'em until we can't' ....brilliant, did anyone else think that the chief now looks like Kevin Smith / Silent Bob with the beard?

Actual speaking of B5, thats what's going to keep me ocupied (sci-fi wise) in between now and october...

OSiriS

I thought it was pretty obvious that it was Sharon and the Caprica Six, the 2 "cylon heros", that walked into the presidents office at the end. As cliffhangers go I didn;t find it anywhere near as agonising as the season 1 cliffhanger, or even the mid season 2 cliffhanger.

Like many I had been expecting to see Gius wake up again and everything have been a bad dream. The existence of the survivors looked to have become rather pathetic on that planet and it might have been serving as a warning. It has become far too drawn out though and is beyond retracting as a dream without looking like the writers are desperate for plotlines.

Boston

B-K-DzR wrote:

You clearly see two smaller ships being destroyed and possibly more on the other side of the explosion but that would be a guess.

Nope, you see them engloved in flames, thats all. Theres nothign "clear" about it. In any other series this would mean the ships where destroyed, but in battlestar it doesn't. In this show, ships can take nukes and keep going.

User45701

5 ships where destroyed watch it they all break into more than 2 pieces

sprinkles

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Its gotta all be a dream.
I cant imagine such a jump in time by the writers.

They couldn't do that..........could they?

Thought it was an ok episode for about 60 mins...then the ending made me rethink....it was a great episode. Takes the series in a new path and leaves the writers with a huge supply of ideas. The whole running and fighting thing as we have seen thus far would hve lasted 3 series but would have gotten stale and you'd see a lot of filler episodes creepeing in. With this though there can't be filler episodes.

Is there anyway I can freeze myself until october cause I ain't gonna be able to wait.....

Series 2 - 9.5/10

sprinkles

Just on a nother note, the nuke "six" prob didn't get reborn due to all the interference from the nebula and what not, ala the arms hold up in the mini series, and I thought it was blaring obvious that Sharon and six in the presidents office where the "war heroes"

sprinkles

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Anyone notice that the number of survivors in the fleet has been constant around 45,000 for the whole series.
The number didnt seem to increase after the Pegasus joined the fleet.
Quite strange as it must have had a few thousand in the crew.

Civilian numbers only I would assume, as the number didn't change despite losing people in battle...

Barry Aldwell

What are the odds that the first episode of season 3 will start with "One year earlier........."? :rolleyes:

Nuttzz

I thought the ending was very much like the fall of paris and the german troops marching through the city.

It will be interesting to see their intentions, They have said (through the Dean Stockwell character) that the no longer want to wipe out humanity.

I loved the way that Baltar has become a semi dictator with no regard for anyone but himself, he lives on colonial 1 while the rest of the population live in tents, he is hooked on some sort of drug, sleeping with 2 birds and issuing dictates like telling the union to get stuffed, he has become the self serving leader.

jor el

sprinkles wrote:

Civilian numbers only I would assume, as the number didn't change despite losing people in battle...

Bzzt, wrong. The number of survivors is shown in the title credits on each episode, at the point where it's showing Roslin being sworn in. This number changes in each episode as people die or new ones are found. All through the 2nd half of this series the number has been at around 49,000, 49550 at the start of episode 20. On New Caprica, at the end of this episode, it was down to 39,192, so there were over 10,000 people killed in the last episode. I'd imagine most of them were taken out by the nuke.

And yes, on closer inspection it does appear to be Baltar's Six at the end. Still doesn't explain why the Cylons are here too though. They packed up and left Old Caprica saying they shouldn't have even attacked the humans at all, now they turn up and they seem to be occupying New Caprica too. Do they want to live alongside the humans?

OSiriS

Just just before Pegasus showed up the count was 47,800. Afterwards the population count was 49,600

BKtje

theres nothign "clear" about it.

I guess we gonna have to disagree. I can "clearly" see at least three ships breaking up (not just on fire) and then exploding. Military ships may be able to take a nuke but those civilian crafts broke up quite easily.

Dunners

Finally got to see this as I was away at the weekend and I can sum it all up in one word and one word only, interesting.

The beginning with the fight off Caprica was great, Dean Stockwell was cracking (was him put out the airlock??) and the build up to the election was brilliant too. Then it went all meh in the middle up until the point where Pegasus Six went all psycho (Baltar pushed her too far too quick methinks?) and blew up at least four (yes I was sad enough to go back and check) ships. The the ending was brilliant if a bit surreal. The one year jump was somewhat off putting but it was great to see how everyone got on on New Caprica.

I can see the last third being a dream sequence but still not sure if I want it to be. I can see Adama losing faith after a year of literally going in circles and I liked the way they had him with the moustache, just as he was in the flashbacks of his low times before re-joining the fleet.

All in all an interesting episode as I said, can't wait for season 3 to see how they plan to develop it all. What do the Cylons want? Will the fleet return? Will Baltar be exposed? Can Anders survive? Is it all a dream????

Cruel and Unusual punishment these cliffhangers, CRUEL AND UNUSUAL!!!

Yakuza

They always had the population correct if I recall correctly. I must check again, but it was around 49000 at the end of the miniseries/beginning of "33", then it dropped back to 47700 ish for the next one ("Water"?), taking into account the fact that 1300-odd were lost when they destroyed the liner.

It stayed around that until the Pegasus showed up when it went up to 49500ish. From this I'd deduce that a fully-crewed Battlestar has around 2000 personnel on it.

As for the numbers killed in the Rising Star explosion etc, I'd put that around 8,000 - that's assuming there's about 2000 on the two skeleton-crewed Battlestars and the other ships still in the fleet.

What I'd like to know is what happened to the Sharon/Six models that killed Deanna Biers on Caprica. Were they forgiven for killing a fellow Cylon, and were they really able to change the policy of the entire Cylon population?

October???? WAAAAHHH!!!!

CodeMonkey

sprinkles wrote:

Just on a nother note, the nuke "six" prob didn't get reborn due to all the interference from the nebula and what not, ala the arms hold up in the mini series, and I thought it was blaring obvious that Sharon and six in the presidents office where the "war heroes"

Yeah that has to be caprica 6 cause it was a meeting of leaders. Also she has platinum blonde hair while nuke 6 has a more natural brown/blonde hair colour. Also cylons near BSG can't resurrect due to BSG blowing up the resurrection ship. There wouldn't be another resurrection ship near them unless they've been found. Seriously doubt we'll see nuke 6 again.

CodeMonkey

Yakuza wrote:

What I'd like to know is what happened to the Sharon/Six models that killed Deanna Biers on Caprica. Were they forgiven for killing a fellow Cylon, and were they really able to change the policy of the entire Cylon population?

The sharon and six model that killed the xena model are the 2 war heroes. They explained what they were going to do and how long they got to do it before zeus ressurrects xena and give her the power of the gods....oh wait...

MisterAnarchy

What do the Cylons want?

To procreate most likely.

Rev Hellfire

MisterAnarchy wrote:

To procreate most likely.

Don't we all.

Azza

I reckon if the end was not a dream then its sent Guis down a dark path he can't recover from. While unintentionally guilty of giving the cylons insider information regarding the colonies defense system giving the nuke to the Gina model was really unforgivable. Incidently did not like the way Adama concluded that Baltars nuke was stolen. Thought that might not be uncovered till later. Baltar will go all out to cover up the fact he gave Gina the nuke I reckon. Be shame though I have been waiting for 2 seasons now for him to turn the tables on 6.

I reckon however the 6 with baltar in her head will do something similar and ***** up the cylons plans later on. Its my theory that in the first episode of the pilot its Baltar in her head who she is talking to that when you see here talking to a person off camera and saying something like " about time you showed up". I reckon 6 with baltar in here head will become important as season 3 goes on.

Goodshape

'Great' episode. The middle section was definitly a bit slow (although still interesting) but the first and last acts where amazing.

One year later? What a thing to do. Totally took me by surprise when I was beginning to think it would end with a 'settling on the planet / strange new world' type thing. Could really keep things interesting if they play their cards right. I'm not too thrilled about the prospect of a prolonged planetary campaign, but I suppose I could have faith that BSG will do it right.

October's far, far to far away

Yakuza

CodeMonkey wrote:

The sharon and six model that killed the xena model are the 2 war heroes. They explained what they were going to do and how long they got to do it before zeus ressurrects xena and give her the power of the gods....oh wait...

Yep, I'd figured that out...what I meant was I'd like to see another cylon-centric story, detailing how Sharon/Six managed to change the Cylon policy.

I hope we get to see some flashbacks to cover the year between the creation of the settlement and the surrender.

Also...oh my Gods Adama should shave off that frakking 'tash. Makes him look like a pimp

savemejebus

i hope to god that season 3 isn't all flashbacks from variouss characters points of view to show how everthing changed over a year. That would be too tedious