UFOLOGY Ireland

Ziycon

If anyone would be interested in this please post your support as this would'nt come under the topic paanormal.
Thanks.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054857345

Zillah

No.

UFOs fit perfectly into paranormal. It is a phenomenon not yet explained by normal science, perhaps its a natural event, maybe its aliens, either way its paranormal.

Or its governments doing secret projects, inwhich case its conspiracies forums. there should not be a UFO forum.

Kernel

I'm very interested in UFO phenomenon, but I don't think you'll get a new forum set up specifically for it, since there aren't enough UFO related posts, and they can either go into Paranormal or Conspiracy.

Lately, after a tremendous start, Conspiracy Theories forum isn't even getting a lot of support. I think it's due to it being dumped in the Hosted->Public section, and due to threads being pruned too soon though.

Ziycon

If thats the case, am i able to post sightings in Ireland as i recieve them?

Zillah

You question is not very clear.

Ziycon

Like i mean when a sighting is reported, is it possible to post the sighting here and get feedback on it??

Kernel

Ziycon wrote:

Like i mean when a sighting is reported, is it possible to post the sighting here and get feedback on it??

I'm sure that wouldn't be a problem, check with Solas about it.

Zillah

Of course you could post it here! How much good it would do is questionable though. If you have photographs we could take a look etc, but the only way your really going to get information is to contact airports and get some official responses, see if there was anything detected at that time and what not.

solas

am i able to post sightings in Ireland as i recieve them?

absolutely. there have been postings on the subject before, just be prepared for lots of questions.

Ziycon

Zillah wrote:

Of course you could post it here! How much good it would do is questionable though. If you have photographs we could take a look etc, but the only way your really going to get information is to contact airports and get some official responses, see if there was anything detected at that time and what not.

I understand what your saying but the contactign airports and military press office is all done by ourselves aswell, but i've found if you let people know about a sighting it sometimes brings forward video or photo proof, it even can prove it was a fake!

Zillah

Ziycon wrote:

I understand what your saying but the contactign airports and military press office is all done by ourselves aswell, but i've found if you let people know about a sighting it sometimes brings forward video or photo proof, it even can prove it was a fake!

Don't get me wrong, my point is simply that through this forum all you get is a bunch of people interested in the subject. We're not professionals, we're curious amateurs, but yes, even we can prove fake videos to be so. So yeah, share all you like.

Ziycon

Thats what i want, i get professionals input all the time, but i feels amateurs have the best input for the simple reason that they may only follow it and therefore are not trying to base what happened on previous cases, they can see the sighting in a different perspective if you will!

Zillah

Well then yeah, I think the majority of us here would love you to post up pictures or videos of sighting of anything unusual.

Thanx 4 The Fish

I think it would be better to sticky a single thread rather than start a new one every time there is a new sighting. I am not sure how often there are sightings but it would firstly keep them all together and secondly give the topic a bit of visibility.

Ziycon

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

I think it would be better to sticky a single thread rather than start a new one every time there is a new sighting. I am not sure how often there are sightings but it would firstly keep them all together and secondly give the topic a bit of visibility.

not a bad idea, but its upto the mods!

Kernel

Ziycon wrote:

not a bad idea, but its upto the mods!

What do you think is the origin of UFOs?

HomunQlus

What are UFOs? Basically it stands for Unidentified Flying Object. Due to the press, we immediately associate the acronym UFO with aliens. But let's keep to the facts: In the end it is a device that can obviously fly above the ground, which we don't know.

There are many theories around to what UFOs are and where they come from. As said before, normal science has not yet proven what these things really are.

However, fact is, that UFOs have been a lot in human history. It is believed that UFOs were always here, not only from the 1940s or so. There are reports of sightings from the 17th and 18th century also. And even more back in time. Supposedly even in ancient Egypt they supposedly were there.

The question however remains: What are these things? And where do they come from?


Theory 1: Advanced civilization visits us

This is the most common theory among them all. An advanced civilization has solved the riddle of fundamental questions about the fabric of the universe and have built devices that are able to go beyond the speed of light, thus visiting any place in the universe they want. They know about Earth for some time and know that we inhabitate this planet. The reason for their visits is not explained in these theories, many people argue about it. However, most believe that they come to study us, which may explain why Aliens take humans aboard their ships to conduct painful experiments.

From the technology point of view, these theories imply highly sophisticated and advanced technologies that are not able to beyond the speed of light, but that are able to fold space around it, thus creating some sort of wormhole, making it possible to travel thousands or even millions of lightyears in a very short amount of time. The material the UFOs are made of, would play a vital role in this technology.


Theory 2: Humans from a far future visit us

Although pretty much explained by science to be impossible, some people believe that UFOs are piloted by humans from a distant future, that have been able to solve the riddle of time travel. They simply come to Earth to see how we have lived in the past.

This would also imply that humanity seems to be able to solve some fundamental questions to the fabric of the universe.


Theory 3: Flying Saucers originate from Hitler times

It should be known by now that Hitler indeed did research in devices called "Flying Discs" (Flugscheiben or Reichsflugscheiben in German). I have seen pictures that are pretty authentic, that show that Hitler and the "VRIL society" (Die VRIL Gesellschaft) worked on those things, some of them could actually fly.

Some of you might have heard of things like "Haunebu", "Andromeda" and the "Aldebaran Project".

Some believe that the USA had spys in that network, acquired information, and brought this to "Dreamland", which is Area 51. At this place they test new aircrafts, but it is also believed that saucers are kept there for research in how they work and what they are made of.

The US goverment has never denied the existence of Area 51, what they are not telling you is what's going on in there.


In case it are aliens, where do they come from?

That's the million-euro-question. Science has not found a planet in newly discovered solar systems that are capable of supporting life. So we can only speculate about the origin of the aliens, if they exist.

You have to consider, that if the universe is indeed unlimited in size, the chance for another Earth-like planet is 1:unlimited. Therefore there must be Earth-like planets out there.

The best bets are Orion and Sirius, as the Pyramids of Gizeh are built in the exact constellation Orion. It is believed amongst many that the so-called Gods were indeed aliens, that helped with the construction of the Pyramids.

However, Alpha Centauri is the next solar system near us, but as far as I know, no planets suitable for life were found.

But what about next door? Whazzup with Mars? It is believed that Mars was once capable of supporting life, at least there has been water, which has conclusively proven. What exactly happened to the planet is probably just age, the planet was no longer able to hold its atmosphere. It might be possible that a civilization once lived on Mars and that they knew about us. Many believe this because they believe to have found remains of big artificial structures on Mars that look like Pyramids - so they say.


So what are UFOs then?

All answers we have are theories, thus the answers are inconclusive. What ever they are, and where ever they come from, and if it are aliens, let's hope they come in peace.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Ziycon wrote:

not a bad idea, but its upto the mods!

I am a mod.

Zillah

HomunQlus wrote:

However, fact is, that UFOs have been a lot in human history. It is believed that UFOs were always here, not only from the 1940s or so. There are reports of sightings from the 17th and 18th century also. And even more back in time. Supposedly even in ancient Egypt they supposedly were there.

There's all sorts of drawings throughout history that seem to depict flying saucers. The vast majority of the encounters in the bible could easily be seen as close encounters in a modern context.

From the technology point of view, these theories imply highly sophisticated and advanced technologies that are not able to beyond the speed of light, but that are able to fold space around it, thus creating some sort of wormhole, making it possible to travel thousands or even millions of lightyears in a very short amount of time. The material the UFOs are made of, would play a vital role in this technology.

Thats complete speculation. By definition we are talking about technologies beyond our ken and it is innappropriate to assume that they travel faster than light or that they create wormholes. They may approach transport in a manner beyond ou conception...

Theory 2: Humans from a far future visit us

Although pretty much explained by science to be impossible, some people believe that UFOs are piloted by humans from a distant future, that have been able to solve the riddle of time travel. They simply come to Earth to see how we have lived in the past.

Relativity is being updated all the time. Time travel to some extent is quite theoretically possible, but to what degree no one can be sure.

Theory 3: Flying Saucers originate from Hitler times

It should be known by now that Hitler indeed did research in devices called "Flying Discs" snip
The US goverment has never denied the existence of Area 51, what they are not telling you is what's going on in there.

The US government has declassiffied documents and videos of their "flying disc" research. I believe it was done in the sixties. There nothing cladestine about it, they used perfectly normal technologies to do it. They were crap though.

It does raise the question, if they'll tell us this much, then what aren't they telling us?

You have to consider, that if the universe is indeed unlimited in size, the chance for another Earth-like planet is 1:unlimited. Therefore there must be Earth-like planets out there.

Fallacy. Space is unlimited, not matter. However, there is soooo much matter that for all intents and purposes the chances of life existing gets damn close to 1.

The best bets are Orion and Sirius, as the Pyramids of Gizeh are built in the exact constellation Orion. It is believed amongst many that the so-called Gods were indeed aliens, that helped with the construction of the Pyramids.

Isn't that the storyline for Stargate?

And by "exact constellation of orion" do you mean orion's belt? As in, three dots in a straight line...?

However, Alpha Centauri is the next solar system near us, but as far as I know, no planets suitable for life were found.

Correct.

But what about next door? Whazzup with Mars? It is believed that Mars was once capable of supporting life, at least there has been water, which has conclusively proven. What exactly happened to the planet is probably just age, the planet was no longer able to hold its atmosphere.

Mars lost her magnetic field where her core stopped spinning. It was inevitable that her atmosphere would be slowly stripped away. The same thing could happen earth eventually. And Mars is no older than earth. They don't know why it happened.

It might be possible that a civilization once lived on Mars and that they knew about us. Many believe this because they believe to have found remains of big artificial structures on Mars that look like Pyramids - so they say.

Pff, thats so ninties. More recent, higher definition images show the "structures" and the infamous "face" to be natural formations, smoothed out due to low resolution.

All answers we have are theories, thus the answers are inconclusive. What ever they are, and where ever they come from, and if it are aliens, let's hope they come in peace.

My personal opinion is that if it is aliens then they don't come in peace, they come in mild interest and probably a little pity, maybe even nostalgia.

solas

thread stickied.

Ziycon

Well if it is aliens, its possible that they do cme in peace, take for example, the world we live in there is a divide, people that follow rules and laws and the other half that dont, it could simplely be the same for the alien race that there is a group that are more into finding out information by there own means, thats if its aliens.

Theres another theory that the UFOs are a natural phenomanon or are an earth bound creation, they could possibly be a type of animal or creature that has not been discrovered yet!

To be totally honest, im a steady minded person and very open indeed but i really do think there is more behind UFOs then meets ther eye:

The evidence points to the fact that Roswell was a real incident and that indeed an alien craft did crash and that material was recovered from that crash site, says Mitchell, who became the sixth man on the moon in the Apollo 14 mission. Mitchell doesn't say he's seen a UFO. But he says he's met with high-ranking military officers who admitted involvement with alien technology and hardware. Cooper told a U.N. committee recently, Every day in the U.S.A., our radar instruments capture objects of form and composition unknown to us. Cooper speculates that public skepticism toward UFOs will shift dramatically.

Astronaut Gordon Cooper and Ed Mitchell in an interview.

Kernel

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the ultra-terrestrial hypothesis, which can tie in with many other paranormal phenomenon of high-strangeness. The field of ufology is peppered with disinformation and myth at this stage though.

Anyway, I'd advise checking out:
http://www.disclosureproject.org/

For some fairly convincing testimonies. They have a dvd which is available on torrents, called 'the disclosure project'.

For anyone interested in the more earthly explanation of secret weapons, possibly developed by the Nazis, this book is well worth a read:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0099414988/qid=1133923738/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-4048441-9333406

For ultraterrestrial tie in with UFO/MiBs, this is a classic book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0340824468/qid=1133923787/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl/202-4048441-9333406

For Alien Abduction check out:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671851942/qid=1133923855/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_10_5/202-4048441-9333406

You could also check out the Hutchison Effect for information on possible methods of propulsion/distortion of space/time which may be used by many of these craft (those which aren't anomolous sightings) - this also ties in with The Philadelphia Experiment (Nikola Tesla / Von Neumann project in the 40's):

http://www.americanantigravity.com/hutchison.html

solas

I must admit, I'm waiting for the aliens to arrive and save humanity.

now, if something like this were to happen today, say, over the whitehouse, it would indeed be a brilliant sight.

April 1561 - A War In Heaven?
One of the most astounding of documented sightings of aerial phenomena took place in 1561 over Nuremberg, Germany. What was described could only be called a war in the heavens, with a wide variety of craft ranging from spheres to spear-like cylinders to crosses. The sky was apparently filled with the machines, clashing in battle. Comets and such were well identified and charted in this period, so it is highly unlikely that what the people witnessed was merely a celestial phenomenon like a 'meteor shower', as some debunkers suggest. Rather, what is described are physical objects of unique detail and shapes, in 'battle' for over an hour. The battle was such that a winner was perceived as well. Spheroid UFOs were seen emerging from cylindrical 'motherships'. At the conclusion of the battle, it seems a magnificent, black, spear-like super-ship of some kind came upon the scene...

It began at dawn, as dozens, if not hundreds, of crosses, globes and tubes fought each other above the city. It ended an hour later, when "the globes in the small and large rods flew into the sun," and several of the other objects crashed to earth and vanished in a thick cloud of smoke.
According to the Nuremberg Gazette, the "dreadful apparition" filled the morning sky with "cylindrical shapes from which emerged black, red, orange and blue-white spheres that darted about." Between the spheres, there were "crosses with the color of blood." This "frightful spectacle" was witnessed by "numerous men and women." Afterwards, a "black, spear-like object" appeared. (Source: http://www.newsoftheodd.com/article1019.html )
The author of the Gazette warned that "the God-fearing will by no means discard these signs, but will take it to heart as a warning of their merciful Annunciation with St. Emidius Father in heaven, will mend their lives and faithfully beg God, that he avert His wrath, including the well-deserved punishment, on us, so that we may, temporarily here and perpetually there, live as His children."

hmmm..wishful thinking.

Zillah wrote:

My personal opinion is that if it is aliens then they don't come in peace, they come in mild interest and probably a little pity, maybe even nostalgia.

April 26, 1986 - Chernobyl Reactor Accident UFO

Roughly 180 tons of enriched uranium were in the reactor.
If a large blast had happened, half of Europe would not
currently be depicted on any maps.

Eyewitnesses say that they saw an UFO hovering above the exploded reactor.

Sixteen years have passed since the disaster at the Chernobyl nuclear plant on April 26, 1986. The explosion happened at 1:23 a.m. Tons of radioactive products were emitted into the atmosphere. The machine shop of the plant was gripped with fire, and the fire was about to move on to the third power-generating unit of the plant. Firemen managed to extinguish the fire several hours later. Many of them died later of radiation exposure.

Much has been written about the Chernobyl disaster, both in Russia and abroad. It seems that the physical nature of the tragedy has determined, as well as the people who were responsible for it. The fourth power-generating unit was supposed to be repaired. Yet, before shutting it down, the administration of the plant decided to perform several experiments. Steam delivery was cut to one of the turbogenerators in order to discover the period of time that electric power would still be generated due to the rotation of the rotor. The experiment was not well-organized. There was another test conducted simultaneously: the study of turbine vibration.

They started decreasing the capacity of the generating unit at 1 a.m. on April 25. The emergency cooling system of the reactor was shut down at 2 p.m. This was supposed to stop the reactor.

However, the Kievenergo energy company did not know anything about these tests. An energy control officer did not allow the fourth generating unit of the plant to be stopped. These were the prerequisites of the tragedy. Many people are still suffering.

The explosion was very large, but, luckily, it was a thermal blast. The fourth power generating unit was basically destroyed by overheated steam. There was no nuclear explosion. Roughly 180 tons of enriched uranium were in the reactor. If a large blast had happened, half of Europe would not currently be depicted on any maps.

There are many theories to explain such luck. One of the theories is that there was help from an Unidentified Flying Object. When troublesome events started to occur, some people saw a spaceship hovering above the fourth generating unit of the Chernobyl plant. Eyewitnesses say that an UFO was there for six hours and that hundreds of people saw it. People started writing about it only two years after the catastrophe. Of course, such information appeared in magazines on ufology. As it is generally believed, serious people don't read such magazines and journals.

Here is what Mikhail Varitsky had to say: "I and other people from my team went to the site of the blast at night. We saw a ball of fire, and it was slowly flying in the sky. I think the ball was six or eight meters in diameter. Then, we saw two rays of crimson light stretching towards the fourth unit. The object was some 300 meters from the reactor. The event lasted for about three minutes. The lights of the object went out and it flew away in the northwestern direction."

The UFO brought the radiation level down. The level was decreased almost four times. This probably prevented a nuclear blast.

Three years later (on September 16, 1989), the fourth power-generating unit emitted radiation into the atmosphere. Several hours later, a doctor saw an object in the sky above the Chernobyl plant. Doctor Gospina described it as "amber-like." She said she could see the top and the bottom of it as well.

In October of 1990, a reporter from the newspaper the Echo of Chernobyl , V. Navran, was photographing the machine shop of the Chernobyl plant. "I photographed the top of it, includomg a part of the hole above. I remember everything very well; I did not see any UFO. However, when I developed the film, I clearly saw an object that was hovering above the hole in the roof." The object looked like the one doctor Gospina saw.
It seems that aliens are not worried with the fate of humanity. They are basically worried about the planets environment

some other good stories here

solas

if your bored in work today you might enjoy watching a ufo shoot down a meterorite, or zoom past the WTC in 2000. Some really good videos here
http://www.angelfire.com/wizard/wizardfl/MainVideoPage.html

HomunQlus

The UFO brought the radiation level down. The level was decreased almost four times. This probably prevented a nuclear blast.

As far as I understand physics:
Radiation levels are caused by a nuclear blast. Radiation can not stop a nuclear blast - the blast is the cause, not vice versa.

solas wrote:

or zoom past the WTC in 2000. Some really good videos here

The WTC UFO has been analyzed by a lot of people and found to be genuine.

Briony Noh

To find a single explanation for the UFO phenomenon, even of the flying saucer variety, is almost certainly a bad idea. Alien civilisations exist, let's say for the sake of argument. But need they be near enough to us for a fly-by?

Someone cleverer than me has done the calculations based on the likelihood of life, the likelihood of technological life and the likelihood of it being near enough for even light-speed travel to bring them here within the window of both our civilisations' existence. Very small probability. So, perhaps one or two UFOs came from outer space in the last 5000 years.

Secret weapons will definitely account for another few dozen, maybe considerably more. Immediately prior to the first derrigible flights (somewhere about the late 1800s, I seem to remember reading somewhere), sightings of cigar shaped UFOs were recorded in France and Austria, to name but two. Triangular UFOs are almost certainly American spy-plane prototypes. Saucers themselves ... I'd heard about the German experimentation with anti-gravity and wondered how the Hell they lost the war. If foo-fighters came from that technology, air supremecy would have been theirs.

So are foo-fighters, perhaps, some bizzarre natural phenomenon relating to internal combustion engines at altitude and high speed? Natural phenomena of one type or another, of course, legitimately account for huge number of sightings.

Time tavellers? Why not. If you could travel in time, where would you go, what would you do? And if time travel were regulated, where would you be taken, what would you be allowed to do? When a means of travelling through time is discovered, it will immediately be cloaked in secrecy. Governments will use it sparingly for fear of wrecking their own delicate power structures. Eventually, as with all things military, civilian applications will be found and commercialised. A lot of UFOs and UFO-related events must be time travellers

Or ghosts, or fairies or underworlders or Greek gods or the blessed bean sidhe.

Having said all that, I have a personal suspicion that there is one single scientific fact that, once it is known to us, will explain how UFOs - and ghosts and fairies and all the rest - can and indeed frequently do happen.

If anyone knows what that scientific fact is, why not share it with the rest of us? (I'm speaking directly to the Visitor among us...)

Not crazy, just maddened by the secrecy of it all. Somebody has some of the answers and somebody else has all the rest. And we just plod on concocting our wildest theories to amuse them.

Since no one will have read down this far, I'll just say that I have a very plausible theory of my own and I defy anyone to let me publish it. Go on. Dare you...

Zillah

HomunQlus wrote:

As far as I understand physics:
Radiation levels are caused by a nuclear blast. Radiation can not stop a nuclear blast - the blast is the cause, not vice versa.

Quite correct. The author of the article really doesn't understand the situation. And didn't even hesitate to refer to the "spaceship".

solas

homunQls wrote:

The WTC UFO has been analyzed by a lot of people and found to be genuine.

I've watched this a few times today, because it is so surreal and even though I can't find an obvious fault with it I can't help but feel it must be a fake or that there is a more rational answer for it. It' a little too good to be true.

Zillah wrote:

The author of the article really doesn't understand the situation. And didn't even hesitate to refer to the "spaceship".

I really only used these articles as an example and perhaps to express some of the reasons as to why "they might be here". The first story rings bells straight away with me as the witch trials craze was quite profound in Germany during that time and the religious authorities were really putting the foot down and making their presence felt. Over 25,000 people were burned between the mid 14 century and mid 18th century in Germany alone.

1532: Declaration of the Carolina Code in Germany which imposed the penalties of torture and death for witchcraft. This code was technically adopted by the 300-odd small independent states which comprise the Holy Roman Empire.

I'm not suggesting that such phenomena didn't occur but that perhaps there is more to these stories than first meets the eye. In fact I find it interesting to note that UFO's show up in or around times of trial and when humanity is being greatly challenged.
to note:the wtc ufo was hovering directly in front of the area were one of the planes struck on 9/11.

HomunQlus

solas wrote:

I've watched this a few times today, because it is so surreal and even though I can't find an obvious fault with it I can't help but feel it must be a fake or that there is a more rational answer for it. It' a little too good to be true.

Well, this is from an anlysis:

The video was clearly shot in one take where a 180-degree view of the Manhattan skyline was shot from inside a helicopter.

At various times throughout the video, the helicopter rolls from side to side, the skyline is observed in a manner consistent with a live shot.

As the camera moves or zooms in on an object there is no clear manipulation of the video through a digital effect.

Objects remain consistent with a live panoramic sweep outside and inside the helicopter.

There is no evidence of editing this shot, as to splicing together multiple takes or digital creations.

The sound is synched perfectly to the video.

You can read the whole thing here:
http://www.realufos.com/wtcopinion.shtml

solas

I hold my hands up and admit its a neat video, very thought provoking.

Kernel

Ahhh the infamous world trade centre UFO footage. Unfortunately people, it's a well known fake. It was actually shot for the Sci-Fi channel.

http://www.rense.com/general41/scihoax.htm

solas

just found a link to it, thanks kernel.

Kernel

solas wrote:

just found a link to it, thanks kernel.

No problem solas, good postings in this thread anyway.

Kernel

Briony Noh wrote:

Having said all that, I have a personal suspicion that there is one single scientific fact that, once it is known to us, will explain how UFOs - and ghosts and fairies and all the rest - can and indeed frequently do happen.

If anyone knows what that scientific fact is, why not share it with the rest of us? (I'm speaking directly to the Visitor among us...)

The ultraterrestrial hypothesis can explain a multitude of encounters of high-strangeness. Read these links. I can say no more, my life may be in danger, I already suspect my postings and emails are being monitored, and several disinformation and intelligence agents may have already infiltrated this board.

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/high_strangeness.htm
http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/paradigms.html

solas

I already suspect my postings and emails are being monitored,

well I think with the level of insecurity on the web, most people feel the same way

Ziycon

HomunQlus wrote:

As far as I understand physics:
Radiation levels are caused by a nuclear blast. Radiation can not stop a nuclear blast - the blast is the cause, not vice versa.

Your basing that on science as we humans know and think it works! We could be wrong!

Ziycon

Kernel wrote:

I already suspect my postings and emails are being monitored.

No doubt they would have the board logged in there database, they would have to ass its a location as to where some one may stuble upon something they dont want you to know!

Its like the law enforcement agencies of the world monitor chat rooms for intell. - same applies to this topic!

Zillah

Ziycon wrote:

Your basing that on science as we humans know and think it works! We could be wrong!

No, you see, if the aliens had appeared and said "We stopped the explosion by lowering the radition levels" then I'd say, "Well, that doesn't make sense to me, but you're the interstellar super genius!"

However, the very human author wrote that, and so I say the author is talking crap.

solas

No doubt they would have the board logged in there database, they would have to ass its a location as to where some one may stuble upon something they dont want you to know!

I hope this thread doesn't deteriorate into a frenzy of paranoid ramblings. I can assure you that there are no agencies dedicated to checking out Kernels daily curriculum for information that "he may know". (with the exception of customer related spyware) Thats not to say those feelings of paranoia are unfounded, its true you may be sensing an uneasyness surrounding your security online, but the source may not be as ominous as you think. Maybe its your subconscious recognising and sensing someone utilising your information via simple spyware features.

There have been times that I wished there were agencies out there, but rest assured there isn't!

Kernel

solas wrote:

There have been times that I wished there were agencies out there, but rest assured there isn't!

At the risk of dragging this thread into the realm of conspiracy, I have to say that I would bet my house that there are divisions within the CIA and NSA which monitor internet traffic and forums, as well as spreading disinformation.

EDIT: Also, never underestimate the power of a few well planted blogs...

eg. Said in Baghdad says "life is great and we have so much more freedom now that America has liberated us".. etc.

EDIT Part 2:

Check out:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA%20Hits/Wurlitzer_CIAHits.html
http://www.copi.com/articles/ciapsyops.html
http://www.americanfreepress.net/Attack_on_Constitution/Powerful_Internet_Propaganda_P/powerful_internet_propaganda_p.html
http://www.freedomdomain.com/cia/nsa01.html

I wonder how many sniffers are trawling boards eh?

solas

I have to say that I would bet my house that there are divisions within the CIA and NSA which monitor internet traffic and forums,

I can assure you they have no interest in you unless you are supected of being a national threat or member of a terrorist organisation.

they really arent half as intelligent as you credit them kernel.
now, try and stay on topic.

solas

briony noh wrote:

I'll just say that I have a very plausible theory of my own and I defy anyone to let me publish it. Go on. Dare you...

....taps fingers.

HomunQlus

Kernel wrote:

Ahhh the infamous world trade centre UFO footage. Unfortunately people, it's a well known fake. It was actually shot for the Sci-Fi channel.

http://www.rense.com/general41/scihoax.htm

Ah yes, I see it's fake... The link you posted was VERY informative :rolleyes:

You know that they are supposed to say it's been shot as a commercial for the sci-fi channel so no one would ask anymore questions about this clip?

Here are some thing you should consider and research thoroughly, before saying 'ok guys, it's fake'.

The entire thing is shot in one camera position, and is very much looking a live shot.

The clip does not look like as it is scripted in any way. Why? No one, and no one, would script something like "Is it a blimp?" as sentence for a beginning of a shot out of a helicopter in the beginning.

The quality of the clip shows, that it's a normal amateur video camera, not a professional one.

But there are far more things to prove it's genuine, like:

The pixelation of the UFO is indeed the same as everything else in the clip, best point of relevance would be the WTC.

This is already a very strong point to conclude that this object is not dropped into the clip.

If a CGI (Computer Generated Imaging) object is dropped into a clip or movie, it ALWAYS has a sharper pixelation as everything else - this is because of the rendering technologies we have, a render is automatically high resolution and thus have a sharper pixelation. This is another very strong point.

But, and here's the real important one:

The UFO's movements are absolutely consistent with the camera movements. It seems, as if he's holding the camera in his hand, therefore it logically shakes.

A CGI cannot be dropped into a clip in which the camera is shaken like that. This is to the date not possible with all rendering software we have. You can look this up anywhere in the internet, this is a well known fact. Therefore, if this is a render, then whoever did this, has revolutionized digital imaging as itself and should win an Oscar for special effects.

Conclusion:

Due to the above facts, which are real facts guys, we can safely say that this footage is not scripted or produced in any way. What we see is a device that can fly, which is at the former WTC, showing maneuvers that can not be done by any device or flying machine we have to the day. So, it is a UFO of unknown origin, the footage is real.

Advice:

Please do some research on video and digital imaging, and do it thoroughly, before you say, "it's fake".

=================

Ziycon wrote:

Your basing that on science as we humans know and think it works! We could be wrong!

I believe that our science has conclusively proven, that a nuclear chain reaction causes radiation. This is just the way our world works, aliens cannot change that. A nuclear blast cannot be prevented by bringing down radiation levels, as there are none prior to a nuclear chain reaction (-> blast).

HomunQlus

Kernel wrote:

At the risk of dragging this thread into the realm of conspiracy, I have to say that I would bet my house that there are divisions within the CIA and NSA which monitor internet traffic and forums, as well as spreading disinformation.

Exactly, and the Illuminati are closely working together with high-ranking officers of the CIA, FBI, NSA and of course the secret interstellar fleet of some alien race, and they're transferring all the information they acquired from your computer to their homeworld for further studying....

stevenmu

HomunQlus wrote:

But, and here's the real important one:

The UFO's movements are absolutely consistent with the camera movements. It seems, as if he's holding the camera in his hand, therefore it logically shakes.

A CGI cannot be dropped into a clip in which the camera is shaken like that. This is to the date not possible with all rendering software we have. You can look this up anywhere in the internet, this is a well known fact. Therefore, if this is a render, then whoever did this, has revolutionized digital imaging as itself and should win an Oscar for special effects.

I haven't had a chance to look at this clip yet, and when I've more time I'll get my teeth into the rest of this thread, but I'll just take on this point for now. The technology to do this does exist and has been used. I think it may have been used in the discoverys channels series where they used CGI versions of historical characters (Churchill, Hitler etc). I think it was also used in the Lord of the Rings films.

Basically the software just needs to know the position of the object to be rendered (in this case the UFO) relative to the camera's position (not it's orientation). By tracking the movement of the camera, the software can easily workout where to render the object in the image and at what angles. The camera movement can be tracked by gyros, through special mounts, or by analysing the movement of the picture (altough this is highly innacurate). If the desired movements are known in advance a robotic arm can move the camera as required, this is the most accurate but obviously not always suitable.

I can't say if it was used or not in this case (especially without having seen the clip ) but it is an available technology.

HomunQlus

stevenmu wrote:

I haven't had a chance to look at this clip yet, and when I've more time I'll get my teeth into the rest of this thread, but I'll just take on this point for now. The technology to do this does exist and has been used. I think it may have been used in the discoverys channels series where they used CGI versions of historical characters (Churchill, Hitler etc). I think it was also used in the Lord of the Rings films.

Basically the software just needs to know the position of the object to be rendered (in this case the UFO) relative to the camera's position (not it's orientation). By tracking the movement of the camera, the software can easily workout where to render the object in the image and at what angles. The camera movement can be tracked by gyros, through special mounts, or by analysing the movement of the picture (altough this is highly innacurate). If the desired movements are known in advance a robotic arm can move the camera as required, this is the most accurate but obviously not always suitable.

I can't say if it was used or not in this case (especially without having seen the clip ) but it is an available technology.

That's right, but in those cases, the camera movements of the real one in the movies and the one from CGI are synchronous and have been calculated before.

Technology to achieve the same pixelation of a CGI object and its surroundings, with the same position of the camera shake, is simply impossible.

Kernel

HomunQlus wrote:

Ah yes, I see it's fake... The link you posted was VERY informative :rolleyes:

You know that they are supposed to say it's been shot as a commercial for the sci-fi channel so no one would ask anymore questions about this clip?

Advice:

Please do some research on video and digital imaging, and do it thoroughly, before you say, "it's fake".

Dude, give it up, it's a well known fake in ufology circles. It was made by the SCI FI channel as an advert. The woman in the helicopter is an actress. It was posted on the SCI FI channel website in it's entirety, showing the SCI FI channel logo at the end. It's been debunked... it's not real.

http://www.alcione.org/VIDEONY1/videony2.htm

If a solid object of that size passed so close to a helicopter at that velocity, have you any idea how the air displacement would flip that helicopter?

You would take a tv advert as real footage, but wouldn't believe that there are departments within intelligence agencies which actively monitor and post disinformation on the internet? That's a bit strange.

HomunQlus

Kernel wrote:

Dude, give it up, it's a well known fake in ufology circles. It was made by the SCI FI channel as an advert. The woman in the helicopter is an actress. It was posted on the SCI FI channel website in it's entirety, showing the SCI FI channel logo at the end. It's been debunked... it's not real.

http://www.alcione.org/VIDEONY1/videony2.htm

If a solid object of that size passed so close to a helicopter at that velocity, have you any idea how the air displacement would flip that helicopter?

You would take a tv advert as real footage, but wouldn't believe that there are departments within intelligence agencies which actively monitor and post disinformation on the internet? That's a bit strange.

Dude, I don't give it up. It's a real footage, please look up the facts on the Internet regarding Digital Imaging, and all the websites that discuss this footage.

Obviously, you don't wanna do that, so I don't wanna discuss this any further with you.

And with this, the topic is closed for me.

Kernel

HomunQlus wrote:

Dude, I don't give it up. It's a real footage, please look up the facts on the Internet regarding Digital Imaging, and all the websites that discuss this footage.

Obviously, you don't wanna do that, so I don't wanna discuss this any further with you.

And with this, the topic is closed for me.

Listen man, if someone tells me Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter is real, I don't feel I need to research digital imagery and computer generated imaging and special effects to prove that they aren't real.

You've been duped, and I'm amazed that there are still websites out there debating this. It was debunked in 2003 ffs! And believe me, I followed it with great interest when it first came out.

2 or 3 years ago.

solas

kernel wrote:

that there are departments within intelligence agencies which actively monitor and post disinformation on the internet?

how many identities do you post under exactly?

I'm in b!tch slapping humour, and tempted to move this thread to the conspiracy theories forum.

Kernel

solas wrote:

how many identities do you post under exactly?

I'm in b!tch slapping humour, and tempted to move this thread to the conspiracy theories forum.

Look solas babes, I'm taking big risks here, I almost got it at the M50 tollbridge on my way back from work. I'll take it as a warning, if they wanted me dead I would be by now, but I may have to go underground for a while.

EDIT: this is my only identity on boards, btw, why do you think I have others? I have other alias' in the real world though.