Sinn fein- the new nazi party?

bus77

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Thus by your own admission you're disinterested in what a sizable proportion of people in Northern Ireland think, based upon their ancestry.

No, more based on my own.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by bus77
No, more based on my own.

Sorry, I'd forgotten you were Herrenvolk.

bus77

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Sorry, I'd forgotten you were Herrenvolk.

Why did we fight for Independance because we believed we where the master race?

The Corinthian

Originally posted by bus77
Why did we fight for Independance because we believed we where the master race?

Apparently you do.

You’ve admitted to judging the rights and opinions of people based upon their ancestry and ethnic background (not their actions) to be inferior or at the very least irrelevant.

You also openly consider yourself to be justified in this opinion based upon your ancestry and ethnic background (not personal knowledge or experience).

So yes, you consider yourself superior to these planter stock untermenchen. In short, you’re a racist.

earwicker

Originally posted by Cork
I would tell all partys that the GFA needs full implementation.

And what would you do if they said "NO!" over and over again? Walk away?

All partys have to work together. SF has to recognise that the IRA needs disbandment + the DUP has to work with SF.

Let's assume that your platitude doesn't work. Where do you go after your empty rhetoric fails? How will you get them to work together? And remember, we're looking for a real answer that doesn't parrot the old chestnut that they must work together, thereby taking us into infinite regress.

So, how would you do it?

bus77

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Apparently you do.

You’ve admitted to judging the rights and opinions of people based upon their ancestry and ethnic background (not their actions) to be inferior or at the very least irrelevant.

Based on their choice of Government mostly.

Originally posted by The Corinthian
You also openly consider yourself to be justified in this opinion based upon your ancestry and ethnic background (not personal knowledge or experience).

Yes.

Originally posted by The Corinthian
So yes, you consider yourself superior to these planter stock untermenchen. In short, you’re a racist.

Nationalist:D

The Corinthian

Originally posted by bus77
Nationalist:D

No, a racist using patriotism to as a cover to justify his prejudice.

bus77

Originally posted by The Corinthian
No, a racist using patriotism to as a cover to justify his prejudice.

No, a nationalist, useing the history of my people on this Island and the history of a forign goverment/culture to justify my right.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by bus77
No, a nationalist, useing the history of my people on this Island and the history of a forign goverment/culture to justify my right.

I've heard the KKK use similar arguments...

bus77

Originally posted by The Corinthian
I've heard the KKK use similar arguments...

The KKK wernt ****ed up the ass for 800 years by the same government.
Jesus you have no concept of what it is do you?
Its not race/ancestery of the people up there thats the Issue, It's the foreign government/culture they bring with them.

David-[RLD]-

The KKK aren't the original inhabitants of their country, so their "similar arguments" are invalid.

Black people obviously never did anything to them, so they have no reason to hate other races.

"Its not race/ancestery of the people up there thats the Issue, It's the foreign government/culture they bring with them."

True.

Cork

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-
The KKK aren't the original inhabitants of their country,

Unionists are as Irish as you or me.

Their consent will be required to change the status of NI.

The IRAs continued existance won't bully them into it.

The SDLP saw this 40 years ago. It is pity some others in NI had never such vision.

David-[RLD]-

Er.. that's... nice.....



What did that have to do with anything? I know Unionists are Irish. I never said they weren't. I just said the KKK aren't the original inhabitants of their country. However, we are.

Cork

Sorry about that. Mis-read your comment.

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-

What did that have to do with anything? I know Unionists are Irish. I never said they weren't. I just said the KKK aren't the original inhabitants of their country. However, we are.

Not sure if thats correct either, theres lots of catholics here that if their roots were traced back far enough they would be anglo saxon.
Remember those guys who became more Irish than the Irish themselves but didn't originate on this island.
If you look up place names and geneology/surnames etc and their prevalence you will see this.

David-[RLD]-

Originally posted by Cork
Sorry about that. Mis-read your comment.

No problem.

earwicker

Originally posted by Cork
Unionists are as Irish as you or me.

As a matter of interest, do you think they see themselves the way you have characterized them? What was the party slogan the UUP unveiled before the 2003 Assembly elections? If they are moderate Unionists, how do you reckon the DUP think of themselves? Do you know how far support for the GFA has slipped in the Unionist community?

David-[RLD]-

They believe they are British, but Cork is right, they are Irish.

The only Unionists who I have trouble considering Irish are members of the DUP, especially Paisley.

earwicker

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-
They believe they are British, but Cork is right, they are Irish.

It is their beliefs that won't be going anywhere soon, and that is something Cork consistently overlooks. Maybe he honestly believes that if he doesn't think about it, it will simply vanish or something.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by bus77
The KKK wernt ****ed up the ass for 800 years by the same government.

So we should damn an entire ethnic group based upon the actions not of themselves, but of their ancestors? Not unlike the old anti-Semitic argument of the Jews deserving persecution because they “crucified our Lord”.

Its not race/ancestery of the people up there thats the Issue, It's the foreign government/culture they bring with them.

It’s completely about race and ancestry and that they simply disagree with you. If it wasn’t about their race and ancestry, why do you bring up the actions of their ancestors continually?

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-
The KKK aren't the original inhabitants of their country, so their "similar arguments" are invalid.

Shall we deport them then? And everyone of Viking or Norman ancestry too? Let’s not forget the Celts - they weren’t the inhabitants of this country either.

Paint your nationalism as you wish, but when you bring your race or that of another in as a justification for anything, then there’s only one word for it.

David-[RLD]-

Who said I wanted to deport the KKK from America. Although that's not a bad idea.

The KKK aren't a race, they're a group of twisted racist fanatics.

Cork

People like John Hume had vision. His views were not coloured by a small minded tribal view.

Tribal Politics went out with the dark ages.

Even SF/IRA now accept that the consent of the majority of those living in NI is required for constitutional charge.

Alas 30 years too late - but even SF now accepts partition and take their seats on the assembly.

The success of our ecomomy has brought new confidence to the Irish.

We no longer carry around massive chips on our sholders cribbing about 800 years of misery.

They are certain people who are backward looking - but as a whole people have moved on.

But, the hallmark of 30 years of violence still exists in NI. Pointless violence that achieved nothing.

This violence only further devided a devided society.

Irish are Irish. They are no degrees of Irishness.

If you don't speak Irish or don't dance an Irish jig makes you no less Irish.

We are all citizens of the EU any way. The EU has even healed devision between the French and Germans.

earwicker

So, Cork, do you know what the UUP party slogan is?

Cork

Originally posted by earwicker
So, Cork, do you know what the UUP party slogan is?

"Simply British"

The majority of those living in NI consider themselves British.

30 years of violence carried out by the IRA did nothing to convince them to consider alternatives.

earwicker

Originally posted by Cork
"Simply British"

The majority of those living in NI consider themselves British.

30 years of violence carried out by the IRA did nothing to convince them to consider alternatives.

If they consider themselves to be British then how do you imagine saying things like "they are Irish" going to be received by that community?

BTW Unionist intractability was one of the reasons that the Provos came into existence after the Official IRA called its campaign off.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-
Who said I wanted to deport the KKK from America. Although that's not a bad idea.

You misunderstood or misinterpreted what I meant. If you consider that a groups origins is relevant, then what would you do with the Unionist community in Northern Ireland, seeing as they are descended from ancestors who settled only a few centuries ago? Deport them?

And if you’re are using the ancestry of individuals as a basis for their rights, as has been repeatedly pointed out, then where does that leave the 99% of Irish who are also not originally from Ireland if you go back a millennium or two?

The KKK aren't a race, they're a group of twisted racist fanatics.

Ironically, like you, they’d consider themselves nationalists or patriots. How are they wrong when they use race and origin a criteria and you’re right?

Cork

Originally posted by earwicker
If they consider themselves to be British then how do you imagine saying things like "they are Irish" going to be received by that community?

BTW Unionist intractability was one of the reasons that the Provos came into existence after the Official IRA called its campaign off.

Both communities in NI have to live together.

30 years of violence only deepened devision.

The armalite and the ballot box policy was a flop.

It cost the lives of many in NI.

Tit for Tat violence was one of the reasons that the Provos bombed and killed for 30 years.

cdebru

You’re being rather generous to yourself with definitions, but let’s let it slide. How about Franco Tudjman, a self-confessed “follower of Franco” in Croatia?

ok croatia obviously had ambitions beyond it s own borders given it invasion of bosnia
and it is no suprise to anyone with any knowledge of the balkans to learn that tudjman was a fascist especially in light of the fact that croats collaberated on a widescale with the nazi in ww2
this piece of history was a huge factor in the wars that followed the break up of yugoslavia

my contention is that there is a difference between an oppressive right wing regime and facism
that facism is racism its one of its main tenets
yes there is more to facism than racism undoubtly
i dont dispute that
but you can not be a facist or in particular a nazi and not be a racist
they go hand in hand
now the post is are sinn fein the new nazi party
due to a lack of rascist ideology they are not
perhaps the post should have been
are sinn fein the new stalinists
then one removes the race issue
also nazi and facists are right wing
sinn fein would consider it self
to be a left wing socialist party
the group i believe they are considering joining in the eu parliament
is made up of former east european regimes and the french and italian communists

so clearly the label stalinist rather than nazi might be more suitable

Cork

Originally posted by cdebru

are sinn fein the new stalinists

It will be interesting to see if any group will accept SF in the EU parliament as long as they have links to the IRA.

cdebru

no problem the group i mention will accept them
i believe
interesting is that it is fianna fail that is in the facist grouping in the eu parliament
just tought i would throw that in