Sinn fein- the new nazi party?

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
So nationalists in northern Ireland either; do not have a culture or have an unwelcomed one?

I never said unionists were any better in this regard.

When this happens, if unionism have a right to most orange-order parades (in acceptable areas), right to have union-jack displayed, right to choose "god save the queen", maybe even government funding for traditional unionist practices such as lambeg drumming etc etc then what would unionists have to fear from joining a united Ireland?

Perhaps in time, but certainly not if some of the views that have been expressed towards the ‘descendants of foreign settlers’ in this thread remain.

Mighty_Mouse

then what do nationalists have to fear from staying in the UK? What's sauce for the goose...

Because fundamentally ulster is part of Ireland and the north is and always will be only a stepping stone to Irish independance.

Perhaps in time, but certainly not if some of the views that have been expressed towards the ‘descendants of foreign settlers’ in this thread remain.

War entrenches views and opinions but people have short memories and therefore I really think were gonna see massive changes in the next 20 years.

Tusky

C - anything else is a disgrace

Meh

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Because fundamentally ulster is part of Ireland and the north is and always will be only a stepping stone to Irish independance.

The unionists could just as validly argue that fundamentally Ireland is part of the UK and the republic is only a temporary stage on the road to a full union of the British Isles. Why should we believe you over them?

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Because fundamentally ulster is part of Ireland and the north is and always will be only a stepping stone to Irish independance.

First you you give us the following entrenched view...

War entrenches views and opinions but people have short memories and therefore I really think were gonna see massive changes in the next 20 years.

...and follow it up with this. Pot. Kettle. Black?

Mighty_Mouse

The unionists could just as validly argue that fundamentally Ireland is part of the UK and the republic is only a temporary stage on the road to a full union of the British Isles. Why should we believe you over them?

Well your argument that the republic of ireland is a temporary state "on the way towards" a complete united kingdom seems a little radical to be honest. It kinda flys in the face of everything we know about the Irish english conflict (especially in the last 100 years).

So the english actually signed over the free-state as a step towards taking it back........hhhhmmmmm....interesting!:dunno:

DublinWriter

The older I get, the less reason I can see for NI being part of the ROI.

Call me a heretic, but bascially what's so great about having a 32 county state?

Will it make you sleep easier in your bed at night?

The whole 'Brits Out' philosophy makes me laugh. The Brits would pay BIG money to get out of NI, one of the least productive and most resource hungry regions of the UK.

The reason NI isn't part of the ROI is because there's roughly 600,000 people up there with other ideas about what country they want to belong to.

The other reason is because the Brits know that if they pulled out that it would make Kosovo look like a tea-party.

I also love the way most Nationalists naively view Unionists as basically misguided Irish people.

As long as basic human rights aren't being abused, I don't see a problem what state a person belongs to.

The whole arguement about it preserving Irish culture is a complete non-starter too, considering that only 5% of us actually speak our native language, no-body has actually read Ulysses, most of us work for foreign multi-nationals and we all watch Sky Sports.

earwicker

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Ironically, European unification may be the only even vaguely peaceful solution to the whole damned mess.

I agree with this.

On a related note, and this is really more of a general observation on some of the response on the thread rather than picking on any one poster: it's interesting that a certain proportion of the response to the North tends toward the negative and jaded. For every "nationalists are..." type statement there is a counter "unionists are..." type of statement. I worry that this tends to produce a type of quietism, because any statement is seemingly opposed (a priori you could almost say) by its polar opposite accusing the original of racism. And so it goes. It all speaks of defeatism and is not surprising. And I'm not blaming anyone for feeling this way.

But, surely there is still a way to express an opinion regarding what one believes to be the best course of action, and then trying to win people over/ persuade them (campaign--Shock!--in other words) that an idea or particular course of action is of benefit without it being swallowed in general negative and debilitating responses. For example, I can have a conviction regarding any issue and I can express it without being drowned in an argument that simply tars me as a racist or as someone who advocates ethnic cleansing.

Surely if I believe that I can offer something to the protestant population (not all are unionist, btw) that they will embrace (a say in a secularized, multicultural, modern, stable, properous republic) is it inherently wrong of me to do so because someone can point out to me that a hard-line minority will refuse? And we can look at it the opposite way as well (being part of the UK, etc). If the same criteria were applied to any other issue, we'd quickly see the absurdity. The point being that so long as we treat even the voicing of these issues to the negativity of paralyzing "X will refuse" (X may well refuse, but debate may change their minds) type statements, how can any movement/ change at all be possible?

As I say this negativity fascinates me. Sometimes I see it as a way of silencing everyone who tries to express a view. I'm not sure what's to be gained from this except maintaining a sort of "decorum" where controversial things aren't discussed. Other times I see it as a sort of dangerous defeatism that lets the extremes set the agenda. Still other times I see it as being the product of a well-meaning idealistic wish for peace that tends to offer solutions that have little to do with current political realities, something that has the same effect as defeatism. Debate in such a situation is made very difficult.

Anyway those are my random thoughts on some general trends I see in the thread.

So, not to be negative I'll say that the good thing about this thread is that it still proves debate is possible, even if some of it can be a little knee-jerky and negative.

<edit for typos>

DublinWriter

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Ironically, European unification may be the only even vaguely peaceful solution to the whole damned mess.

Yes, and we all know just how much the UK wants to embrace Europe.

Actually, the only solution to this is to invent a time machine, go back in time, and somehow prevent the plantation of Ulster.

All else is conjecture and word-play.

earwicker

Originally posted by DublinWriter
Actually, the only solution to this is to invent a time machine, go back in time, and somehow prevent the plantation of Ulster.

All else is conjecture and word-play.

You're funny. I like you.

monument

Why do you want to change the current alienation of one section of the community to be just an alienation of another section of the community?

Do you want to punish them because your community have been alienation, and unfairly treated for so long?

Palz

National Socialism did not work in Germany, We don't want it here.

roadsmart

Should have said that 10 years ago, at the time this thread was posted.

For Forks Sake

Holy zombie thread batman

Shaque attack

ha so it was ten years ago I last gave a **** about nonsense like this!

que pasa

The public has nothing to fear from Sinn Fein. They're the only Irish party with an All-Ireland strategy.

What happens if Scotland exists the Union and the north descends into chaos? It will make sense to have a party with an All-Ireland strategy to present the people if it does happen.

The only thing the public should be afraid of is the southern parties failure to prepare any type of unification manifesto.

The last persons you want in charge are the likes of Enda Kenny and Eamonn Gilmore when the inevitable occurs.

sillyoulfool

^^^^
That's the very reason we should fear SF, the last thing this state needs is unification with Northern Ireland.
God forbid we ever see the day.

Banjoxed

SF running Ireland, the Fianna Fáil like SNP running Scotland and UKIP succeeding in hijacking the Tories and running the show in England?

Canada is a nice place.

Balmed Out

Silly OP. On a local level I think Sinn Fein are great but on a national level with their please all policies ignoring the maths their just the new fianna fail. Think a lot of the same people voting for them too

Sound of Silence

A fine example of Godwin's law being brought out of a ten year slumber.

What a shite thread to resurrect.

Iwasfrozen

que pasa wrote: »

The public has nothing to fear from Sinn Fein. They're the only Irish party with an All-Ireland strategy.

What happens if Scotland exists the Union and the north descends into chaos? It will make sense to have a party with an All-Ireland strategy to present the people if it does happen.

The only thing the public should be afraid of is the southern parties failure to prepare any type of unification manifesto.

The last persons you want in charge are the likes of Enda Kenny and Eamonn Gilmore when the inevitable occurs.

We have two things to fear from SF, forcing us into a union with NI and Socialism.

Banjo String

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

We have two things to fear from SF, forcing us into a union with NI and Socialism.

Says the unionist.

Iwasfrozen

Banjo String wrote: »

Says the unionist.

Did a unionist say it too?

flutered

dark_knight_ire wrote: »

Just interested to find out what people here think. Most of the people here would be level headed.

Its apparent to me that sinn fein done very well in this election because they fought a hard campain put the work in, i mean its easy to listen and agree about everything the gov is doing wrong. But think about this sinn feins members come from the ranks of the IRA not all of them but they fund each other. They want their own police force and army. Remember 96 and the "raid" in adare. They shot Gardai killing one. Funny that it was called a raid when no attempt was make on the post office, they just rammed the garda car and jumped out opening fire. Sinn fein said it was nothing to do with republicans and then had to admit it later under huge evidence.

I would consider myself a republican but these guys are a different breed most of the people in the election are half criminals if not full criminals. They have no idea how to run a country. The green book the organiation ran on stated that the gov of ireland was an illegal gov, and they had the moral right to a "war" they want a socialist state. In which case this country would desent into the depths of hell if they got into power. I could never see a garda or a member of the defence forces saluting any member of sinn fein.

Remember this SF will not say sorry for any action taken like the murder of Gda McCabe they try to free these murders against the will of the irish people. They run protection rackets and extort money from hard working people. Of course they are to smart to get linked to this so they send their thugs in

I could list out so many thinks about them but i'd be here all day. I would be interested to hear comment for or against what i said. I don't mind a critic because unlike some if you disagree with me i would sent out a punishment mob.

a new poster, is there an election coming up, aww, forgive me, from now until the election is well over the scaremonger will be out in droves, it seems as if the status quo ae very worried.

flutered

Agent Orange wrote: »

Mary Lou was easily the most attractive looking of the EU candidates. No wonder she won.

The fact her party is made up of and affiliated with child-murdering psychopaths is a tad worrying however.

If you want to vote for a republican party then vote for a proper republican party - even Fianna Fail. At least they don't kill people.

has not fg got a guy at the top tabel of british intelligence, that to e is a hell of a lot moe to worry about.

hare05

The Corinthian wrote: »

Nationalist Socialist.

And last time I looked those were Sinn Fein's two core idiological principles.

If you'd actually read up on the Nazis you'd realise that 'Nationalist' only came into it to get the hardline racist vote and 'Socialist' didn't come into it at all other than the name. They were the fascist corporatist party, which, in any country it appears, calls itself whatever is popular in the current moment.

Sinn Fein does match up with early Nazi as far as ideology goes, but that ideology is hardly 'Socialist' beyond the populism of the term and neither are they truly 'nationalist'. They don't believe in the good of the nation, they believe in a mystical nation they intend to recreate us into when they get power.