Drug experiences

MoosemaN

Wolfie,

Do you have a response on informing instead of ignoring?

Can you answer why there are more heavy drug users in Sweden compared to Holland per capita?

Kone

Originally posted by Wolfie


Driving while stoned or under illegal substances is highly irresponsible - as bad as drink driving. You could kill someone on the road, because you're too stoned to react properly - so why you bring that up, or throw it ad hoc into your argument, I dont understand. Lay off the cones man!

It's called a joke my dear friend! Did you miss the whole Dominos bit? Let a little humour into your life!

:rolleyes:

Wolfie

Originally posted by MoosemaN
Wolfie,

Do you have a response on informing instead of ignoring?

Can you answer why there are more heavy drug users in Sweden compared to Holland per capita?

Dont know, and couldnt speculate on that. In fairness, there are a lot of variables to be considered, apart from the fact that so-called soft drugs are legal and that there is a liberal attitude to drugs and drug information. Why is there more hard drug use in Dublin than there is in Clare? There's more drug information rolled out in schools etc. in this county. You also have to consider cultural, religious and socio-economic factors. No point in over-simplifying as you have - presumably to further your pro-drugs argument.

Kone

Originally posted by Wolfie
No point in over-simplifying as you have - presumably to further your pro-drugs argument.

Pro-drugs? Hmm, I wonder consider MoosemaN's argument Pro-choice really...

Catsmokinpot

Originally posted by Wolfie
I admit, that I cannot say that you are addicted, without knowing you, but I only have what you type here to go on. And when you said that you dont plan on being on drugs forever, that is exactly what the addicted person says. Its classic. I wont smoke/drink forever, I'll give it up someday... etc. If you are not addicted, then could you go for a year without doing it? If you could, then why dont you? You may say to yourself that you could, but then your addicted brain kicks in and fools you, and says "I can give up anytime, but I wont give up because why should i, its not harming anyone, and I enjoy it.. why stop doing something I enjoy. Its like giving up eating my favourite food".. and so on. Addicted brain controls your thoughts.

now im going to say i dont want to give up and your going to say ooh i told you so, and its going to go round in circles you cant just say something to someone like that its a load of bull**** i have the money in my pocket to go out and get some pills so if im addicted why dont i go out and get em? cause i dont feel like it! why? because im not addicted! what now? end of story! now your going to say oh hes in denial!! well im not! im not getting uppity cause i have something to hide! im just pissed cause you wont admit that your wrong.. this conversation could go on forever but its not cause im going to end it.

none of us are Pro-drugs

as MooseMan put it we're Pro-choice

muffen

Alright, I just came across this thread...

Wolfie:

Do you think if heroin or crack were made legal, and the same number of people took them as take alcohol, that things would be better?

I don't think anyone here is refering to crack or heroin when talking about legalizing drugs, and I do asume that you have realized this.. hence.. that statement serves no purpose...

Why is there more hard drug use in Dublin than there is in Clare?

Here's a few reasons I can think of:

1, More people!
2, More people with money!
3. More money!
4, As there are more people, access becomes easier.
5, It's the capital and it has many shippingports, so presumably a lot of drugs get into Ireland via Dublin.

There's more drug information rolled out in schools etc. in this county.

... so people take drugs after being informed about the effects... hmm.. maybe you should think about that one for a while...

You also have to consider cultural, religious and socio-economic factors. No point in over-simplifying as you have

I don't think he oversimplified it. The undisputed facts are:

1, Sweden has one of Europes toughest druglaws.
2, NL has Europes least restrictive druglaws.
3, More people, in numbers, die in Sweden due to drugs than the Netherlans, and the Netherlands has almost twice the population.
4, Both countries has good information about drugs (in schools and centers).

Now, this leads me to believe the following:

1, People will try certain drugs even after knowing the negative effects.
2, Some people will go further and take heavy drugs (for example heroing, crack.. and to some extent cocain).

Now, in NL, if you want to try weed, you buy it in a shop and you smoke it. If you wanna buy heavier things, well, you have to find a dealer.

In Sweden (or Ireland), if you want to smoke weed, you have to find a dealer, who presumably sells more things than just weed. Hence, you have gotten an accesspoint to heavier drugs, without even trying. Therefore, having soft drugs illegal can contribute to the usage of heavy drugs.

presumably to further your pro-drugs argument.

He's not pro-drug (well, he might be, but that doesn't seem to be the point), he just believes that people should be able to do what they want with themselves, as long as they don't hurt anyone else and are able to function as normal productive people in society.

Don't you think the world would be better if people cared less about the things other people do, and more about their own happiness?

Anyways, I understand that you may not like drugs, but there is a difference between them, and from what I understand, this discussion (right now) is about soft drugs (class C drugs in England if you want to know what's included).
I would agree with a lot of things you said if we were discussing heavier stuff, but weed... nah.. if people enjoy smoking it then so be it... it doesn't hurt you.. so why fight it?

By the way, before you asume that I want to legalize heroin, I figured I'd give you my opinions.

I think that minor possesion of weed should be ignored (<10grams).

Heroin, Crack and anything else than disables your ability and makes you unable to function as a productive person in society should be kept illegal!

Catsmokinpot

heroin, other opiates and crack, i dont think anyone wants them legalised they are the other end of the hard drugs spectrum and the ones that should definitely remain illegal, they are highly addictive and ruin people almost instantly im sure that the vast majority of people who have tried heroin or crack have been ruined by it

kimmygirl

.... http://www.apconcentrate.com

Catsmokinpot

Originally posted by kimmygirl
.... http://www.apconcentrate.com

umm.. no.... do you think it should?

vibe666

i'm late in the door again, but here's my 2c anyway.

there's a big difference between coke, speed and E's and the likes of crack and scag. plenty of people take the former on a regular/semi regular basis and get on with their normal day to day living with little side effects. same goes for pot in its various guises. you can take a few pills, do a few lines or smoke a few joints and then just stop when you want without it being much of a big deal, and don't try and tell me different cos I've done it.

i used to live in tenerife (never get tired of telling people that:D) for 3 and a half years and was spending 250e a week most of the time on a combination of booze (mostly vodka redbull) coke and or pills and hash and i was out on the raz 3 or 4 times a week at least 2 all nighters when i'd be home after 10am the next morning and i stopped dead when i left and it didn't bother me one bit.

i do know however that had it been crack or heroin i'd be dead in a ditch by now, which is why i didn't touch it. don't even know for sure if there was crack out there or not, but there was definately herion cos some girl i was vaguely aquinted with did end up in a ditch while i was there of an overdose.

on the other side of the coin, it took me a grand total of about 18 months before my brain was back to normal after stopping, but i'm almost certain it was mostly the pills that did that anyway, although the booze probably had something to do with it too.

now my brain power is back to normal and i can do my job (I'm an IT engineer, so having my thinking cap on is an every day occurance for me) no problems, but when i was first here it took quite a while before i could think straight again.

but that's just me. i think people should do whatever the fvck they want as long as it's themselves they're doing it to (i.e. don't be getting off your tits before driving somewhere).

and double ditto for the drinking and smoking cigarettes thing. will do you more harm than smoking pot ever will.

neXus9

Consensual crime is all well and good, only it's the tax payers money that has to be paid out for rehab for people that are addicted to coke, e, etc.

Anyway, can you really remember when your'e coked or e'd up afterwards/now? You seem to have gotten yourself back together, but who knows what effects it has yet to show.

Not starting an arguement, just stating my opinion.:)

Senor_Fudge

the thread was more intended for people to share to experiences on drug use and both the intoxicating and sometimes harmful effects

Its not so much intended for drug debate whether its right or wrong etc
its more of an educational thread where people can find out from their peers what actually can happen when ya take drugs/abuse substances ie the guy talking to the oven ^_^

neXus9

ok, fair enough. One guy told me that he was high on gas, and thought he was imbedded with a bomb by the Japanese Government and sent to blow up to the bus that he was on...

...and of course there was the guy in greystone who plucked his eye out, because of the rats in his head. It was weird, because I saw him in Greystones, and then about ten minutes later I walked into a nearby cafe and the dido song was on with the lyrics: "I will go down with this ship, I will gouge my eyes out and surrender". I thought to myself, imagine if the guy heard that, and totally flipped out!

If anyone's interested in drug experiences, try reading 'fear and loathing in Las Vegas'. Excellent book. What is naked lunch like as a book, saw the film and despised it (is it much different?)?

vibe666

Originally posted by neXus9
Consensual crime is all well and good, only it's the tax payers money that has to be paid out for rehab for people that are addicted to coke, e, etc.

Anyway, can you really remember when your'e coked or e'd up afterwards/now? You seem to have gotten yourself back together, but who knows what effects it has yet to show.

just goes to show how little you know about the subject. the amount of coke you'd have to take to get addicted is beyond the budget of anyone outside of hollywood, and E's aren't addictive at all, aside from some possible psychological effects but again, i've never heard of anyone going into rehab for pills at all, and i doubt anyone else has. there's probably more people in rehab for sex addiction than exctasy.

drugs are great in moderation, and it doesn't take much sense to make sure you keep it that way, and due to budgetry constraints i doubt many people could afford it any other way.

as for the memory loss thing, the only memory loss i ever had in all my years of excess was due solely to alcohol, not pills or coke. if anything you remember more because they make you a lot more aware of your surroundings.

finishing on a high note, has anyone tried making love (or having sex for you single people) after a pill each? hmmmmm. very good memories.

neXus9

just goes to show how little you know about the subject. the amount of coke you'd have to take to get addicted is beyond the budget of anyone outside of hollywood, and E's aren't addictive at all, aside from some possible psychological effects but again, i've never heard of anyone going into rehab for pills at all, and i doubt anyone else has. there's probably more people in rehab for sex addiction than exctasy.

Sorry kid, but Iv'e talked to people that were addicted to coke, and have known someone that had to go to counseling to sort his brain out from the amount of e that he had consumed.

I know a few people that have eventually confessed to being addicted to hash(!), although it took them awhile to admit it. They are still taking huge amounts of it, and have successfully thrown their ambitions away (they don't even go out on the weekend anymore, aslong as they have thier hash).

Your'e childish into thinking that just because your not addicted to coke and E, that it's gonna be pretty hard for everyone else to get addicted. Anything that's good has the potential to be addictive.

exctasy

Is that a new drug??? Iv'e only heard of ectasy!!!:rolleyes:

shabbyroad

A bloke dropped dead in front of me after he did coke.
It wasn't a particularly nice way to go - he was hallucinating and terrified.
I don't believe he was a 'habitual' user. He was only married 3 weeks and died in the car park behind the liquor store his parents ran.

I don't think I'll ever forget how blue he looked as he was put onto the stretcher and taken away.

Didn't stop me trying it myself. Probably not one of my more clever decisions. Wouldn't do it now - too much to lose. Was an indestructable youth at the time.

Senor_Fudge

A bloke dropped dead in front of me after he did coke.

what a waste of a life

Wolfie

Originally posted by Catsmokinpot
now im going to say i dont want to give up and your going to say ooh i told you so, and its going to go round in circles you cant just say something to someone like that its a load of bull**** i have the money in my pocket to go out and get some pills so if im addicted why dont i go out and get em? cause i dont feel like it! why? because im not addicted! what now? end of story! now your going to say oh hes in denial!! well im not! im not getting uppity cause i have something to hide! im just pissed cause you wont admit that your wrong.. this conversation could go on forever but its not cause im going to end it.

none of us are Pro-drugs

as MooseMan put it we're Pro-choice

Hide from the reality of your own addiction. As I predicted, you brain is making up the excuses so that it continues to receive its endorphin rewards. Its what we've always been programmed to do.

Senor_Fudge

if its what we've always been programmed to do by your rational then why are u claiming its unnatural?

king_of_inismac

Ding dong!!!

well said fudge ;P

<off topic> fudge, your pm box is full, have you got your new phone yet, pm me man </off topic>

Wolfie

Originally posted by muffen
Alright, I just came across this thread...

Wolfie:


I don't think anyone here is refering to crack or heroin when talking about legalizing drugs, and I do asume that you have realized this.. hence.. that statement serves no purpose...

As I mentioned in my post, the direction that was being taken by the thread was that people were defending only so called soft drugs. I was speaking of all drugs. I reiterated that in the post you quite, however, you still refer back to the fact that the thread isnt discussing hard drugs. Your statement, therefore, serves no purpose, and you force me to waste more time in re-stating what I already stated: I refer to all drugs, I dont have as much of a problem with so-called softer drugs, but I believe that they are gateway drugs which lead people to try other drugs, concordantly, ending up on heroin or crack (in some cases).

Originally posted by muffen
Here's a few reasons I can think of:

1, More people!
2, More people with money!
3. More money!
4, As there are more people, access becomes easier.
5, It's the capital and it has many shippingports, so presumably a lot of drugs get into Ireland via Dublin.

Congratulations muffen, you have found the answer to the drugs question! Scientists have carried out psychological, social and biological studies for many years, but you have solved it. God, I'd hate to live in Tokyo, that place must be awash with drugs, since there are so many people and so much money! I think you'll find that the larger proportion of drug addicts are from the lower socio-economic classes, and when I compare Dublin to Clare, or any place, I'm speaking proportionally.

Originally posted by muffen
... so people take drugs after being informed about the effects... hmm.. maybe you should think about that one for a while...

Wow, I dont know where you got that from. I certainly didnt imply anything remotely along those lines in my post. If you are referring to my statements that people glorifying drugs and telling people how to take drugs increases the likelihood that someone will try them, then yes, I stand by that. And dont see why I should look more deeply into that belief? People being informed of the effects of drugs (indluding the bad effects), who were in a controlled environment, would be much less likely to try them. There are many other factors though.

Originally posted by muffen
I don't think he oversimplified it. The undisputed facts are:

1, Sweden has one of Europes toughest druglaws.
2, NL has Europes least restrictive druglaws.
3, More people, in numbers, die in Sweden due to drugs than the Netherlans, and the Netherlands has almost twice the population.
4, Both countries has good information about drugs (in schools and centers).

Of course he has oversimplified it. Russia has more alcoholics per capita than Italy.. in both countries alcohol is legal. So what? There are many other factors to be considered other than how open the country is about drugs. There are no other countries which have such an open attitude to drugs as Holland, so comparisons are pointless, as 1 case doesnt prove anything. In science, experiments need to be repeatable. So bring in the same attitude in Ireland as Holland, and we'll see what happens. An explosion of drug use I think.

Originally posted by muffen
Now, this leads me to believe the following:

1, People will try certain drugs even after knowing the negative effects.
2, Some people will go further and take heavy drugs (for example heroing, crack.. and to some extent cocain).

Yes, of course. But dont rule out that fact that so-called softer drugs are very often stepping stones on the merry path of throwing away your life.

Originally posted by muffen
Now, in NL, if you want to try weed, you buy it in a shop and you smoke it. If you wanna buy heavier things, well, you have to find a dealer.

In Sweden (or Ireland), if you want to smoke weed, you have to find a dealer, who presumably sells more things than just weed. Hence, you have gotten an accesspoint to heavier drugs, without even trying. Therefore, having soft drugs illegal can contribute to the usage of heavy drugs.

Yes, I agree with you on that. That is a fair point. But I would put this to you: Is it solely the fact that the dealer sells other drugs that encourages the user to try harder drugs? Or is it the search for 'a better buzz man.. scwhaaaa".

Originally posted by muffen
He's not pro-drug (well, he might be, but that doesn't seem to be the point), he just believes that people should be able to do what they want with themselves, as long as they don't hurt anyone else and are able to function as normal productive people in society.

Of course he is pro-drug. He takes drugs, he believes that there is no harm in taking drugs responsibly. Bottom line: He is not against drug use in society. He defends it on this forum. He is pro-drug. People can hide behind this pro-choice nonsense, but society needs to take a stand, and enforce laws. Its like saying that if I feel **** and want to steal from my neighbours to make me feel better, then I should have the choice to do that. Ridiculous pro-choice arguments which completely fail to take into account the larger implications and consequences of actions in society.

Originally posted by muffen
Don't you think the world would be better if people cared less about the things other people do, and more about their own happiness?

No, that would be a completely selfish world. How horrible a notion.

Originally posted by muffen
I would agree with a lot of things you said if we were discussing heavier stuff, but weed... nah.. if people enjoy smoking it then so be it... it doesn't hurt you.. so why fight it?

It kills your brain cells, can kill your ambition and turn you into a cabbage head. It also causes lung cancer.

Originally posted by muffen
Heroin, Crack and anything else than disables your ability and makes you unable to function as a productive person in society should be kept illegal!

Someone who sits around smoking blow all day being stoned outta their bin is not a productive member of society. And if you think that cannabis doesnt make you unable to function, you obviously werent smoking the stuff I was, or maybe not as much.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Originally posted by neXus9
.

I know a few people that have eventually confessed to being addicted to hash(!), although it took them awhile to admit it. They are still taking huge amounts of it, and have successfully thrown their ambitions away (they don't even go out on the weekend anymore, aslong as they have thier hash).

does this amuse anyone else ?

Wolfie

Originally posted by Senor_Fudge
if its what we've always been programmed to do by your rational then why are u claiming its unnatural?

Oh dear... responding to feel-good endorphins is the reward system of the brain, to teach us over our evolution what is good for us to do and what is bad for us to do. Taking drugs you are unnaturally stimulating and releasing these endorphins. The key word being unnaturally.

Put down the drugs you children, and pick up a book! Feed your brains, dont mess it up.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

but weed grows naturally, it's as natural for us to consume weed as it is for us to consume potatoes.

Wolfie

Originally posted by king_of_inismac
Ding dong!!!

well said fudge ;P

<off topic> fudge, your pm box is full, have you got your new phone yet, pm me man </off topic>

Do you feel stupid now? Backing up a logically incorrect ...ehhmm.. 'argument'.. from your mate? Ding dong!

Wolfie

Originally posted by Mordeth
but weed grows naturally, it's as natural for us to consume weed as it is for us to consume potatoes.

Opium poppies grow naturally too, and strychnine, so I guess we should consume those too?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

because you just said it was incorrect..
it was incorrect?

wow
that's a hell of a super power you've got there, sure beats my ability to open any jamjar found in kitchens all over Ireland

opium can be physically addictive... potatoes and marijuana can not. mental addictions *what you seem to be against* are an entirely personal thing, do you also want to ban computer games as I know a few people who I could say are addicted to them... they're a menace.

king_of_inismac

Do you feel stupid now? Backing up a logically incorrect ...ehhmm.. 'argument'.. from your mate? Ding dong!

In a word "no".

Do you not think that stooping to personal insults will enhance your agrument?

I think not...

Wolfie

Originally posted by king_of_inismac
In a word "no".

Do you not think that stooping to personal insults will enhance your agrument?

I think not...

I didnt insult you, just asked you a question. I'm always interested in the mental workings of others.

vibe666

Originally posted by neXus9
Sorry kid, but Iv'e talked to people that were addicted to coke, and have known someone that had to go to counseling to sort his brain out from the amount of e that he had consumed.

yes of course you have. at 22 you're calling people 'kid'. yeah you must have done loads. :rolleyes:

Your'e childish into thinking that just because your not addicted to coke and E, that it's gonna be pretty hard for everyone else to get addicted. Anything that's good has the potential to be addictive. Is that a new drug??? Iv'e only heard of ectasy!!!:rolleyes:

and it's not childish to try and enforce your argument by picking apart my spelling?