10k gone out of sister account using roblox in 3 months

seamus1980 · 04-07-2019 12:29pm #1

Hello guys,i am looking for a bit of advise,a sister of mine has a son aged 8 and played alot of roblox,My sister didnt log in really much to her bank account until the other day,To her shock here son was using her bank card buying stuff of roblox,As you can guess she is furious:mad::mad: with him,She got on to roblox and they asked for all the transactions which were made(10k gone in 3 months)and they would send then to the accounts department and they would look into it, they also said not to contact her bank,My question should she speak to her bank and never mind what roblox said?Any information would be great.Thanks so much all

Johnnio13 · 04-07-2019 12:33pm

Seems to come up a bit Seamus.
From Roblox:
I have an unauthorized charge on my Card or PayPal account!

If you notice charges on your card or PayPal bill that you did not authorize, please contact Customer Service. Contact Roblox before disputing any charges with your card vendor or bank so we can assist with any charges eligible for refund.

When reporting charges make sure to provide the following:

List the charges by date and amount
Billing Name
Last four digits of the card used or the PayPal account email address
Roblox username (if known)

SusieBlue · 04-07-2019 12:39pm

This happened to someone I know, it was a couple of hundred quid rather than 10k though!

She disputed it but had no luck, she tried to do a charge back and had no luck with that either. Apparently its all there in the terms and conditions and she got nowhere with it. Maybe your sister will have a better shot at it.

Rmulvany · 04-07-2019 12:39pm

Not familiar with the game but surely there is no way you that 10k could be spent on in-game transactions? Even in 3 months.
I would be interested to know what the Roblox receipts say if and when they come back.

Definitely speak to your bank, them telling you not to would be a red flag for me. Even if you can get their opinion on your best route of action.

It looks like your nephew will be playing Roblox for a long time

seamus1980 · 04-07-2019 12:40pm

Johnnio13 wrote: »

Seems to come up a bit Seamus.
From Roblox:
I have an unauthorized charge on my Card or PayPal account!

If you notice charges on your card or PayPal bill that you did not authorize, please contact Customer Service. Contact Roblox before disputing any charges with your card vendor or bank so we can assist with any charges eligible for refund.

When reporting charges make sure to provide the following:

List the charges by date and amount
Billing Name
Last four digits of the card used or the PayPal account email address
Roblox username (if known)

Thanks mate i will wait until roblox respond

BillyBird · 04-07-2019 12:41pm

seamus1980 wrote: »

Hello guys,i am looking for a bit of advise,a sister of mine has a son aged 8 and played alot of roblox,My sister didnt log in really much to her bank account until the other day,To her shock here son was using her bank card buying stuff of roblox,As you can guess she is furious:mad::mad: with him,She got on to roblox and they asked for all the transactions which were made(10k gone in 3 months)and they would send then to the accounts department and they would look into it, they also said not to contact her bank,My question should she speak to her bank and never mind what roblox said?Any information would be great.Thanks so much all

I think the reason they don't want you to contact the bank is that they don't want you to kick off a charge back with the bank before they've had a chance to review.

This is fair enough if they plan to refund the money in full.

However I'd give the bank a call to see what time limits they place on chargebacks. I'd also discuss the issue with the bank to see their view on where you stand. The bank will in any case most likely tell you to try to resolve with Roblox first.

In any case I'd be pushing for a full refund from Roblo, don't settle for a partial refund.

seamus1980 · 04-07-2019 12:42pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

This happened to someone I know, it was a couple of hundred quid rather than 10k though!

She disputed it but had no luck, she tried to do a charge back and had no luck with that either. Apparently its all there in the terms and conditions and she got nowhere with it. Maybe your sister will have a better shot at it.

Thank you,hopefully she will

seamus1980 · 04-07-2019 12:43pm

Rmulvany wrote: »

Not familiar with the game but surely there is no way you that 10k could be spent on in-game transactions? Even in 3 months.
I would be interested to know what the Roblox receipts say if and when they come back.

Definitely speak to your bank, them telling you not to would be a red flag for me. Even if you can get their opinion on your best route of action.

It looks like your nephew will be playing Roblox for a long time

Yea mate it was 10k as she has all the paper to prove so

Tasfasdf · 04-07-2019 12:46pm

seamus1980 wrote: »

Yea mate it was 10k as she has all the paper to prove so

Dam, did he buy the game company with all that money. Anyways surely since its unauthorised use of card there has to be some way to get the money back.

SusieBlue · 04-07-2019 12:49pm

I think they came back and said that it was the responsibility of the card holder to ensure it was used safely and with authorization, and that if she saved her card details to the account and left her son on it unsupervised that wasn't their problem.

Not to make you lose hope but if you google it you'll find thousands of similar cases and people seldom get their money back.

nuac · 04-07-2019 12:53pm

Mod

To move onto legal discussion can anyone put up the terms and conditions under which that service operates?

Surprised that an eight year old can incur such a liability

Johnny Jukebox · 04-07-2019 1:01pm

This happened to me when my son ran up about 500 euro worth of in-app purchases on the Apple Store.

I requested a full refund on the basis that he did not have explicit permission to use the CC associated with the account for the purchases. They reviewed in some depth and refunded in full.

This may, however, have influenced their policy at the time.

https://www.cio.com/article/2388045/apple-to-settle-class-action-lawsuit-on-in-app-purchases-by-minors.html

Thoie · 04-07-2019 1:07pm

nuac wrote: »

Mod

To move onto legal discussion can anyone put up the terms and conditions under which that service operates?

Surprised that an eight year old can incur such a liability

https://en.help.roblox.com/hc/en-us/articles/115004647846-Roblox-Terms-of-Use

As with many online games, you connect a credit card to the account for a subscription, and that can be used for making in game purchases. On Google Android, for example, you can set things up so that any payments being made against the google account (your credit card), require a password each time. Many parents seem to miss this. They connect a device to their account, and once you're in the device you can pretty much buy anything. The device password is separate from the google account password. So the child knows that the device password is "1111" and use it to play their favourite game. Because the parent hasn't locked down the payments, the child can click any "buy now" button, and the transaction is authorised.

https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/1626831?hl=en&ref_topic=3365267

I don't know about other systems like Apple and Microsoft, but Google have numerous ways to protect against this kind of scenario. Their default is that every transaction requires authorisation (by way of a password, for example). If you've given your password to your 8 year old, or turned off authentication, it's akin to giving a child their own credit card and telling them to go wild.

Samuel T. Cogley · 06-07-2019 11:54am

I've always wondered if there is adequacy or sufficiency (can't remember which one is relevant here) to these transactions for virtual goods.

Samuel T. Cogley · 06-07-2019 11:56am

Thoie wrote: »

I don't know about other systems like Apple and Microsoft, but Google have numerous ways to protect against this kind of scenario. Their default is that every transaction requires authorisation (by way of a password, for example). If you've given your password to your 8 year old, or turned off authentication, it's akin to giving a child their own credit card and telling them to go wild.

Hopefully it is that because in that scenario I'd suggest that the child lacks the capacity to contract, except for necessities. I'd further suggest that the only way for these sort of companies to enforce would be to say password was used, password is yours ergo you made the transactions. If they admit they believe the child made the transactions surely the parent is home free?

Thoie · 08-07-2019 11:37am

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Hopefully it is that because in that scenario I'd suggest that the child lacks the capacity to contract, except for necessities. I'd further suggest that the only way for these sort of companies to enforce would be to say password was used, password is yours ergo you made the transactions. If they admit they believe the child made the transactions surely the parent is home free?

In my (non-legal) mind, it'd be the same as giving a child your credit card and PIN, and letting them loose in a toy shop with self-service checkout. The assumption is that if you have my card and my PIN, then you're me.

Anyone know what the legal situation would be if that happened in a real shop with self-service checkouts?

gibgodsman · 08-07-2019 12:00pm

Sorry to say but your completely liable for that 10k, you gave a child a phone with a credit card attached and expected nothing to happen? How can people be so careless. Yeah the game is disgusting taking your money, but there is literally nothing you can do about that, a Charge back will fail and if it doesn't fully expect Roblox parent company to sue

GooglePlus · 08-07-2019 12:05pm

Can they carry out a chargeback with the card provider?

An indemnity claim isn't an option, as it wasn't a direct debit.

runawaybishop · 08-07-2019 2:44pm

The bank won't do a chargeback, as far as they are concerned there is no evidence the transaction is incorrect as it was authenticated. Only Roblox can refund you, Microsoft cannot help either.

Jupiter Mulligan · 08-07-2019 2:57pm

nuac wrote: »

Mod

To move onto legal discussion can anyone put up the terms and conditions under which that service operates?

Surprised that an eight year old can incur such a liability

The eight year old didn't incur the liability, the cardholder did.

coylemj · 08-07-2019 4:56pm

I don't understand how you can do a chargeback when it involves a debit from a current account. If I buy a banger for 2K from a local motor dealer using my debit card and it turns out to be a turkey, will my bank entertain a chargeback and give me my money back? Will they 'eck!

Samuel T. Cogley · 08-07-2019 5:15pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I've always wondered if there is adequacy or sufficiency (can't remember which one is relevant here) to these transactions for virtual goods.

Sorry missed 'of consideration' in the above.

Samuel T. Cogley · 08-07-2019 5:17pm

Thoie wrote: »

In my (non-legal) mind, it'd be the same as giving a child your credit card and PIN, and letting them loose in a toy shop with self-service checkout. The assumption is that if you have my card and my PIN, then you're me.

Anyone know what the legal situation would be if that happened in a real shop with self-service checkouts?

To me that's an analogous scenario alright, but lets assume the card T&C's say 'in the event of use by a child the parent is responsible' I think that term would be void given contracts with minors are voidable.

My jargon might be off it's been a while.

Mundo7976 · 08-07-2019 5:20pm

How it took three months to realise such big amounts were being spent!!
Think the child may have way more privilages than they should!

micks_address · 08-07-2019 5:22pm

We had something much smaller with FIFA points a few years ago. Our son order 125 euro of ultimate team points from the ea store on PlayStation. They would have refunded if he hadn't used but he had opened the packs or whatever so no joy. Lesson learned never leave an active payment method on the PlayStation account... Can't imagine how you wouldn't miss 10k though unless you were very wealthy..

ED E · 08-07-2019 5:23pm

Rmulvany wrote: »

Not familiar with the game but surely there is no way you that 10k could be spent on in-game transactions? Even in 3 months.

Hah, you'd think but no. Most FTP games work on <1% of players who are "whales" and spend a fortune.

Star Citizen, a game that is not finished and may not ever be, has sold $27,000 ship packs before. Thats not a typo.

Thoie · 08-07-2019 5:26pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

To me that's an analogous scenario alright, but lets assume the card T&C's say 'in the event of use by a child the parent is responsible' I think that term would be void given contracts with minors are voidable.

My jargon might be off it's been a while.

But the contract wouldn't be with the child, the contract is with the adult?

If my mother gives me (an adult) her credit card and PIN, and asks me to go buy X for her. While out, I also spend €1,000 on myself on her card. In that scenario the bank would hold her responsible, as her card wasn't stolen/skimmed - she gave it to me. Now, she might be able to have me arrested for theft, but she'd still owe the money to the bank.

To my mind it'd be the same situation if I was a child, except she may not be able to have me done for theft.

Samuel T. Cogley · 08-07-2019 5:39pm

Thoie wrote: »

But the contract wouldn't be with the child, the contract is with the adult?

If my mother gives me (an adult) her credit card and PIN, and asks me to go buy X for her. While out, I also spend €1,000 on myself on her card. In that scenario the bank would hold her responsible, as her card wasn't stolen/skimmed - she gave it to me. Now, she might be able to have me arrested for theft, but she'd still owe the money to the bank.

To my mind it'd be the same situation if I was a child, except she may not be able to have me done for theft.

I just can't see how the parent is vicariously liable given the child made the transaction and contracts with children are voidable. In the above scenario you give I'm sure some sort of agency situation comes into play.

micks_address · 08-07-2019 6:07pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Thoie wrote: »

But the contract wouldn't be with the child, the contract is with the adult?

If my mother gives me (an adult) her credit card and PIN, and asks me to go buy X for her. While out, I also spend €1,000 on myself on her card. In that scenario the bank would hold her responsible, as her card wasn't stolen/skimmed - she gave it to me. Now, she might be able to have me arrested for theft, but she'd still owe the money to the bank.

To my mind it'd be the same situation if I was a child, except she may not be able to have me done for theft.

I just can't see how the parent is vicariously liable given the child made the transaction and contracts with children are voidable. In the above scenario you give I'm sure some sort of agency situation comes into play.

Well how can you prove it wasn't the parent playing the game?

Samuel T. Cogley · 08-07-2019 6:08pm

micks_address wrote: »

Well how can you prove it wasn't the parent playing the game?

The standard of proof is the balance of probabilities. Sworn testimony, if it came to that, would arguably be enough.

splinter65 · 08-07-2019 6:15pm

micks_address wrote: »

Well how can you prove it wasn't the parent playing the game?

Exactly.

10k gone out of sister account using roblox in 3 months

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