So who's going to see the Pope?

Spanish Eyes · 08-08-2018 12:23am

If anyone has any doubts or misgivings about this World Meeting of Families, leave it out. Don't go, leave them at it.

They are a small minority of people who will self destruct soon enough anyway. The Abortion Ref was a big signal anyway, whether you agree with it or not. It is the will of the people against the ultras.

My biggest concern is that I have to travel that day, and there is still no firm information about road closures and the like. Tut tut.

Anyway, I hope they all enjoy themselves singing Kumbaya and so on, having walked a few kms to the venue with their fold up seats under their arms.

Sounds delightful.

Twenty Grand · 08-08-2018 12:30am

Worshippers attending the Phoenix Park for the Pope's visit run the risk of contracting infectious diseases, health experts have warned.

Temporary morgues are already planned for the event over fears that a small percentage of the 500,000 crowd will die from natural causes, given the age profile of the attendees.

Fcuking hell. Coffin dodgers be coughing dodgers.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/unique-health-risk-crowds-at-papal-mass-run-risk-of-infectious-diseases-37191262.html

Spanish Eyes · 08-08-2018 12:35am

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Fcuking hell. Coffin dodgers be coughing dodgers.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/unique-health-risk-crowds-at-papal-mass-run-risk-of-infectious-diseases-37191262.html

Die in ecstasy, Pope will bless your corpse my dears, RIP.

Back to the OP. I won't be going although I have the offer of a seat in the VIP area from someone working behind the scenes. Nope. I'd rather be on my way to the country, but I don't know if the main road will be closed or not yet! That's fkn bugging me. I'm a planner, and this is driving me a bit wild.

Twenty Grand · 08-08-2018 12:53am

Anybody with any sense would be off to Tayto Park for the day and you'd have the place to yourself.

I do it most years the day of the all Ireland.

ELM327 · 08-08-2018 7:45am

realdanbreen wrote: »

It's kind of strange that when Mary was President she never mentioned any of this. In fact she put herself out there as a staunch Catholic.

It's almost as if , a certain, magical paedophile organisation, exerted some sort of control over her.

realdanbreen · 08-08-2018 8:13am

ELM327 wrote: »

It's almost as if , a certain, magical paedophile organisation, exerted some sort of control over her.

That could be the case although what might have happened is she weighed up which stance might suit her best at the time. Why I can recall her in several images going the whole hog in Mantilla and black clothing!

ELM327 · 08-08-2018 8:17am

realdanbreen wrote: »

That could be the case although what might have happened is she weighed up which stance might suit her best at the time. Why I can recall her in several images going the whole hog in Mantilla and black clothing!

I don't even like mcaleese anyway.

But she's right here, and I suppose the church tried and succeeded to silence her back in the day.

volchitsa · 08-08-2018 8:30am

realdanbreen wrote: »

It's kind of strange that when Mary was President she never mentioned any of this. In fact she put herself out there as a staunch Catholic.

She is, afaik. Do you think that having any doubts or issues over any of the Vatican's actions or teachings immediately makes her a non-Catholic?

(And if practicing Catholics aren't allowed to criticise without being accused of not being "proper" Catholics, what about non Catholics criticising? A case of telling non members to mind their own business, I suppose. Which rather nearly ties up any possible criticism from any source at all. Good job!)

realdanbreen · 08-08-2018 8:49am

volchitsa wrote: »

She is, afaik. Do you think that having any doubts or issues over any of the Vatican's actions or teachings immediately makes her a non-Catholic?

No, and of course I never said that. It just seems a little cynical that her 'doubts or issues' didn't surface until now.

volchitsa · 08-08-2018 8:57am

realdanbreen wrote: »

No, and of course I never said that. It just seems a little cynical that her 'doubts or issues' didn't surface until now.

She hadn't gone public with them. Doesn't mean she didn't have them.
And if she had used her platform as president to criticise the church like this, would you have been happy enough with that? Because I think most Catholics would have been incandescent. The president treads a fine line that McAleese the private citizen no longer has to.

(I don't even specially like her, but this attempt to discredit her becau if her criticism is transparent - it reminds me strongly of the way the church chose to protect child abusers rather than allow any criticism that might touch the church at all.)

realdanbreen · 08-08-2018 9:12am

I think a lot of people need to cop on when it comes to taking at face value what public figures say. Whether is Mcaleese, Higgins, the pope, all politicians. These people wouldn't even fart without first gauging what the implications are for them.

Hitman3000 · 08-08-2018 9:20am

realdanbreen wrote:

I think a lot of people need to cop on when it comes to taking at face value what public figures say. Whether is Mcaleese, Higgins, the pope, all politicians. These people wouldn't even fart without first gauging what the implications are for them.

I believe there is merit in her claims simply because of the past behaviour of the church and it's defenders. The length of time it has taken her to voice those claims is irrelevant.

seamus · 08-08-2018 9:26am

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Fcuking hell. Coffin dodgers be coughing dodgers.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/unique-health-risk-crowds-at-papal-mass-run-risk-of-infectious-diseases-37191262.html

Well it makes sense.

Back-of-napkin calculations:

The death rate of 65+ age group is 38/1000/year. So of those 500,000, statistically 19,000 of them will die this year.

Which means that over the two days of the Pope's visit, about 100 of the visitors will die.

Which doesn't sound like a lot, but in general for any large event, 1 death is expected, 2 is unusual, and any more than that is exceptional.

Hitman3000 · 08-08-2018 9:34am

Former foreign affairs minister Dermot Ahern is claiming the Vatican sought an indemity in 2004 against abuse allegations. That puts an end to the nonsense that some on here have claimed the Vatican is not responsible for what happened here.

volchitsa · 08-08-2018 9:40am

realdanbreen wrote: »

I think a lot of people need to cop on when it comes to taking at face value what public figures say. Whether is Mcaleese, Higgins, the pope, all politicians. These people wouldn't even fart without first gauging what the implications are for them.

If you saying she is lying, and you have some evidence for that, then you have a good point.

If you are simply accusing her of not being brave enough to risk speaking the truth until she had some personal interest in doing so, or at least nothing to lose, then big deal.

We're not discussing her own personal character, but the church's past actions. So what matters is whether what she says is true or not. And it looks as though it is.

....... · 08-08-2018 9:45am

This post has been deleted.

volchitsa · 08-08-2018 10:01am

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

So far, it seems it's just another case of shooting the messenger. They loved her until she started criticising the Catholic church.

Hermy · 08-08-2018 6:28pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Former foreign affairs minister Dermot Ahern is claiming the Vatican sought an indemity in 2004 against abuse allegations. That puts an end to the nonsense that some on here have claimed the Vatican is not responsible for what happened here.

Why do you think he and McAleese kept that quiet for so long?
And why are they suddenly coming out with it now?

Hitman3000 · 08-08-2018 6:30pm

Hermy wrote:

Why do you think he and McAleese kept that quiet for so long? And why are they suddenly coming out with it now?

I don't care why they are doing it now, just that they are.

Hermy · 08-08-2018 6:32pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I don't care why they are doing it now, just that they are.

It's just that it seems bizarre to me that they kept this to themselves for so long.
Why the hell didn't either of them feel the need to announce it when it happened.

Hitman3000 · 08-08-2018 6:35pm

Hermy wrote:

It's just that it seems bizarre to me that they kept this to themselves for so long. Why the hell didn't either of them feel the need to announce it when it happened.

Did you miss where I said I don't care why? Just that they have.

Hermy · 08-08-2018 6:39pm

But somebody else might care.
And if you really don't care why bother responding?

volchitsa · 08-08-2018 6:44pm

Hermy wrote: »

It's just that it seems bizarre to me that they kept this to themselves for so long.
Why the hell didn't either of them feel the need to announce it when it happened.

Dunno, but I can think of several possible reasons. So what?
You seem to be trying to suggest that this means it isn't true, but you haven't explained why and I can't see what the logic behind that might be.

Other than a general frantic handwave about how nasty this means she is, and therefore not to be trusted? Which is not evidence you know.

Under His Eye · 08-08-2018 6:44pm

Anyone get their papal tickets?

Hermy · 08-08-2018 6:53pm

volchitsa wrote: »

You seem to be trying to suggest that this means it isn't true...

Definitely not my intention - sorry if it comes across that way.

I'm just baffled by the story...

The Vatican approached our then President and Foreign Minister asking them for protection from litigation at a time when there were two ongoing inquiries into clerical sexual abuse in Ireland and the two of them sit on this information for the guts of fifteen years.

Edgware · 08-08-2018 6:59pm

volchitsa wrote: »

So far, it seems it's just another case of shooting the messenger. They loved her until she started criticising the Catholic church.

The main thing is we are all talking about Mary. She was always good to do her Mammy knows best act. She missed being in the headlines

volchitsa · 08-08-2018 7:00pm

Hermy wrote: »

Definitely not my intention - sorry if it comes across that way.

I'm just baffled by the story...

The Vatican approached our then President and Foreign Minister asking them for protection from litigation at a time when there were two ongoing inquiries into clerical sexual abuse in Ireland the two of them sit on this information for the guts of fifteen years.

Ok fair enough. Personally I wonder why Martin McAleese brought out the Magdalene report the way he did and then clear off to Rome without answering any questions, but if he were now prepared to answer those questions I'd say "better late than never" rather than start complaining about why he didn't do it at the time.

So yes, otoh I do think the McAleeses (both) have been far too cosy with the church for me to have a lot of time for them, but otoh, given that closeness over the years, if either or both of the McAleeses are now prepared to put a bit more distance in that relationship and tell the rest of us more of what was going on behind the scenes, well, they are particularly well placed to have that information aren't they?

So maybe they should have done it years ago, but better late than never - right?

volchitsa · 08-08-2018 7:10pm

Edgware wrote: »

The main thing is we are all talking about Mary. She was always good to do her Mammy knows best act. She missed being in the headlines

So? Does that mean it's made up? Because that's really all that matters in this thing.

Anyway, she's the ex-pres - she could get into the headlines without displeasing her friends at the Vatican if she wanted.

Hermy · 08-08-2018 7:18pm

The McAleese's and many others in political office in Ireland are far too cosy with the Church for my liking.

When the investigations took place it wasn't just the abuse that was at issue but also the extent to which the Church sought to cover up those abuses.
And the approaches by Sodano amount to much the same thing - protecting the Church at the expense of those it had abused.
And that McAleese and Ahern didn't see fit to put this information in the public domain at the time begs the question about their desire to see justice for the victims.

volchitsa · 08-08-2018 7:24pm

Hermy wrote: »

The McAleese's and many others in political office in Ireland are far too cosy with the Church for my liking.

When the investigations took place it wasn't just the abuse that was at issue but also the extent to which the Church sought to cover up those abuses.
And the approaches by Sodano amount to much the same thing - protecting the Church at the expense of those it had abused.
And that McAleese and Ahern didn't see fit to put this information in the public domain at the time begs the question about their desire to see justice for the victims.

Unless the Vatican's request was granted (and McAleese says it wasn't) that's a subsidiary question though. The abuse itself and the actual cover up have to come first.

I would be very sceptical of any attempt to spread the blame anywhere else, myself.

Hermy · 08-08-2018 7:33pm

I don't doubt that it wasn't granted but were McAleese and Ahern not protecting the Church by keeping these approaches private at the time?
Perhaps if they had been made public at the time the increased pressure on the Church may have had a more favourable outcome for the victims of abuse.

08-08-2018 8:29pm

Hermy wrote: »

And why are they suddenly coming out with it now?

I like your question.

However, I don't have "the" answer.

I would imagine it's somewhat opportunistic?

For what motive, not sure.

But I like your question.

....... · 09-08-2018 9:43am

Hermy wrote: »

Why do you think he and McAleese kept that quiet for so long?

Probably at the time neither of them wanted to take any risks with their respective jobs. Ireland was a very different place 15 years ago. In recent years the population as a whole has made it clear that they dont care about the church and what it says. SSM, abortion referendum etc.. There was a time when the church still held an opinion that people listened to - no more.

Hermy wrote: »

And why are they suddenly coming out with it now?

Probably to cause maximum damage. Upset the popes visit etc...

volchitsa · 09-08-2018 11:11am

Hermy wrote: »

I don't doubt that it wasn't granted but were McAleese and Ahern not protecting the Church by keeping these approaches private at the time?

Possibly. Which wouldn't reflect well on them if so.

Or maybe they genuinely believed it would be wrong of them to break confidentiality for some reason, perhaps because they believed that change could be brought about better by church members working from within rather than by public announcements that would be seen as hostile?

Who knows?

I can think of other possible reasons too, and variants thereof. Which is why I don't think it's an important question, unless there is evidence that they had a sinister motive, either then or now.

If it had happened, that would be different. Including if someone else took the Vatican up on its request. That is the only possible reason I can see which might make it an important question - that by speaking out before, they would have prevented someone else collaborating. And that is not impossible.

Hermy wrote: »

Perhaps if they had been made public at the time the increased pressure on the Church may have had a more favourable outcome for the victims of abuse.

Maybe. With hindsight, of course. But TBF it's hard to explain just how ineffective the government has been in getting a favourable outcome for them - remember that the names weren't published in the reports supposedly because there were going to be waves of trials. None of which happened.

To what extent was McAleese naive in expecting things to be dealt with without her throwing oil on the fire, and to what extent was this sort of conflict avoidance from the authorities actually part of the reason why they church got off so lightly?

Again, who knows? And it may or may not have made a difference - but why they got off is not the problem yet. The real question is why is the church still in such a position of power all these years later, and what are we going to do about it?

ELM327 · 13-08-2018 8:28am

So.. They are not vetting the tickets at all. I received a myriad of emails this morning to all my email addresses.
All with the same content.
12 tickets for CLOSING MASS RED ROUTE CITY
Phoenix Park, Dublin
26/08/2018 15:00 Dublin

12 STANDING ticket(s)

Total charge: EUR 0.00

Ticket delivery: Print at home

YOU MUST PRINT OUT YOUR TICKETS

Donald Trump · 13-08-2018 8:53am

ELM327 wrote: »

So.. They are not vetting the tickets at all. I received a myriad of emails this morning to all my email addresses.
All with the same content.
12 tickets for CLOSING MASS RED ROUTE CITY
Phoenix Park, Dublin
26/08/2018 15:00 Dublin

12 STANDING ticket(s)

Total charge: EUR 0.00

Ticket delivery: Print at home

YOU MUST PRINT OUT YOUR TICKETS

What a fucking hero.

A relative of mine wanted to book a ticket but they had all been taken. She was going through her last round of chemo at the time so she obviously had other things on her mind. Only just getting over it now. Luckily another relative had a spare one because someone couldn't go but she had friends in similar situations. She had been very disappointed when she couldn't get one.

Ah but sure, it gives your miserable life a sense of purpose eh? The hope that you might ruin something for someone else. This is probably the pinnacle of your life achievements so we have to make allowances for that.

ELM327 · 13-08-2018 8:58am

Donald Trump wrote: »

What a fucking hero.

A relative of mine wanted to book a ticket but they had all been taken. She was going through her last round of chemo at the time so she obviously had other things on her mind. Only just getting over it now. Luckily another relative had a spare one because someone couldn't go but she had friends in similar situations. She had been very disappointed when she couldn't get one.

Ah but sure, it gives your miserable life a sense of purpose eh? The hope that you might ruin something for someone else. This is probably the pinnacle of your life achievements so we have to make allowances for that.

Couldn't care less about your (in all likelihood) falsehood sob story.
Dying or otherwise, if someone sees fit to support a paedophile organisation then they are fair game.

I'll be down at the garden of remembrance in solidarity with the victims of the catholic church on the day. So my conscience is more than clear. The fact that it still seems to be acceptable to support these monsters in this day and age speaks a lot for our victim shaming disgusting society. When all these dinosaurs (and the fact that the vast majority of the people attending this event will be the blue rinse brigade supports this theory) die out and we can have a truly free society free of abuse, the world will be a better place. CUrrently that idea seems more of a dystopia than a reality thouigh, when the head paedophile is welcomed here with open arms.

This will be looked back upon with the same incredulity in future that currently is reserved only for the fact that ireland's president sent condolences on the death of hitler.

Donald Trump · 13-08-2018 9:05am

ELM327 wrote: »

Couldn't care less about your (in all likelihood) falsehood sob story.
Dying or otherwise, if someone sees fit to support a paedophile organisation then they are fair game.

That tells us all we need to know about you as a person

ELM327 wrote: »

This will be looked back upon with the same incredulity in future that currently is reserved only for the fact that ireland's president sent condolences on the death of hitler.

You're rambling now. Stop digging.

I'm not going to bother to respond to you again and your evil cuntish posts

Tipperary animal lover · 13-08-2018 9:07am

Donald Trump wrote: »

What a fucking hero.

A relative of mine wanted to book a ticket but they had all been taken. She was going through her last round of chemo at the time so she obviously had other things on her mind. Only just getting over it now. Luckily another relative had a spare one because someone couldn't go but she had friends in similar situations. She had been very disappointed when she couldn't get one.

Ah but sure, it gives your miserable life a sense of purpose eh? The hope that you might ruin something for someone else. This is probably the pinnacle of your life achievements so we have to make allowances for that.

Infairness Donald, you could've got tickets up to a few weeks ago for Dublin, any one who really wanted one could've had them sorted, this is the way he's protesting against something he believes in, it's very unchristan like your response to him!!

The high horse brigade · 13-08-2018 9:10am

ELM327 wrote: »

So.. They are not vetting the tickets at all. I received a myriad of emails this morning to all my email addresses.
All with the same content.
12 tickets for CLOSING MASS RED ROUTE CITY
Phoenix Park, Dublin
26/08/2018 15:00 Dublin

12 STANDING ticket(s)

Total charge: EUR 0.00

Ticket delivery: Print at home

YOU MUST PRINT OUT YOUR TICKETS

Same. There seems to be no moderation at all. One of my orders had a name that was very obviously made up, I didn't expect them to be delivered but they did

....... · 13-08-2018 9:12am

Donald Trump wrote: »

A relative of mine wanted to book a ticket but they had all been taken. She was going through her last round of chemo at the time so she obviously had other things on her mind.

I wonder how the many thousands of people who have been raped, beaten, tortured and shamed my members of the clergy in Ireland feel when they hear that people want to go and see the pope?

Some of those folk will be terminally ill or going through chemo as well.

Donald Trump · 13-08-2018 9:21am

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

Infairness Donald, you could've got tickets up to a few weeks ago for Dublin, any one who really wanted one could've had them sorted, this is the way he's protesting against something he believes in, it's very unchristan like your response to him!!

What are you talking about?

Did you not read my post? What part of it makes you think I want tickets?

Why would you think I'm religious or give a fuck about being Christian or unchristian?

Too many sneering cuntish posts on here.

Anyone who purposely took up tickets in order to deprive others of the right to do something they want to do, and which is hurting nobody, is not protesting anything. They are just being an sad arsehole

Donald Trump · 13-08-2018 9:24am

....... wrote: »

I wonder how the many thousands of people who have been raped, beaten, tortured and shamed my members of the clergy in Ireland feel when they hear that people want to go and see the pope?

Some of those folk will be terminally ill or going through chemo as well.

Ask them if you are so concerned about them

But in reality you don't give a shite for those people other than them being a handy source of demagoguery when you don't have an actual argument

....... · 13-08-2018 9:27am

Donald Trump wrote: »

...evil cuntish posts

Donald Trump wrote: »

Too many sneering cuntish posts on here.

Well I guess youd know all about this:

Donald Trump wrote: »

...when you don't have an actual argument

CruelCoin · 13-08-2018 9:29am

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

The only God you need is Crom.

Nah dude,

Pikki Wokki the Papa New Guinean Mud God is where it's at.

Tipperary animal lover · 13-08-2018 9:34am

Donald Trump wrote: »

What are you talking about?

Did you not read my post? What part of it makes you think I want tickets?

Why would you think I'm religious or give a fuck about being Christian or unchristian?

Too many sneering cuntish posts on here.

Anyone who purposely took up tickets in order to deprive others of the right to do something they want to do, and which is hurting nobody, is not protesting anything. They are just being an sad arsehole

I've reread your post Donald and everything I said still stands, your talking about your relative and her friends not getting tickets when as I say again "you could've got tickets up to a few weeks ago" if you are that desperate to go, wouldn't you not have helped them out with them instead of complaining on here... just a taught!! I'm not sneering at you at all Donald it's just the way your coming across very defensive angry I'm always right kind of guy ...oh well have a nice Donald hope Tuesday is a better day for ya lad

eviltwin · 13-08-2018 9:36am

....... wrote: »

I wonder how the many thousands of people who have been raped, beaten, tortured and shamed my members of the clergy in Ireland feel when they hear that people want to go and see the pope?

Some of those folk will be terminally ill or going through chemo as well.

I'll tell you how it makes me feel. It makes me feel people don't care. After the revelations during the week about the attempt of the Vatican to bury evidence I thought it might make people think twice about it but obviously not. At this stage I just want him gone, all the fawning and light heartedness is making me mentally ill.

ELM327 · 13-08-2018 9:39am

Donald Trump wrote: »

That tells us all we need to know about you as a person

You're rambling now. Stop digging.

I'm not going to bother to respond to you again and your evil cuntish posts

I'm not rambling, you could ahve gotten tickets to see the head paedophile up to a couple of weeks ago. They didnt sell out, the time to book ran out.

Oh and "stop digging"... why is that, are there more buried children to find?

Donald Trump · 13-08-2018 9:47am

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

I've reread your post Donald and everything I said still stands, your talking about your relative and her friends not getting tickets when as I say again "you could've got tickets up to a few weeks ago" if you are that desperate to go, wouldn't you not have helped them out with them instead of complaining on here... just a taught!! I'm not sneering at you at all Donald it's just the way your coming across very defensive angry I'm always right kind of guy ...oh well have a nice Donald hope Tuesday is a better day for ya lad

Why do you keep saying that I could have gotten tickets weeks ago. What has that got to do with my post? I don't want tickets. My relative eventually got one via another relative who sourced one for her.

Where does it say in my post that I want a ticket in order to attend this event? How are you reading that from what I wrote? Seriously? Where does my post say I want anything?

You can't deny that around the country there are people who would like to attend but can't because tickets were dishonestly taken. Yeah, so what, maybe they should have known from instagram or snapchat how to get the links to order them. The fact that there are a lot of older people who didn't grow up with the internet or have access to it might not have registered with you.

There were a fixed amount of tickets. So even if one of those people had ordered a ticket just before the last one was taken, all it would have meant is that there would be a different person missing out. Not everyone is just selfishly focused on themselves. Some realise that even though they themselves might have gotten a ticket, the fact that dickheads dishonestly took them is still preventing someone else from having the option

....... · 13-08-2018 9:52am

Donald Trump wrote: »

You can't deny that around the country there are people who would like to attend but can't because tickets were dishonestly taken. Yeah, so what, maybe they should have known from instagram or snapchat how to get the links to order them. The fact that there are a lot of older people who didn't grow up with the internet or have access to it might not have registered with you.

There is no dishonest taking of tickets and its absolutely moronic to suggest that there was.

Free tickets are free tickets, everyone is equally entitled to request them - regardless of reason.

Everyone in the country had an equal chance to get tickets - if your makey uppey relative didnt manage to get one then thats their problem.

So who's going to see the Pope?

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