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So who's going to see the Pope?

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Comments



  • Wow, what a thread!

    It certainly has brought out some crazies....

    Sounds to me that it boils down to "any church sanctioned protest is acceptable, any other form of protest or free thinking is not"
    Comments like "if you want to protest you should just....<fill in ineffective form of protest here>"


    The amount of hate coming from the side of the debate that i least expected is an eye opener.




  • Shame it's at Croker as I find the sound very poor ...better suited to an indoor venue like Point




  • DellyBelly wrote: »
    Shame it's at Croker as I find the sound very poor ...better suited to an indoor venue like Point




    Croker? eh, no. I dont think you could fit 500,000 into Croker.




  • optogirl wrote: »
    My point is that you are also sneering. Sneering at people for having anger towards an institution that has caused serious harm. Just because you are able to ignore instances like Tuam, Magdalene laundries, rape on a massive scale, doesn't mean that you are enlightened and those of us who are still angry are idiots.


    Who said anything about ignoring anything.


    They're just he lazy boilerplate excuses wheeled out by anti-Catholic bigots. People who hate the institution just look out for any justification for same. They cannot distinguish between an organization and individuals within it. As you'll surely know, but will not acknowledge, crimes committed by those within the church were committing crimes that were prohibited and against the teaching of the same church. You'd have a point if the Pope was going around saying that those bad things that were done were "grand" or even encouraged. But he's not. He's trying to run a large organization, loosely of a billion people. You can't just go in and solve every issue in every corner within 5 minutes.



    As for rape on a massive scale, sure me local PP is a divil for the oul' raping. Heads out every evening for a spot of the oul' jackrolling so he does. Sure it's part of official Catholic teaching isn't it - thou shalt rape on a massive scale.




  • optogirl wrote: »
    ah jaysus - I meant that we are indoctrinated at a couple of months old. I wasn't saying the RCC are responsible for babies not being able to burp :P. Your comprehension level is poor. You might be able to blame an RCC education for that.




    You might want to re-read what I said. Ironically, consider your own remarks re: comprehension.



    You said that kids are indoctrinated before they can burp themselves


    I simply asked how many indoctrinated kids you know who cannot burp themselves (i.e. are extremely young)


    If you were indoctrinated at a few months, then you might want to blame your parents. Not the Pope. Claiming that any kid could already be indoctrinated into anything at a few months is silly


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  • As you'll surely know, but will not acknowledge, crimes committed by those within the church were committing crimes that were prohibited and against the teaching of the same church. You'd have a point if the Pope was going around saying that those bad things that were done were "grand" or even encouraged.

    There lies the problem for a lot of people. The church did cover up abuses on a grand scale. Il Papa is head of said church.




  • Omackeral wrote: »
    There lies the problem for a lot of people. The church did cover up abuses on a grand scale. Il Papa is head of said church.




    Grand. Get your evidence together there and send it to the Guards before the bould Pope comes in August. They can arrest him


    You do have evidence that he is covering up things? Yeah?



    Or why not help the guards into their investigations of these current cover ups before focusing on things from 5, 10, 20 100, 100 years ago




  • Strazdas wrote: »
    Taytoland wrote: »
    You could literally replace religion with ideologies, political parties. Political parties are all about group think, trying to beat the "other", the enemy etc. The Soviet Union under Lenin and Stalin outlawed religion and it was hell on earth for civil liberties and freedom.

    And as ideologies go, the basic Christian one for example was / is a good one. Love one another, practise forgiveness, look after the poor and the needy etc. Jesus never preached hatred or intolerance, his basic message was a very positive one.

    Many political ideologies sound a lot worse than this.
    I'm not a Christian but Jesus is arguably the greatest man to have ever lived. Probably the best philosopher of all time next to Aristotle.




  • Grand. Get your evidence together there and send it to the Guards before the bould Pope comes in August. They can arrest him

    You do have evidence that he is covering up things? Yeah?

    Or why not help the guards into their investigations of these current cover ups before focusing on things from 5, 10, 20 100, 100 years ago

    You've the nerve to question other people's comprehension capabilities!? I said he is the head of the Church. That's where some people's ire will naturally be directed to. Now if the head of the church responsible for said abuses is coming here, that becomes somewhat of an opportunity for people to release that ire. It's not a hard one to grasp, even for you.




  • Taytoland wrote: »
    I'm not a Christian but Jesus is arguably the greatest man to have ever lived. Probably the best philosopher of all time next to Aristotle.

    Agreed. Top lad and savage abs.


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  • You might want to re-read what I said. Ironically, consider your own remarks re: comprehension.



    You said that kids are indoctrinated before they can burp themselves


    I simply asked how many indoctrinated kids you know who cannot burp themselves (i.e. are extremely young)


    If you were indoctrinated at a few months, then you might want to blame your parents. Not the Pope. Claiming that any kid could already be indoctrinated into anything at a few months is silly

    what is baptism?




  • Omackeral wrote: »
    You've the nerve to question other people's comprehension capabilities!? I said he is the head of the Church. That's where some people's ire will naturally be directed to. Now if the head of the church responsible for said abuses is coming here, that becomes somewhat of an opportunity for people to release that ire. It's not a hard one to grasp, even for you.




    Grand. So your objective is reform and improvement of the church by strengthening its controls etc?


    It's not the total removal or even limitation of its influence?


    They sort out who dumped the babies in a tank rather than in a hole in the ground and you'll be happy then?



    In reality, most people going on about the babies in the tank don't give a crap other than it's a handy stick to have to hand to use to justify their views.




  • optogirl wrote: »
    what is baptism?




    This might help ya




  • Grand. So your objective is reform and improvement of the church by strengthening it's controls etc?


    It's not the total removal or even limitation of its influence?


    They sort out who dumped the babies in a tank rather than in a hole in the ground and you'll be happy then?

    Don't know what you're harping on about re the babies but the language you're using is fairly crass anyway.

    As far as limitation or removal of church influences in day to day life, I'm chuffed anytime anything passes which assists in that. Good Friday off sales getting the green light was a victory for common sense. Now, I can honestly say I've never been to one of these famous Good Friday house parties and I probably visit a pub half a dozen times a year, if that. Not the point though. Any religion dictating what ordinary Joes or Josephines can do is wrong.

    Same Sex Marriage passing was a victory for everyone. The church weren't mad on that. Glad to see their strangle hold evaporating. Blasphemy laws to go next. That would be obliterated I'd imagine.




  • Omackeral wrote: »
    Don't know what you're harping on about re the babies but the language you're using is fairly crass anyway.

    As far as limitation or removal of church influences in day to day life, I'm chuffed anytime anything passes which assists in that. Good Friday off sales getting the green light was a victory for common sense. Now, I can honestly say I've never been to one of these famous Good Friday house parties and I probably visit a pub half a dozen times a year, if that. Not the point though. Any religion dictating what ordinary Joes or Josephines can do is wrong.

    Same Sex Marriage passing was a victory for everyone. The church weren't mad on that. Glad to see their strangle hold evaporating. Blasphemy laws to go next. That would be obliterated I'd imagine.




    Well at least we're getting to the truth.


    You don't really care about the babies in the tank other than it's a handy tool for you to try to beat the church with. (I had added this point to my post but I think you had already quoted it).




    In that sense, the more abuses and crimes that are committed and uncovered, the happier a lot of people are.



    Alcohol licensing laws are controlled solely by the state. Referenda are controlled by the state. And each citizen can have one vote regardless of their religious beliefs or none. Why would you think otherwise?




  • Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Drawing out the easily outraged is also fun.
    You may try and stop with the personal attacks, even AH has some rules.

    The personal attacks from Donald Trump is why I withdrew from any discussion with him. Not sure how he’s getting away with the abuse.




  • The irony with those all out against the Catholic Church for example on the basis it "controls" aspects of their lives (i'd love to know what aspects these are incidentally) is that these are some of the exact same same people I don't see out protesting or causing uproar about Mosques being opened in Ireland for example - a religion I would consider far more insidious, intrusive and obstructive of human rights than any other.

    I don't consider myself of any religion but i'm happy for people to decide what it is they want or don't want to believe for themselves.

    If people want to see the Pope go for it. If people don't, it does not effect you so just stay away.

    As a rule of thumb people who interfere like that or act the gob****e with others are not liked.

    If you are not a catholic, couldn't be bothered or it has nothing to do with you just stay away. Let others enjoy the visit if that's what they want to do.




  • Well at least we're getting to the truth.
    You don't really care about the babies in the tank other than it's a handy tool for you to try to beat the church with. (I had added this point to my post but I think you had already quoted it).

    You're the one having a hard time wondering why people might have ill feeling towards the church. The above is one of many reasons. The sheer hypocrisy of the church trying to ''save our babies'' this summer when they participated in the above is brazen.
    Alcohol licensing laws are controlled solely by the state. Referenda are controlled by the state. And each citizen can have one vote regardless of their religious beliefs or none. Why would you think otherwise?

    The state, its laws and its institutions have been influenced massively by the RCC since its foundation. If you won't admit to that, there's no point continuing on really. Thankfully, the grip is loosening. It's wonderful.




  • The personal attacks from Donald Trump is why I withdrew from any discussion with him. Not sure how he’s getting away with the abuse.




    I did not mean to attack you personally.



    I will leave this thread now.


    I apologize for upsetting anyone. Except for the people who bought loads of tickets with the specific and sole intention to deny others. If I upset them, I will not withdraw those particular remarks. Any other remarks that caused upset or perceived as unfair or unjustified to anyone are withdrawn

    I will not post again in this one. Only editing this post to finalize my exit.


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  • The personal attacks from Donald Trump is why I withdrew from any discussion with him. Not sure how he’s getting away with the abuse.

    It's those god-damn massive spaces he puts between his ''points'' that irk me more than his blind ramblings.




  • I did not mean to attack you personally.



    I will leave this thread now.


    you attacked plenty of people personally and in a quite aggressive way.




  • As you'll surely know, but will not acknowledge, crimes committed by those within the church were committing crimes that were prohibited and against the teaching of the same church.

    As you surely know, the cover-up of abuse was the policy of the church.

    Bring back the :pac: !





  • The personal attacks from Donald Trump is why I withdrew from any discussion with him. Not sure how he’s getting away with the abuse.

    Same, I refuse to respond to the guy as all he can do is attack the poster and takes it to a very personal level.




  • As you surely know, the cover-up of abuse was the policy of the church.
    and not only here
    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2018/0626/973219-stolen-babies-trial/




  • The modern liberal - wants rid of Christianity, but up for more Islam.




  • The modern liberal - wants rid of Christianity, but up for more Islam.

    You mean rid of influence of the RCC on any part of Irish society? People are free to practise their faith as long as they keep it to themselves. That includes islam




  • You mean rid of influence of the RCC on any part of Irish society? People are free to practise their faith as long as they keep it to themselves. That includes islam

    Haha good luck riding influence of the church. Thou shalt not kill.




  • You mean rid of influence of the RCC on any part of Irish society? People are free to practise their faith as long as they keep it to themselves. That includes islam


    That's a contradiction, not that anyone actually needs permission in the first place when it's their legal right to do so under the Irish Constitution and under a number of legal Conventions. Even Leo is aware that's something his Government has no interest in doing anything about -


    'I believe in allowing women to become priests' - Taoiseach weighs in on unholy row between Josepha Madigan and Archbishop

    "As regards female priests, I believe in equality in all things and equality in the workplace. That would include priests to marry and allowing women to become priests.

    "I also strongly believe in the separation of Church and State so that is not something the Government is going to be legislating about," he said.


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  • That's a contradiction, not that anyone actually needs permission in the first place when it's their legal right to do so under the Irish Constitution and under a number of legal Conventions. Even Leo is aware that's something his Government has no interest in doing anything about -


    'I believe in allowing women to become priests' - Taoiseach weighs in on unholy row between Josepha Madigan and Archbishop
    How is it a contradiction? You don't want to drink on holy days- then don't, but don't force it on others by wanting pubs closed. You want your kids to be taught to a religious ethos ,work away but don't expect the state to fund those schools make them private and away you go.
    It's not that difficult a concept to understand.
    It is very easy to keep your religion to yourself. I never said anything about needing permission. But I see you exagerate as usual


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