Bus Eireann - seriously poor

Curb Your Enthusiasm · 30-01-2018 9:07pm #1

Hi all,

Just wondering if any of ye have had other issues with the BE city services in Cork.

My route, 223 has been notoriously poor but this week really is taking the pi$$.

Yesterday, first day back to college, I rely on the once a day (7.39 am) 223 service that goes direct to CIT rather than the usual South Mall.

This service picked me up in Rochestown, late as usual, however instead of going to CIT like it's supposed to, the bus went into the city to the bus station, parked at a bay, the driver got out and barked back at us that there was a driver change.

This was nearly 9am and this bus is supposed to be in CIT at 8.35am.

Another driver got on at the bus station a few mins later, drove around the corner, parked the bus. Looked back at us all and said "what are ye all doing here lads?!" And told us to get off the bus and walk to Patrick's Street to catch another service to CIT.

His response when asked what happened; "ah we needed the bus for something else". I arrived to CIT an hour later than I was supposed to, and missed half my first lecture of my first day back.

Just unbelievable.

And it gets worse. Today, this morning, I'm waiting for the same 7.39 am service to CIT. And the bus never showed up. Nothing. I was waiting for over an hour until I finally hopped on the next bus I saw which was only going to town. Late again.

Spoke to the most obnoxious man in the inspectors office at Parnell Pl bus station this morning, who refused to give me his name and when I asked about these services he simply began to rant about lack of drivers, "operational issues" (a blanket excuse that seems to be used by both drivers and customer service) and told me that "because we're not Dublin the drivers are treated like scum".
Absolutely obnoxious and unprofessional. I contacted the services manager in Capwell Depot but have not heard back yet.

I'm just lost for words at how poor this company is. They are nearly always late, however simply not showing up and also diverting services and kicking people off the bus to walk to another service is just unforgivable and a disgrace.

Monkstown, Passage West, Rochestown and other areas all rely on this service and it is absolutely ridiculous that we have to put up with these shananigans. It's just so, so poor. This again is a once a day, 5 times a week service that us students in these areas have to rely on.

Apologies for the long post but I wanted to stress just what's actually going on here.

What are my options here, with regards to bringing it to the attention of others and government bodies if needed? Because this isn't acceptable at all.

Thank you.

Gamb!t · 30-01-2018 9:47pm

BE buses are unreliable and have some really obnoxious staff.
You can message them on twitter or facebook and they will get you to fill out the complaint form.
Thankfully I don't have to rely on them as much anymore.

punisher5112 · 30-01-2018 9:52pm

Contact nta.

Email nta boss Anne Graham

Contact bus eireann chief executive and apply same to any manager you can get.

Also suggest any local TD.

That's shocking and is not on.

Keep a record of it all and keep at them about it.

Curb Your Enthusiasm · 30-01-2018 10:04pm

I've sent numerous complaints to them via email and twitter. The last two were never answered and the other was replied to after a month and a half. Useless. Bus Station didn't want to know. Staff are absolutely horrible.

boardsuser1 · 30-01-2018 10:16pm

I seen on Seamus McGrath’s Facebook post on the issue that a local private operator is willing to provide the buses if the support is there.

Whether Bus Eireann and the NTA would allow this is unlikely.

Does anyone know if that route is a PSO route?

I believe it might well be, which could create problems.

boardsuser1 · 30-01-2018 10:20pm

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

I've sent numerous complaints to them via email and twitter. The last two were never answered and the other was replied to after a month and a half. Useless. Bus Station didn't want to know. Staff are absolutely horrible.

The lads in Parnell place can’t do anything, the are lower down the Cork based pyramid.

Have you contacted Martin Walsh or Tom O’Leary in Capwell?

These are the 2 you should write to as a face to face meeting is probably next to impossible.

Curb Your Enthusiasm · 30-01-2018 10:28pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

The lads in Parnell place can’t do anything, the are lower down the Cork based pyramid.

Have you contacted Martin Walsh or Tom O’Leary in Capwell?

These are the 2 you should write to as a face to face meeting is probably next to impossible.

I understand they are limited in what they can do, however they were less than helpful when I approached them and just plain rude. There's no need for that and it just adds to the problem. I've contacted the services manager office in Capwell via phone and his secretary told me they would get back to me.

I would love another operator to operate the route as I'm sick of Bus Eireann as are a lot of people in Cork. I've chatted to a few others at stops in town who have similar issues with other routes also. "Phantom buses" seem to be a common complaint.. buses just not showing up.

I understand if the route is a PSO route this would be tricky.

Roca · 30-01-2018 10:39pm

Been on the 208 from the Northside a few mornings before 9am and when it got to the main bus station it stayed parked up. After about ten minutes there were an exodus of the bus..while the driver sat in the cab watching everyone get off.... after the third morning I rang bus eireann customer service..they told me the bus driver is entitled to a break.. I laughed..so I asked him why are your monitors saying Patrick st in 2 mins..he had no answer to that..the monitor should say coming down summerhill that bus is stopping at bus station because driver is having break..At least then should have a chance to get to work in time.

boardsuser1 · 30-01-2018 10:39pm

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

I understand they are limited in what they can do, however they were less than helpful when I approached them and just plain rude. There's no need for that and it just adds to the problem. I've contacted the services manager office in Capwell via phone and his secretary told me they would get back to me.

I would love another operator to operate the route as I'm sick of Bus Eireann as are a lot of people in Cork. I've chatted to a few others at stops in town who have similar issues with other routes also. "Phantom buses" seem to be a common complaint.. buses just not showing up.

I understand if the route is a PSO route this would be tricky.

As the son of a former Bus Eireann Driver I can understand the approach taken by the lads in Parnell place, but they could do it in a nicer more polite way.

Was it inspectors you were dealing with?

Based on what you describe, it sounds like a few inspectors I know of.

If you’ve had no success with Capwell go to Broadstonein Dublin, the head office of Bus Eireann.

I note that Seamus McGrath hasn’t publicly replied to the offer by the private operator to provide buses, most likely because he knows in his heart it’s unlikely.

A lot of these PSO route are heavily load making for Bus Eireann.

Would you rather some or all of the Cork routes were put out to tender in a similar fashion to that in Dublin and Waterford?

Bus Eireann won the Waterford tender while a private operator called ‘Go Ahead’ won the Dublin tender.

Tendering in itself can also have negative impacts however, poor buses/low drivers pay etc.

boardsuser1 · 30-01-2018 10:42pm

Roca wrote: »

Been on the 208 from the Northside a few mornings before 9am and when it got to the main bus station it stayed parked up. After about ten minutes there were an exodus of the bus..while the driver sat in the cab watching everyone get off.... after the third morning I rang bus eireann customer service..they told me the bus driver is entitled to a break.. I laughed..so I asked him why are your monitors saying Patrick st in 2 mins..he had no answer to that..the monitor should say coming down summerhill that bus is stopping at bus station because driver is having break..At least then should have a chance to get to work in time.

That was probably near mid shift for the driver.

They start at about 5.45/6am in Capwell in some routes, and that route is the busiest by far.

As for the software, I don’t know who programs that, I assume it is Volvo or Wright coach builders if it’s the Double deckers, Mercedes (mutec) if the 2016 single deckers.

pwurple · 30-01-2018 10:46pm

I have had the same issues the last couple of weeks.

55 minutes standing in the rain waiting for a 202 bus that is supposed to run every 15 mins. Asked the driver what was going on, didn’t know. The “real-time” app had 3 phantom buses on it in that time. Drove like he had never driven a bus before. Up on kerbs. Got stuck blocking traffic, took a wrong turn.

They seem to have stopped marking the number of the bus on them also. Just blank, or 1-lar.

Curb Your Enthusiasm · 30-01-2018 10:56pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

As the son of a former Bus Eireann Driver I can understand the approach taken by the lads in Parnell place, but they could do it in a nicer more polite way.

Was it inspectors you were dealing with?

Based on what you describe, it sounds like a few inspectors I know of.

If you’ve had no success with Capwell go to Broadstonein Dublin, the head office of Bus Eireann.

I note that Seamus McGrath hasn’t publicly replied to the offer by the private operator to provide buses, most likely because he knows in his heart it’s unlikely.

A lot of these PSO route are heavily load making for Bus Eireann.

Would you rather some or all of the Cork routes were put out to tender in a similar fashion to that in Dublin and Waterford?

Bus Eireann won the Waterford tender while a private operator called ‘Go Ahead’ won the Dublin tender.

Tendering in itself can also have negative impacts however, poor buses/low drivers pay etc.

Not sure if they were inspectors to be honest, however they were inside the inspectors office at the time. Judging from what they said to me they seemed to have a strong dislike for the company they work for and had no intention of even slightly helping me, even with contact details for Capwell, which I ended up finding online in my own time. He wouldn't even give me his name when I asked for it politely.

He told me with a smirk "my name is customer service advisor" and that "sure I only have to give my name to a guard if he asks". He also mentioned they were down 30 drivers and that I should "tweet Bus Eireann or something". These guys seem to do the absolute bare minimum and have no customer service skills whatsoever, which is a bit ridiculous consider they are working for such a customer-facing company.

magentis · 30-01-2018 11:10pm

This is the service level that our government is funding.

Small country.There are cities with bigger populations than Ireland with a tenth of the pen pushers(jobs for the boys)

Bus driver>local management>Bus Éireann board>CIÉ board>NTA>Dept of transport>Minister(too important for busses)Ross.

We have TFI in there too somewhere.

Most likely a ratio of 2 pen pushers to every driver.

It's leaving little money for the actual services.

boardsuser1 · 30-01-2018 11:11pm

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Not sure if they were inspectors to be honest, however they were inside the inspectors office at the time. Judging from what they said to me they seemed to have a strong dislike for the company they work for and had no intention of even slightly helping me, even with contact details for Capwell, which I ended up finding online in my own time. He wouldn't even give me his name when I asked for it politely.

He told me with a smirk "my name is customer service advisor" and that "sure I only have to give my name to a guard if he asks". He also mentioned they were down 30 drivers and that I should "tweet Bus Eireann or something". These guys seem to do the absolute bare minimum and have no customer service skills whatsoever, which is a bit ridiculous consider they are working for such a customer-facing company.

Down 30 drivers yet I applied to them recently and got no reply.

Perhaps I can see why that person doesn’t like his job if they are that short.

I’d say it was an inspector alright.

Tall,thin guy,moustache?

punisher5112 · 30-01-2018 11:15pm

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Not sure if they were inspectors to be honest, however they were inside the inspectors office at the time. Judging from what they said to me they seemed to have a strong dislike for the company they work for and had no intention of even slightly helping me, even with contact details for Capwell, which I ended up finding online in my own time. He wouldn't even give me his name when I asked for it politely.

He told me with a smirk "my name is customer service advisor" and that "sure I only have to give my name to a guard if he asks". He also mentioned they were down 30 drivers and that I should "tweet Bus Eireann or something". These guys seem to do the absolute bare minimum and have no customer service skills whatsoever, which is a bit ridiculous consider they are working for such a customer-facing company.

It's nothing against you personally so don't take it that way but you could have been any number of other passengers complaining.

It's extremely difficult working with the public and having no back up from your employer.

Not obviously saying you were wrong in any way but just understand it's very difficult.

Getting a name is something I won't ask for as its just condescending I feel and it's also something I don't like having to give out as then someone could easily start spreading it around online or through talking etc.

Go the nta boss route, bus eireann boss route and TD route.

Maybe a call to Joe Duffy on liveliness could be an idea also.

Best of luck with it as it is very poor service and it should not be like that.

I understand things will go wrong at times but not the same bus every day.

Curb Your Enthusiasm · 30-01-2018 11:24pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Down 30 drivers yet I applied to them recently and got no reply.

Perhaps I can see why that person doesn’t like his job if they are that short.

I’d say it was an inspector alright.

Tall,thin guy,moustache?

If it was indeed an inspector I'm shocked. It's just bizarre that these people are hired and in these kind of jobs with zero customer service or even basic people skills.

Curb Your Enthusiasm · 30-01-2018 11:27pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

It's nothing against you personally so don't take it that way but you could have been any number of other passengers complaining.

It's extremely difficult working with the public and having no back up from your employer.

Not obviously saying you were wrong in any way but just understand it's very difficult.

Getting a name is something I won't ask for as its just condescending I feel and it's also something I don't like having to give out as then someone could easily start spreading it around online or through talking etc.

Go the nta boss route, bus eireann boss route and TD route.

Maybe a call to Joe Duffy on liveliness could be an idea also.

Best of luck with it as it is very poor service and it should not be like that.

I understand things will go wrong at times but not the same bus every day.

I understand that some may be uncomfortable giving out their name, however I only wanted a first name or even ID number/something to reference when contacting customer service. I think that's fair.

He was incredibly unhelpful and rude. I deal with customers everyday in my job and would be fired if I even dared speak to a customer in such a manner. It's just unacceptable and makes the whole operation look even more unprofessional.

Look at Bus Eireann's customer charter; http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=374

They contradict it on a good few points;

Our drivers will be well presented, friendly, helpful and courteous to you at all times.

Buses and coaches will display correct destination information and/or route number at all times

Our staff at Bus stations will be well presented, friendly, helpful and courteous to you at all times.

It is our policy that no scheduled service should operate ahead of its timetable.

Staff at Bus Eireann are obviously not aware of the charter.

punisher5112 · 30-01-2018 11:30pm

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

I understand that some may be uncomfortable giving out their name, however I only wanted a first name or even ID number/something to reference when contacting customer service. I think that's fair.

He was incredibly unhelpful and rude. I deal with customers everyday in my job and would be fired if I even dared speak to a customer in such a manner. It's just unacceptable and makes the whole operation look even more unprofessional.

Having the time and even request CCTV to prove you complained.

I fully get what you are saying but I deal with the public and some can be seriously deranged and dangerous and still look for names and numbers and take pictures and video and absolutely mad things.

I ain't giving any personal details out .

j8wk2feszrnpao · 30-01-2018 11:31pm

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

He was incredibly unhelpful and rude. I deal with customers everyday in my job and would be fired if I even dared speak to a customer in such a manner. It's just unacceptable and makes the whole operation look even more unprofessional.

Sums up BE and a lot of their drivers.
But it starts at the top in any customer service profession. The drivers are like that cause they can get away with it.

namloc1980 · 30-01-2018 11:38pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Sums up BE and a lot of their drivers.
But it starts at the top in any customer service profession. The drivers are like that cause they can get away with it.

Poor customer service is a hallmark of monopolies. From the top down there is no incentive to be customer focussed. Add in a heavily unionised workforce and the customer ends up being an inconvenience on a daily basis.

magentis · 30-01-2018 11:48pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Sums up BE and a lot of their drivers.
But it starts at the top in any customer service profession. The drivers are like that cause they can get away with it.

The drivers are like that because they have been cleaned out and many don't care any more.Walk into busaras(I'm sure Parnell place will be the same)and you will find all the ticket desks closed,all the information points closed,no porters,no ancillary staff.Drivers passing through most likely on their break time being asked questions about services,one inspector expected to do everything.

It's like this because government policy and spending dictates it.

JupiterKid · 31-01-2018 4:28am

It comes from the top. The government just don’t care about proper public transport and it is grossly starved of funds and investment, just like with social housing. You see, it’s all about “the free market” at the expense of a proper level of public services.

It is all about survival of the fittest and those in society who can’t afford a car or a house on a mortgage can go hang...

whisky_galore · 31-01-2018 9:52am

JupiterKid wrote: »

It comes from the top. The government just don’t care about proper public transport and it is grossly starved of funds and investment, just like with social housing. You see, it’s all about “the free market” at the expense of a proper level of public services.

It is all about survival of the fittest and those in society who can’t afford a car or a house on a mortgage can go hang...

That's it in a nutshell.
The govt would rather you help fill their coffers by buying a nice new car and hand over wodges of cash taxing and running it.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 31-01-2018 9:55am

magentis wrote: »

The drivers are like that because they have been cleaned out and many don't care any more.

Define cleaned out? Pay and pension details.
They drive a bus. It has a degree of responsibility, but not high skill level. I worked in a shop before, minimum pay and zero benefits in the job; still treated customers with respect. The drivers are like that because of they get away with it.

snotboogie · 31-01-2018 12:22pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

It comes from the top. The government just don’t care about proper public transport and it is grossly starved of funds and investment, just like with social housing. You see, it’s all about “the free market” at the expense of a proper level of public services.

It is all about survival of the fittest and those in society who can’t afford a car or a house on a mortgage can go hang...

I would say that Bus Eireann is the exact opposite of the free market.

magentis · 31-01-2018 1:07pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Define cleaned out? Pay and pension details.
They drive a bus. It has a degree of responsibility, but not high skill level. I worked in a shop before, minimum pay and zero benefits in the job; still treated customers with respect. The drivers are like that because of they get away with it.

A degree of responsibility-no greater responsibility than being responsible for transporting people.In that drivers are often carrying over 80 people in a >€700,000 46 foot double deck coach on motorways,through towns and often on roads that are unsuitable.Plenty skill involved there,far removed from stacking shelves in a shop.

That same driver could be nearing the end of a day spread over 13 hours(excluding his commute time),he may also have done the same the 2 or 3 days before.15 hours from the time he left his own house and family to the time he got back.Not very conducive to road safety now is it?Where the RSA recently stated fatigue is a major issue on our roads.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 31-01-2018 1:27pm

magentis wrote: »

A degree of responsibility-no greater responsibility than being responsible for transporting people.In that drivers are often carrying over 80 people in a >€700,000 46 foot double deck coach on motorways,through towns and often on roads that are unsuitable.Plenty skill involved there,far removed from stacking shelves in a shop.

That same driver could be nearing the end of a day spread over 13 hours(excluding his commute time),he may also have done the same the 2 or 3 days before.15 hours from the time he left his own house and family to the time he got back.Not very conducive to road safety now is it?Where the RSA recently stated fatigue is a major issue on our roads.

So no details on pay and pension? The usual response when asked to clarify 'cleaned out'.

No greater responsibility? Give over. There is a degree of responsibility, but don't try over play it.

I mentioned 'shelf stacking' (but it also involved handling large sums of cash, transactions with vendors/customers, it was an off licence so dealing with drunk customers and ensuring we followed the law for underage drinkers; so some responsibility there) in terms of the low pay involved but still maintaining a courteous relationship with the customer; which you also avoided to address.

Cherry_Cola · 31-01-2018 1:30pm

Well they refused to let a woman on in a wheelchair initially this morning on the Kinsale bus. Had to be lifted in out of the chair. Pretty disgraceful.

SusieBlue · 31-01-2018 1:36pm

That's interesting, I actually had huge issues with the 202 this week. I normally get the 8:20am bus, and its meant to go every 10 minutes. When I arrived at the bus stop, there were already about 7/8 people there. One women told me she had been waiting since 7:50am.

One bus finally arrived at 9:50, but due to so many missed busses, it was heaving and was so full it was a safety hazard. Regardless, it didn't stop. A bus finally arrived at 9:05. I asked the driver what was going on and apparently a few drivers had called in sick so routes had to be cut, coupled with heavy traffic.

I was dead late for work, not to mention freezing from standing out in the cold. I felt even sorrier for the poor woman standing there an hour and 15 minutes.

end of the road · 31-01-2018 2:28pm

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Hi all,

Just wondering if any of ye have had other issues with the BE city services in Cork.

My route, 223 has been notoriously poor but this week really is taking the pi$$.

Yesterday, first day back to college, I rely on the once a day (7.39 am) 223 service that goes direct to CIT rather than the usual South Mall.

This service picked me up in Rochestown, late as usual, however instead of going to CIT like it's supposed to, the bus went into the city to the bus station, parked at a bay, the driver got out and barked back at us that there was a driver change.

This was nearly 9am and this bus is supposed to be in CIT at 8.35am.

Another driver got on at the bus station a few mins later, drove around the corner, parked the bus. Looked back at us all and said "what are ye all doing here lads?!" And told us to get off the bus and walk to Patrick's Street to catch another service to CIT.

His response when asked what happened; "ah we needed the bus for something else". I arrived to CIT an hour later than I was supposed to, and missed half my first lecture of my first day back.

Just unbelievable.

And it gets worse. Today, this morning, I'm waiting for the same 7.39 am service to CIT. And the bus never showed up. Nothing. I was waiting for over an hour until I finally hopped on the next bus I saw which was only going to town. Late again.

Spoke to the most obnoxious man in the inspectors office at Parnell Pl bus station this morning, who refused to give me his name and when I asked about these services he simply began to rant about lack of drivers, "operational issues" (a blanket excuse that seems to be used by both drivers and customer service) and told me that "because we're not Dublin the drivers are treated like scum".
Absolutely obnoxious and unprofessional. I contacted the services manager in Capwell Depot but have not heard back yet.

I'm just lost for words at how poor this company is. They are nearly always late, however simply not showing up and also diverting services and kicking people off the bus to walk to another service is just unforgivable and a disgrace.

Monkstown, Passage West, Rochestown and other areas all rely on this service and it is absolutely ridiculous that we have to put up with these shananigans. It's just so, so poor. This again is a once a day, 5 times a week service that us students in these areas have to rely on.

Apologies for the long post but I wanted to stress just what's actually going on here.

What are my options here, with regards to bringing it to the attention of others and government bodies if needed? Because this isn't acceptable at all.

Thank you.

you need to report this to the national transport authority. do everything else punisher5112 has suggested also. let us know how you get on if you can.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

So no details on pay and pension? The usual response when asked to clarify 'cleaned out'.

No greater responsibility? Give over. There is a degree of responsibility, but don't try over play it.

I mentioned 'shelf stacking' (but it also involved handling large sums of cash, transactions with vendors/customers, it was an off licence so dealing with drunk customers and ensuring we followed the law for underage drinkers; so some responsibility there) in terms of the low pay involved but still maintaining a courteous relationship with the customer; which you also avoided to address.

he isn't over playing it. driving a bus is a very responsible job.

Cherry_Cola wrote: »

Well they refused to let a woman on in a wheelchair initially this morning on the Kinsale bus. Had to be lifted in out of the chair. Pretty disgraceful.

agreed, that is very unfortunate for that woman. however unfortunately it's not in the job description of the driver to lift people as far as i know. maybe it should be but that's a different argument, i'm not sure how practical it would be in practice.
the bus should have a wheel chair ramp anyway and drivers should be obligated to let it up and down when required. there is no excuse for PSO busses not to have ramps in this day and age.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 31-01-2018 2:41pm

end of the road wrote: »

he isn't over playing it. driving a bus is a very responsible job.

He said "no greater responsibility than being responsible for transporting people". That's over playing it to huge degree.

Bus Eireann - seriously poor

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