[US/IRL] 5X07 - "??????" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **] Poll added!!

Good episode I thought. I guess the main thing we can take from it is the whole 'whos telling the truth' angle. Both Ben and Widmore were basically saying the same thing throughout. I don't really know what to make of it.

Thought it was a good episode, with a few flaws.
It was pretty obvious, from previous episodes, that Locks discussions with the oceanic 6 were not the ones to convince them (aside from starting Jack on his downward spiral) but they were very very underwhelming. He made little effort to convince. As mentioned by others... this "save the people left behind" is a bit weak.

Agree with LZ5by5 on the Walt comment... that was the reason for the encounter all right.

My big peeve about this episode was the Lock suicide scene. Very disappointing. I was sure it was going to be due to him realising that Richard was right, and he needed to die. Followed by an epic inner battle to actually carry out the deed.
Instead, we got a whimpering John, giving up... I thought we were rid of that insecure whiny bitch. I know you could say it's the off island John vs the on island John, but that doesn't cut it for me.

I did liked the death scene though.... Bens rage at the mention of Eloise Hawking was interesting... lends towards it been jealousy that she thinks John is special and not him. I recall someone mentioning that she may also be Bens mother, perhaps more of a possibility now. This might also clear up why he then wanted JLs body to go back to the island.... because mummy said so :pac:

The Charles vs Ben battle for righteousness continues. My take, they're both twisted evil fcks
Seriously, never mind good vs bad... I reckon they're both evil. The island, and perhaps the power it gave them, has corrupted them both. I reckon the two are just the top layer of pawns fighting it out anyway.

All in all, I thought it better than the last few weeks

What I took from Ben's actions is that he was only using Locke again for his own plans. Ben acted concerned because he needed to find out how to get back to the island. He told Locke everything that he wanted to hear, you're inportant / special etc. If Locke died, that information would have been lost forever and Ben would be stuck not knowing what to do. After Locke told him the plan ie. get all the people and go to Eloise, Ben no longer needed him.

I really enjoyed the Jack and Locke scene, especially when Locke mentioned Christian. The big thing I took from this episode was Abbadon's "I make sure people get where they're supposed to be" - ramming home the point that he made sure all the Losties were on Flight 815.

jimbling wrote: »

My big peeve about this episode was the Lock suicide scene. Very disappointing. I was sure it was going to be due to him realising that Richard was right, and he needed to die. Followed by an epic inner battle to actually carry out the deed.

I thought Terry O'Quinn's acting was fantastic, the highlight of this episode for me, but like you said I was a bit disappointed that once again he let himself be manipulated by Ben. I thought he would just for once ignore Ben and do what Richard said and kill himself. For a moment I thought Ben and Locke were going to fake Locke's suicide, maybe by putting Locke in a temporary coma like Nikki & Paulo were in, then out of nowhere Ben murders him, didn't see that coming.

I did liked the death scene though.... Bens rage at the mention of Eloise Hawking was interesting... lends towards it been jealousy that she thinks John is special and not him. I recall someone mentioning that she may also be Bens mother, perhaps more of a possibility now. This might also clear up why he then wanted JLs body to go back to the island.... because mummy said so :pac:

Sherifu wrote: »

This is exactly how I saw it too. Once Ben knew what to do after getting the O6 together he didn't need Locke.

I can't make out why he killed Locke, why didn't he leave Locke do it himself? Why plead with him, then kill him? Is it because of the mention of Eloise that Ben realised something else, jealousy maybe?

The Charles vs Ben battle for righteousness continues. My take, they're both twisted evil fcks
Seriously, never mind good vs bad... I reckon they're both evil. The island, and perhaps the power it gave them, has corrupted them both. I reckon the two are just the top layer of pawns fighting it out anyway.

All in all, I thought it better than the last few weeks

I always thought Ben was definitely one of the "good guys" but now I'm totally confused after him murdering Locke.

Sad Professor wrote: »

On second thoughts, going by the screencaps, it looks like Lapidus DID land the plane on the runway, he just went slightly off it into the trees as the plane came to a stop.

Check it out:

http://i.iimmgg.com/images/gr/d3651c14c6743e1ccb1f8feb0cff3ff1.jpg

You can just about make out the makeshift gravel runway. Very very cool. This means Ben knew back in season 3 about Flight 316 coming to the island.

Here's a shot of the runway from a deleted scene in season 3:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Runwaybirdview.jpg

Nicely spotted. From a recent podcast or DVD commentary the writers laughed about the runway as if it was something that they were just going to pretend never happened, but it looks like they worked it into the show, whether it was planned since then, who knows.

I'm thinking Ben doesn't know half as much about evrything as we've previously been led to believe. He didn't know Jin was still alive, and it seemed he was teasing information out of Locke before he killed him. He obviously didn't know at that point that getting Locke back to the island was critical to 'the plan'. He obviously rushes straight off to see Eloise, who fills him in and he begins the rounding-up process all over again. He's then surprised again to find out (from Desmond) that Eloise is Faraday's mother. Ben/Widmore - good/evil question is definitely a red herring. They're both vying for control of something they don't fully understand.

cooker3 wrote: »

Main questions answered is that Abaddon was working for Widmore. I get the sense they brought him in to kill him off cause the actor is in Fringe.

It was already confirmed that he worked for Widmore, at the end of last season, he was the one who hired Daniel, Miles etc

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I thought that conversation had a bit of forshadowing. Walt told John he had been having dreams of John in a suit being threatened by a bunch of people on the island. Now that we know Ben is there with John, I wouldn't be surprised if Ben manipulates the crash victims of 316 into thinking that John is the bad guy, thus explaining Walts dreams.

I took that dream to be a reference to the opening scene, locke dressed up on the beach surrounded by people worried about him.

pkumohideeile wrote: »

What is the deal with Walt aging so fast? He's going to end up like Robin Williams in 'Jack'.

Em, you have it backwards, its been 3 years on screen since we seen Walt. (which was only a year off screen) So he actually aging quite slow. Unlike the 100 days spent over 4 years.

purple_hatstand wrote: »

I'm thinking Ben doesn't know half as much about evrything as we've previously been led to believe. He didn't know Jin was still alive, and it seemed he was teasing information out of Locke before he killed him. He obviously didn't know at that point that getting Locke back to the island was critical to 'the plan'. He obviously rushes straight off to see Eloise, who fills him in and he begins the rounding-up process all over again. He's then surprised again to find out (from Desmond) that Eloise is Faraday's mother. Ben/Widmore - good/evil question is definitely a red herring. They're both vying for control of something they don't fully understand.

Going on that episode that seems absolutely sound logic and I really want to agree with it but what about the information Ben has known in the past; the individual files on the losteis, the communicatios center on the island, the information about Jacob, the commanding of Richard Alpert, bringnig Juliet to the Island via sub, the operation of 'smokie' to kill off the army guys last season, his little foray from the wheel through the desert (interesting that Ben wasn't killed by Widmore who is monitoring the 'exit'...Ben simply has to Know a lot of stuff..I'm wondering if there isn't some kind of time issue involved with him travelling between different time periods the way Locke recently has, perhaps Ben is only learning now what he knew in season 1, a bit out there but possible I suppose.
to know a lot of stuff

Thought it was more or less a fine episode to be honest!

The twist of Ben turning on Locke and killing him was magnificiently done.. as was the end of episode reveal.

I'm with SP on this... Ben has been (in my opinion for the past 2 seasons) essentially a "good guy". He's done bad things.. but I think with a purpose and is fighting for a good cause essentially.

One thing I did take with me from this episode is if Locke is alive on the Island and it's somewhat due to taking the place of Christian on 316, this vision we're seeing of Christian would not appear a hallucination (as Locke can be seen.. well, by the survivors of 316) but will this have an effect on either Christian or Locke leaving the Island?