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[US/IRL] 5X07 - "??????" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **] Poll added!!

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    #92
    purple_hatstand
    Registered Users Posts: 441 ✭✭purple_hatstand


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    Ben also saw visions of his mother on the island so maybe she taught him to read then. :D

    I wouldn't be surprised if that turns out to be the case. There must be flashbacks coming soon about that period of time between Ben as a child meeting Richard in the woods and Ben as an adult destroying the Dharma Initiative. An explanation of ghosts/apparitions/whispers/other strange phenomena included (and all connected to time-travel).

    The more I think about, the more I'm inclined towards the idea that this Ben we're watching at the moment is younger than the one we first encountered in season2.


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    #93
    cooker3
    Registered Users Posts: 6,646 ✭✭✭cooker3


    Kiith wrote: »
    I just thought someone couldnt remember the actual name when creating the thread.

    I felt the episode title was a spoiler and thought it would be unfair for people who watch it on Sunday to see it so I just used question marks.


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    #94
    steve 0
    Registered Users Posts: 515 ✭✭✭steve 0


    uncleoswald wrote: »
    Finally I'm wondering who the woman is who went off on the boat with the pilot, presuming Sun also went back in time?
    As am I
    uncleoswald wrote: »
    another plane load of people would crash on the island
    Don't you mean red shirts :D


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    #95
    MOH
    Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    Requiem4adream wrote: »
    He clearly murdered John in a fit of rage after hearing Eloise Hawkings name
    ...
    jimbling wrote: »
    I did liked the death scene though.... Bens rage at the mention of Eloise Hawking was interesting... lends towards it been jealousy that she thinks John is special and not him. I recall someone mentioning that she may also be Bens mother, perhaps more of a possibility now.

    I definitely took it that he saved Locke to get information from him. He even subtly prompted him to tell him how he was supposed to get back. Once he heard Hawking's name, he had what he wanted, so killed Locke. Rage had nothing to do with it.

    And we know for certain Ben's mother died and his father blamed Ben for it.
    abelard wrote: »
    I guess they're saving the actual reasons Jack, Kate etc. decided to return for future flashbacks. We really got nothing but confirmation that Locke visited them all (bar Sun).

    We got what it was that triggered Jack's meltdown - the fact that Locke had met his dead father. (Although Christian wasn't dead at the time).

    stevejazzx wrote: »
    his little foray from the wheel through the desert (interesting that Ben wasn't killed by Widmore who is monitoring the 'exit'...

    He probbly would have been - that's why he had his collapsible baton and beat the krupps out of the two blokes who came to investigate. It's also probably why Widmore took a bit longer and sent a jeepful of guys thos time, he wasn't taking any chances.
    Sad Professor wrote: »
    You see where I'm going? If Ben didn't give Hawking the letter then she must have got it off Widmore, meaning she's actually working for him. Which makes sense when you consider that they used to be on the island together and that Widmore gave Desmond her address in LA. And surely if Widmore knew about The Lamp Post he would have stormed it ages ago and taken control. So and he and Hawking must be working together.

    But in that case what the hell is Ben doing? Does he know Hawking works for Widmore? Remember his reaction to Des saying she was Faraday's mother? Was he putting two and two together? And his reaction in this ep when Locke mentions her?

    Surely with all his background info on the freighter folk, Ben should have known Hawking is Daniel's mother?

    Also, if she's working for Widmore, then why would she help Ben get back to the island?

    Don't get how Locke suddenly thinks he knows how he's alive again - hope he shares that!


    I liked the way, after all the speculation over the names John Locke and Jeremy Bentham, and what their various beliefs signified, Widmore explains it - "You parents had a sense of humour, why can't I?".


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    #96
    kingpin55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14 ✭kingpin55


    Maybe Locke and some of the losties save ben, hawkings and widmore etc some time in the past, that is why they're so desperate to get them back to the island, if they dont get them back they will cease to exist or somethin to that effect...Locke could be special because he helps the others/island in some way when he gets flashed back to a certain time where he does somethin that influences the future of the others and the island.


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    #97
    Killaqueen!!!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭Killaqueen!!!


    Hmm..Don't know what to think of that episode. Locke is one of my favourite characters so I was glad to get a Locke-centric episode, but - as has been said already - it turned out to be very underwhelming.

    We all love the return of some characters but seeing Walt was rather pointless IMO. After all the attention he got in the first series, maybe the writers are trying to satisfy us by giving him little cameos, while they're really saying "actually, Walt isn't that important anymore so just focus on Locke"

    Asides from the excrutiating scenes with the O6, I did like the bits with Abbadaon. Always loved this character (the actor's great in Fringe too) and never knew what his agenda was. So he works for Widmore and 'gets people where they're supposed to be'. So was he the reason behind everyone getting on Oceanic 815 or just the 'special' people like Locke? If he was the man behind ensuring they got on that plane, then it was Widmore behind the crash? So was Ben and the Others expecting it? Anyway, Abbadon being shot was dramatic and one of the better scenes from the episode.

    The whole Ben v Widmore thing is interesting but confusing. I'm not even going to get into Good v Evil cos I don't think it's as simple as that. With Abbadon out of the way, we're left with Ben, Widmore, Richard and Jacob as the major 'players'. I hope before the end of this series we get more light into their agendas.

    Anyway, giving this a 7/10 (shame cos it had the potential to be a 10.)


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    #98
    Killaqueen!!!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭Killaqueen!!!


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    You can just about make out the makeshift gravel runway. Very very cool. This means Ben knew back in season 3 about Flight 316 coming to the island.

    Here's a shot of the runway from a deleted scene in season 3:
    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Runwaybirdview.jpg

    How would he know about that plane back then?!

    Also, was it ever explained how Ben got off the island to get the O6 back? Was it through the 'exit' in Tunisia?

    I'm very confused with the timeline of events..


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    #99
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Killaqueen!!! wrote: »
    How would he know about that plane back then?!
    The same way Richard knew to give Locke the compass. Someone from the future tells him.
    Also, was it ever explained how Ben got off the island to get the O6 back? Was it through the 'exit' in Tunisia?
    Yeah, he turned the wheel in the season 4 finale and, like Locke, ended up in Tunisia. We saw this in 4x09 last season. However Ben arrived in the real world in late 2005, while Locke arrived in 2007 sometime.


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    #100
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    Earthhorse wrote: »
    That's a nice read alright but not entirely convincing. When he talks about suicide being a sin in various religions my eyes start rolling toward heaven.

    Why?


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    #101
    Earthhorse
    Registered Users Posts: 14,714 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    LZ5by5 wrote: »
    Why?

    Because, "faith" as a theme aside, those religions have nothing to do with the show.


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    #102
    jimbling
    Registered Users Posts: 4,053 ✭✭✭jimbling


    MOH wrote: »
    I definitely took it that he saved Locke to get information from him. He even subtly prompted him to tell him how he was supposed to get back. Once he heard Hawking's name, he had what he wanted, so killed Locke. Rage had nothing to do with it.

    lol, I know... I was just kidding around.

    I did watch it again though, and there is a definite look of surprise when he heard the name, it wasn't just the case of he had the information.... there was something about the information too.


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    #103
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    Earthhorse wrote: »
    Because, "faith" as a theme aside, those religions have nothing to do with the show.

    There are biblical references throughout the show in my humble opinion. The relationship between John and Ben at times mirrors that of Cain and Abel. Resurrection is another running them in regards to Locke and Christian. Jack's last name is Shephard; shepherds are referred to as leaders and sources of guidance throughout the Bible. For the fans who believe that Jacob is a Shephard, in the bible Jacob is the great great grandfather of Aaron.

    If you're willing to buy any of that then it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to believe that Ben couldn't let Locke commit suicide.


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    #104
    Earthhorse
    Registered Users Posts: 14,714 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    Yes, there are lots of references to the Bible dotted throughout; but Lost is filled with references to lots of things, it's difficult to read too much into any of it.

    Also, it would be quite a contentious thing for the writers to push suicide as a sin as an important plot point, even if they can hide behind religious beliefs in doing so. Just can't see them doing something like that on a show like this.


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    #105
    uncleoswald
    Registered Users Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭uncleoswald


    I don't mind references to the bible but I would hate the show to start getting ideas above its station. If the show went off in a direction that seemed to be preaching to me I'd switch off. Partly because I'd disagree with that message and partly because it would be very clunky in what is a geeky sci-fi show. More Sci-Fi less Faith/Destiny bull!


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    #106
    Woddle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,492 ✭✭✭Woddle


    Does anyone want to speculate who Ben had a fight with as he looked pretty banged up


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    #107
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    Woddle wrote: »
    Does anyone want to speculate who Ben had a fight with as he looked pretty banged up

    I'm guessing he either attempted to (or did) murder Penny, which got himself a hiding from Desmond.


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    #108
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    uncleoswald wrote: »
    I don't mind references to the bible but I would hate the show to start getting ideas above its station. If the show went off in a direction that seemed to be preaching to me I'd switch off. Partly because I'd disagree with that message and partly because it would be very clunky in what is a geeky sci-fi show. More Sci-Fi less Faith/Destiny bull!

    They have the right balance of science -v- faith. If the scales started to tip in favour of either one then I would beccome disillusioned.


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    #109
    uncleoswald
    Registered Users Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭uncleoswald


    LZ5by5 wrote: »
    I'm guessing he either attempted to (or did) murder Penny, which got himself a hiding from Desmond.

    I agree. Its certainly seems they want us to think that with the "keeping a promise" line and the fact he was by the docks. Although if Ben had killed Penny he would have also have had to kill Desmond as I don't think Des would have let him get away alive. But thats seems too obvious so its probably something else entirely.

    They have the right balance of science -v- faith. If the scales started to tip in favour of either one then I would beccome disillusioned.

    I disagree. When ever they try to explain something away with "Er, Its what the island wanted you have to have Faith" I roll my eyes. What a cop-out! Although in saying that the "science" bit with giant the pendulum and some "calculations" was also groan inducing.


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    #110
    Old_-_School
    Registered Users Posts: 459 ✭✭Old_-_School


    Why did Ben go to such trouble to make Locke's death look like a suicide seeing that it'll be quite obvious to any medical person that Locke died from being strangled from behind rather rather than from hanging himself?


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