[US/IRL] 5X07 - "??????" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **] Poll added!!

MisterAnarchy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

On a related point to this, where does Claire fit in?

Anyone got any thoughts?

Does anyone really care ?
The less of Claire and her damn baby the better.:D

Excellent episode this week after the utter shambles last week.
John Locke is the best character on the show,I knew they couldnt kill him off.

cooker3

It can never be said enough how good Michael Emerson and Terry O'Quinn are especially in the same scene.
The scene in the motel was fantastic.

oleras

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I nabbed the following from Dark UFO, it's a great read and very convincing;



http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/




The only thing I would have reservations about is Ben saying along the lines of "I'll miss you John" which leads me to believe he may not have been aware that John would come back to life.

But was it not Richard who planted the initial seed in John's head about having to "die" to save the island, and when John met Christian he asked him this and Christian mentioned sacrafice, i.e. suicide as opposed to being murdered.

Hugh_C

Sad Professor wrote: »

The button. It goes back to that old theory we had that the button-pushing somehow cloaked the island.

I know this is Lost we're debating here but why in the name of all things rational would this not have been automated? I mean the island has some pretty sophisticated technology so why couldn't someone have even cobbled together a clockwork automator? Jeeze even I could do that ...



Back to this episode - brilliant! Locke has always been my favourite character despite his flaws, either the gelded off-island Locke or the empowered on-island Locke, a testament to Terry O'Quinn's acting. My guess is production shot the motel scene with a couple of variations - with JL topping himself and with Ben killing him. Maybe they even had Whimpering Jack do the job ... or Sun.

It'll be interesting to see how Locke-incarnate and Ben's relationship develops on-island. Roll on next week.


HC

uncleoswald

I really hope they don't try and explain the appearances of Jacks Dad in the 1st season by the same reincarnation process that has happened to Locke. Jacks dad appeared as a ghostly apparition who could disappear in the blink of an eye, Locke doesn't seem to have such powers, yet....

Widmore showed Locke a photo of Sayid thousands of miles away and when Locke got there Sayid was still sitting in the exact same place working on the same bit of roof. Bloody cowboy builders...

I think Ben simply killed Locke as once he found out the name of the person he needed to contact to get back to the island he no longer needed him. And why say goodbye if he knew he'd come back to life?

Finally I'm wondering who the woman is who went off on the boat with the pilot, presuming Sun also went back in time?

Unlike most people here I liked last weeks episode but hated this one, worst in some time. It added very little new, gave very unconvincing answers to some of the questions and the reunions were incredibly underwhelming and anti-climatic(the scene with Walt was painful.) Would the others not have been bursting with questions for Locke? And if someone had told me a few seasons ago that another plane load of people would crash on the island I would have presumed it would be treated with a whole lot of importance. But I seem more interested in it the even the bloody people who were in the plane! I'm afraid Lost has lost all sense of believable character reactions in a rush to get to a finish line.

gustavo

I always enjoy any Locke-centric episode as he is my favourite character , I like the way I always know where I stand with him ,there's no ulterior motives or disingenuity(SP)

Am I right in thinking that "when" Locke is is different to the O6 who we saw land on the island in the last episode?

I hope Locke gives Ben a good ass kicking now!

As was said they are two wonderful actors.

I think Matthew Fox has been very good too in recent weeks , Just suffers for the fact that Jack is a bit of a whiny asshole.

Will that be it for Walt ? Seemed a bit of a pointless scene except I suppose he is predicting the fact that there will be conflict between Locke and the other guys that come out of the crash

I would be more inclined to believe Widmore over Ben now as to who the "good guys" are

purple_hatstand

I think Ben is younger in his own timeline in this off-island 'present' we're watching now than when we first saw him in season2. This would explain the stuff he knew then and doen't know now.

Ressurection, reincarnation and immortality are concepts we usually associate with religion but time-travel could/would give similar results. Potentially, he's been travelling backwards and forwards in time forever. Remember Bill Murray's line in 'Groundhog Day'? - "Maybe God isn't omnipotent - he's just been around so long, he knows everything."

purple_hatstand

Check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma

and:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_of_dharma

very interesting.

me-skywalker

The Four Toe'ld Statue - Definitly John

He at some stage travels back to the origin of the island or decades or centuries past and the locals would be in wonder or awe of this god like man who has just appeared and only has 4toes so they create a statue in rememberance of him.

How come Ben and Locke and Lapidus for that matter didnt 'flash' with hurley, jack and kate?
The plane continues on and crash lands on the other island in current time(as the station is run down and closed) yet the other 3(sayid?)flash off the plane onto the other island back in Dharma time with Jin there...

Gerard.C

Does Locke have 4 toes or am I missing something?

uncleoswald

me-skywalker wrote: »

The Four Toe'ld Statue - Definitly John

He at some stage travels back to the origin of the island or decades or centuries past and the locals would be in wonder or awe of this god like man who has just appeared and only has 4toes so they create a statue in rememberance of him.

I may have missed something (wouldn't be the frist time) but do we know for sure that Locke only has four toes or was it just that it looked like that (probably on purpose) with the cast on his foot? Also I don't think they would give us a massive hint like that and ruin a huge reveal for themselves.

Personally I'd be more likely to worship Hurley... That would take a whole lot of concrete though.

me-skywalker

uncleoswald wrote: »

I may have missed something (wouldn't be the frist time) but do we know for sure that Locke only has four toes or was it just that it looked like that (probably on purpose) with the cast on his foot? Also I don't think they would give us a massive hint like that and ruin a huge reveal for themselves.

Personally I'd be more likely to worship Hurley... That would take a whole lot of concrete though.

well we dont know for sure! it wouldnt really ruin a huge reveal as it hasnt made any suggestion to it otherwise more just the writes throwing in a red herring for ppl to get talking about.
but with the whole locke time travel, being special, leader, island needs him thing i wouldnt be too surprised...

but what is strange is if you were gonna worship someone whoudlnt you do a full statue of them... like... why just do one of their leg and foot??

me-skywalker

If Widmore knew where hawking was, im assuming he knew about the lampost, and thats how the freighter that he hired to search for the island and get them to 'remove' ben as he said himself, found the island.

If there is a war coming who is it between??! and why doesnt he go back?!? and assume leadership as he said he was the leader before...?! more leads to more questions...

i think that little convo between him and locke was the best piece of writing this season. in relation to developing the broad sense of whats coming but not revealing a damn thing...

uncleoswald

me-skywalker wrote: »

but what is strange is if you were gonna worship someone whoudlnt you do a full statue of them... like... why just do one of their leg and foot??

Well the simple answer would be that whoever was building it was killed before they completed the rest or it was destroyed.

But it would be be funny if due to some time/space anomaly Lockes leg jumped to one place and the rest of him to another. He does seem to have enormous bad luck with his legs, how often is it now that something bad has happened to them? I remember at least three serious injuries. So on second thoughts the statue may have signifigance with Locke.

Daroxtar

jimbling wrote: »

. I recall someone mentioning that she may also be Bens mother, perhaps more of a possibility now. This might also clear up why he then wanted JLs body to go back to the island.... because mummy said so :pac:

I thought Bens father said that his mother died giving birth to him, thats why he got drunk on the day of his birthday.

Niall0

Daroxtar wrote: »

I thought Bens father said that his mother died giving birth to him, thats why he got drunk on the day of his birthday.

Maybe she acted like a mother to him on the island, kind of like ben did to alexandra?

uncleoswald

We actually saw Bens mother die during child birth.

anotherlostie

I find it strange that there has been significantly less discussion (as gauged by post count) about this episode than the episodes that preceeded it? Is it because it was almost universally acclaimed, and so there is less divisiveness between posters when it comes to talking about it?

Whats the significance of the title?

Kiith

Deleted User wrote: »

Whats the significance of the title?

I just thought someone couldnt remember the actual name when creating the thread.

purple_hatstand

Deleted User wrote: »

Whats the significance of the title?

"The Life And Death Of Jeremy Bentham" is the title.

In real life, Jeremy Bentham was a radical philosopher and political thinker concerned with legal and social reform in 19th century England.

me-skywalker

anotherlostie wrote: »

I find it strange that there has been significantly less discussion (as gauged by post count) about this episode than the episodes that preceeded it? Is it because it was almost universally acclaimed, and so there is less divisiveness between posters when it comes to talking about it?

i dont really think it was because i was that good i just think it was because it was so ordinary!! i personally just think it was a so so episode, not great but not bad, nothing new thrown up except the widmore locke scene but the rest could have been done in 10mins...

Kiith wrote: »

I just thought someone couldnt remember the actual name when creating the thread.

just the title could be conceived as a spoiler so it wasnt showed!

Earthhorse

LZ5by5 wrote: »

How did Ben get to point A (genuine concern for John) to point B (choking John in a fit of rage)?

He was never at point A; that's the camp I'm in anyway.

Sad Professor wrote: »

Like a certain character in the Harry Potter series...

USE SPOILERS DAMNIT! :mad::(:mad:

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I nabbed the following from Dark UFO, it's a great read and very convincing;

The only thing I would have reservations about is Ben saying along the lines of "I'll miss you John" which leads me to believe he may not have been aware that John would come back to life.

That's a nice read alright but not entirely convincing. When he talks about suicide being a sin in various religions my eyes start rolling toward heaven.

stevejazzx wrote: »

How does the pendulum work exactly?

Didn't you see last week's episode? A number of "scientists" wrote some "equations". Pretty obvious when you think about it.

uncleoswald wrote: »

Widmore showed Locke a photo of Sayid thousands of miles away and when Locke got there Sayid was still sitting in the exact same place working on the same bit of roof. Bloody cowboy builders...

Fucking lol!

Not a great episode and certainly not the plot explainer I thought it might be (still don't know why most of the O6 had their minds changed).

How many times has Locke woken up in a hospital bed at this stage? Give it a rest already.

Never been a Jack-hater but damnit if beard-Jack isn't a kick ass character. He should seriously consider growing a beard now he's back on the island and start kicking everybody's ass.

Gerard.C

purple_hatstand wrote: »

"The Life And Death Of Jeremy Bentham" is the title.

In real life, Jeremy Bentham was a radical philosopher and political thinker concerned with legal and social reform in 19th century England.

John Locke was a philosopher too I think, wasnt he?. Shows how much attention I pay in my course....

Sad Professor

anotherlostie wrote: »

I find it strange that there has been significantly less discussion (as gauged by post count) about this episode than the episodes that preceeded it? Is it because it was almost universally acclaimed, and so there is less divisiveness between posters when it comes to talking about it?

It's still only Tuesday. I think 9 pages is the average length of the episode threads this season. Last week's thread sort of stopped at page 9 anyway and degenerated into a debate on the right to say the episode sucked.

Daroxtar wrote:

I thought Bens father said that his mother died giving birth to him, thats why he got drunk on the day of his birthday.

Yeah, Ben's dad was a nice fellow who took his 8 month pregnant wife mountain hiking. Then when she went into labour and died, he naturally blamed Ben for being born. No wonder the guy is so screwed up!

Ben also saw visions of his mother on the island so maybe she taught him to read then.

uncleoswald

Earthhorse wrote: »

Never been a Jack-hater but damnit if beard-Jack isn't a kick ass character. He should seriously consider growing a beard now he's back on the island and start kicking everybody's ass.

I agree, I look forward to the balance of power been swung away from Locke and back to Jack at some stage, who lets face it if it was the real world would be right 100% of the time and Locke would just be a strange and slightly creepy loon.

Earthhorse

I've a funny feeling the writers don't see it that way. There has to be a pay off for Locke at some point after everything he's gone through. But I'd happy if island Jack became a more stable beard Jack who went around kicking people's asses. Even a little.

uncleoswald

Well they certainly have made it clear that we are meant to think that Locke is special and it will probably be that way but there is a while to go yet so I can't see the next season and a half just been an endless trudge towards Locke fulfilling his destiny. There has to be SOME surprises and one or two tables may be turned. The problem I have had with Locke when he is in prophet mode is that he has only ever seen the other survivors as tools so he can fulfil that destiny and he doesn't really care if they live or die(i.e. Boone.) So I'm still holding out that he receives at least a humbling.

DeadParrot

Anyone tried this??

Damon and Carlton (producers of the show) listed 10 episodes to revisit before watching Season 5. Makes for some interesting watching given what we now know .
Episodes as follows:

From Damon and Carlton.

Season 1

Walkabout


White Rabbit

Deus Ex Machina


Season 2

The 23rd Psalm

Live together die alone


Season 3

Flashes before your eyes

The man behind the curtain

Season 4


The Constant

The shape of things to come

There's no place like home.

purple_hatstand

Gerard.C wrote: »

John Locke was a philosopher too I think, wasnt he?. Shows how much attention I pay in my course....

John Locke was also a philosopher in 17thC England - one of the foremost Enlightenment thinkers and regarded as being an influence on the American Declaration of Independence and modern liberalism.