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Good article detailing Dublin's unfair funding advantage

  • 11-02-2019 3:27pm
    #1
    gaffer91
    Registered Users Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭


    AAnother good article detailing Dublin's financial advantages and the inherent unfairness of them.

    The author is Ewan MacKenna once again- I'm aware people don't like him because he is of one of the few voices in the sports media who consistently calls out the Dubs and their unfair advantages (and because he can be quite combative generally), but please actually address the points he makes in the article rather than attacking his other work.

    This funding imbalance has to be addressed- if Dublin continue to dominate, people will lose interest in Gaelic Football. The decline has probably already started- the attendance decline noted last week is ominous.


«13456

Comments

  • #2
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    Every intercounty team should have a budget ceiling.

    Dublin's players have a huge backroom team and access to a whole team of professionals, dieticians, sports scientists, etc and lots of weekends away

    23 as of two years ago https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/dublin-backroom-team-picture-98181
    . Jim Gavin (manager): Since taking over in 2012, the former Under-21 manager has won three All-Irelands, four Leinster titles and four Allianz Leagues.

    2. Brian Doyle (sports administrator): Works with head of high performance Bryan Cullen (not pictured).

    3. Ray Boyne (head of performance analysis): On and off, the Ulster Bank employee has been crunching numbers for Dublin teams since 2003.

    4. Mick Deegan (selector): Gavin's right-hand man since 2012, he is the manager's voice on the sideline - passing instructions to the players.

    5. Jonathan Courtney (backroom team): The former Sarsfields (Kildare) manager is a former colleague of Gavin's in the defence forces.

    6. Niall Barry (physio): The chartered physiotherapist has also worked with Leinster Rugby, Cricket Ireland and Clontarf Rugby.

    7. Chris Farrell (cameraman): Involved with Gavin's All-Ireland winning Under-21s in 2012, he shoots match footage for analysis.

    8. Tony Boylan (logistics): Looks after the transport of all kit and equipment.

    9. Davy Byrne (goalkeeping coach): The former Dublin player has the happy task of honing the skills of Stephen Cluxton - who already held the number 1 shirt when Byrne retired in 2002.

    10. James Cullen (physio): Working with the Dublin footballers since 2007, he also treats the Irish rugby team having previously been with Leinster for eight years.

    11. Shane O'Hanlon (selector): The St Vincent's man is with Gavin since the Under-21 days and has been described by the manager as his 'operations manager'.

    12. Jason Sherlock (forwards coach): The former 'Darling of the Hill' was a team-mate of Gavin's and has been working with the attackers for the past two years.

    13. Declan Darcy (selector): Famously captained Leitrim to a Connacht title in 1994 before returning to his native Dublin. He and Deegan work mostly with the defenders in training.

    14. Jim Gavin senior (backroom team): Provider of fatherly advice to the manager.

    15. Bernard Dunne (lifestyle coach): Involved since 2013, the former WBA super bantamweight champion has described his role as “helping Jim in any way I can”.

    16. David Boylan (logistics): A son of Tony, he assists with the transport of Dublin's matchday equipment.

    17. Daniel Davey (nutritionist): Like other members of the backroom team, Davey also works with Leinster Rugby. The former Sligo footballer tells them what to eat and when to eat.

    18. Anne-Marie Kennedy (yoga teacher): Involved since 2013, Kennedy helps the players with breathing techniques and their mobility.

    19. Mick Seavers (Dublin county board vice-chairman): The Erin's Isle man was elected in 2015.

    20. Kieran O'Reilly (physio): Having previously worked with rugby and soccer professionals, O'Reilly is currently also involved with the Irish cricket team.

    21. Frank Roebuck (stats): A clubmate of Gavin's at Round Towers, he assists Boyne in analysing the game data gathered.

    22. Seamus McCormack (media manager): The former Erin's Isle footballer brings his Air Corps background to bare as he helps control the huge interest in Gavin and his team.

    23. Ciaran O'Malley (doctor): Looks after the matchday medical needs of the squad

    Very few counties can compete with that and Kerry and Mayo spend around 1million a year most of which is self funded.

    Cap the spend at €500,000 per team and it's an even playing field.

    Kerry have selectors, Donie Buckley strength and conditioning, a team doctor and I dont know what else they have but don't think it's anywhere near that.


  • #3
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    Mr. Incognito wrote: »

    Cap the spend at €500,000 per team and it's an even playing field.


    So there’s a limit to spending irrespective of how far you go in the championship, whether you are knocked out in the first round of the qualifiers in June or are still involved in maybe an All Ireland final replay in September? Not sure you’ve thought through the full implications of such a blunt instrument.


  • #4
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    "Break that down and in terms of games development funding, between 2007 and 2018, Dublin received nearly €18m. As a sample of the rest, second was Cork with €1.43m, Kildare and Meath got just over €1m, Kerry €928,481, Mayo were at €718,780, while Tyrone got a relatively measly €679,216." :eek:

    Is this true? Looking at that article, Dublin going for 5 in a row is easily explained!


  • #5
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,269 ✭✭✭threeball


    Its truly sad that a purely profit driven administrating body like the NFL have a better grasp of fairness and creating equality than an amateur organisation like the GAA. The draft, salary cap and other measures are all in place to ensure that no franchise ends up with advantages like Dublin thereby damaging the brand and by extension the game.

    The GAA on the other hand have dispensed with any sort of semblance of equality in pursuit of short term profit at the expense of every other Irish person and at the expense of the games themselves.


  • #6
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Are you or Egon claiming that all of those named are paid?

    If so what are the counties who spent more money on their senior county football team doing?

    http://mwr.ie/index.php/sport/10343-mayo-s-spending-on-their-inter-county-teams-in-2016-was-the-highest-in-the-country

    In 2015 Dublin, Cork, Tipp, Kerry, Limerick and Galway had largest overall spending within range of 1.5 million for Dublin down to 1 million for Kerry.
    Armagh spent 900,000 on their inter county footballers!


    Dublin, Cork, Tipp and Galway had competitive inter county teams in both sports and at all grades. There is really nothing sinister about it.


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  • #7
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,819 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    All that money spent and Roscommon sitting with more points on the board.
    Money doesn't buy success.


  • #8
    Jeju
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 619 ✭✭✭Jeju


    Fann Linn wrote:
    All that money spent and Roscommon sitting with more points on the board. Money doesn't buy success.


    Yea but Roscommons holidays was a trip to Castlebar two weeks ago, Dublin had just jetted back from their winter sun break


  • #9
    shockframe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭shockframe


    The top 5 sides in both Football and Hurling lack for nothing wrt finances.

    Dublin are out on their own when it comes to winning but not when it comes to spending.


  • #10
    Gael85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭Gael85


    Jeju wrote: »
    Yea but Roscommons holidays was a trip to Castlebar two weeks ago, Dublin had just jetted back from their winter sun break

    Was wondering where Conor Cox got that tan from 😂😂


  • #11
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Jeju wrote: »
    Yea but Roscommons holidays was a trip to Castlebar two weeks ago, Dublin had just jetted back from their winter sun break

    Every All Ireland winning team for at least the last ten years has rightly gotten a holiday out of it. Least any of them deserve.

    McKenna has been sniffing about for years in his hatred of Dublin hoping to come up with some tabloid sensation but like a dog to his own vomit is forced to regurgitate the same old stuff month after month.


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  • #12
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Are you or Egon claiming that all of those named are paid?

    If so what are the counties who spent more money on their senior county football team doing?

    http://mwr.ie/index.php/sport/10343-mayo-s-spending-on-their-inter-county-teams-in-2016-was-the-highest-in-the-country

    In 2015 Dublin, Cork, Tipp, Kerry, Limerick and Galway had largest overall spending within range of 1.5 million for Dublin down to 1 million for Kerry.
    Armagh spent 900,000 on their inter county footballers!


    Dublin, Cork, Tipp and Galway had competitive inter county teams in both sports and at all grades. There is really nothing sinister about it.

    How are Dublin spending so much when they don't have players that have to travel?


  • #13
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    shockframe wrote: »
    The top 5 sides in both Football and Hurling lack for nothing wrt finances.

    Dublin are out on their own when it comes to winning but not when it comes to spending.

    The article says that Dublin spent 18 million while the next best got 1 million. That's out on its own isn't it?


  • #14
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Perifect wrote: »
    How are Dublin spending so much when they don't have players that have to travel?

    Our minor hurlers do have a teleporter, that is true ….


  • #15
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Our minor hurlers do have a teleporter, that is true ….

    Are they all based in Dublin or around the country?


  • #16
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 24,006 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    First off, any talk of a cap/budget or whatever isn't feasible, a former Clare Manager got funding directly from the "Supporters Club" which was chaired by a family member and who's accounts were accounted for by the county boar.

    When Kilkenny were going for a 5 in a row in hurling there wasn't talk about cutting their funding, it's up to the other teams to beat them, ultimately you can only have a max of 15 players on the pitch at any time, it's up to the opposition to beat them, if it was all down to funding then America would be the best rugby/soccer team in the world.


  • #17
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Perifect wrote: »
    The article says that Dublin spent 18 million while the next best got 1 million. That's out on its own isn't it?

    Cork spent more in one fkn year, as in one of links I posted above, than McKenna claims they received in over ten years!

    What sort of mumbo jumbo maths is this?


  • #18
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Clareman wrote: »
    First off, any talk of a cap/budget or whatever isn't feasible, a former Clare Manager got funding directly from the "Supporters Club" which was chaired by a family member and who's accounts were accounted for by the county boar.

    When Kilkenny were going for a 5 in a row in hurling there wasn't talk about cutting their funding, it's up to the other teams to beat them, ultimately you can only have a max of 15 players on the pitch at any time, it's up to the opposition to beat them, if it was all down to funding then America would be the best rugby/soccer team in the world.

    But hang on, what is the money being spent on? Some poster said that Dublin are spending 1.5 million on their senior footballers. Is that on top of the 18 million? What are they doing with all that money?


  • #19
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Perifect wrote: »
    Are they all based in Dublin or around the country?

    You've never seen Star Trek then :)

    Teleporting eliminates all distances.

    At the risk of being serious, however, I would imagine that all of the Dublin minor hurlers like all minor hurlers everywhere more than likely live in the county.


  • #20
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Cork spent more in one fkn year, as in one of links I posted above, than McKenna claims they received in over ten years!

    What sort of mumbo jumbo maths is this?

    Then you have to add Dublin spending 1.5 million more too? They do that every year?


  • #21
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    You've never seen Star Trek then :)

    Teleporting eliminates all distances.

    At the risk of being serious, however, I would imagine that all of the Dublin minor hurlers like all minor hurlers everywhere more than likely live in the county.

    I just don't get it. Where is all the money coming from? How is this happening?


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  • #22
    DoctaDee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,593 ✭✭✭DoctaDee


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    ....


    Dublin, Cork, Tipp and Galway had competitive inter county teams in both sports and at all grades. There is really nothing sinister about it.

    Exactly.. if anyone would like a little homework have a look and see the size of Michael Ryan's backroom with Tipp or Ephie Fitzgerald with Cork ladies.

    if your only agenda is to point the finger solely in Dublin's direction and believe the funding for all other inter county teams come from church collections after Sunday mass carry on regardless .. because today was not a school day for you..


  • #23
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 24,006 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Perifect wrote: »
    But hang on, what is the money being spent on? Some poster said that Dublin are spending 1.5 million on their senior footballers. Is that on top of the 18 million? What are they doing with all that money?

    I've no idea what the breakdown of the money is for, they could be gold plating Parnell Park for all I care, ultimately no matter how much money they have it's all about getting their squad of players ready to win matches which every other county have to do as well. Another point is that all Dublin's players are accounted for in regards to employment/student not every county can say that, looking at Lee Chin admitting to living off sponsorships.


  • #24
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    DoctaDee wrote: »
    Exactly.. if anyone would like a little homework have a look and see the size of Michael Ryan's backroom with Tipp or Ephie Fitzgerald with Cork ladies.

    if your only agenda is to point the finger solely in Dublin's direction and believe the funding for all other inter county teams come from church collections after Sunday mass carry on regardless .. because today was not a school day for you..

    The article says 18 million for Dublin and 1 million for the next best Cork. Is that true?


  • #25
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 24,006 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Clare, Dublin, Cork, Tipp and Galway had competitive inter county teams in both sports and at all grades. There is really nothing sinister about it.

    FYP


  • #26
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Clareman wrote: »
    I've no idea what the breakdown of the money is for, they could be gold plating Parnell Park for all I care, ultimately no matter how much money they have it's all about getting their squad of players ready to win matches which every other county have to do as well. Another point is that all Dublin's players are accounted for in regards to employment/student not every county can say that, looking at Lee Chin admitting to living off sponsorships.

    Well where is the money coming from? It's 18 million like. Why don't you care where it's going?


  • #27
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Perifect wrote: »
    Then you have to add Dublin spending 1.5 million more too? They do that every year?

    You started off by claiming that Dublin footballers are successful because they spend 18,000,000 on the senior team. In fact they spent less than others in several years and not much more than the leading counties in other years.

    Now, you are implying that they are using 18,000,000 for some sinister other purpose? What is it?

    Perhaps that obsessive Egon will tell us as he has been promising to do for years, but never quite gotten around to it. At least the other one trick pony Kimmage who wrote one decent article in the last century about the cess pool that is cycling had the good grace to give up when he couldn't find any slight hint of the corruption, drug taking, bribery and theft that goes on in his own and other sports.


  • #28
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    You started off by claiming that Dublin footballers are successful because they spend 18,000,000 on the senior team. In fact they spent less than others in several years and not much more than the leading counties in other years.

    Now, you are implying that they are using 18,000,000 for some sinister other purpose? What is it?

    Perhaps that obsessive Egon will tell us as he has been promising to do for years, but never quite gotten around to it. At least the other one trick pony Kimmage who wrote one decent article in the last century about the cess pool that is cycling had the good grace to give up when he couldn't find any slight hint of the corruption, drug taking, bribery and theft that goes on in his own and other sports.

    No I didn't. I'm asking where did the money come from and what it's spent on! What are they doing with the 18 million? I'm not implying anything. Who is Egon?


  • #29
    DoctaDee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,593 ✭✭✭DoctaDee


    Perifect wrote: »
    The article says 18 million for Dublin and 1 million for the next best Cork. Is that true?

    No,.. there's a convenience when dealing with figures in that you can make them bend to your particular pov. What gets lost or at the very least overlooked in these spreadsheet forensics is the
    additional money given to every other county (bar Dublin) from their provincial councils for games development.

    You can also see here that some people conflate the GD grant from central council as a payment to fund the senior set ups.. it's not, you'd have to look deeper into the finances and check under the team expenses for that figure.. it makes for a different conversation on where the unspoken money goes


  • #30
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 24,006 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Perifect wrote: »
    Well where is the money coming from? It's 18 million like. Why don't you care where it's going?

    Let's get some maths to look at the numbers, assuming the numbers are right and are from this widely distributed list
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=472807&stc=1&d=1549923438
    taking into account population it could be argued that Dublin are underfunded compared to other counties

    County Population Budget Per Person
    Dublin 2,137,639 €17,916,477.00 €8.38
    Antrim 618,108 €1,059,400.00 €1.71
    Cork 542,196 €1,434,287.00 €2.65
    Down 531,665 €699,521.00 €1.32
    Galway 258,552 €968,539.00 €3.75
    Derry 247,132 €1,344,075.00 €5.44
    Kildare 222,130 €1,090,427.00 €4.91
    Limerick 195,175 €930,337.00 €4.77
    Meath 194,942 €1,190,047.00 €6.10
    Tyrone 179,000 €679,216.00 €3.79
    Armagh 174,792 €816,655.00 €4.67
    Tipperary 160,441 €965,082.00 €6.02
    Donegal 158,755 €704,938.00 €4.44
    Wexford 149,605 €1,004,996.00 €6.72
    Kerry 147,554 €98,481.00 €0.67
    Wicklow 142,332 €1,006,294.00 €7.07
    Mayo 130,425 €718,780.00 €5.51
    Louth 128,375 €948,007.00 €7.38
    Clare 118,817 €838,518.00 €7.06
    Waterford 116,401 €984,557.00 €8.46
    Kilkenny 99,118 €803,582.00 €8.11
    Westmeath 88,770 €871,420.00 €9.82
    Laois 84,732 €1,074,486.00 €12.68
    Offaly 78,003 €1,004,426.00 €12.88
    Cavan 76,092 €750,425.00 €9.86
    Sligo 65,357 €720,140.00 €11.02
    Roscommon 64,436 €771,559.00 €11.97
    Fermanagh 61,170 €634,173.00 €10.37
    Monaghan 61,273 €669,957.00 €10.93
    Carlow 56,875 €856,897.00 €15.07
    Longford 40,810 €650,484.00 €15.94
    Leitrim 31,972 €688,521.00 €21.54


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  • #31
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    DoctaDee wrote: »
    No,.. there's a convenience when dealing with figures in that you can make them bend to your particular pov. What gets lost or at the very least overlooked in these spreadsheet forensics is the
    additional money given to every other county (bar Dublin) from their provincial councils for games development.

    You can also see here that some people conflate the GD grant from central council as a payment to fund the senior set ups.. it's not, you'd have to look deeper into the finances and check under the team expenses for that figure.. it makes for a different conversation on where the unspoken money goes

    What does the money get spent on? Does the provincial council money even it up? It'd want to be a lot!


  • #32
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 24,006 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    DoctaDee wrote: »
    No,.. there's a convenience when dealing with figures in that you can make them bend to your particular pov. What gets lost or at the very least overlooked in these spreadsheet forensics is the
    additional money given to every other county (bar Dublin) from their provincial councils for games development.

    You can also see here that some people conflate the GD grant from central council as a payment to fund the senior set ups.. it's not, you'd have to look deeper into the finances and check under the team expenses for that figure.. it makes for a different conversation on where the unspoken money goes

    Other things to remember is some sponsors pay for stuff directly (e.g. Supermacs and Galway) and other counties have supporters clubs to pay for stuff,


  • #33
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Clareman wrote: »
    Let's get some maths to look at the numbers, assuming the numbers are right and are from this widely distributed list
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=472807&stc=1&d=1549923438
    taking into account population it could be argued that Dublin are underfunded compared to other counties

    County Population Budget Per Person
    Dublin 2,137,639 €17,916,477.00 €8.38
    Antrim 618,108 €1,059,400.00 €1.71
    Cork 542,196 €1,434,287.00 €2.65
    Down 531,665 €699,521.00 €1.32
    Galway 258,552 €968,539.00 €3.75
    Derry 247,132 €1,344,075.00 €5.44
    Kildare 222,130 €1,090,427.00 €4.91
    Limerick 195,175 €930,337.00 €4.77
    Meath 194,942 €1,190,047.00 €6.10
    Tyrone 179,000 €679,216.00 €3.79
    Armagh 174,792 €816,655.00 €4.67
    Tipperary 160,441 €965,082.00 €6.02
    Donegal 158,755 €704,938.00 €4.44
    Wexford 149,605 €1,004,996.00 €6.72
    Kerry 147,554 €98,481.00 €0.67
    Wicklow 142,332 €1,006,294.00 €7.07
    Mayo 130,425 €718,780.00 €5.51
    Louth 128,375 €948,007.00 €7.38
    Clare 118,817 €838,518.00 €7.06
    Waterford 116,401 €984,557.00 €8.46
    Kilkenny 99,118 €803,582.00 €8.11
    Westmeath 88,770 €871,420.00 €9.82
    Laois 84,732 €1,074,486.00 €12.68
    Offaly 78,003 €1,004,426.00 €12.88
    Cavan 76,092 €750,425.00 €9.86
    Sligo 65,357 €720,140.00 €11.02
    Roscommon 64,436 €771,559.00 €11.97
    Fermanagh 61,170 €634,173.00 €10.37
    Monaghan 61,273 €669,957.00 €10.93
    Carlow 56,875 €856,897.00 €15.07
    Longford 40,810 €650,484.00 €15.94
    Leitrim 31,972 €688,521.00 €21.54

    Wow!!! I thought they were getting more because of their population but look at Antrim and Cork! Kerry are only getting €0.67. And how many of Dublin's population play GAA? Also, where is that 2,137,639 coming from? That is way above the population of Dublin.


  • #34
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Clareman wrote: »
    Other things to remember is some sponsors pay for stuff directly (e.g. Supermacs and Galway) and other counties have supporters clubs to pay for stuff,

    Don't Dublin have sponsors? How much money do they give?


  • #35
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 24,006 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Perifect wrote: »
    Wow!!! I thought they were getting more because of their population but look at Antrim and Cork! Kerry are only getting €0.67. And how many of Dublin's population play GAA? Also, where is that 2,137,639 coming from? That is way above the population of Dublin.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_counties_by_population

    I added Dublin, Fingal, South Dublin and Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown.

    I would say the playing population of Dublin is comparable with other counties, maybe even higher as they are a dual county.


  • #36
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Clareman wrote: »
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_counties_by_population

    I added Dublin, Fingal, South Dublin and Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown.

    I would say the playing population of Dublin is comparable with other counties, maybe even higher as they are a dual county.

    Did you make that table? The population of Dublin is 1,345,402. If their playing population is comparable with other counties, why are they getting 18 times more money?


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  • #37
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 24,006 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Perifect wrote: »
    Did you make that table? The population of Dublin is 1,345,402. If their playing population is comparable with other counties, why are they getting 18 times more money?

    I made it by getting the populations from wikipedia and the figures from that image.

    Lies, damn lies and statistics.


  • #38
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    17,916,477/1,345,402 = €13.31 per person.


  • #39
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Clareman wrote: »
    I made it by getting the populations from wikipedia and the figures from that image.

    Lies, damn lies and statistics.

    Well the population is the 1.345 million number. I don't know why the others are listed there.


  • #40
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 24,006 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Perifect wrote: »
    Well the population is the 1.345 million number. I don't know why the others are listed there.

    Fair enough, adjusted table below

    County Population Budget Per Person
    Dublin 1,345,402 €17,916,477.00 €13.32
    Antrim 618,108 €1,059,400.00 €1.71
    Cork 542,196 €1,434,287.00 €2.65
    Down 531,665 €699,521.00 €1.32
    Galway 258,552 €968,539.00 €3.75
    Londonderry 247,132 €1,344,075.00 €5.44
    Kildare 222,130 €1,090,427.00 €4.91
    Limerick 195,175 €930,337.00 €4.77
    Meath 194,942 €1,190,047.00 €6.10
    Tyrone 179,000 €679,216.00 €3.79
    Armagh 174,792 €816,655.00 €4.67
    Tipperary 160,441 €965,082.00 €6.02
    Donegal 158,755 €704,938.00 €4.44
    Wexford 149,605 €1,004,996.00 €6.72
    Kerry 147,554 €98,481.00 €0.67
    Wicklow 142,332 €1,006,294.00 €7.07
    Mayo 130,425 €718,780.00 €5.51
    Louth 128,375 €948,007.00 €7.38
    Clare 118,817 €838,518.00 €7.06
    Waterford 116,401 €984,557.00 €8.46
    Kilkenny 99,118 €803,582.00 €8.11
    Westmeath 88,770 €871,420.00 €9.82
    Laois 84,732 €1,074,486.00 €12.68
    Offaly 78,003 €1,004,426.00 €12.88
    Cavan 76,092 €750,425.00 €9.86
    Sligo 65,357 €720,140.00 €11.02
    Roscommon 64,436 €771,559.00 €11.97
    Monaghan 61,273 €669,957.00 €10.93
    Fermanagh 61,170 €634,173.00 €10.37
    Carlow 56,875 €856,897.00 €15.07
    Longford 40,810 €650,484.00 €15.94
    Leitrim 31,972 €688,521.00 €21.54


  • #41
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    You wouldn't mind the big advantages like population, sponsorship opportunities (a % of which I think should be collectively pooled and shared out), all players studying or working locally, best of facilities, playing almost every championship game at home

    But then for the GAA to go and financially rig the development money for 15+ years to even further skew the playing field for other counties?
    But unfair.


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  • #42
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Does anyone know where the money is going? This is a scandal! Anywhere to find the playing population of all counties? That table says that the lowest county got €634,173.00 and the 2nd highest county got €1,434,287.00. All counties within 800,000 of each other. Then you have Dublin spending €17,916,477.00. That's mental.


  • #43
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    You wouldn't mind the big advantages like population, sponsorship opportunities (a % of which I think should be collectively pooled and shared out), all players studying or working locally, best of facilities, playing almost every championship game at home

    But then for the GAA to go and financially rig the development money for 15+ years to even further skew the playing field for other counties?
    But unfair.

    It does seem very unfair. Why is it allowed? Why aren't people asking questions? No one seems to know what the money is spent on even.


  • #44
    Perifect
    Closed Accounts Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Perifect


    Oh wait, does this include the money they get from AIG, I just googled their sponsors. They have a 5 million deal with AIG. Is that where the money is coming from? Maybe other sponsors as well?


  • #45
    TrueGael
    Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭TrueGael


    https://www.dublingaa.ie/partners

    All these bad boys


  • #46
    joebloggs32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    Clareman wrote: »
    I've no idea what the breakdown of the money is for, they could be gold plating Parnell Park for all I care, ultimately no matter how much money they have it's all about getting their squad of players ready to win matches which every other county have to do as well. Another point is that all Dublin's players are accounted for in regards to employment/student not every county can say that, looking at Lee Chin admitting to living off sponsorships.

    The 18 million refers to money being pumped into coaching and games development. Dublin get a wholly disproportionate figure compared to all others in this area. This over the last 15 years has led to the current scenario where by a steady stream of talent is constantly filtering through to their senior set up.

    The other figures spent on team preparation would show some counties spending on a par with Dublin. However strip out the mileage being paid to players travelling long distances then once again Dublin are outspending their opponents considerably on all the other expenses that go into running an intercounty team.


  • #47
    gaffer91
    Registered Users Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    Clareman wrote: »

    When Kilkenny were going for a 5 in a row in hurling there wasn't talk about cutting their funding, it's up to the other teams to beat them, ultimately you can only have a max of 15 players on the pitch at any time, it's up to the opposition to beat them, if it was all down to funding then America would be the best rugby/soccer team in the world.

    It's the same old, same old every time the unfair advantages Dublin have are mentioned. Kilkenny won because of their own innate brilliance. They did not have any unfair advantages over the rest of the county like Dublin do. Their period of dominance was always going to be temporary.

    Dublin have a massive unfair funding advantage- both centrally and from their sponsorship deals which are multiples of other counties. There is no reason the sponsorship money couldn't be pooled and dished out to ensure all counties benefit. Combine this with population advantage, playing all games at home and less of a need to emigrate and you have a perfect storm for endless Dublin dominance. If you want to see the future of the All- Ireland series, look at what happened to the Leinster championship since 2005. This will eventually happen across the country as a whole if things continue on their current trajectory. Biased, blinkered Dubs always claim it is up to other teams to "step up" but it is almost impossible to do this when the standard has been set by a team with so many unfair advantages over you. MacKenna refers to Dublin as a "financially doped" team- it's a perfect description.

    The fact you can't see how all this extra money would help the "15 players on the pitch" is absolutely laughable also.

    If you truly believe that all the extra money makes no difference then you wouldn't mind it being withdrawn anyway?


  • #48
    DoctaDee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,593 ✭✭✭DoctaDee


    Once again people are choosing to ignore the bigger picture and are fixated on the central council grant for Dublin.

    I'll leave you with this - in 2017 all the other counties in Leinster received an additional 5.3 million in games development from the Leinster council, of which 2.3 million was spent on GPO's, . Dublin with 1.3 million has 78 GPO's, the rest of Leinster with approx 1.4 million has 79 GPO's.

    Make of it what you will but shine your light a little brighter on the complete issue instead of taking the likes of McKenna as the Bible on these matters


  • #49
    gaffer91
    Registered Users Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    DoctaDee wrote: »
    Once again people are choosing to ignore the bigger picture and are fixated on the central council grant for Dublin.

    I'll leave you with this - in 2017 all the other countries in Leinster received an additional 5.3 million in games development from the Leinster council, of which 2.3 million was spent on GPO's, . Dublin with 1.3 million has 78 GPO's, the rest of Leinster with approx 1.4 million has 79 GPO's.

    Make of it what you will but shine your light a little brighter on the complete issue instead of taking the likes of McKenna as the Bible on these matters

    You're the one ignoring the bigger picture. The fact is, by whatever measure you want to use- total funding, per capita funding etc- Dublin received and continue to receive sums of money far in excess of every other county. This is before we even factor in their money from sponsorship deals.

    It accounts for a large part for their success. And it ensures the playing field is not level. There's no denying this.


  • #50
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,208 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    Perifect wrote: »
    Oh wait, does this include the money they get from AIG, I just googled their sponsors. They have a 5 million deal with AIG. Is that where the money is coming from? Maybe other sponsors as well?

    Afaik the figures also don’t include the additional circa €1m per year funding through the Irish sports council that Bertie arranged back in the 00’s

    Bulk of the money is spent on coaching and development officers who work in the schools and clubs. Turning off the tap would mean all these coaches would lose their jobs and that’s why a sharp reduction won’t happen, nor should it really. The aim should be to bring other counties up to this level of support.

    In terms of spending on the senior team comparing Dublin to other teams is utterly pointless. They don’t have anywhere near the same costs in terms of travel, subsistence and accommodation. This can run in to many hundreds of thousands for a lot of counties and is by far the biggest headache county boards face in running their teams.

    The defence for the funding all along has been that Dublin simply have had a golden generation and their success will pass. I am not really sure any more. The average age of their team is stagnant as they ease brilliant new players in each year.

    They are finally fulfilling the potential that was always there in a county that has the population and funding of a province. They will of course enter a fallow period at some stage in the future but will have a capacity to rebuild more quickly than any rival could ever hope to. Can’t see them ever not being one of the main contenders again tbh.

    All this while the game around the country is experiencing an unprecedented player drain and other counties are being rebuffed when seeking seemingly very reasonable funding supports (If McKenna is to be believed). I don’t know.


  • #51
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,208 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    Just to add that the ‘money doesn’t kick the ball over the bar’ thing is the greatest load of nonsense I’ve ever heard. There is a reason professional sports teams the world over invest millions in sports science, coaching, high performance programmes and statistical analysis. It makes players perform better.

    Yes there has to be innate talent there to begin with but getting that additional 10% out of players can be the difference.


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