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The Jimbo Slice memorial thread, feat Nate Dogg - The new Off Topic thread

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    #3602
    Cill94
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Cill94


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    The point behind bending your knees is that you're reducing the level of lower back flexion and risking injury.

    Some loads you can pick up with more of a squat movement but some loads are bigger that you will have to hinge more to minimize lower back flexion when you're lifting.

    There’s actually no difference in injury rates between people who lift like the vid or those who round over. It’s a big ol’ myth that HR departments have been saying for decades.

    But yeah once the box gets heavy enough, you’ll have to hinge.


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    #3603
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,558 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Cill94 wrote: »
    There’s actually no difference in injury rates between people who lift like the vid or those who round over. It’s a big ol’ myth that HR departments have been saying for decades.

    But yeah once the box gets heavy enough, you’ll have to hinge.

    HR like a video though


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    #3604
    el Fenomeno
    Registered Users Posts: 3,156 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    caviardreams wrote: »
    I'm not sure I'll ever be able to pick up a couch tbh even if I deadlift from now until I'm 100! :D:D

    Pivot! Pivot! PIV-OT!


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    #3605
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    The point behind bending your knees is that you're reducing the level of lower back flexion and risking injury.

    Some loads you can pick up with more of a squat movement but some loads are bigger that you will have to hinge more to minimize lower back flexion when you're lifting.

    im guessing our friend here would shift an Atlas stone using the "HR" technique :pac:

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #3606
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Black Sheep wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with trap bars, they have advantages in particular contexts ... but I don’t go in for the arguments that they are “better” than straight bars either. They’re a useful speciality bar.

    At the moment I am actually using them a lot myself. More quad involvement, something I want right now ...

    And also yes, if you are dealing with a low back issue then potentially pulling with a more vertical back position may be a good idea. Doesn’t even have to be using the high handles most of the time. Trap bar can be handy for that, although to be honest you could just pull a straight bar off very thin plates or blocks and get similar relief. Not a permanent solution but if you’re managing something you have to do what you have to do sometimes.

    Nothing wrong with trap bars. Plenty wrong with why people use them most of the time. They're the Smit machine of the 2020s

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #3607
    Black Sheep
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,036 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    Brian? wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with trap bars. Plenty wrong with why people use them most of the time. They're the Smit machine of the 2020s

    In that vein, a great little write up on the Instagram of Paul Carter on the advantages of high stability movements as choices for optimising hypertrophy. High stability = Machines, including the much maligned smith machine. Right now he is still an outlier in what he’s saying, but in a few years that’ll be forgotten when this kind of bro training 2.0 is the big thing.



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    #3608
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Brian? wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with trap bars. Plenty wrong with why people use them most of the time. They're the Smit machine of the 2020s

    That's bait :pac: , at the end of the day its subjective , a bit dogmatic no? and how could you possibly know the inner thoughts of thousands of people who use trap bars for all kinds of reasons.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #3609
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    silverharp wrote: »
    That's bait :pac: , at the end of the day its subjective , a bit dogmatic no? and how could you possibly know the inner thoughts of thousands of people who use trap bars for all kinds of reasons.

    Because I've seen enough people list the reasons they use it, citing increased safety a lot of the time.

    I'm not sure why you say it's dogmatic. I'm not saying trap bars are bad idea for spurious reasons. I'm saying people use them for the wrong reasons.

    We've been down this road before. So I'll leave it there.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #3610
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,097 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    silverharp wrote: »
    That's bait :pac: , at the end of the day its subjective , a bit dogmatic no? and how could you possibly know the inner thoughts of thousands of people who use trap bars for all kinds of reasons.

    Because people often give their reasons. Typically, they are under some sort of it's safer, I find it more comfortable, yada yada.

    Which can be translated as "I find it easier". Which is not a good reason.

    The parallel with squats would be partial rom squats (or pin presses, rack pulls, etc). There are reasons to do partial ROM squats. Doing them for those reasons is valid.
    But the reality is, most people - probably close to 99% of people - doing partial ROM squats are not doing them for valid reasons. They are doing them because they are easier, they get to ignore mobility and form issues. And ultimately they are able to life more. It's vanity.


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    #3611
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Mellor wrote: »
    Because people often give their reasons. Typically, they are under some sort of it's safer, I find it more comfortable, yada yada.

    Which can be translated as "I find it easier". Which is not a good reason.

    The parallel with squats would be partial rom squats (or pin presses, rack pulls, etc). There are reasons to do partial ROM squats. Doing them for those reasons is valid.
    But the reality is, most people - probably close to 99% of people - doing partial ROM squats are not doing them for valid reasons. They are doing them because they are easier, they get to ignore mobility and form issues. And ultimately they are able to life more. It's vanity.

    there is still subjectivity and as internet discussions most involve an element of misrepresenting what people are thinking or saying and nuances are lost. I dont think your comparisons with some of the other movements you mentioned is relevant here. In my own case I do the Hex bar but Im also doing deficit RDL's and a weighted Jefferson curl is a project for this year so I appreciate the strength through ROM implicitly

    There are lots of reasonable reasons why people use them, for instance this Greg Nuckols article below and if anything if people are defensive about straight bar dead lifting, their time would be better spent on all the idiots giving it a bad name, go on a forum where someone asks about back pain after a session and half the respondents will say" totally normal" , no it fecking isnt

    https://www.strongerbyscience.com/trap-bar-deadlifts/

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #3612
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,097 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    silverharp wrote: »
    I dont think your comparisons with some of the other movements you mentioned is relevant here.

    Why not?

    Somebody is doing quarter squats because they are easier/they can lift more, or
    Somebody is doing high handle hex DLs because they are easier/they can lift more.

    I consider both of those situations the same. It's a vanity/ego thing.

    In my own case I do the Hex bar but Im also doing deficit RDL's and a weighted Jefferson curl is a project for this year so I appreciate the strength through ROM implicitly

    There are lots of reasonable reasons why people use them, for instance this Greg Nuckols article below and
    I never said there were no reasonalbe reasons you used them/
    You are confusing all of the time with most of the time.

    For instance, I'm using a trap bar in my current routine.
    if anything if people are defensive about straight bar dead lifting, their time would be better spent on all the idiots giving it a bad name, go on a forum where someone asks about back pain after a session and half the respondents will say" totally normal" , no it fecking isnt

    https://www.strongerbyscience.com/trap-bar-deadlifts/

    I don't think anyone where would say back pain is normal after training.
    Those guys being wrong doesn't means somebody else is less wrong.


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    #3613
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Mellor wrote: »
    Why not?

    Somebody is doing quarter squats because they are easier/they can lift more, or
    Somebody is doing high handle hex DLs because they are easier/they can lift more.

    I consider both of those situations the same. It's a vanity/ego thing.

    mind reading
    Mellor wrote: »

    I never said there were no reasonalbe reasons you used them/
    You are confusing all of the time with most of the time.

    For instance, I'm using a trap bar in my current routine.

    its more reasonable to say some people might be doing something for the "wrong" reasons some of the time, thats probably true of anything, but I think its nonsense to frame it as a default position unless proven otherwise which was Brian's framing that I took as "bait"

    Mellor wrote: »

    I don't think anyone where would say back pain is normal after training.
    Those guys being wrong doesn't means somebody else is less wrong.

    There must be if BB are anything to go by, it was just an observation that if people are giving an exercise a bad rep then it might feed into other people's decision making process.

    https://caliberstrong.com/blog/lower-back-pain-from-deadlifts/

    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=135644311

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #3614
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,558 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Pain and soreness are different things but people seem to use them interchangeably.


    Pain is bad.


    Soreness may not be an issue.


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    #3615
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    Pain and soreness are different things but people seem to use them interchangeably.


    Pain is bad.


    Soreness may not be an issue.

    "I've a pain in me hole with this job" is a lot worse than "My hole is sore from sitting on the jacks too long"


    Is that the kind of thing you mean?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #3616
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,558 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Brian? wrote: »
    "I've a pain in me hole with this job" is a lot worse than "My hole is sore from sitting on the jacks too long"


    Is that the kind of thing you mean?



    Kinda…


    I don't disagree that there could be an element of soreness from poor form and a little too much flexion.


    But fundamentally you can do deadlifts with perfect technique and have some muscle soreness. Especially if you're getting in some volume.


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    #3617
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    Kinda…


    I don't disagree that there could be an element of soreness from poor form and a little too much flexion.


    But fundamentally you can do deadlifts with perfect technique and have some muscle soreness. Especially if you're getting in some volume.


    I'm genuinely impressed you fashioned a serious and cogent response to my nonsense.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #3618
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,558 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Brian? wrote: »
    I'm genuinely impressed you fashioned a serious and cogent response to my nonsense.

    I decided to #BeKind


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    #3619
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,774 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Looking for some advice thanks. For the last three weeks I've returned to the diet and the exercise. During that time I've repeatedly lost weight ranging from 2.8kg in week 1 through to •4 this evening.

    During that time I've also increased my exercise, cycling between 80km & 110km per week and jogging on avg 5km three times per week also. I've been eating healthy, however what is baffling me is that during these three weeks despite losing weight my fat% is increasing on a weekly basis, increasing 1.9% this evening whilst at the same time losing almost 3lb in muscle.

    Would someone be able to point me in the right direction?
    Thanks.


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    #3620
    Daemonic
    Registered Users Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭Daemonic


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Looking for some advice thanks. For the last three weeks I've returned to the diet and the exercise. During that time I've repeatedly lost weight ranging from 2.8kg in week 1 through to •4 this evening.

    During that time I've also increased my exercise, cycling between 80km & 110km per week and jogging on avg 5km three times per week also. I've been eating healthy, however what is baffling me is that during these three weeks despite losing weight my fat% is increasing on a weekly basis, increasing 1.9% this evening whilst at the same time losing almost 3lb in muscle.

    Would someone be able to point me in the right direction?
    Thanks.
    If you're using a set of scales to measure, the most likely reason would be dehydration which can skew the results on scales in favour of body fat.


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    #3621
    atilladehun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭atilladehun


    I've heard it put this way before...

    Are you eating enough protein. Were you a mixture of muscle and fat before?

    If you're just doing cardio and have lost fat but also muscle over a few weeks then could it be possible that you've less fat, but more in relation to your less muscley body?

    Depends what you want to do. Some prefer crazy cut and rebuild later, others more controlled cut to get lean muscle.


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    #3622
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,774 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    atilladehun wrote: »
    I've heard it put this way before...

    Are you eating enough protein. Were you a mixture of muscle and fat before?

    If you're just doing cardio and have lost fat but also muscle over a few weeks then could it be possible that you've less fat, but more in relation to your less muscley body?

    Depends what you want to do. Some prefer crazy cut and rebuild later, others more controlled cut to get lean muscle.

    Thanks for that. Beginning to think myself I should increase my protein intake after looking over my last week's MFP records.

    I'll try that and I'll probably cut out one of the 5k per week to see how I get on.


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    #3623
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,558 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Thanks for that. Beginning to think myself I should increase my protein intake after looking over my last week's MFP records.

    I'll try that and I'll probably cut out one of the 5k per week to see how I get on.

    Protein won't add muscle in and of itself. It will facilitate muscle growth but you need a stimulus.

    It is possible you're losing a little muscle, which might bump up the fat % but give it time. The trend is more important than the absolute number. Use the scale under the same conditions every time, eg first thing, before eating, post morning pee/dump. Those things will affect the readings which aren't wholly accurate anyway but trends will give a better idea if you keep conditions constant.


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    #3624
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,097 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    atilladehun wrote: »
    If you're just doing cardio and have lost fat but also muscle over a few weeks then could it be possible that you've less fat, but more in relation to your less muscley body?

    For that to have they'd need to have lost a large amount of muscle. It's far more likely they the measurements are not accurate.
    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Looking for some advice thanks. For the last three weeks I've returned to the diet and the exercise. During that time I've repeatedly lost weight ranging from 2.8kg in week 1 through to •4 this evening.

    During that time I've also increased my exercise, cycling between 80km & 110km per week and jogging on avg 5km three times per week also. I've been eating healthy, however what is baffling me is that during these three weeks despite losing weight my fat% is increasing on a weekly basis, increasing 1.9% this evening whilst at the same time losing almost 3lb in muscle.

    2.8kg is week one suggest there was a decent amount of water loss. This is common, especially if you are doing a low carb, or very low calories diet.

    The home scale BF% are pretty to sensitive to hydration. Just focus on the weight and how you clothes fit. The rest will come right in the end.


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    #3625
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,774 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Mellor wrote: »
    For that to have they'd need to have lost a large amount of muscle. It's far more likely they the measurements are not accurate.



    2.8kg is week one suggest there was a decent amount of water loss. This is common, especially if you are doing a low carb, or very low calories diet.

    The home scale BF% are pretty to sensitive to hydration. Just focus on the weight and how you clothes fit. The rest will come right in the end.

    I'll do that, thanks. The clothes are a bit more looseðŸ˜႒ so I'll continue on as I am for now. I'll worry about the muscle when I get rid of some more inches first. Thanks everyone.


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    #3626
    testtech05
    Registered Users Posts: 1,993 ✭✭✭testtech05


    Bit of a random one, but trying to figure out if it is still worth my while ordering a couple of 25Kg cast iron plates from strength shop? Has anyone ordered from them since Brexit and might have an idea of the customs charges? I know I will also be liable for VAT @23%; I think.

    Actually better yet would anyone have an alternative supplier in the EU I could use? I am looking for 2 x 20 or 25kg cast iron plates


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    #3627
    Deano7788
    Registered Users Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭Deano7788


    testtech05 wrote: »
    Bit of a random one, but trying to figure out if it is still worth my while ordering a couple of 25Kg cast iron plates from strength shop? Has anyone ordered from them since Brexit and might have an idea of the customs charges? I know I will also be liable for VAT @23% I think.

    Actually better yet would anyone have an alternative supplier in the EU I could use? I am looking for 2 x 20 or 25kg cast iron plates

    Rogue?

    https://www.rogueeurope.eu/rogue-olympic-plates-eu

    20s are out of stock but 25s are in.


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    #3628
    testtech05
    Registered Users Posts: 1,993 ✭✭✭testtech05


    Deano7788 wrote: »
    Rogue?

    https://www.rogueeurope.eu/rogue-olympic-plates-eu

    20s are out of stock but 25s are in.

    Thanks Deano,
    Checked out Rogue just now even though the price initially is good @ €143 there are additional below fees:
    Shipping & Handling (Standard) €46.26
    Tax €43.53
    So takes the total for the 2 plates delivered to €232.79

    StrengthShop by comparison the Plates are €134.32
    Shipping (Courier) €20.67
    Taxes ??

    I guess I need to try and find out how much the taxes are likely to be on those importing from the UK.


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    #3629
    DylanJM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭DylanJM


    testtech05 wrote: »
    Thanks Deano,
    Checked out Rogue just now even though the price initially is good @ €143 there are additional below fees:
    Shipping & Handling (Standard) €46.26
    Tax €43.53
    So takes the total for the 2 plates delivered to €232.79

    StrengthShop by comparison the Plates are €134.32
    Shipping (Courier) €20.67
    Taxes ??

    I guess I need to try and find out how much the taxes are likely to be on those importing from the UK.


    You'll have 23% VAT, import duty (not sure what it is for gym equipment) and the shipping company's tax handling charge (usually €10-€20) on top of the UK price. It'll prob still be slightly cheaper from strength shop but I'd go for Rogue just because they've got a great reputation and I used them before and have always been pretty happy.


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    #3630
    testtech05
    Registered Users Posts: 1,993 ✭✭✭testtech05


    DylanJM wrote: »
    You'll have 23% VAT, import duty (not sure what it is for gym equipment) and the shipping company's tax handling charge (usually €10-€20) on top of the UK price. It'll prob still be slightly cheaper from strength shop but I'd go for Rogue just because they've got a great reputation and I used them before and have always been pretty happy.

    Cheers DylanJM, sounds like it might be worth the bit extra to avoid the extra hassle tbh.


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    #3631
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,736 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    testtech05 wrote: »
    Cheers DylanJM, sounds like it might be worth the bit extra to avoid the extra hassle tbh.

    Have a look on DoneDeal. There’s loads of stuff being put up from gyms closing down or people who set up home gyms and are now offloading the stuff cause they’re back to real gyms


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