Let's all talk about Lewis?

22-11-2020 9:46pm

I'd prefer if they waited til retirement to honour sportspeople but if they're honouring any sportman then a 7 time world champion in a globally popular sport is a no-brainer really.

Spudman_20000 · 25-11-2020 10:07am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Looks like Lewis in on for a knighthood in the new year. Article says the needed to settle his tax affairs before it could go ahead.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8973965/Lewis-Hamilton-awarded-Knighthood-New-Years-Honours-tax-affairs-cleared.html

So he'll be taking a knee again? Fair play to him

Gaoth Laidir · 30-11-2020 1:07am

Bottas got more slack from some users on this forum again today after finishing 8th from 2nd on the grid at Bahrain. After a bad start from the dirty side, he got a puncture, which demoted him back to 16th, but he made it back to 8th again before getting a second puncture during the final safety car, making it home on the rim without losing a place.

I had a look at his technical DNFs at Mercedes compared to Lewis'. Since Bottas joined in 2017 he's had 5 technical failures (hydraulics, electronics, engine x 2, puncture), compared to Lewis' one (Austria 2018, fuel pressure). Who can forget that famous puncture while leading the race in Baku in 2018, then another blowout in Silverstone this year, where he lost several places while Lewis got his on the last lap and made it home. Whatever about punctures, which is just bad luck, it would seem that almost all the reliability issues in the Mercedes camp fall on Valtteri's side of the garage. People seem to forget or ignore this fact when slating the man. Of course there have been other times when Valtteri made mistakes (most recently Nurburgring), but a cynic could look at it and surmise that Lewis seems to get the lion's share of technical attention at the expense of Bottas.

Discuss.

El_Duderino 09 · 30-11-2020 10:15am

Yeah he’s been slightly less lucky than Lewis but 5 DNFs over 3 years isn’t the problem. It’s the consistency of the gap between Lewis to Bottas.

I don’t buy the idea that Bottas is crap. The gap isn’t as big as the gap between other teammates and Lewis is a top driver so there’s no shame in losing to him and beating him a few times in the season. That’s all Vettel has managed to do this season and people rush to his defence. Vettel has been beaten by a bigger margin over the season in quali and with about the same regularity in the race.

I think that it’s the disappointment that people misplace and call him crap as a result. He’s the only driver on the grid who has the car to actually challenge Lewis and he just isn’t good enough. I think he’s decent and often beats Lewis in quali, but just isn’t fast enough overall.

murphyebass · 21-12-2020 10:04am

BBC sports personality of the year.

Words fail me.

Gaoth Laidir · 21-12-2020 10:31am

murphyebass wrote: »

BBC sports personality of the year.

Words fail me.

But...but...did you not receive the positivity he sent out to everyone?

H8GHOTI · 21-12-2020 11:01am

Well deserved

Zookey123 · 21-12-2020 11:17am

I don't get why everyone is so salty about Lewis on this thread. Lets not forget all his accomplishments in the sport. Second in his rookie season outscoring former 2 time world champion Alonso (most people here would be on their knees if Russel did that), has a race win in every season in f1 (what other driver has achieved that?), 7 world titles, consistently dominates his team mate in both race and quali, beat Seb in a slower car in 2018, all his achievements in karting F3 and GP2 winner. People say its all about the car. Well he has to share that and throughout his career he has had some tough team mates (Alonso, Button, Rosberg all world champions) name another driver who has had a tougher team mate line up. Yet it is he who has won the seven titles and only been outscored by a team mate twice (both occasions barely). There is only one reason people don't give him the props he deserves (we all know).

El_Duderino 09 · 21-12-2020 11:26am

H8GHOTI wrote: »

Well deserved

I wouldn’t have voted for him, but his achievement list for this year is pretty huge. Record pole positions (may have been last year), record wins, record world championships.

If he was ever going to win it then this is the right year for it.

El_Duderino 09 · 21-12-2020 11:29am

Zookey123 wrote: »

I don't get why everyone is so salty about Lewis on this thread. Lets not forget all his accomplishments in the sport. Second in his rookie season outscoring former 2 time world champion Alonso (most people here would be on their knees if Russel did that), has a race win in every season in f1 (what other driver has achieved that?), 7 world titles, consistently dominates his team mate in both race and quali, beat Seb in a slower car in 2018, all his achievements in karting F3 and GP2 winner. People say its all about the car. Well he has to share that and throughout his career he has had some tough team mates (Alonso, Button, Rosberg all world champions) name another driver who has had a tougher team mate line up. Yet it is he who has won the seven titles and only been outscored by a team mate twice (both occasions barely). There is only one reason people don't give him the props he deserves (we all know).

Yeah I know the reasons I don’t like him, he’s just not a likeable guy. Speaks in cliches, not very relatable, doesn’t appear to be very genuine in his over-effusive praise of fans. Not someone I would support in general.

Zookey123 · 21-12-2020 3:20pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah I know the reasons I don’t like him, he’s just not a likeable guy. Speaks in cliches, not very relatable, doesn’t appear to be very genuine in his over-effusive praise of fans. Not someone I would support in general.

That's your personal opinion. Many people like him for his personality. What I'm speaking about is his professional accomplishments beings questioned because of it. He is the most successful F1 driver of all time and he did it without daddies billions. He deserves all the accolades given. People on here getting salty just because he isn't part of the "elite class".

El_Duderino 09 · 21-12-2020 3:30pm

Zookey123 wrote: »

That's your personal opinion. Many people like him for his personality. What I'm speaking about is his professional accomplishments beings questioned because of it. He is the most successful F1 driver of all time and he did it without daddies billions. He deserves all the accolades given. People on here getting salty just because he isn't part of the "elite class".

Of course it’s my personal opinion. I said that in the post you quoted “I know the reasons I don’t like him”...

I don’t question his professional achievements. I think he’s a top driver and is legitimately a 7time world champion, most wins, most pole positions.

I just think he’s a nob.

Gaoth Laidir · 21-12-2020 3:44pm

Zookey123 wrote: »

I don't get why everyone is so salty about Lewis on this thread. Lets not forget all his accomplishments in the sport. Second in his rookie season outscoring former 2 time world champion Alonso (most people here would be on their knees if Russel did that), has a race win in every season in f1 (what other driver has achieved that?), 7 world titles, consistently dominates his team mate in both race and quali, beat Seb in a slower car in 2018, all his achievements in karting F3 and GP2 winner. People say its all about the car. Well he has to share that and throughout his career he has had some tough team mates (Alonso, Button, Rosberg all world champions) name another driver who has had a tougher team mate line up. Yet it is he who has won the seven titles and only been outscored by a team mate twice (both occasions barely). There is only one reason people don't give him the props he deserves (we all know).

Absolutely no problem acknowledging his achievements, albeit in a very different era (easier to drive cars faster now, in other words), but the clue is in the name: Sports Personality. If they want to award someone for their sporting achievements then call it that and don't bring personality into it. Sports Person would fit better.

For me, he's got the least likeable personality of anyone (after Alonso). I suppose he got it this year because of his off-track crusades, but of course we're not allowed to mention that here. If you're talking about personality then Norris would tip in my opinion.

Zookey123 · 21-12-2020 3:55pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Of course it’s my personal opinion. I said that in the post you quoted “I know the reasons I don’t like him”...

I don’t question his professional achievements. I think he’s a top driver and is legitimately a 7time world champion, most wins, most pole positions.

I just think he’s a nob.

Well then the post wasn't directed at you since you are giving him "the props he deserves". You have your opinion and millions of people have a different one, but at the end of the day LH is going down in history as one of the greatest of all time and that's not an opinion but a fact.

Zaph · 21-12-2020 4:03pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Absolutely no problem acknowledging his achievements, albeit in a very different era (easier to drive cars faster now, in other words), but the clue is in the name: Sports Personality. If they want to award someone for their sporting achievements then call it that and don't bring personality into it. Sports Person would fit better.

For me, he's got the least likeable personality of anyone (after Alonso). I suppose he got it this year because of his off-track crusades, but of course we're not allowed to mention that here. If you're talking about personality then Norris would tip in my opinion.

It's quite clearly using the word personality as per definition number 2 below. I agree that Hamilton is clearly lacking in personality as per the first definition, but there's no disputing that he's a celebrity/famous person. As for the award, given the season he's had on the track and the records he's set, who else could they have given it to? None of the other nominees came even close to his achievements, and that's speaking as someone who's not a Lewis fan but I can appreciate how good he is.

personality
/pəːsəˈnalɪti/
noun: personality; plural noun: personalities

1. the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character.
"she had a sunny personality that was very engaging"

2. a celebrity or famous person.
"an official opening by a famous personality"

Zookey123 · 21-12-2020 4:07pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Absolutely no problem acknowledging his achievements, albeit in a very different era (easier to drive cars faster now, in other words), but the clue is in the name: Sports Personality. If they want to award someone for their sporting achievements then call it that and don't bring personality into it. Sports Person would fit better.

For me, he's got the least likeable personality of anyone (after Alonso). I suppose he got it this year because of his off-track crusades, but of course we're not allowed to mention that here. If you're talking about personality then Norris would tip in my opinion.

But that just comes down to personal preference. There are people who do like his personality hence why he won. It also has to do with sporting achievements as you said and I can't think of anyone who achieved more this year. On your point about past cars. I'm sure they were more difficult to drive (definitely more dangerous) but everyone is in the same boat. Its not like only LH is driving in modern cars and everyone else is in a1980s Williams. He can only compete with what's in front of him and it's still far from easy. No one could know how he would compare with prost/senna/mansel etc so no real point trying to compare.

tipp_tipp_tipp · 21-12-2020 4:14pm

Ye should respect British sovereignty in choosing their SPOTY!

Hamilton has just had a record breaking/equaling year in a major international sport. Seems like a pretty legitimate winner to me. Move on lads

H8GHOTI · 21-12-2020 4:18pm

Zaph wrote: »

It's quite clearly using the word personality as per definition number 2 below...

Can’t believe that actually had to be pointed out.

Faugheen · 25-12-2020 4:35pm

I see the whingers out-did themselves again with the definition of the word ‘personality’.

The straw-clutching and the tears are glorious to watch.

flazio · 25-12-2020 7:04pm

Faugheen wrote: »

I see the whingers out-did themselves again with the definition of the word ‘personality’.

The straw-clutching and the tears are glorious to watch.

And a happy Christmas to you too.

El_Duderino 09 · 25-12-2020 8:28pm

flazio wrote: »

And a happy Christmas to you too.

I mean, the ones who say Hamilton isn’t an excellent driver have absolutely nothing to go on this year except blind hatred. He did all that was asked of him and won the championship with a great margin for comfort, setting records along the way. Hard to make a case against him.

Gaoth Laidir · 25-12-2020 8:36pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I mean, the ones who say Hamilton isn’t an excellent driver have absolutely nothing to go on this year except blind hatred. He did all that was asked of him and won the championship with a great margin for comfort, setting records along the way. Hard to make a case against him.

Yes, he did that indeed. However, there is a contradiction with some people when it comes to how good Lewis is and how bad Bottas is. Bottas came second, but apparently he's still **** and "anyone could come second in that car". Going on that rationale, then, anyone a little bit better than Bottas could do what Lewis did. They're in the same car, and that car has been top dog for years, so put Max, Leclerc or Russell in it and they would have done the same.

Or is it only one rule for Lewis and another for Bottas?

El_Duderino 09 · 25-12-2020 8:58pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Yes, he did that indeed. However, there is a contradiction with some people when it comes to how good Lewis is and how bad Bottas is. Bottas came second, but apparently he's still **** and "anyone could come second in that car". Going on that rationale, then, anyone a little bit better than Bottas could do what Lewis did. They're in the same car, and that car has been top dog for years, so put Max, Leclerc or Russell in it and they would have done the same.

Or is it only one rule for Lewis and another for Bottas?

I don’t argue that Bottas is bad. I think he’s good. Not top notch, but he’s a strong qualifier and less strong in the race, good overall. Not as good as Hamilton, obviously. The gap becomes clear over the race distant.

ctrl-alt-delete · 30-12-2020 11:41pm

Well Lewis is to be knighted.

All that taking the knee has been good practice.

AMKC · 31-12-2020 12:29am

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Well Lewis is to be knighted.

All that taking the knee has been good practice.

He has been knighted now has he not?

I doubt it is going to happen person with the Covid Virus and lockdown around so it must have been done virtually.

Charlie-Bravo · 31-12-2020 1:10am

Does that mean he can now retire? Any news of a contract yet?

Zaph · 31-12-2020 1:29am

AMKC wrote: »

He has been knighted now has he not?

I doubt it is going to happen person with the Covid Virus and lockdown around so it must have been done virtually.

No, the New Year's honours were only just announced this evening, he hasn't actually received his knighthood yet, and it can often take months before it happens. However I believe convention allows for those due to be knighted to be addressed as "sir" as soon as the announcement is made.

El_Duderino 09 · 31-12-2020 1:31am

The New Years honours take effect from 1 January. Not sure if they need a ceremony. Probably like a wedding where the ceremony is just theatre and the actual legal procedure happens by the Queen signing it in to effect. I don’t suppose he needs to be present so it will probably happen remotely without and problem.

Hard to argue against it. He’s the most successful f1 driver of all time.

unkel · 31-12-2020 1:36am

flazio wrote: »

The numbers are in his favour, as they are with Sebastian and Schumacher before them. These days being the best is about so much more than hopping in the car turning the ignition and driving away. It's about negotiating yourself into the best car to hop into in the first place and building a team around that, it's about being a person that people want to get behind and root for, but ultimately it's about putting in the performance when it matters most and Lewis does that. Not 10 times out of 10, probably not even 9 times out of 10. But he does do it.
Like it or lump it negotiating or working up the ranks of the right teams is a valid aspect of being the greatest F1 driver and Vettel did it with Red Bull, Schumacher did it with Benneton and Ferrari and Lewis has done it with McLaren and Mercedes-Benz.

And 2 years after this post, I just liked it and I am the only one to have done so. Astonishing as this post is exactly how it is.

flazio · 31-12-2020 7:46am

unkel wrote: »

And 2 years after this post, I just liked it and I am the only one to have done so. Astonishing as this post is exactly how it is.

Two years later the only amendment I'd make is that he definitely puts in the performance 9 or 10 times out of 10.

elperello · 31-12-2020 10:16pm

Zaph wrote: »

No, the New Year's honours were only just announced this evening, he hasn't actually received his knighthood yet, and it can often take months before it happens. However I believe convention allows for those due to be knighted to be addressed as "sir" as soon as the announcement is made.

LH will be the first knight of the realm on the grid of a GP.

Jackie Stewart was retired when he got his in 2001.

Gaoth Laidir · 12-01-2021 12:55pm

Any sign of him signing a contract? What's he holding out for? An extra zero? At his own admission, without the team he wouldn't be where he is, so he should really stop stalling and just sign the bloody thing.

El_Duderino 09 · 12-01-2021 1:27pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Any sign of him signing a contract? What's he holding out for? An extra zero? At his own admission, without the team he wouldn't be where he is, so he should really stop stalling and just sign the bloody thing.

That’s what you and I would think. But the reality is that all parties still want the best deal possible. Money and work conditions are about buying food and housing and having a few bob left over to have some fun. But Hamilton already has more money than he could spend so the contract is more about status than the actual amount of money.

What would actually constitute a good deal for Hamilton? 3 years and more money then his last deal? The likely recession and cost cap means he won’t get more than his last deal. So it’s hard to measure what’s a good deal and what isn’t (the money involved is like Disney dollars, it’s just a a token)

I’m certain the deal will come. And like the Brexit deal, it’ll be done at the last minute so both sides know they got the most out of it.

the_pen_turner · 12-01-2021 2:08pm

What are his options if he doesn't sign

Busi_Girl08 · 12-01-2021 2:09pm

When's the deadline for contract negotiations? They're due in Bahrain at the end of March

Zookey123 · 12-01-2021 2:12pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

What are his options if he doesn't sign

All the other teams are signed up so probably a year out, but lets be realistic he will sign its in the best interest for both parties.

the_pen_turner · 12-01-2021 2:14pm

Zookey123 wrote: »

All the other teams are signed up so probably a year out, but lets be realistic he will sign its in the best interest for both parties.

I know he will almost certainly sign but it's not 100 percent

Zookey123 · 12-01-2021 2:18pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

I know he will almost certainly sign but it's not 100 percent

Yeah true, in which case a year out is most likely. Mercedes will take George and a place at Williams will open up but if Mercedes couldn't sign Lewis what chance would Williams have.

El_Duderino 09 · 12-01-2021 2:42pm

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

When's the deadline for contract negotiations? They're due in Bahrain at the end of March

The end of March. There is no deadline, as such. They would want a driver who isn’t under contract to be in sensitive team meetings. But Hamilton will almost certainly be under contract when then season starts. So I don’t think there’s would be much fuss.

T-Maxx · 12-01-2021 2:43pm

Of course he'll sign. Probably too busy overcoming some adversity somewhere...

Charlie-Bravo · 12-01-2021 3:35pm

I think Hamilton is looking to emulate Senna's contact negotiations when with McLaren, but they lost the Honda engine partnership (in 1992?). Senna wanted to move to Williams-Renault team to be on parity with Prost, but Prost had a clause with Williams preventing that particular move for Senna.

So in negotiations with Ron Dennis, Senna drove on a race by race contract in that year after Honda left. I'm sure Hamilton would like to emulate his hero's endeavours. But I don't think Hamilton really wants to move anywhere else!!

Frank Bullitt · 12-01-2021 5:52pm

Charlie-Bravo wrote: »

I think Hamilton is looking to emulate Senna's contact negotiations when with McLaren, but they lost the Honda engine partnership (in 1992?). Senna wanted to move to Williams-Renault team to be on parity with Prost, but Prost had a clause with Williams preventing that particular move for Senna.

So in negotiations with Ron Dennis, Senna drove on a race by race contract in that year after Honda left. I'm sure Hamilton would like to emulate his hero's endeavours. But I don't think Hamilton really wants to move anywhere else!!

Can't see Merc entertaining that idea. They also have the best car, so why would he want to do that?

Charlie-Bravo · 12-01-2021 8:29pm

Merc wouldn't entertain that, I know. But we are talking about Hamilton, so I wouldn't be surprised.

Top Dog · 14-01-2021 2:35am

Formula World uploaded a video today revealing some of the rumours about Hamiltons demands;
4 year £200 million
10% team winnings
Some limited production Merc
And more

Apparently Daimler have flat out refused his demands, Toto is undecided and Ineos are willing to pay a good portion of his salary.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_3djTi9a6w

gsi300024v · 14-01-2021 3:41pm

Those 4-year contracts seem a bit silly. Will hamilton try his hardest over the next 4 years. It's a lot of money to ask but you'd almost know you'll be winning the title again next year. Will Merc be in f1 for the next 4 years. With the electrification of so many cars, it seems to be less relevant as the years go by.
Hamilton has to be admired for staying on the top all those years, moving to Merc at the right time. But then some of that was probably lucked also. He's definitely done well. Always in good cars. Just keeping a focus all those years and fit and able, not sidetracked when I'm sure there are so many offering all sorts of distractions to him.
If you look at top athletes many of them will not be smiley nice cuddly types. Johnson the runner, Jordan, Tyson, Patrasis, Senna, Prost, Vettel, Mansell, them drivers were not the most media-friendly either and it seems with smartphones and the internet it's even harder to give all them eyes that are on you the right impression. Oh and that Spanish bloke who's coming back, they said part of the reasons he's got no drive for a bit is he is so hard to get along within a team.
Champs need to be so focused on winning and screw everything else.
There are exceptions of course. One Irish guy in drifting is always happy when his teammate does well or he likes having the best drivers go up against him. In motogp one of the top riders didn't want another top rider in the team, and he sort of had a point, he said he'd helped develop a championship winning bike over a number of years why should he let someone else come in an take advantage of this. And this was Rossi, very well liked, but so focused.
Hamilton also i believe is looking for a roll with f1 outside of driving in the future. The man seems to like to work, us normal humans would be happy to run off with out 200millions and be happy but then he's got a certain level of life style that isn't cheap to maintain so he'll need that income.

gsi300024v · 14-01-2021 3:43pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That’s what you and I would think. But the reality is that all parties still want the best deal possible. Money and work conditions are about buying food and housing and having a few bob left over to have some fun. But Hamilton already has more money than he could spend so the contract is more about status than the actual amount of money.

What would actually constitute a good deal for Hamilton? 3 years and more money then his last deal? The likely recession and cost cap means he won’t get more than his last deal. So it’s hard to measure what’s a good deal and what isn’t (the money involved is like Disney dollars, it’s just a a token)

I’m certain the deal will come. And like the Brexit deal, it’ll be done at the last minute so both sides know they got the most out of it.

He is likely to want to get an amazing deal that is far beyond what anyone less is getting which might stroke his ego some more and let him stand above the rest contractually as well as on the track.

El_Duderino 09 · 14-01-2021 4:06pm

gsi300024v wrote: »

He is likely to want to get an amazing deal that is far beyond what anyone less is getting which might stroke his ego some more and let him stand above the rest contractually as well as on the track.

Precisely. The number of dollars is only measured relative to other drivers and other world champions. Same with the conditions. He fought tooth and nail over the right to own the car after the season ends so he can put it in his own house rather then it being in the Mercedes museum. It’s only about having the best conditions, not the actual conditions themselves.

Frank Bullitt · 14-01-2021 4:50pm

Top Dog wrote: »

Formula World uploaded a video today revealing some of the rumours about Hamiltons demands;
4 year £200 million
10% team winnings
Some limited production Merc
And more

Apparently Daimler have flat out refused his demands, Toto is undecided and Ineos are willing to pay a good portion of his salary.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_3djTi9a6w

I'd imagine the bigger hold up is the commitment Merc have to F1 as a works team for that long, along with giving away that amount of winnings.

TCP/IP · 14-01-2021 4:56pm

They should just put Russell in the car and they will win the championship at a canter with him at the wheel anyway for about 85% less cost of keeping lewis.
Will get an easy drivers and constructors win again no one can touch Merc over the season not until at least 2022 anyway.

Charlie-Bravo · 14-01-2021 5:14pm

Absolutely - Lewis is not in a position to barter to that extent. Maybe there's some merchandising tie-in and Merc might lose some revenue on that end, but Lewis did not make Mercedes F1 what they are today, the team did (and kudos for their hard work on it albeit yielding a boring championship).

Let's all talk about Lewis?

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