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Homophobic attack on London bus - mod warning, please see OP

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    #392
    elli21
    Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭elli21


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Because heterosexual couples dont get targeted for being heterosexual obviously.

    Have seen some dreadful comments sayinng that these "Boys" carried out this attack because the gay women must have been rubbing their sexuality in their face.Victim blaming at it's finest


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    #393
    Billy Mays
    Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    Nobelium wrote: »
    You're the one refusing to answer.

    I provided stats.

    I don't have stats for specifically for public transport, but if you are trying to claim that public transport is so different to normal crime statistics, you are free to post them up.

    The point which you are desperately trying to avoid is worse crimes happen in the UK every single day, yet these victims don't make headline news, why ?
    Because some crimes are more unusual than others. How hard is it to understand?

    There was a story all over the news a few weeks ago about some man getting a milkshake thrown at him outside a polling station. There was even a thread on here about it. It goes without saying that there were worst crimes committed elsewhere that day that didn't make the news. Were you in that thread moaning about the publicity that incident was getting? If not why weren't you?


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    #394
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    elli21 wrote: »
    How so?

    For me the media reporting an attack doesn't mean they are fetishizing it.


    Are we not allowed to report crimes anymore because people might get offended ?
    I reckon the thinking is that an attack on lesbians is more salacious than an a attack on non-lesbians. more clicks.


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    #395
    Billy Mays
    Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    Deleted User wrote: »
    im genuinely sorry i wasnt being serious

    it was smartassery

    thought it was obvious enough punning so apologies!
    No worries


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    #396
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Billy Mays wrote: »
    Because some crimes are more unusual than others. How hard is it to understand?

    So in reality homophobic attacks are unusual and therefore more newsworthy, or do you believe that if it happened to be any other couple some scumbags picked on, it would have made international headlines as well ?


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    #397
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    are homosexual couples in more danger of attack from normal people in displays of affection?

    Probably.
    or is it toerags in groups looking for trouble that are likely to see a trigger- a gay couple, a member of a minority, a group of girls with short skirts, a fella on his own on a walk home, whatever gradation of reason it comes down

    There are such toerags. Isn’t it good that they have been caught here?
    these lads werent going home without causing trouble

    That’s not proven at all. But if it is isn’t it hoood they were caught.
    the correct philosophy of the thread, the thing we are "supposed" to do, is to....what? lets analyse....

    i. sympathise (useless activity at such a remove, so cant be the point)
    ii. agree that the pertinent item here is one out of many data points (ok, thats interesting.....getting warmer)
    iii. agree that this is evidence of....what....? ah, the pertinent group in the data point above must receive lets see....a special status for crimes against them, perhaps? more attention or focus on such crimes at least? lets say, on available evidence, its that
    iv. agree that this is a case of 'us' - not members of the pertinent group- either tacitly or actively being responsible for the (now special status) crimes against that group
    v. important point- you can, as a non-member of the pertinent group, be a 'good member' by throwing your unthinking support behind this initiative. otherwise
    vi. you are a 'bad member' and in full support of the crime having occurred, oh and by the way why do you hate the pertinent group?
    vii. any questioning of the above is taking offence, why dont you sympathise, why are you whatabouting, my god is this the kind of world we want, etc etc cesspit handwringing

    You’re reading far too much into this thread. Nobody has blamed all heterosexuals. Some people have said, correctly, that men tend to be more violent.
    the angle is to browbeat the majority to dumbly accept some culpability for something they didnt do and dont support. cheerlead or guilt by association.

    The way your mind works. Jesus. Donate it to science. I got involved here mainly because of the posters saying “nothing to see here” or “nothing homophobic here”.
    it is totally on-point to ask every time why, if an event must be viewed through the lens of identity politics, it invariably must be viewed in *only the way suggested* and not, for instance, an investigation into what the relevant characteristics of the actual person responsible might be.

    A clearly homophobic attack is probably caused by homophobia.
    scrotebags be scrotebaggin, y'all. thats not the fault of whites, men, the middle classes, str8s, cis, fffg voters, whatever.

    Stop arguing with the phantoms in your head because those are all strawman.
    stop hanging collective responsibility on society.

    stop framing unpleasant events as more important, serious or relevant if they occur to groups you happen to get more kudos for liking on twitter

    Nobody is doing that here either.
    start thinking about how to identify and catch people who do this sh1t and ensure they dont ever think about doing it again, in a manner that encourages les autres

    They have been caught. I’ll come back to that.
    the ills of the world arent caused by people disagreeing with ye online. and starting right-on threads for thanks isnt valuable or productive.

    sorry. bad news i know

    Insane again. Who is arguing here that the ills of the world are caused by disagreement online?

    I’m anti crime. In general I don’t excuse it. And I think that the Irish judiciary are not fit for purpose. I don’t excuse scrotes either. This makes me seem right wing on general crime threads and left wing on hate crime threads.

    To me I’m being consistent. It’s surprising then that people who are anti general crime get annoyed by hate crimes being policed more thoroughly because if it’s the same scrotes who were going to to get violent anyway, and they get locked up anyway isn’t that good?


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    #398
    elli21
    Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭elli21


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    I reckon the thinking is that an attack on lesbians is more salacious than an a attack on non-lesbians. more clicks.

    That is your personal opinion which of course you are entilled to.I know how gay women are treated globally hence why i mentioned corrective rape....You might think it's about clicks..trust me the gay women in Soweto don't care a fok about clicks..They just want people to acknowledge they are been raped because they are gay.Now we see it spreading to Europe and the response is ..It's just click bait


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    #399
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    spreading? is this the same spreading of anti semitism? white supremacy?


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    #400
    Billy Mays
    Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    Nobelium wrote: »
    So in reality homophobic attacks are unusual and therefore more newsworthy, or do you believe that if it happened to be any other couple some scumbags picked on, it would have made international headlines as well ?
    It's all about the circumstances really, which you don't seem to be able to grasp. Some attacks on straight couples make the news, some don't. Why is that? Because the circumstances of some attacks are different than others. It's really not that difficult a concept to understand :confused:

    So anyway, the guy getting milkshaked the other week. Were you annoyed that that was all over the news aswell? I mean it was only a f*cking milkshake. I had a pint thrown over me in a pub a couple of years ago and it didn't even make the Northside People


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    #401
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Billy Mays wrote: »
    It's all about the circumstances really, which you don't seem to be able to grasp. Some attacks on straight couples make the news, some don't. Why is that? Because some circumstances are different than others.

    Example of an attack on a straight couple at the same level as this that made international news headlines ?
    Billy Mays wrote: »
    I had a pint thrown over me in a pub a couple of years ago and it didn't even make the Northside People

    Somehow i'm not surprised


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    #402
    AMKC
    Registered Users Posts: 15,671 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Very sad to see this. It was a bunch of cowards that done this. That is all they are and they do not deserve to be called anything nice. Anyone who attacks someone else be they straight, gay, trans, etc is a coward. Live and let live. Its none of your business who someone else loves or what they wear and does no harm. Unfortunately these small closed minded backwards cowards are stuck in the past.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Options
    #403
    elli21
    Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭elli21


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    spreading? is this the same spreading of anti semitism? white supremacy?

    yes


  • Options
    #404
    Billy Mays
    Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    Nobelium wrote: »
    Example of an attack on a straight couple at the same level as this that made international news headlines ?



    Somehow i'm not surprised
    You first, examples of women being asked to perform lesbian shows and being beaten up for refusing.

    And why won't you answer my question on the milkshake story bro?

    I mean if you're so annoyed about this story making the news you should be absolutely fumimg about a bloke being hit by a milkshake making the news. Here's the thread on it. Knock yourself out.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057982297&page=60

    I'm gonna bow out of this thread now but just so you know Nob you've had an absolute unmitigated disaster in this thread. I'll be popping you on ignore now. Bye bye.


  • Options
    #405
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Billy Mays wrote: »
    You first, examples of women being asked to perform lesbian shows and being beaten up for refusing.

    So in other words, you can't find a single example of any assault on a heterosexual couple making international headlines, or are you tyring to claim heterosexual couples are never assaulted anywhere ?
    Billy Mays wrote: »
    And why won't you answer my question on the milkshake story bro?

    I mean if you're so annoyed about this story making the news you should be absolutely fumimg about a bloke being hit by a milkshake making the news. Here's the thread on it. Knock yourself out.

    The milkshake stories so far have been reporting attacks regardless of the victims sexuality, or are they claimed homophobic attacks as well now ?


  • Options
    #406
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Nobelium wrote: »
    So in other words, you can't find a single example of any assault on a heterosexual couple making international headlines, or are you tyring to claim heterosexual couples are never assaulted anywhere ?


    Is this a genuine request? You just want a story of a couple being attacked and making headlines?


  • Options
    #407
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Nobelium wrote: »
    So in other words, you can't find a single example of any assault on a heterosexual couple making international headlines, or are you tyring to claim heterosexual couples are never assaulted anywhere ?



    The milkshake stories so far have been reporting attacks regardless of the victims sexuality, or are they claimed homophobic attacks as well now ?

    Why do you care so much that people who are attacked for being gay is making headlines?

    Seriously? What on Earth is wrong with highlighting that gay people still have to put up with this ****? It would be the same if it was racially-motivated, anti-Semite, anti-Muslim, even anti-Catholic.

    You just don't like that it makes international headlines because you're a hateful bigot.


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    #408
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Why do you care so much that people who are attacked for being gay is making headlines?

    International headlines you mean. I don't believe in having a hierarchy and bias towards certain victims of crime and not others based on sexuality, and no evidence has been provided that the motive for the attack was the fact they were gay.
    Faugheen wrote: »
    You just don't like that it makes international headlines because you're a hateful bigot.

    Attacking me personally and calling me names instead of having any reasoned points, isn't very convincing.


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    #409
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Nobelium wrote: »
    International headlines you mean. I don't believe in having a hierarchy and bias towards certain victims of crime and not others based on sexuality, and no evidence has been provided that the motive for the attack was the fact they were gay.

    They were seen kissing, the little scumbags wanted them to do it again for their entertainment, then beat them after they refused.

    I don’t care what headlines they are. This is a couple who were minding their own business then attacked by some boys for not putting on a show.

    Why do you care that this is making international headlines? A gay couple was attacked?
    Nobelium wrote: »
    Attacking me personally and calling me names instead of having any reasoned points, isn't very convincing.

    Because you are a hate-filled bigot who has shown no compassion for the couple in this attack, just questioned whether it was homophobic and bitched and moaned that it’s making headlines.


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    #410
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nobelium wrote: »
    Example of an attack on a straight couple at the same level as this that made international news headlines ?

    Plenty of incidents make headlines in other countries

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/man-jailed-for-stabbing-ex-partner-in-neck-8wj9lfkj3


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/woman-accused-of-stabbing-attacked-another-with-a-pen-r5kbdvkdd


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/garda-needed-counselling-over-brutal-machete-murder-scene-ballincollig-cork-rbwrbb9xt

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patrick-nevin-admits-sex-attacks-on-women-he-met-via-tinder-885qq670k

    Their just some example from our nearest international neighbor of different types of crime stories that get reported

    Now knowing your posting style and problems with anyone arguing different from your own agenda, your not going to accept them, but hey that's the way the world works some crimes are reported in regional media, some national and some international.

    Also you posted crime stats earlier, but left out the following


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    #411
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Nobelium wrote: »
    International headlines you mean. I don't believe in having a hierarchy and bias towards certain victims of crime and not others based on sexuality, and no evidence has been provided that the motive for the attack was the fact they were gay.



    Attacking me personally and calling me names instead of having any reasoned points, isn't very convincing.




    Seriously, that's straight out crap.


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    #412
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Nobelium wrote: »
    You're the one refusing to answer.

    I provided stats.

    I don't have stats for specifically for public transport, but if you are trying to claim that public transport crime is so different to normal crime statistics, you are free to post them up.

    Key statistics from police recorded crimes in 2017 :

    57,600 rapes recorded by police in 2018 (157 per day)
    39,598 offences involving a knife or sharp instrument (108 per day)
    6,604 offences involving firearms - up from 5,864 in 2016 (18 per day)
    688 homicides (nearly 2 per day)

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8885961.html
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43905407


    All of them worse than this incident, and yet this one instantly makes international news headlines , so what's so rare, special and newsworthy about it exactly ?

    The point which you are desperately trying to avoid is worse crimes happen in the UK every single day, yet these victims don't make headline news, why ?

    You made the claim. The onus is on you. :D

    Thanks for conceding that you can’t back up that public transport statement. Was that so difficult?

    Who doesn’t know that murder is heinous? Does that mean lesser crimes can’t be highlighted? Muggings and assaults can be traumatising.

    The day Anders Breivik massacred those children, Amy Winehouse died. I felt sad about both, to differing degrees admittedly. But both affected me. Was I not allowed to feel sad about Amy because people had been murdered that day?


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    #413
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nobelium wrote: »
    International headlines you mean. I don't believe in having a hierarchy and bias towards certain victims of crime and not others based on sexuality, and no evidence has been provided that the motive for the attack was the fact they were gay.



    Attacking me personally and calling me names instead of having any reasoned points, isn't very convincing.

    Once more time for the cheap seats


    Detective Superintendent Andy Cox said: “This was a disgusting attack on two women who appear to have been picked out and targeted by a group of youths.

    "The suspects have made a number of homophobic comments towards the couple before throwing coins at them. When the women tried to reason with the group, the attack escalated to an assault.


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    #414
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    You’re partially right- it’s unfair to generalize all men as violent.

    However, and some men have real trouble accepting this, violent crime is predominantly a male thing.

    Most murder (of men and women) is committed by men. Most rape (of men and women) is submitted by men. Most serious assault is committed by men.

    And when I say most, I mean the vast majority.

    And as a society we need to tackle that. It’s not misogynistic to point out facts.

    It is misogynist to point out the facts. If I were to generalize women in such a way as the OP did I would be called a misogynist plain and simple.

    You hypocrites are going unchecked in our modern age; the cognitive dissonance must be tough to live with.


    Yes violent crime is a male thing, but that means that most victims of violent crime are male.
    Most people that are attacked are men and by vast majority, I mean vast majority.
    Most people that are murdered are men.
    Most of the people who save people on a daily basis are men.
    Most heroes are men, and I mean most.
    Most of workplace injuries are men.
    Most child maintenance paid by people who don't see their kids are men.
    Men contribute more in tax to society.
    Most of rapes are committed against men.

    Most of the people that are hypocrites in this thread are women.


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    #415
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Billy Mays wrote: »
    Because some crimes are more unusual than others. How hard is it to understand?

    There was a story all over the news a few weeks ago about some man getting a milkshake thrown at him outside a polling station. There was even a thread on here about it. It goes without saying that there were worst crimes committed elsewhere that day that didn't make the news. Were you in that thread moaning about the publicity that incident was getting? If not why weren't you?

    Ha! An excellent point.

    In the most recent ‘Milkshake’ thread, Nobelium has posted three times. None condoning the media attention on the milkshake attacks. And in the one that was started after the attack on Farage, Nobelium has 7 posts - none condoning the media attention given to the attack.

    I doff my hat to you, Sir.


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    #416
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    most convicts are male.

    most physicists are male.

    go figure.


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    #417
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Nobelium wrote: »
    So in other words, you can't find a single example of any assault on a heterosexual couple making international headlines, or are you tyring to claim heterosexual couples are never assaulted anywhere ?



    The milkshake stories so far have been reporting attacks regardless of the victims sexuality, or are they claimed homophobic attacks as well now ?

    I thought your concern was some lesser crimes getting disproportionate attention where others don’t. You’re all over the place.


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    #418
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    Kimsang wrote: »
    It is misogynist to point out the facts. If I were to generalize women in such a way as the OP did I would be called a misogynist plain and simple.

    You hypocrites are going unchecked in our modern age; the cognitive dissonance must be tough to live with.


    Yes violent crime is a male thing, but that means that most victims of violent crime are male.
    Most people that are attacked are men and by vast majority, I mean vast majority.
    Most people that are murdered are men.
    Most of the people who save people on a daily basis are men.
    Most heroes are men, and I mean most.
    Most of workplace injuries are men.
    Most child maintenance paid by people who don't see their kids are men.
    Men contribute more in tax to society.
    Most of rapes are committed against men.

    Most of the people that are hypocrites in this thread are women.

    I read back over the OP and she said - why do some men … ie like the men that did the attack.
    You seem to have read that she said all men or just men in general.


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    #419
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    i can picture a scenario in which a lad and his GF are on the bus and a group of scrotes sit around them saying "ah go on give her a smooch there" and generally harassing the couple culminating in them pouncing on them giving them a flurry of digs and grabbing the girl's bag and the lad's phone. Not headline news.
    Agreed. These kind of skangers will always try to start up a conversation, then picking on some personal characteristic, try to escalate it into a row.
    From the victims responses, they make their decision on whether to escalate into a full on attack, or just leave and try elsewhere. They are looking for fear and weakness.
    Ms Geymonat added that the gang of at least four men might have broken her nose during the ordeal, and stole a phone and bag from them before fleeing.
    Both women were taken to hospital for treatment to facial injuries, but have now been discharged.
    There's lots of angles the media could have chosen for this story...

    They could have gone with "2 women attacked and robbed by a group of young men".

    They could have gone with "foreigner and tourist attacked and robbed on London bus"

    They could have gone with "public transport now unsafe under Mayor Sadiq Khan"

    In the end they went with the homophobic angle, and it got a good reaction. So they'll be well pleased.
    Ms Geymonat added that the gang of at least four men might have broken her nose during the ordeal, and stole a phone and bag from them before fleeing.
    Both women were taken to hospital for treatment to facial injuries, but have now been discharged.


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    #420
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Blaming the mayor would be truly absurd. Probably why they didn’t go with that angle.


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    #421
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    Blaming the mayor would be truly absurd.
    Who's in charge of policing in London?
    Since January 2012, the Mayor of London is responsible for the governance of the Metropolitan Police through the Mayor's Office for Policing and Crime (MOPAC)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Police_Service#Governance


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