The Irish Ham wars

_Brian · 15-05-2019 11:13am

Oxter wrote: »

I read in the farming forum thst young cattle from restricted herds (tb) can only be sold to feed lots.

Most farms locked up with tb don’t shift cattle only in dire positions.
The vast majority feed on and when the herd gets a clear test the cattle are sold as normal.

I’ve no experience but I’d wonder if they get a fair price selling cattle into feedlots like that.

It’s a minority of farms this would affect.

_Brian · 15-05-2019 11:13am

kowloon wrote: »

Buy a lump of ham, honey and mustard, roast it. It's cheaper than packet ham and it's not much work to do.

Yea, we just cook hams from our own free range pigs and use that for lunches. Incredible feeding.

d8491prj5boyvg · 15-05-2019 11:22am

Oxter wrote: »

Where do i buy pasture fed beef?
All i see is Irish beef, Certified Angus and Organic.

No reference to any of it being pasture fed or fed in a shed on a feed lot

Thr same applies to milk coming from intensive dairy farms where the cows never see a field.

Almost all Irish beef is pasture fed.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 15-05-2019 12:40pm

Oxter wrote: »

I read in the farming forum thst young cattle from restricted herds (tb) can only be sold to feed lots.

Any stock from a TB restricted farm can only be sold to a factory or feedlot, yes.

But the definition of feedlot in Ireland is a farm where the only onward movement of cattle is to a factory and not to any other destination.

So a feedlot would, in most cases, comprise of farms with cattle at grass for most of their lives and housed for short periods prior to slaughter to ensure fat covers on the cattle meet the grading criteria.

And some feedlots would specialise in the purchase of short term keep cattle for slaughter such as bull beef but would be in a tiny minority.

_Brian wrote: »

Most farms locked up with tb don’t shift cattle only in dire positions.
The vast majority feed on and when the herd gets a clear test the cattle are sold as normal.

I’ve no experience but I’d wonder if they get a fair price selling cattle into feedlots like that.

It’s a minority of farms this would affect.

The answer is no. Selling into a small market of one or two buyers wouldn't be an ideal situation to maximise prices for stock.

From my own experience last year of having to sell to a feedlot, 50% of the normal stock value would be normal, depending on time to slaughter. Older cattle would command better prices than younger stock, 80% of the going rate for older fleshed stock down to 20% of normal price for younger cattle, if you're lucky.

dont bother · 15-05-2019 1:41pm

would you eat a chimp??
it has been said that Pigs are a lot more closely related to Humans than Chimps.

I suddenly went off pork or any pig products about a year ago. can't stomach the thoughts of it now. gross. absolutely disgusting. you may as well be a cannibal really.

CrankyHaus · 15-05-2019 1:52pm

I've had to make a few visits to abbatoirs. While cattle ones might put some people off their steaks they're nothing compared to the distinct smell in a slaughterhouse for pigs. That said I never saw anything unsanitary or concerning in either.

_Brian wrote: »

Problem in ireland is resentment that a local artisan producer charging 10-20% more for a better product, but joe bloggs doesnt want to see him get his "premium price" so wanders into tesco and buys the cheapest alternative that can be got, it reaembles the artisan product in name alone but joe bloggs is happy because its really, really cheap and still called ham.

Funnily enough the laxest food safety I've encountered in food production was a "gourmet" or "premium" producer that had zero access controls for its sausage line. You could literally walk in off the street.

In contrast anywhere with a contract to provide supermarket's "own-brand" products has to meet very rigourous standards. Like McDonalds (which similarly has hygiene controls miles above most independent restaurants) it may not be the best food ever but its extremely clean.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 15-05-2019 1:58pm

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I've had to make a few visits to abbatoirs. While cattle ones might put some people off their steaks they're nothing compared to the distinct smell in a slaughterhouse for pigs. That said I never saw anything unsanitary or concerning in either.

Smells like a decomposing human corpse.

_Brian · 15-05-2019 2:10pm

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I've had to make a few visits to abbatoirs. While cattle ones might put some people off their steaks they're nothing compared to the distinct smell in a slaughterhouse for pigs. That said I never saw anything unsanitary or concerning in either.

Funnily enough the laxest food safety I've encountered in food production was a "gourmet" or "premium" producer that had zero access controls for its sausage line. You could literally walk in off the street.

In contrast anywhere with a contract to provide supermarket's "own-brand" products has to meet very rigourous standards. Like McDonalds (which similarly has hygiene controls miles above most independent restaurants) it may not be the best food ever but its extremely clean.

Ahh there’s a tale about every food if ya want one, I worked maintenance in a premium chocolate factory in Navan and behind the scenes it was a kip with lads in the store room walking on bulk slabs of chocolate on the floor.

The abattoir where I get my pigs slaughtered is grand, yea but if a smell bit it’s a slaughterhouse, what do you expect, spotlessly clean though.

Personally I think that artisan producers have a great reputation in Ireland, they produce a premium product and it tells in the eating.

I’ll be making my own sausages before the end of the year myself.

Zubeneschamali · 15-05-2019 2:13pm

dont bother wrote: »

would you eat a chimp??
it has been said that Pigs are a lot more closely related to Humans than Chimps.

It may have been said, but it is 100% false.

15-05-2019 2:13pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Smells like a decomposing human corpse.

A burning, boiled decomposing corpse, since the animal has to pass through flames (to burn the hair off) and a tank of boiling water before reaching the men with the knives.

Sounds a bit like a episode of Gladiators.

_Brian · 15-05-2019 2:14pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Smells like a decomposing human corpse.

I think that’s OTT.
It smells like the inside of a pig.

Making food is a messy business, it’s not for everyone to see behind the scenes because not everyone has a stomach for what happens, that doesn’t mean it’s bad, it’s a sign that we have become separated from our food production.

_Brian · 15-05-2019 2:15pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

A burning, boiled decomposing corpse, since the animal has to pass through flames (to burn the hair off) and a tank of boiling water before reaching the men with the knives.

Sounds a bit like a episode of Gladiators.

The process is the process, it hasn’t changed much in a very long time, just more automated. Of course the pigs are dead at that stage.

15-05-2019 2:16pm

_Brian wrote: »

The process is the process, it hasn’t changed much in a very long time, just more automated. Of course the pigs are dead at that stage.

I know, I'm not complaining. I'm just saying it's a bit smelly.

MetzgerMeister · 15-05-2019 2:23pm

The first and last time I ever ate Brady's ham it tasted awful - like eating cold rubber bands and it had the same consistency.

I buy Denny's Deli style ham every so often but I look at the slices on top and bottom of the packs and pick the one with the least amount of fat/grizzle as I can't stand it. Same goes for rashers, I'll check them to see which medallions look best and buy those.

Rows Grower · 15-05-2019 2:24pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I know, I'm not complaining. I'm just saying it's a bit smelly.

Well I'll tell ya one thing, you're doing a damn fine job of pretending to.

_Brian · 15-05-2019 2:27pm

Society is headed for a terrible juncture as we become more and more removed from food production. What is happening is total control is being handed over to multinationals who’s drive is profit not good food, environment or animal welfare.

Small farms where animals and the environment are best cared for are going to the wall all the time because it’s costing a bit more to produce the food, between processors and consumers they don’t want to pay a fair price for food and so the massive feed lot style system edges closer and closer even here in Ireland.

Consumers should be voting with their shopping baskets, keeping away from highly processed foods that are laden with salt and fillers and choosing free range options.

Choose better people or the good food we enjoy will be gone and cheap nasty processed muck is you we will have.

15-05-2019 2:27pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

Well I'll tell ya one thing, you're doing a damn fine job of pretending to.

Eh?

I'm not complaining about the necessary way an abbatoir operates. There was a conversation about the smell, and I just had a mental flashback that I remember finding amusing (the Gladiator course comparison).

Love day out, find someone else to argue with pointlessly, it ain't me.

Muahahaha · 15-05-2019 2:28pm

_Brian wrote: »

Problem in ireland is resentment that a local artisan producer charging 10-20% more for a better product, but joe bloggs doesnt want to see him get his "premium price" so wanders into tesco and buys the cheapest alternative that can be got, it reaembles the artisan product in name alone but joe bloggs is happy because its really, really cheap and still called ham.

Doesnt that work the other way around too though? You have artisan producers who have no middlemen whatsoever selling at farmers markets in wealthy areas and basically ripping off people with more money than sense. Then the artisan sector as a whole gets a rep for being expensive so the mass market stay away.

Same goes for all these craft brewerys, they are brewing beer for 40 or 50c a pint and then in the pub you're expected to pay €7 to €8 a pint. Their spiel is that "we're not Diageo, we're your local brewery". But they don't compete on price, seems they think they should get a price premium just for being "local". Balls to that, imo.

The Nal · 15-05-2019 2:35pm

Buy and carve the ham yourself. Problem solved.

dont bother · 15-05-2019 2:55pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It may have been said, but it is 100% false.

who are you? lord of all knowledge. go way out of that.

they're more intelligent than dogs. that's enough for me!

DEFTLEFTHAND · 15-05-2019 3:30pm

_Brian wrote: »

I think that’s OTT.
It smells like the inside of a pig.

Making food is a messy business, it’s not for everyone to see behind the scenes because not everyone has a stomach for what happens, that doesn’t mean it’s bad, it’s a sign that we have become separated from our food production.

A pig carcass gives off a similar odour to a corpse.

Human meat is also said to taste somewhat like pig meat. We seem to have a lot in common with these beasts.

brightspark · 15-05-2019 3:47pm

"Long pig"

https://grammarist.com/archaic/long-pig/

RickDeckard · 15-05-2019 4:04pm

I find the cognitive dissonance inconceivably amazing when it comes to Pigs in Ireland.

We dont give a flying fuk about their welfare because they are ugly animals.

All the animal charities in Ireland for Cats and Dogs and Horses, rightly so, but when it comes to pigs , no one gives a sh1t.

The suffering endures by millions of these animals every second of every day in this country is barbaric.

Imagine if these were dog farms, for dog meat, the country would melt down with the righteous hand wringing.

The meat processing industry is the reason I do not eat meat.
I do not believe there is anything wrong with eating meat.

The industrialized suffering caused by the meat industry, particularly Pigs, is disgusting and immoral, and we will look back in a 100 years and go 'what were we doing?

I cant do much to stop this, but I can stop giving my money to Denny, Bradys and all the rest of them. Mini Empires built on suffering.

A long chat with a vet really made the penny drop on this.

If the pig farming was not so intensive and cruel , I'd probably eat it.
But with the way it is, it actually makes me mad.

Que all the ridicule now and crap jokes about Bacon....

dont bother · 15-05-2019 4:15pm

RickDeckard wrote: »

I find the cognitive dissonance inconceivably amazing when it comes to Pigs in Ireland.

We dont give a flying fuk about their welfare because they are ugly animals.

All the animal charities in Ireland for Cats and Dogs and Horses, rightly so, but when it comes to pigs , no one gives a sh1t.

The suffering endures by millions of these animals every second of every day in this country is barbaric.

Imagine if these were dog farms, for dog meat, the country would melt down with the righteous hand wringing.

The meat processing industry is the reason I do not eat meat.
I do not believe there is anything wrong with eating meat.

The industrialized suffering caused by the meat industry, particularly Pigs, is disgusting and immoral, and we will look back in a 100 years and go 'what were we doing?

I cant do much to stop this, but I can stop giving my money to Denny, Bradys and all the rest of them. Mini Empires built on suffering.

A long chat with a vet really made the penny drop on this.

If the pig farming was not so intensive and cruel , I'd probably eat it.
But with the way it is, it actually makes me mad.

Que all the ridicule now and crap jokes about Bacon....

absolutely 100% agree.
it's disgusting.
i happen to think that pigs are just as cute as dogs or cats.
they are more intelligent than the most intelligent dog.

you see gobsh!tes protesting dog-eating in places like china etc... from here, like, what about the absolute scummery of being so GREEDY that you turn a blind eye to the suffering of these intelligent animals?

would you eat a dolphin, a whale? No most likely not.

plus, that fvckin ugly eejit from the brady ad's give me a headache. what a pr!ck.

they should tax the fvck out of pork products in this country as much as they do cigarettes.

but again, for the most part, irish people love turning a blind eye to these things as long as they can still have what they want.

so, really it's irish people and their greed and glutony that's the real problem.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 15-05-2019 4:20pm

dont bother wrote: »

absolutely 100% agree.
it's disgusting.
i happen to think that pigs are just as cute as dogs or cats.
they are more intelligent than the most intelligent dog.

you see gobsh!tes protesting dog-eating in places like china etc... from here, like, what about the absolute scummery of being so GREEDY that you turn a blind eye to the suffering of these intelligent animals?

would you eat a dolphin, a whale? No most likely not.

plus, that fvckin ugly eejit from the brady ad's give me a headache. what a pr!ck.

they should tax the fvck out of pork products in this country as much as they do cigarettes.

but again, for the most part, irish people love turning a blind eye to these things as long as they can still have what they want.

so, really it's irish people and their greed and glutony that's the real problem.

It's a cultural thing more than anything. Bacon and other pork products have been popular here for generations.

The Full Irish Breakfast and Ulster Fry are famous around the world.

gozunda · 15-05-2019 4:25pm

Yup I see the preachers have arrived. Fair play lads

only the stench of sanctimonious bs is getting very strong. If you dont like meat fine - no one's making you eat it. It's not like people are slapping the veggie burgers out of your hand or anything. So if ye can cut the hyperbole about cute / ugly monkies, dogs and cannibalism (sic) down a bit that would be great. Personally I reckon pigs are very handsome animals. I eat pork and bacon and buy free range from my local butcher when I'm not raising my own. But there we go.

dont bother · 15-05-2019 4:33pm

gozunda wrote: »

Yup I see the preachers have arrived. Fair play lads only the stench of sanctimonious bs is getting very strong. If you dont like meat fine - no one's making you eat it. It's not like people are slapping the veggie burgers out of your hand or anything. So if ye can cut the hyperbole about cute / ugly monkies, dogs and cannibalism (sic) down that would be great. Personally I reckon pigs are very handsome animals. I eat pork and bacon and buy free range from my local butcher when I'm not raising my own. But there we go.

well fair enough, and arent you "great", but you're also ONE person who does it.
do you think the mad GAA freckle brigade give a flying sh!te where their Hang comes from? they dont.

they're the real pigs

gozunda · 15-05-2019 4:39pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

A pig carcass gives off a similar odour to a corpse.

I can reliably tell you that a freshly killed pig smells nothing like corpse.

Now leave any animal or human to decompose and they will start to give of cavadavrine and start to stink. But even vegetables stink when they rot. Ever smell decomposing courgettes? Absolutely disgusting believe it or not.

Human meat is also said to taste somewhat like pig meat. We seem to have a lot in common with these beasts.

A bit of proselytising going on DLH there by any chance? Does it? And you know that because you snack on humans? Yes we've a lot in common with other animals. That's because we are animals. And like many other animals humans eat meat as part of an omnivorous diet.
But no canabilism isn't recommended. Most animals dont eat their own kind. Kinda makes sense.

Some people seem to have some serious problems with humans eating a perfectly normal diet around here? I wonder why that is? :rolleyes:

gozunda · 15-05-2019 4:48pm

dont bother wrote: »

well fair enough, and arent you "great", but you're also ONE person who does it. do you think the mad GAA freckle brigade give a flying sh!te where their Hang comes from? they dont. they're the real pigs

Nope. Read the thread. Not just me and people can chose themselves where they want to buy their pork. I recommend free range and organic where possible.

You seem very angry - why is that? The "Mad GAA freckle brigade / pigs" ???? I've heard it all now. Cultural racism and hate speech is alive and well apparently...

Btw did you ever hear of the famous Dublin dish called Coddle? It's made with bacon and sausages btw - but dont let that stop you calling people outside Dublin "culchies" and "culchie scum" ... :rolleyes:

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-drink/there-are-hundreds-of-coddle-recipes-but-mine-is-the-true-dublin-one-1.1596150

RickDeckard · 15-05-2019 4:54pm

gozunda wrote: »

Yup I see the preachers have arrived. Fair play lads only the stench of sanctimonious bs is getting very strong. If you dont like meat fine - no one's making you eat it. It's not like people are slapping the veggie burgers out of your hand or anything. So if ye can cut the hyperbole about cute / ugly monkies, dogs and cannibalism (sic) down that would be great. Personally I reckon pigs are very handsome animals. I eat pork and bacon and buy free range from my local butcher when I'm not raising my own. But there we go.

I presume you are referring to my post?
So you build a straw man and knock it down, well done big fella.

Read this slowly:

I do not think there is any problem eating pigs, or eating any animal for that matter, its all the same in the end, everything eats everything else on this planet, that is the way it is.
BUT
I have a massive problem with the way meat is produced industrially, the Pig industry in Ireland being a prime example.
Intensive Pig farming is inherently cruel and barbaric, if you deny this, then you are in denial or a fool.

I've worked in Meat Factories and Meat Processing when I was a lad, I know exactly what happens inside the walls.

If you intend to reply to my post, reply to the content of my post, not what you presume me to have said.

gozunda · 15-05-2019 5:04pm

RickDeckard wrote: »

I presume you are referring to my post?So you build a straw man and knock it down, well done big fella.Read this slowly:I do not think there is any problem eating pigs, or eating any animal for that matter, its all the same in the end, everything eats everything else on this planet, that is the way it is.BUT I have a massive problem with the way meat is produced industrially, the Pig industry in Ireland being a prime example. Intensive Pig farming is inherently cruel and barbaric, if you deny this, then you are in denial or a fool.I've worked in Meat Factories and Meat Processing when I was a lad, I know exactly what happens inside the walls.If you intend to reply to my post, reply to the content of my post, not what you presume me to have said.

Lol. Finished? Nope I was referring to the whole raft of angry plant activist language that's turned up on queue. But yeah the posts reads like the usual text book provegie tirade "cognitive dissonance" "dog thou" blah blah blah. This stuff like regurgitated vomit these days - it's all over the place and as obvious as ****e ...

And If you bother to read this thread you would have noticed I and many others have detailed not supporting Industrial style pork production But there you go. Dont let that stop you ...

15-05-2019 5:06pm

Serrano, Iberico and Parma ham are examples of REAL ham, dried leg of pig hung from the charcuterie counter ceiling. And with the “caviar” variant of Pata Negra then some rustic farmer in the mountains above the Costa feel Sol will have hand-reared his couple of free range acorn-eating pigs. ,

EmmetSpiceland · 15-05-2019 5:15pm

gozunda wrote: »

Yup I see the preachers have arrived. Fair play lads only the stench of sanctimonious bs is getting very strong. If you dont like meat fine - no one's making you eat it. It's not like people are slapping the veggie burgers out of your hand or anything. So if ye can cut the hyperbole about cute / ugly monkies, dogs and cannibalism (sic) down that would be great. Personally I reckon pigs are very handsome animals. I eat pork and bacon and buy free range from my local butcher when I'm not raising my own. But there we go.

You’re confusing the issue now, hombre.

No one has any problem with the quality of meat coming off the fatted calf or suckling pig from the farm down the road, the issue is with the quality of the product, I won’t even flatter it by saying “meat”, in the packet ham sold for peanuts in the supermarket.

Everyone is entitled to eat whatever animal products they like but the marketing of the lowest grade stuff is downright despicable.

dont bother · 15-05-2019 5:22pm

gozunda wrote: »

Nope. Read the thread. Not just me and people can chose themselves where they want to buy their pork. I recommend free range and organic where possible.

You seem very angry - why is that? The "Mad GAA freckle brigade / pigs" ???? I've heard it all now. Cultural racism and hate speech is alive and well apparently...

Btw did you ever hear of the famous Dublin dish called Coddle? It's made with bacon and sausages btw - but dont let that stop you calling people outside Dublin "culchies" and "culchie scum" ... :rolleyes:

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-drink/there-are-hundreds-of-coddle-recipes-but-mine-is-the-true-dublin-one-1.1596150

what are you a psychic? why do you think i'm angry? or is that just a pathetic attempt at making me out to be irrational?

i didnt say culchie or culchie scum once !? so you are just making things up now.

anyway, my point is, you said people have a choice to get "good" meat, but other people have pointed out that that's usually only a marketing gimmick, there is no such thing as it being in any way humane or "good" if these intelligent animals continue to be butchered en masse simply to feed greedy people who could easily go without it.

theres' a reason that pork is said to be bad for you - plenty of them, a lot of the same reasons that are given about why consuming human flesh is bad for you.

pigs are extremely intelligent and form very close bonds with their siblings. it is true that when a pig is being slaughtered and other pigs hear it squealing, there is panic, as they know fine well that they're next.

i can safely say that pigs are more intelligent than some people on this thread.

Brady's ham. fvck off.

RickDeckard · 15-05-2019 5:25pm

gozunda wrote: »

Lol. Finished? Nope I was referring to the whole raft of angry plant activist language that's turned up on queue. But yeah the posts reads like the usual text book provegie tirade "cognitive dissonance" "dog thou" blah blah blah. This stuff like regurgitated vomit these days - it's all over the place and as obvious as ****e ...

And If you bother to read this thread you would have noticed I and many others have detailed not supporting Industrial style pork production But there you go. Dont let that stop you ...

You may not like the language, but Congnative Dissonance is exactly what is happening.
tbh, Im not sure what your point is.

_Brian · 15-05-2019 5:27pm

Someone above said pigs live in suffering every day...

I think thats a wayyy over the top exageration, yea they don't roam and root and I think that is a pity, but we shouldnt loose the run of ourselves either. Pigs like many farmed animals only thrive when happy and healthy..

Would I like us to trnasition to more outdoor rearing, damn sure I would, but I'm not going to preqach down at intensive farmers either..

If consumers want change they don't have to come on the internet going on and on at farmers, vote with your shopping basket.. Buy from artisan meat outlets that don't use industrial methods, that pushes more of that sort of production and less industrial via demand..

Consumers get the food they deserve based on their choices, continue to choose the cheapest hyper processed crap and more of same is produced to meet your demands... Buy better quality products more ethically produced and that market expands...

Its like the choir calling for glyphosate and other chemicals to be banned, fine, lets all go organic, I've no problem paying more for my food, but will joe soap be happy with his organic cornflakes after their 50% increase in price..

gozunda · 15-05-2019 6:07pm

dont bother wrote: »

what are you a psychic? why do you think i'm angry? or is that just a pathetic attempt at making me out to be irrational? i didnt say culchie or culchie scum once !? so you are just making things up now.
anyway, my point is, you said people have a choice to get "good" meat, but other people have pointed out that that's usually only a marketing gimmick, there is no such thing as it being in any way humane or "good" if these intelligent animals continue to be butchered en masse simply to feed greedy people who could easily go without it. theres' a reason that pork is said to be bad for you - plenty of them, a lot of the same reasons that are given about why consuming human flesh is bad for you. pigs are extremely intelligent and form very close bonds with their siblings. it is true that when a pig is being slaughtered and other pigs hear it squealing, there is panic, as they know fine well that they're next. i can safely say that pigs are more intelligent than some people on this thread.
Brady's ham. fvck off.

Well the reference to your country brethren as 'Mad GAA freckle brigade / pigs " would indeed indicate some Inherent anger tbh. Irrational? The reference to 'culchie scum' comes from a previous post of yours. Nice...

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057926873/1/#post108563931.

Btw thanks for clarifying you're position. It's evident that you do not care about improving animal welfare and supporting better standards. It's just another tirade telling people what they shoud eat and using the usual hyperbole and stupid bs human flesh blah blah bs to ram home the the usual provegie message. Thing is - the same rubbish is on every vegie activist / extremist website on the internet. Dont like that being pointed out? Well that's tough. But there you go.

gozunda · 15-05-2019 6:17pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

You’re confusing the issue now, hombre.
No one has any problem with the quality of meat coming off the fatted calf or suckling pig from the farm down the road, the issue is with the quality of the product, I won’t even flatter it by saying “meat”, in the packet ham sold for peanuts in the supermarket.
Everyone is entitled to eat whatever animal products they like but the marketing of the lowest grade stuff is downright despicable.

Nope - dont think so miguel. The issue is - there is a choice. And people can support good standards of welfare - it's not that difficult. But yeah as I commented to your posts previously ...

gozunda wrote: »

You seem to have a thing for words like anuses bungholes and slurry in your comments. Perhaps you'd be better attacking the companies directly rather than throwing random ****e and seeing where it comes down?

You then accused others of having shares in the industry et as if all criticism of your overhyped hyperbole was somehow rooted in financial interest. :rolleyes: And nope I have no financial or other interest in pig farming. I do however support those who chose better welfare standards. But you know that already.

15-05-2019 6:20pm

_Brian wrote: »

Someone above said pigs live in suffering every day...

I think thats a wayyy over the top exageration, yea they don't roam and root and I think that is a pity, but we shouldnt loose the run of ourselves either. Pigs like many farmed animals only thrive when happy and healthy..

I don't think anybody has said that. But pigs have it worse than any other Irish livestock, with the exception of live-export cattle, probably.

But the aesthetics of a pig-farm are the least of their worries. The biggest problems with intensive pig-farming relate to human public health (there is some evidence that respiratory disease is more prevalent in Irish pigs than elsewhere in Europe) and animal health and cruelty: especially things like routine illegal tail-cauterization and tooth clipping (without anaesthetic).

Veterinary Ireland isn't in the habit of criticising farmers, but they have in the past expressed serious concerns about welfare in the pig industry.

Not that pig-farmers care much about vets anyway. There is 1 vet serving the pig industry for every 50,000 sows in this country. It isn't farming as we know it, it's factory production.

gozunda · 15-05-2019 6:34pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't think anybody has said that. But pigs have it worse than any other Irish livestock, with the exception of live-export cattle, probably. But the aesthetics of a pig-farm are the least of their worries. The biggest problems with intensive pig-farming relate to human public health (there is some evidence that respiratory disease is more prevalent in Irish pigs than elsewhere in Europe) and animal health and cruelty: especially things like routine illegal tail-cauterization and tooth clipping (without anaesthetic). Veterinary Ireland isn't in the habit of criticising farmers, but they have in the past expressed serious concerns about welfare in the pig industry. Not that pig-farmers care much about vets anyway. There is 1 vet serving the pig industry for every 50,000 sows in this country. It isn't farming as we know it, it's factory production.

Ok thats a hell of lot of assumptions and suppositions tbh. As I said I support free range pig production. However exactly what are you getting at with regard to "human public health (there is some evidence that respiratory disease is more prevalent in Irish pigs than elsewhere in Europe)

Any pig farm I visited (and that includes some intensive ones) - had very very high standards of bio security - for the very reasons you're alleging. You are also critical of "veterinary ireland" and all farmers but at the same time claim to have got that information on pig production from the same source? Then the coup de grace that you somehow know for a fact that all pig farmers don't care much "about vets anyway". .

Personally I would bring in only outdoor rearing and increased prices. However your thread is starting a lot to sound more like a one man tirade against the entire pig meat industy than anything else.

This kinda proves that point tbh.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

A burning, boiled decomposing corpse, since the animal has to pass through flames (to burn the hair off) and a tank of boiling water before reaching the men with the knives. Sounds a bit like a episode of Gladiators.

From that little piece - I somehow reckon you dont like pork whether it's free range organic or even if it was reared by the arch angel Michael...

15-05-2019 6:40pm

gozunda wrote: »

Ok thats a hell of lot of assumptions and suppositions tbh. As I said I support free range pig production. However exactly what are you getting at with regard to "human public health (there is some evidence that respiratory disease is more prevalent in Irish pigs than elsewhere in Europe)

Any pig farm I visited (and that includes some intensive ones) - had very very high standards of bio security - for the very reasons you're alleging. You are also critical of "veterinary ireland" and all farmers but at the same time claim to have got t
information on pig production from the same source? Then the coup de grace that you somehow know for a fact that all pig farmers care nothing "about vets anyway". .

Personally I would bring in only outdoor rearing and increased prices. However your thread is starting a lot to sound more like a one man tirade against the entire pig meat industy than anything else.

Jesus. Where to start with this. You're posting hysterically here this evening dude, chill out a bit.

1. Yes there is evidence that suggests Irish pig farms encounter more prevalent respiratory infections than our European equivalents. 'Relationship between tail lesions and lung health in slaughter pigs. Prev Vet Med. 2016, May 1; 127:21

2. I am not critical -- even slightly -- of Veterinary Ireland. I think they have been very vocal about their concerns about pig farming, and rightly so.

3. Go and have a lie-down will you? You're all over the place. You're replying to everyone quicker than, it seems, you can even read these posts.

15-05-2019 6:42pm

https://www.enriquetomas.com/es/blog/en/glosario/the-iberian-pig/

These pigs mostly have a good life and taste great too.

I once stayed on a great organic pig farm in a neighbouring county not far from Carlow town. He hails his own humanely & does his own butchery. Turns up at likes of Bloom to sell his great produce.

gozunda · 15-05-2019 6:50pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Jesus. Where to start with this. You're posting hysterically here this evening dude, chill out a bit.1. Yes there is evidence that suggests Irish pig farms encounter more prevalent respiratory infections than our European equivalents. 'Relationship between tail lesions and lung health in slaughter pigs. Prev Vet Med. 2016, May 1; 127:21

Lol. I'm not the poster losing my frillies over every big pig producer in the country tbh.

You conflated a single paper on pig tail lesions and lung health with a universal risk to human health. That is not only disingenuous but makes for a very poor support to what's coming across as a personal dislike of pork etc

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

2. I am not critical -- even slightly -- of Veterinary
Ireland. I think they have been very vocal about their concerns about pig farming, and rightly so.

The allegation that the vets are somehow in cahoots with the farmers of Ireland is at best puerile tbh

"Veterinary Ireland isn't in the habit of criticising farmers,"

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

3. Go and have a lie-down will you? You're all over the place. You're replying to everyone quicker than, it seems, you can even read these posts.

I could write the exact same comment about the multitude of rambling and non factual presumptions you've repeated in the thread. But I wont. There's no need - it's already evident. Thanks.

15-05-2019 6:52pm

gozunda wrote: »

You conflated a single paper on pig tail lesions and lung health with a universal risk to human health. That is not only disigenius but makes for a very poor support to your personal dislike of pork etc

Lay off the vino.

Then maybe read that paper. Or don't, whatever.

gozunda · 15-05-2019 6:57pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Lay off the vino.

Then maybe read that paper. Or don't, whatever.

Hate to disappoint but no vino or anything else. My apologies for pointing out the obvious - but there you go.

EmmetSpiceland · 15-05-2019 7:11pm

gozunda wrote: »

Nope - dont think so lol. The issue is - there is a choice. And people can support good standards of welfare - it's not that difficult. But yeah as I commented to your posts previously ...

You then accused others of having shares in the industry et as if all criticism of your overhyped hyperbole was somehow rooted in financial interest. :rolleyes: And nope I have no financial or other interest in pig farming. I do however support those who chose better welfare standards. But you know that already.

Settle down, Beavis.

We’re talking about cheap packet ham here, not some sort of “waygu” style of pig rearing.

You can’t possibly defend the standard of pork in the packets of Denny, Brady’s, or whatever shillelagh name Lidl or Aldi give their stuff.

For someone who claims to have no “skin in the game” you seem to be getting incredibly “butthurt” over it.

Muahahaha · 15-05-2019 7:36pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

in Irish pigs than elsewhere in Europe) and animal health and cruelty: especially things like routine illegal tail-cauterization and tooth clipping (without anaesthetic).

Whats the purpose of cutting their tails and pulling their teeth? And who does this, a vet?

Not that pig-farmers care much about vets anyway. There is 1 vet serving the pig industry for every 50,000 sows in this country. It isn't farming as we know it, it's factory production.

Is the one vet for 50,000 figure true? Like how long would it take a vet to check and do tests on 50,000 animals? Seems impossible.

gozunda · 15-05-2019 7:42pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Settle down, Beavis. We’re talking about cheap packet ham here, not some sort of “waygu” style of pig rearing.You can’t possibly defend the standard of pork in the packets of Denny, Brady’s, or whatever shillelagh name Lidl or Aldi give their stuff.For someone who claims to have no “skin in the game” you seem to be getting incredibly “butthurt” over it.

No worries at all buthead

. The thing is the hyperbole hereabouts has gone way way further than any criticism of a 'packet' of ham. We are now being cojoined with the mysteries of meat as an evil philosophy. It's so bleeding obvious that the kid in the pram could spot it a mile off. Don't think anyone likes bs tbh. But there you go.

As I clearly stated I and afaik a bunch of others on the thread support free range and/ or organic pig farming. I dont see anyone supporting poor animal welfare tbh. I do see people being critical of some of the more extreme hyperbole being pushed as gospel. And unlike the myopic choice offered - the thing is people dont have to only chose between the really crap products or abstain from unholy eating; they can and do chose better quality produce and support good standards of welfare.

Ps. Thanks for the additional "butthurt" thing - I was right -but hey no bother.

gozunda · 15-05-2019 7:54pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.enriquetomas.com/es/blog/en/glosario/the-iberian-pig/

These pigs mostly have a good life and taste great too.

I once stayed on a great organic pig farm in a neighbouring county not far from Carlow town. He hails his own humanely & does his own butchery. Turns up at likes of Bloom to sell his great produce.

Were they Iberian pigs on the farm you stayed at? Did they get fed arcorns by any chance? That type extensive pig rearing is growing. It needs more people to support it imo.

Yer man Nevan MaGuire atm on RTE tasting Iberian pig in Spain

15-05-2019 8:27pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Whats the purpose of cutting their tails and pulling their teeth? And who does this, a vet?

No, on the intensive farms, farm hands do it. I don't think even a defender of the intensive pig farms would claim that it's vets who are doing this work.

For this reason, it's also completely laughable, and again, impractical, to suggest that anaesthetic is used.

Tail-cutting is done to prevent other pigs biting tails, and teeth-cutting is done to prevent the piglets damaging a sow's teats.

Is the one vet for 50,000 figure true? Like how long would it take a vet to check and do tests on 50,000 animals? Seems impossible.

That is Veterinary Ireland's figure. There are only a handful of pig vets in the country. It's a tiny speciality. There are probably more exotic specialists than pig specialists.

Vets don't routinely treat individual pigs on these farms,at least not in the way that they do treat individual cattle or other domesticated large animals. They treat animals at the herd level. Tommy the pigman with 5,000 pigs on his farm isn't going to call the vet because one piglet has a hernia. It just doesn't happen, at least not on the massive industrial farms

The Irish Ham wars

Comments