Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

billy few mates · 25-10-2020 1:19pm

kona wrote: »

Its no doubt within the abilities of the staff, however its not within the current scope of the aer lingus 145 approval if the iaa website is accurate.
Absoloutley massive modifications involved which id say is why theres only a small amount of companies offering it, experience is everything with this type of work..
It would be a incredible descision if they did indeed decided to branch out into this work and as you say the rewards are there and the business certainly is.

Conversions are normally done by Part 145 organizations with Part 21 approval, it's not a whole new approval it's an extension of existing approvals.
Yes there'll be some additional 'tooling up' required plus a ramping up of personnel with experience and key skills in this area but a lot of the people with this particular skill set would probably also have lost their jobs as a result of this crisis so could well be available.

kona · 25-10-2020 2:15pm

billy few mates wrote: »

Conversions are normally done by Part 145 organizations with Part 21 approval, it's not a whole new approval it's an extension of existing approvals.
Yes there'll be some additional 'tooling up' required plus a ramping up of personnel with experience and key skills in this area but a lot of the people with this particular skill set would probably also have lost their jobs as a result of this crisis so could well be available.

The mod would be done by a 145 with the relevant approval, a part 21 would issue the stc for the mod, they dont have to be the same company.
Its not as simple as just getting a extension , theres many approvals that fall under the 145 title, not all as simple as others. Then you have 145 split between line and base maintenance. Calling it a simple extension to a 145 approval isnt doing the scope of the job justice.

A p2f conversion would require absoloutley massive planning to even think about applying for a approval,
Aer lingus doesnt even have a full base maintenance approval in the same way as lufthansa, DAL or even Atlantic in shannon to begin with. Thats why I reckon it would be a incredible descision to get into such work for Aer Lingus, however as you say it would certainly make money if done right.

kona · 25-10-2020 2:22pm

billy few mates wrote: »

If they're due a repaint as part of the maintenance program then you don't really have a choice.
It's often a return condition in the lease agreement that an aircraft is returned painted all white, in cases where a repaint falls due it might make more sense to paint them white until they decide the long-term plan for the aircraft. It should be easy enough to add the livery markings afterwards if they decide they're going to keep them in service.

Im not sure what the mpd states for paint, but i dont think many of the Aer lingus aircraft have the paint hanging off them, once theres no rivets or bare metal drive it on and shelve the program.
End of lease requirements are usually budgeted in and as you say they are going off the books.
Repainting a aircraft just to change its colour when you are trying to save cash is pretty idiotic.

mr.anonymous · 27-10-2020 8:52pm

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/mccarthy-enters-fray-for-aer-lingus-regional-contract-39652992.html

Dublin Aerospace CEO establishing new airline Emerald Airlines, which is expected to join bid for Aer Lingus Regional contract

Jack1985 · 28-10-2020 6:09pm

EI suspending 10 routes and cutting frequencies on all other routes from Monday 16/11 for a month initially. Subject to change.

Suspensions
DUB-ACE
DUB-AGP
DUB-BER
DUB-BRU
DUB-DUS
DUB-FCO
DUB-HAM
DUB-LIN
DUB-MUC
ORK-AMS

Reduced frequency*
DUB-AMS (8pw to 5pw)
DUB-BHX (8pw to 5pw)
DUB-CDG (8pw to 5pw)
DUB-LHR (26pw to 20pw)
DUB-MAN (9pw to 5pw)
BHD-LHR (18pw to 10pw)
ORK-LHR (9pw to 3pw)

*From pre-planned Nov 2020 schedule.

Services to BOS (7pw), JFK (7pw) and ORD (7pw) will be maintained as planned.

Cork Airport will have just 3 commercial weekly flights from Irish airlines from mid-Nov, both Knock and Shannon Airports will have no commercial flights for the first time since 1945 or the latter since opening in 1985.

Avoation1091 · 28-10-2020 6:23pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

EI suspending 10 routes and cutting frequencies on all other routes from Monday 16/11 for a month initially. Subject to change.

Suspensions
DUB-ACE
DUB-AGP
DUB-BER
DUB-BRU
DUB-DUS
DUB-FCO
DUB-HAM
DUB-LIN
DUB-MUC
ORK-AMS

Reduced frequency*
DUB-AMS (8pw to 5pw)
DUB-BHX (8pw to 5pw)
DUB-CDG (8pw to 5pw)
DUB-LHR (26pw to 20pw)
DUB-MAN (9pw to 5pw)
BHD-LHR (18pw to 10pw)
ORK-LHR (9pw to 3pw)

*From pre-planned Nov 2020 schedule.

Services to BOS (7pw), JFK (7pw) and ORD (7pw) will be maintained as planned.

Cork Airport will have just 3 commercial weekly flights from Irish airlines from mid-Nov, both Knock and Shannon Airports will have no commercial flights for the first time since 1945 or the latter since opening in 1985.

Very bleak winter ahead to say the least. The Govt are killing the Aviation Industry. I feel for everyone with a job in Aviation. The Govt havent been anyhelp at all.

Aer Lingus and Ryanair have clearly made there case and no movement from Ryan and co.

marno21 · 28-10-2020 7:05pm

ORK-LHR managed 5pw during the last lockdown. 3pw along with whatever KLM can manage as well. Bleak as it gets.

davebuck · 28-10-2020 10:06pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

EI suspending 10 routes and cutting frequencies on all other routes from Monday 16/11 for a month initially. Subject to change.

Suspensions
DUB-ACE
DUB-AGP
DUB-BER
DUB-BRU
DUB-DUS
DUB-FCO
DUB-HAM
DUB-LIN
DUB-MUC
ORK-AMS

Reduced frequency*
DUB-AMS (8pw to 5pw)
DUB-BHX (8pw to 5pw)
DUB-CDG (8pw to 5pw)
DUB-LHR (26pw to 20pw)
DUB-MAN (9pw to 5pw)
BHD-LHR (18pw to 10pw)
ORK-LHR (9pw to 3pw)

*From pre-planned Nov 2020 schedule.

Services to BOS (7pw), JFK (7pw) and ORD (7pw) will be maintained as planned.

Cork Airport will have just 3 commercial weekly flights from Irish airlines from mid-Nov, both Knock and Shannon Airports will have no commercial flights for the first time since 1945 or the latter since opening in 1985.

The lack of concern and the silence from the government is unbelievable to all the people employed in aviation affected by the current policy, not that the well paid in Nphet are worried either..... they won't be affected by any downturn.

duskyjoe · 29-10-2020 3:21am

davebuck wrote: »

The lack of concern and the silence from the government is unbelievable to all the people employed in aviation affected by the current policy, not that the well paid in Nphet are worried either..... they won't be affected by any downturn.

It’s frightening.... I wish I could fast play the button to next next March and see where we all are but between then and now it’s carnage for aviation. No airline imo no matter how large or how cash rich they are can cope with this pandemic tsunami. The Irish governments public position re aviation has been at best appalling. This pandemic will end but whose standing when it ends is all our concerns.

California Dreamer · 29-10-2020 7:13am

duskyjoe wrote: »

It’s frightening.... I wish I could fast play the button to next next March and see where we all are but between then and now it’s carnage for aviation. No airline imo no matter how large or how cash rich they are can cope with this pandemic tsunami. The Irish governments public position re aviation has been at best appalling. This pandemic will end but whose standing when it ends is all our concerns.

March 2021? Gotta love your optimism!!!

goingnowhere · 29-10-2020 7:26am

Germany will basically shutdown for 4 weeks so explains EI's shutdown of all DE routes.

2 weeks notice is of the change is to avoid EC261 as it is cheaper to fly than to cancelled.

trellheim · 30-10-2020 1:53pm

FRA is not on that list is that an oversight or are they still going there

Jack1985 · 30-10-2020 2:12pm

trellheim wrote: »

FRA is not on that list is that an oversight or are they still going there

Aer Lingus haven't operated to FRA since 03/04/20. Any destinations that EI previously flew to that were not on that list are suspended.

goingnowhere · 30-10-2020 5:49pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

Aer Lingus haven't operated to FRA since 03/04/20. Any destinations that EI previously flew to that were not on that list are suspended.

FRA was left to LH

EI opted for DUS (much nicer and cheaper airport to fly out of) which is same time really if you are going to Bonn/Koln

mikel97 · 30-10-2020 6:21pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

FRA was left to LH

EI opted for DUS (much nicer and cheaper airport to fly out of) which is same time really if you are going to Bonn/Koln

And hopefully Eurowings will restart the Koln which was a great cheap service from the Dublin

Jack1985 · 30-10-2020 6:55pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

FRA was left to LH

EI opted for DUS (much nicer and cheaper airport to fly out of) which is same time really if you are going to Bonn/Koln

It's not a case of airlines leaving market share to anyone, it's the realities of waying up demand and where to deploy assets.

From EI’s perspective, there are lines of flying to the US that were particularly busy for FRA flights including SEA/SFO/YYZ - When you are dealing with floored demand it would make little sense to resume a route that has lost outright an aspect of its previous demand.

2021 will be a year of fighting to retain market share for EI when it becomes realistic to resume increased levels of operation, IAG are doing their best to keep it within the Group as previously demonstrated with the planned NA 21 schedule. Continental Europe and the UK are the backbone of the Long-Haul operation, EI can’t afford to lose it or gift it to anyone.

duskyjoe · 30-10-2020 6:57pm

California Dreamer wrote: »

March 2021? Gotta love your optimism!!!

I hear ya

Avoation1091 · 31-10-2020 8:42pm

EI-DAA spotted in CQM.

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9903635

EI-GEY up close

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9907301

EI-CPG

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9903211

EI-EIK also snapped.

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9899490

JW7 · 02-11-2020 3:15pm

Anyone know why there was a flight to Seattle this morning, PPE?

duskyjoe · 02-11-2020 3:21pm

JW7 wrote: »

Anyone know why there was a flight to Seattle this morning, PPE?

Yes. Not PPE.

goingnowhere · 02-11-2020 3:48pm

EI9053 looks to be a freight flight to SEA. 9 prefix for freight, 053 is the 2020 timetabled flight number to SEA.

Once they land in SEA we can figure it out if they park at the north end its freight

duskyjoe · 02-11-2020 3:51pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

EI9053 looks to be a freight flight to SEA. 9 prefix for freight, 053 is the 2020 timetabled flight number to SEA.

Once they land in SEA we can figure it out if they park at the north end its freight

Its freight - as I said above .

Duff · 02-11-2020 6:10pm

This might have been answered in this thread already, but can't seem to find it so apologies if so. I'm thinking of booking return flights to JFK for June next year with the hopes that things might have settled a bit by then. If they haven't, do Aer Lingus offer a refund or anything if you can't take the flight for Covid-related reasons?

Thanks.

Tenger · 02-11-2020 7:26pm

Duff wrote: »

This might have been answered in this thread already, but can't seem to find it so apologies if so. I'm thinking of booking return flights to JFK for June next year with the hopes that things might have settled a bit by then. If they haven't, do Aer Lingus offer a refund or anything if you can't take the flight for Covid-related reasons?

Thanks.

Can't be 100% but did see an article 3-4 days ago saying EI were encouraging 2021 bookings by offering free change of dates.

Foggy43 · 02-11-2020 7:45pm

Tenger wrote: »

Can't be 100% but did see an article 3-4 days ago saying EI were encouraging 2021 bookings by offering free change of dates.

I got this in an email from Aer Lingus this afternoon.

'Amazing deals to USA favourites
Fly from London via Dublin to San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle or Orlando from only £209 each way, as part of a return trip.

Offer must end midnight Wednesday 4 November.

Travel: 01 March – 31 May 2021

PS – We’ve got lots of new ways to keep your flights flexible in case your plans change, including free changes, voucher and cash refund options.'

masit · 02-11-2020 8:00pm

Duff wrote: »

This might have been answered in this thread already, but can't seem to find it so apologies if so. I'm thinking of booking return flights to JFK for June next year with the hopes that things might have settled a bit by then. If they haven't, do Aer Lingus offer a refund or anything if you can't take the flight for Covid-related reasons?

Thanks.

Think it's only up until March where they offer refund , change, voucher.

trellheim · 02-11-2020 8:23pm

yep if you look at the fares its only cash refund if you go flex i.e. full price most expensive economy

Jack1985 · 02-11-2020 8:41pm

If you book any fare right now, Aer Lingus are offering free change (fare difference may apply) to any other flight up to 31st of May (Meaning up until that date you are free to change your flight to any future service as far as the booking engine allows).

Cash refunds and vouchers will only be available to certain fare categories. As per EC261 if a flight is cancelled however you will be entitled to a full refund.

PinOnTheRight · 02-11-2020 8:44pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

EI9053 looks to be a freight flight to SEA. 9 prefix for freight, 053 is the 2020 timetabled flight number to SEA.

Once they land in SEA we can figure it out if they park at the north end its freight

Supposedly delivering first/business class seat products to Boeing for installation in one of their customer's aircraft. There is a company in the north that produce them.

nervous_twitch · 02-11-2020 8:49pm

Is CDG the only route Aer Lingus is offering into France at the moment then?

billy few mates · 02-11-2020 9:41pm

PinOnTheRight wrote: »

Supposedly delivering first/business class seat products to Boeing for installation in one of their customer's aircraft. There is a company in the north that produce them.

Thomson Aero Seats in Banbridge possibly.

PinOnTheRight · 02-11-2020 9:43pm

billy few mates wrote: »

Thomson Aero Seats in Banbridge possibly.

That could be it. I seem to remember another firm in Kilkeel back in the day but not sure if they are still around.

goingnowhere · 02-11-2020 10:45pm

Sounds plausible

They landed at SEA though it might of being simpler to land at BFI or PAE. Though would Boeing live down the very last built A330ceo showing up on its turf...

HTCOne · 03-11-2020 12:44pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

Sounds plausible

They landed at SEA though it might of being simpler to land at BFI or PAE. Though would Boeing live down the very last built A330ceo showing up on its turf...

They have assembly lines in Boeing Field and Renton, which are both right next door to SEA. I think there’s a final / cabin fitout facility in Boeing Field too, though I could be totally wrong there. Last time I was at BFI, there were pax 767s waiting to be collected by customers so shows how long ago that was!

duskyjoe · 03-11-2020 5:02pm

billy few mates wrote: »

Thomson Aero Seats in Banbridge possibly.

Correct

goingnowhere · 03-11-2020 5:55pm

HTCOne wrote: »

They have assembly lines in Boeing Field and Renton, which are both right next door to SEA. I think there’s a final / cabin fitout facility in Boeing Field too, though I could be totally wrong there. Last time I was at BFI, there were pax 767s waiting to be collected by customers so shows how long ago that was!

BFI is minutes away (you fly over it on the approach to SEA). Renton/Pane Field is the other side of Seattle and not a road journey you would wish on anyone. East Marginal way on both sides is just 737 Max parked in every inch of space.

Hopefully this is sustained business for EI as it will do wonders to support EI resuming SEA flights (as will the Ryanair pilots being sent to collect the 737's).

03-11-2020 6:03pm

Anyone make sense of this? Don’t see why IAG would overlook BA to operate these flights, would be an industrial relations own goal and I’d imagine UK people would prefer to travel their own “national airline”.

Unless it’s flights from Belfast

https://m.independent.ie/business/world/aer-lingus-in-british-government-talks-on-direct-uk-us-flights-39688149.html

goingnowhere · 03-11-2020 6:12pm

BA doesn't have any aircraft capable of operating those routes on a commercial basis since they got rid of the 757's 10 years ago. BA did have a go at Glasgow - JFK with a 757.

777/787 are too big, the only aircraft that can do the job is the A321NEOLR which EI has and EI has a cost base much lower than BA to start with.

Locker10a · 03-11-2020 6:40pm

Mayo_fan wrote: »

Anyone make sense of this? Don’t see why IAG would overlook BA to operate these flights, would be an industrial relations own goal and I’d imagine UK people would prefer to travel their own “national airline”.

Unless it’s flights from Belfast

https://m.independent.ie/business/world/aer-lingus-in-british-government-talks-on-direct-uk-us-flights-39688149.html

UK people are already flying Aer Lingus to the states in their droves(well pre pandemic) connecting via Dublin, Aer Lingus are now considering offering them direct services

03-11-2020 7:20pm

Locker10a wrote: »

UK people are already flying Aer Lingus to the states in their droves(well pre pandemic) connecting via Dublin, Aer Lingus are now considering offering them direct services

I know that but that’s from Dublin a completely different territory. Aer Lingus moving onto BA’s home turf with their lesser t&cs (although they may be more equal after the Covid BA slashing) would surely cause an industrial relations outcry.

The a321 issue makes sense. However I can’t see the unions accepting this in the long term.

Also confused from a branding point of view. BA is their uk Trans Atlantic brand (yes people are also using EI from Dublin), do they now have to adapt their uk advertising to now include both Aer Lingus and BA?

kevinandrew · 03-11-2020 7:21pm

Mayo_fan wrote: »

Anyone make sense of this? Don’t see why IAG would overlook BA to operate these flights, would be an industrial relations own goal and I’d imagine UK people would prefer to travel their own “national airline”.

Unless it’s flights from Belfast

https://m.independent.ie/business/world/aer-lingus-in-british-government-talks-on-direct-uk-us-flights-39688149.html

I wouldn't put much weight behind the British having much loyalty to their national airline. British Airways has had its reputation dragged through the mud in recent years, rightly or wrongly it has become known for substandard service, poor staff relations and a Heathrow centric focus so intense that most of the UK regions probably don't even think of BA anymore.

Aer Lingus has the right sized aircraft, a lower cost base with plenty of room to make it even lower in a new UK based operation, it also has a well respected brand and good service reputation. Brand awareness, as always, is the biggest hurdle for Aer Lingus in the UK but progress has been made on that over the past decade.

At a time when Scotland and the North of England have increasingly strained relationships with Westminster, there is a real hunger from these regions to forge their own economic path and reduce the perceived over reliance on London and the South. More than ever politicians, local businesses and councils want to achieve "wins" for their constituents and the prospect of securing a fleet of glossy new aircraft on a well known airline for flights across the Atlantic will be very tempting to them, the incentives alone could be enough for Aer Lingus and IAG.

Locker10a · 03-11-2020 7:42pm

Mayo_fan wrote: »

I know that but that’s from Dublin a completely different territory. Aer Lingus moving onto BA’s home turf with their lesser t&cs (although they may be more equal after the Covid BA slashing) would surely cause an industrial relations outcry.

The a321 issue makes sense. However I can’t see the unions accepting this in the long term.

Also confused from a branding point of view. BA is their uk Trans Atlantic brand (yes people are also using EI from Dublin), do they now have to adapt their uk advertising to now include both Aer Lingus and BA?

EI aren’t directly replacing BA on any routes, so I don’t see the issue. EI are opening up their own routes to directly serve a new market.
They are both IAG airlines that’s all, no different to Vueling serving many UK-Europe routes.

HTCOne · 03-11-2020 8:00pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

BFI is minutes away (you fly over it on the approach to SEA). Renton/Pane Field is the other side of Seattle and not a road journey you would wish on anyone. East Marginal way on both sides is just 737 Max parked in every inch of space.

Hopefully this is sustained business for EI as it will do wonders to support EI resuming SEA flights (as will the Ryanair pilots being sent to collect the 737's).

Paine Field is in Everett, well north of Seattle. The Renton and Boeing Field facilities are very close together, almost equidistant from Sea-Tac. Renton is the main 737 facility, Everett is 767 tanker and freighter, 777 pax and freighter, 747-8F and currently some 787 lines which are moving to Charleston. I think BFI is mostly final fit-out.

Qprmeath · 03-11-2020 8:28pm

HTCOne wrote: »

Paine Field is in Everett, well north of Seattle. The Renton and Boeing Field facilities are very close together, almost equidistant from Sea-Tac. Renton is the main 737 facility, Everett is 767 tanker and freighter, 777 pax and freighter, 747-8F and currently some 787 lines which are moving to Charleston. I think BFI is mostly final fit-out.

Another Seattle on tomorrow’s schedule

ekellyie · 03-11-2020 10:27pm

I take it the retirement of EI-DEB,DEC, and DEA is a similar strategy that BA had in retiring their 747’s.
Is it likely that when travel demand returns, EI will start to think about bringing replacements to their short haul fleet?

Tenger · 03-11-2020 10:34pm

Mayo_fan wrote: »

I know that but that’s from Dublin a completely different territory. Aer Lingus moving onto BA’s home turf with their lesser t&cs (although they may be more equal after the Covid BA slashing) would surely cause an industrial relations outcry.

The a321 issue makes sense. However I can’t see the unions accepting this in the long term.

Also confused from a branding point of view. BA is their uk Trans Atlantic brand (yes people are also using EI from Dublin), do they now have to adapt their uk advertising to now include both Aer Lingus and BA?

Nothing to do with “home turf” if it’s a new service that BA don’t currently operate. It’s the airport offering an enticement for any airline to start the service.

Differences in staff T&Cs are only of a concern if BA were subcontracting EI to operate their own flights

As for branding it’s very simple. BA and EI branding is very different, each airline in IAG is given a lot of leeway to maximise their commercial operation.

Locker10a · 03-11-2020 11:27pm

ekellyie wrote: »

I take it the retirement of EI-DEB,DEC, and DEA is a similar strategy that BA had in retiring their 747’s.
Is it likely that when travel demand returns, EI will start to think about bringing replacements to their short haul fleet?

Possibly but also, they seem to be still receiving new a321lrs, these can also be used to provide short haul capacity in between their transatlantic trips, and I’m sure this will be utilised again when the demand exists