Dublin routes news and general chat

Marcusm · 12-07-2017 9:28am

Irish Steve wrote: »

With a little encouragement, and some fifth freedom rights, I could imagine Sydney happening at some stage, given that Beijing is very close to the great circle route from Dublin to Sydney. I have to believe that there would be sufficient traffic on the Dublin Beijing sectors with both freight and passengers to make that sector viable, and Beijing to Sydney should also be reasonable. The crewing logistics would be heavy though.

Having said that, Hong Kong is also very close to the great circle, so either of them would be an ideal mid point for that route, DUB - SYD is not possible with a 330-200 non stop, both from a crew duty and aircraft range aspect.

Let's get back in the real world; if BA has to massively pare back the number of routes which go the full Kangaroo (on cost grounds), there is no prospect of EI making it work.

JCX BXC · 12-07-2017 9:29am

Irishweather wrote: »

No?
Norweigan have been flying passengers from Dublin, Belfast, Shannon and Cork to the NE coast of the United States for over two weeks now.

Have you not been around?

Hence why I said for Ryanair, fuel stops and crew issues are generally not Ryanairs cup of tea.

L1011 · 12-07-2017 1:03pm

Irishweather wrote: »

No?
Norweigan have been flying passengers from Dublin, Belfast, Shannon and Cork to the NE coast of the United States for over two weeks now.

Have you not been around?

With capacity limits and fuel stops. Ryanair have dropped routes due to capacity limits e.g. imposed by runway length before remember, Belfast for instance.

sandbelter · 12-07-2017 1:32pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Is it possible for Aer lingus to look at serving more medium hual with overnight flights to the likes of Moscow, St. Petersburg, Tel - Aviv, Larnaca, Keiv and Istanbul. Aircraft should be back in time for normal short haul morning departures.

I actually think there is serious potential for a midnight departure bank from Dublin.
It would need EI102 to go year round (as a start) and a serious focus on feed from North America but Dublin being curfew free and sufficiently far west for East Coast US arrivals to leave mid morning feed and then connect for a 5/6am arrival in Eastern Europe could actually make it work. Personally I think anywhere east of Warsaw and South east of Bucharest would work, and one stop flights into the Greek islands, Dubrovik, and other holiday destinations could also work.
Europe actually lacks a hub that could function in early hours of the morning (much like the Middle east or India), KEF is trying to fill the void but really DUB's to grab and make happen. But Dublin traffic on its own won't support it.

Irishweather · 12-07-2017 2:39pm

+1 Aer Lingus should've kept the dayflight. Ireland is in a very unique position in Europe to be able to have departures from NE USA that can leave as late as 1pm and land by 11pm, they should be taking advantage of that.

You could have the following departures from American cities:

ORD: 10:00pm
IAD: 12:00pm
MIA:10:00am
BOS: 1:00pm
YYZ: 12:00pm

That's if you want the flights to arrive at 11pm.

Captain_Crash · 12-07-2017 4:03pm

I was always of the opinion that EI and FR could have flights leave DUB between 10Pm and 12 PM heading to the usual bucket and spade routes returning between 4am and 5:30am, then be ready for the morning departure bank starting at 6am.

I'm sure there is a reason they don't currently do it in the summer however I think it could work.

IE 222 · 12-07-2017 5:16pm

Irish Steve wrote: »

Istanbul would be a bit too far for an overnight, the round trip including on the ground time would be between 9 and 10 hours, so that would not work with the present structure of very early departures for the short haul routes, and there could be problems with the arrival time at Istanbul, I don't think there's a curfew as such, but departures from about 01 to 05 are not encouraged, due to the numbers living close to the airport.

Tel Aviv and Larnaca would be equally time constrained, flight times to them would be as long, or slightly longer. The other constraint is that the overnight period is used to perform maintenance checks, and carry out other tasks that are better performed when not under pressure to meet departure times.

Returning Departures would be leaving between 4 and 5am local time with the time difference. A 8-9pm Dub departures should have aircraft back between 6 and 7am. Some adjustments to flights like Naples, Nice and bucket and spade routes could be made.

I don't see a need to run all routes daily maybe just Istanbul and Moscow the rest can work as 4 and 3 weekly only needing 4 planes to serve overnight routes which wouldn't impact maintenance at all.

Noxegon · 12-07-2017 5:30pm

Irishweather wrote: »

You could have the following departures from American cities:

ORD: 10:00pm
IAD: 12:00pm
MIA:10:00am
BOS: 1:00pm
YYZ: 12:00pm

That's if you want the flights to arrive at 11pm.

The only trick with this is getting planes out of Dublin early enough. It could be done if there was the will (5:30am DUB-ORD anyone?) but I can't see it.

IE 222 · 12-07-2017 5:49pm

sandbelter wrote: »

I actually think there is serious potential for a midnight departure bank from Dublin.
It would need EI102 to go year round (as a start) and a serious focus on feed from North America but Dublin being curfew free and sufficiently far west for East Coast US arrivals to leave mid morning feed and then connect for a 5/6am arrival in Eastern Europe could actually make it work. Personally I think anywhere east of Warsaw and South east of Bucharest would work, and one stop flights into the Greek islands, Dubrovik, and other holiday destinations could also work.
Europe actually lacks a hub that could function in early hours of the morning (much like the Middle east or India), KEF is trying to fill the void but really DUB's to grab and make happen. But Dublin traffic on its own won't support it.

Bringing back EI102 would be a start and pushing LAX and SFO out 3 or 4 hours for later arrival in Dublin could work. A 3rd early service on Boston as well. Chicago and Miami are well fed with direct or connection flights already plus there longer routes.

The A321 order can help with adding extra morning flights to the likes of Chicago and Boston. I also think EI would do very well targeting the likes of Winnipeg, Halifax, St. John's, Buffalo, Richmond, Portland (Maine) and Quebec with A321s. Personally I think EI are leaving themselves short on A321.

IE 222 · 12-07-2017 5:55pm

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I was always of the opinion that EI and FR could have flights leave DUB between 10Pm and 12 PM heading to the usual bucket and spade routes returning between 4am and 5:30am, then be ready for the morning departure bank starting at 6am.

I'm sure there is a reason they don't currently do it in the summer however I think it could work.

Not very family-friendly also hotel check in times don't help and people will loose time of their hols

Locker10a · 12-07-2017 6:04pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I was always of the opinion that EI and FR could have flights leave DUB between 10Pm and 12 PM heading to the usual bucket and spade routes returning between 4am and 5:30am, then be ready for the morning departure bank starting at 6am.

I'm sure there is a reason they don't currently do it in the summer however I think it could work.

Not very family-friendly also hotel check in times don't help and people will loose time of their hols

I dont think that would be an issue, many*most* UK charter and holiday airlines do these flights, TUI, Thomas Cook, Monarch, Jet2 etc frequently have flights through the night, it can work, but you have leave space for your fleet to catch up delays, maintenance, cleaning etc.
This type of operation also relies on flexible airports etc one down side is that is creates difficulty in terms of crewing, crew have a limit of deep night hours they can do, and to transition back to early or even mid day starts they'd require an extra day off. EI have a terrible reputation for crewing, throw in TA flights to the mix and you have a rostering nightmare.

trellheim · 12-07-2017 8:55pm

Question : would Seattle be a runner - long stretch but massive tech hub and the bus class fares + feed to Portland and Vancouver is there.

Van.Bosch · 12-07-2017 9:16pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Bringing back EI102 would be a start and pushing LAX and SFO out 3 or 4 hours for later arrival in Dublin could work. A 3rd early service on Boston as well. Chicago and Miami are well fed with direct or connection flights already plus there longer routes.

The A321 order can help with adding extra morning flights to the likes of Chicago and Boston. I also think EI would do very well targeting the likes of Winnipeg, Halifax, St. John's, Buffalo, Richmond, Portland (Maine) and Quebec with A321s. Personally I think EI are leaving themselves short on A321.

They can always order more if they feel the demand is there.

kevinandrew · 12-07-2017 9:31pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Personally I think EI are leaving themselves short on A321.

Unfortunately Aer Lingus are at the mercy of IAG, they'll only ever get as many aircraft as IAG want. Management will have to compete with the other carriers in the group for aircraft orders and general investment.

Just look at the A350, an aircraft Aer Lingus ordered themselves but was quickly transferred to BA/IB after the take over. Same story with the large number of A320neo's on the IAG order books, recently divided up between Iberia, British Airways and Vueling while Aer Lingus will seemingly have to wait a lot longer than its partners for a short haul replacement.

Irishweather · 12-07-2017 9:40pm

Noxegon wrote: »

The only trick with this is getting planes out of Dublin early enough. It could be done if there was the will (5:30am DUB-ORD anyone?) but I can't see it.

What about late afternoon fights to the US?

Irishweather · 12-07-2017 9:41pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Bringing back EI102 would be a start and pushing LAX and SFO out 3 or 4 hours for later arrival in Dublin could work. A 3rd early service on Boston as well. Chicago and Miami are well fed with direct or connection flights already plus there longer routes.

The A321 order can help with adding extra morning flights to the likes of Chicago and Boston. I also think EI would do very well targeting the likes of Winnipeg, Halifax, St. John's, Buffalo, Richmond, Portland (Maine) and Quebec with A321s. Personally I think EI are leaving themselves short on A321.

It doesn't matter. LHR has a dayflight from Chicago and it is further away.

Noxegon · 12-07-2017 9:47pm

Irishweather wrote: »

What about late afternoon fights to the US?

If you want to make the most of your aircraft they need to go both ways across the atlantic every 24 hours.

An 8:00am departure from JFK would get into DUB ~8:00pm. You're not going to get a 10:00pm departure from DUB-JFK realistically, so you want to do it the other way around – which is what EI102 did; send over a plane as early as you can and bring it back before midnight.

Irishweather · 12-07-2017 10:22pm

7 hours from JFK? 8am would get in at 6pm.

Anyway, my suggestion is the following:

Dublin to Boston: 10pm to 11pm to Dublin: 12pm to 11pm
Dublin to JFK: 10pm to 11pm to Dublin: 12pm to 11pm
Dublin to YYZ: 10pm to 11pm to Dublin: 12pm to 11pm
Dublin to ORD: 10pm to 11pm to Dublin: 10am to 11pm

So that's 11-13 hours at each base.

Some will complain but British Airways do something similar. Dublin will have a passenger of 30 million this year so I am sure that the airport will now have ample demand for dayflights.

Alternatively, you could have 8am departures which will have a 9 hour gap but that doesn't take full advantage of the midday departures which gives more time in bed.

Marcusm · 12-07-2017 10:42pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Bringing back EI102 would be a start and pushing LAX and SFO out 3 or 4 hours for later arrival in Dublin could work. A 3rd early service on Boston as well. Chicago and Miami are well fed with direct or connection flights already plus there longer routes.

The A321 order can help with adding extra morning flights to the likes of Chicago and Boston. I also think EI would do very well targeting the likes of Winnipeg, Halifax, St. John's, Buffalo, Richmond, Portland (Maine) and Quebec with A321s. Personally I think EI are leaving themselves short on A321.

Winnipeg, Buffalo, Richmond VA, Portland ME? This way bankruptcy lies....

IE 222 · 12-07-2017 10:45pm

kevinandrew wrote: »

Unfortunately Aer Lingus are at the mercy of IAG, they'll only ever get as many aircraft as IAG want. Management will have to compete with the other carriers in the group for aircraft orders and general investment.

Just look at the A350, an aircraft Aer Lingus ordered themselves but was quickly transferred to BA/IB after the take over. Same story with the large number of A320neo's on the IAG order books, recently divided up between Iberia, British Airways and Vueling while Aer Lingus will seemingly have to wait a lot longer than its partners for a short haul replacement.

I know but if things continue as they are and if Ireland do well in terms of brexit relocations that should give EI a stronger hand.

I personally wouldn't completely write off A350 order. They won't get the 9 but I think 2 or 3 could be possible.

IE 222 · 12-07-2017 11:15pm

Irishweather wrote: »

7 hours from JFK? 8am would get in at 6pm.

Anyway, my suggestion is the following:

Dublin to Boston: 10pm to 11pm to Dublin: 12pm to 11pm
Dublin to JFK: 10pm to 11pm to Dublin: 12pm to 11pm
Dublin to YYZ: 10pm to 11pm to Dublin: 12pm to 11pm
Dublin to ORD: 10pm to 11pm to Dublin: 10am to 11pm

So that's 11-13 hours at each base.

Some will complain but British Airways do something similar. Dublin will have a passenger of 30 million this year so I am sure that the airport will now have ample demand for dayflights.

Alternatively, you could have 8am departures which will have a 9 hour gap but that doesn't take full advantage of the midday departures which gives more time in bed.

It would require a whole schedule change or require nearly doubling the fleet presuming your keeping current services in place as well.

There is two ways of doing It, either go out early in the morning pre 7am for same day return or turn departure times the opposite way and depart Dublin late night to arrive back in the late afternoon the next day.

My original point was to utilise aircraft and serve more medium haul routes without having to source new frames. Yes US connections would be helpful but it wouldn't need to be fed from every US city. My idea would be to use the first 3 or 4 short haul arriving back in Dub for the night to be sent out by 8 - 9pm returning between 5 and 7am for normal duties and also feed current US morning/midday flights. Given the normal early evening short haul and eastern long haul departures these additional late medium haul would give Dublin an attractive hub operation.

IE 222 · 12-07-2017 11:22pm

Marcusm wrote: »

Winnipeg, Buffalo, Richmond VA, Portland ME? This way bankruptcy lies....

I don't suggest serving each of them daily or straight away all at once but with the new A321 these routes will become workable out as they have no or very little TATL routes. Connections onwards from Dublin would also be very important.

Look at Westjet, ASL and Norwigen and Hartford has done alright for itself albeit a healthy payment way made to kick start it but maybe some of these airports will be willing to offer something similar.

Van.Bosch · 12-07-2017 11:36pm

kevinandrew wrote: »

Unfortunately Aer Lingus are at the mercy of IAG, they'll only ever get as many aircraft as IAG want. Management will have to compete with the other carriers in the group for aircraft orders and general investment.

Just look at the A350, an aircraft Aer Lingus ordered themselves but was quickly transferred to BA/IB after the take over. Same story with the large number of A320neo's on the IAG order books, recently divided up between Iberia, British Airways and Vueling while Aer Lingus will seemingly have to wait a lot longer than its partners for a short haul replacement.

There is still no confirmation on the A350's. Not saying I don't agree with you but I find it strange they still show as being EI bound.

john boye · 13-07-2017 12:49am

Van.Bosch wrote: »

There is still no confirmation on the A350's. Not saying I don't agree with you but I find it strange they still show as being EI bound.

Probably easier to still list them as an EI order rather than just saying 'IAG'? That said I still wouldn't rule out some of them flying for EI eventually.

13-07-2017 9:17am

DAA hoping to announce Pittsburgh soon, said by DAA CEO at an event a couple of days ago.

Clav · 13-07-2017 9:35am

trellheim wrote: »

Question : would Seattle be a runner - long stretch but massive tech hub and the bus class fares + feed to Portland and Vancouver is there.

I'd be interested to get peoples view on this too. It's a treck I do fairly frequently and it's a pain having to connect.

Norwegian seem to have indicated they are looking at expanding beyond the link to Gatwick so fingers crossed they might add in a flight to Dublin, even if only a couple of times a week.

Idbatterim · 13-07-2017 9:39am

I really hope norwegian do better than expected from dublin and launch more routes. If they reach agreement with ryanair about feeding each other passengers, thats going to be far more serious competition to IAG...

Beersmith · 13-07-2017 10:28am

Anyone have a clue why there are no dublin zagreb flights now that there is a new larger capacity airport in zagreb

JCX BXC · 13-07-2017 11:45am

Beersmith wrote: »

Anyone have a clue why there are no dublin zagreb flights now that there is a new larger capacity airport in zagreb

Somehow, I don't think the capacity of an airport decides what routes are sustainable.

john boye · 13-07-2017 11:46am

Beersmith wrote: »

Anyone have a clue why there are no dublin zagreb flights now that there is a new larger capacity airport in zagreb

Not sure that's how routes start mate...

Beersmith · 13-07-2017 12:27pm

Well its just that zagreb was so small before i could see why dublin wasn't a destination. Now i don't see a reason. It a eu capital city and loads of migrants working here.

JCX BXC · 20-07-2017 12:51am

Just to confirm (after 7 pages), nothings been announced?

Noxegon · 20-07-2017 6:59am

Yeah, looks that way. Mods, any thoughts on having two parallel threads in this area – one for actual announcements *only* and one for discussion?

Locker10a · 20-07-2017 2:39pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

Just to confirm (after 7 pages), nothings been announced?

Well apparently Pittsburgh is a new route for 2018

JCX BXC · 20-07-2017 2:41pm

Locker10a wrote: »

Well apparently Pittsburgh is a new route for 2018

That's only speculation though. The imminent announcement wasn't very imminent!

Skuzchad · 31-07-2017 12:48am

But if Dub - Pittsburgh was to happen ,who would it be with? Aer Lingus?Delta ? American??

Also I know it prob won't happen within 5 years but wud be nice if we had a direct flight to Texas whether that be Houston or Dallas .

JCX BXC · 31-07-2017 2:09am

Aer Lingus was the hinted rumour. Keep an eye out over the next few months I'd say.

Skuzchad · 31-07-2017 12:25pm

With the preclearance facilities at Dublin and more space in the after noon and evening ,I wonder why joint ventures like delta and air France don't consider using Dublin as a trans atlantic hub especially considering the British airports are more congested.

JCX BXC · 31-07-2017 12:26pm

Skuzchad wrote: »

With the preclearance facilities at Dublin and more space in the after noon and evening ,I wonder why joint ventures like delta and air France don't consider using Dublin as a trans atlantic hub especially considering the British airports are more congested.

USPC is currently quite congested at DUB is it not?

Plus I don't see AF going anywhere outside France, maybe with a subsidiary.

L1011 · 31-07-2017 12:48pm

AF tried using open skies ex LHR. Failed badly.

Skuzchad · 31-07-2017 2:29pm

Generally Uspc is little busy in the mornings but can still be used in the afternoons . I still think Dublin could be utilised as a transatlantic hub for Delta or AA or even Virgin

Irish Steve · 31-07-2017 2:32pm

OK, nearly 100 messages in this thread, there's still 4 months to go before we get to 2018, and there's NO announcements about 2018 routes, so I'm going to rename this thread, and open a new one that will be used for route announcements only, with no chat.

Marcusm · 31-07-2017 2:52pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

Aer Lingus was the hinted rumour. Keep an eye out over the next few months I'd say.

I wonder would it be another Hartford type deal with a large incentive. Hard to see the compelling logic otherwise.

Jamie2k9 · 10-08-2017 6:43pm

Aegean will extend DUB/ATH from mid September until 8th January before resuming in March (June this year) for full 2018 season. Daytime flights on Mon/Fri over winter. Good for spotters!

Aegean like KLM have grown very quickly in a short period of time.

FR have canceled their winter ATH service after one season while EI have started to to make so off peak season cuts in summer.

VG31 · 10-08-2017 6:54pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Aegean will extend DUB/ATH from mid September until 8th January before resuming in March (June this year) for full 2018 season. Daytime flights on Mon/Fri over winter. Good for spotters!

Definitely! Now all we need is S7 and Air Moldova to fly during daylight hours.

Jamie2k9 · 10-08-2017 6:58pm

Meanwhile EI also launched winter schedule today:

Aer Lingus adds two new routes and 300,000 seats in biggest ever winter schedule

http://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/aer-lingus-adds-two-new-routes-and-300000-seats-in-biggest-ever-winter-schedule-36019072.html

L1011 · 10-08-2017 9:29pm

The 'new routes' are MIA that was already announced and BIO going year-round.

330 staying on YYZ is the biggest change really (assuming that wasn't already known and I missed it!)

Pat Dunne · 10-08-2017 9:39pm

L1011 wrote: »

The 'new routes' are MIA that was already announced and BIO going year-round.

330 staying on YYZ is the biggest change really (assuming that wasn't already known and I missed it!)

My understanding is there will be no flights by EI in Jan or Feb to BIO.

john boye · 10-08-2017 10:12pm

Another indo article that reads just like an EI press release...

scooby77 · 10-08-2017 11:00pm

Was expecting announcement of Aer Lingus direct to Vegas-what became of that plan anyone know?

Dublin routes news and general chat

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