Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
03-06-2014, 23:57   #1
The Cush
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 14,184
German DTT to transition to DVB-T2 with HEVC compression

It was announced today that Germany's DTT network will begin the transition from DVB-T/MPEG-2 to DVB-T2/HEVC from 2016 and to be completed by 2020. I believe they will be the first country to use the new compression standard. France have also indicated their intention to transition to DVB-T2/HEVC by 2020.

On the new network the German commercial broadcasting networks RTL and ProSiebenSat.1 channels will be mainly encrypted while the ARD and ZDF PSB channels will remain FTA.

http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2014/...ypt-on-dvb-t2/
http://www.die-medienanstalten.de/pr...anstalten.html

HEVC High-Efficiency Video Coding (H.265): highly efficient video compression format, which requires only about 50 percent of the data rate, compared to the previously used standard, MPEG-4 AVC / H.264, for the same level of video quality.

Quote:
TV households in Germany (mid-2013) 70.214m people in 39.676m households

11% of German households use DTT - 4.2 million households (2.1 million use DTT exclusively)
46.3% use cable - 17.656m households
46.2% use satellite - 17.624m households
4.9% use DSL - 1.872m households

Source: Arbeitsgemeinschaft der Landesmedienanstalten (Association of State Media Authorities)

Last edited by The Cush; 05-06-2014 at 02:22.
The Cush is offline  
(2) thanks from:
Advertisement
04-06-2014, 11:36   #2
watty
Registered User
 
watty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 31,794
Hmm. 1st Gen DTT has been short lived compared to 625 Analogue TV.

The 50% is of course the usual marketing hype, that is under ideal conditions and suitable content. Also that will be comparing at the lower end of quality on MPEG4 compression. But it does give an improvement and the point is that their SD is currently all MPEG2 and DVB-T. DVB-T2 and MPEG4 of course give a big saving.

But will this be done so as to have 1920 x 1080p or 1440 x720p or 1440 x 1080i or
so that MORE spectrum can be sold off crippling the ability to ever have sensible progress frame rates forever?

I'm afraid it's about selling spectrum, not about better TV services.
watty is offline  
04-06-2014, 12:35   #3
The Cush
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 14,184
Quote:
Originally Posted by watty View Post
But will this be done so as to have 1920 x 1080p or 1440 x720p or 1440 x 1080i or
so that MORE spectrum can be sold off crippling the ability to ever have sensible progress frame rates forever?
Of course it's about releasing spectrum for DD2, same for the UK, France, Italy who are also looking at DVB-T2/HEVC to free-up spectrum. According to German news articles no decision has been made on what mix of HD and SD channels will be carried, only in the network planning stage yet.
The Cush is offline  
04-06-2014, 18:14   #4
watty
Registered User
 
watty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 31,794
We don't even really need the 800MHz for Mobile. Mobile Spectrum is very badly used so as to reduce capital (almost once off) expenditure for Mobile Operators.

Instead the Greed of "Captured" Regulators and Politicians and Mobile is destroying the ability to have Terrestrial TV for our Grandchildren.

We know Comreg and Ofcom are committed (with no proper democratic input) to total abolition of Terrestrial Broadcast TV. DD2 is the next step in the plan.

It will be too late when the ordinary public discover that Fibre, Cable, Satellite, Internet are complementary, not a universal replacement for Terrestrial Broadcast.

Pay TV on Cable will have better than current HD (perhaps 2K) and perhaps 96 FPS progressive. Any remaining Terrestrial will be overly compressed 1440 x 1080 i (25fps interlaced 50Hz). Or 1440 x 720p.
watty is offline  
(2) thanks from:
04-06-2014, 18:37   #5
icdg
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 9,878
I'm not sure what makes RTL and Sat1 think they can sell a new pay-DTT platform in Germany where pay-TV (and terrestrial TV for that matter) has traditionaly massively under-performed, next perhaps only to Italy in the the continent of Europe. As long as their channels remain free to air on satellite the only effect would be to push viewers to other platforms.
icdg is offline  
Advertisement
04-06-2014, 22:39   #6
The Cush
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 14,184
Quote:
Originally Posted by icdg View Post
As long as their channels remain free to air on satellite the only effect would be to push viewers to other platforms.
The HD versions of their channels on satellite are encrypted (HD+). By the time the MPEG-2 terrestrial channels are switched off the SD versions on satellite may be gone too.
The Cush is offline  
05-06-2014, 00:13   #7
STB
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,138
That new broadcom chip (BCM 7445) is the only chipset that supports H265 as far as I know. They must be going down the Ultra HD route so they will need all the savings on bandwidth! The French are testing it at the moment in Paris.

STB is offline  
Thanks from:
05-06-2014, 08:51   #8
icdg
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 9,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cush View Post
The HD versions of their channels on satellite are encrypted (HD+). By the time the MPEG-2 terrestrial channels are switched off the SD versions on satellite may be gone too.
So they claim the subscription charge is an ongoing charge for the receiver and the channels themselves are actually free????? I've heard it all now. Pay TV is pay TV, no matter which way you look at it.
icdg is offline  
(2) thanks from:
15-06-2014, 11:03   #9
Impetus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,646
The Keys to HEVC's Successful Deployment and Growth (video)

Netflix is using H.265 for UHD programming in North America, and it is only a matter of time before they will use H.265 for "ordinary" HD and other content too - to save pumping as many bits down the pipe. Google has its VP9 compression technology (open source, no royalties) which competes with H.265.

PC browser support for H.265 and VP9 is critical, and probably will not take long. While a 50% drop in bits (compared with H.264) is aspirational, they are already in the 45% range, even with low definition content.

It seems to me that to keep your options open (“future-proof”) you need a PC with HDMI 2.0 out and a 4k TV with HDMI 2.0 in to transport the UHD content from the PC to TV screen. Sub 2,000 € UHD TVs with H.265 and or VP9 browsers will follow soon after - offering direct Ethernet connections and a remote control to navigate through programme offerings from the couch, probably with speech recognition.

The future of television is on demand (Netflix style), rather than everybody managing their diaries to jump to the orders of broadcasters to watch a specific programme at a specific time, which is one of the main reasons why broadcast audiences are falling off in developed countries.

There is no reason why other Netflix type companies don’t spring up offering specialist content funded by advertising (like twit.tv) or subscription based. A TV station becomes a website with videos (on demand and/or live). 8K TV can follow, but it will need an even better screen.

A video discussion on HEVC and related technologies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUK9FE0GFM4

HDMI 2.0
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/hdmi-2-0...-need-to-know/
Impetus is offline  
Thanks from:
Advertisement
15-06-2014, 11:10   #10
Impetus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,646
Astra and Eutelsat have started their first broadcasts using HEVC

http://www.eutelsat.com/en/services/...efinition.html

http://www.ses.com/4233325/news/2013/15034396

Eutelsat overview presentation on technologies:

http://www.worldbroadcastingunions.o...Nov%202013.pdf
Impetus is offline  
15-06-2014, 11:48   #11
watty
Registered User
 
watty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 31,794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impetus View Post

The future of television is on demand (Netflix style), rather than everybody managing their diaries to jump to the orders of broadcasters to watch a specific programme at a specific time, which is one of the main reasons why broadcast audiences are falling off in developed countries.

Audiences are dropping because content is poor.

The "We don't need Broadcast" mantra is Ofcom & Comreg propaganda because they want to sell the entire Broadcast UHF band.

Many niche stations can be replaced by Internet, but only when there is universal fast broadband.

Broadband needs fixed infrastructure and for Mainstream channels is more expensive than even DTT (Satellite much cheaper than terrestrial).

Physical video rental shops are pretty doomed because people either want to buy a DVD/Bluray or rent online. Not everyone wants to rent or download for ever.

Also there will be PVRs that record EVERY terrestrial channel on a rolling 2 week basis. GIVING people one of these in the future would be cheaper than Catch up / Download TV for mainstream channels.


Abolition of Broadcasting or physical discs isn't going to happen. They and Broadband streaming are complementary.

Also Cable TV & Satellite can't replace Terrestrial TV.

I don't wish a future on my Grandchildren where all TV viewing is tracked and only available on broadband and nothing is "off-line".
watty is offline  
15-06-2014, 12:28   #12
Sheldons Brain
Registered User
 
Sheldons Brain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,386
Broadcast makes admirable sense for things like the World Cup, having 3bn individual transmissions for the same thing would make no sense whatsoever and 90% of the places receiving the transmission had no infrastructure for broadband.
Sheldons Brain is offline  
15-06-2014, 14:01   #13
Impetus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by watty View Post
Audiences are dropping because content is poor.

.
Broadcast content is too generalised for large audiences who are used to web sites and prior to that magazines and books specialising in their topics of interest. Dummed down content for the mass audience will attract people with poor purchasing power (unable or unwilling to pay subscriptions even small ones, and not interesting to many advertisers due to lack of spending power).

You could have high quality content which many mass audiences might consider poor or whatever. eg a live concert in 4K or 8K from with 22.2 high bit rate sound from Teatro alla Scala in Milano*. But most people who are interested in this stuff would gladly pay €€€ to watch it live or on demand in their living room - saving admission tickets, flights and hotel, meals etc. The theatre would still be sold out.... they would generate extra cash for the multi-media rights and the actors etc would benefit with potentially higher income etc.

Or you might have a broadcast technology channel, aimed at a global audience, which I suspect would have no problem selling advertising of related products and services, and no problem selling various types of subscription. Delivered over the web like http://twit.tv/shows.

As for "World Cup" type type content distribution, this can be streamed, using local cacheing (eg an SSD in each local VDSL2 street cabinet, or FTTP street cabinet) - so one copy of the product is shipped to the edge of the network, and every house served by that local hub is drawing the content of mass interest over the short link to their home from the street box. Alternatively a hybrid solution 4K or 8K DTT with a limited number of channels to carry content of wide public interest, with a browser built in to display everything else, mainly on demand.

For this to flourish one has to take monopolies like NTL (who has a snout in the conventional broadcast pay TV trough, as well as broadband, sort of), out of the loop and replace them with a national FTTP platform open to all comers (content sources and end users). The US cable monopolies like Comcast and Time Warner seem to be doing everything to block or slow down Video on Demand services, and UPC comes from the same stable.

*http://www.teatroallascala.org/en/
Impetus is offline  
15-06-2014, 16:24   #14
watty
Registered User
 
watty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 31,794
Fantasy and patronising to the majority of viewers.

Technically it's possible to mass broadcast via Internet, but even if every home had fibre (a pre-condition) it still is inflexible in delivery compared to Radio Broadcast. Also more expensive.

The two technologies are complementary. Only a "Captured Regulator" or Google/Netflix/Amazon/Apple would believe in a purely wired, monitored, controlled and EXPENSIVE subscription only future.

Your "broadcast free" future would only benefit large multinational corporations, cost consumers more and be the death of quality and relevant national PSB output.
watty is offline  
15-06-2014, 16:34   #15
Impetus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by watty View Post
Fantasy and patronising to the majority of viewers.

Technically it's possible to mass broadcast via Internet, but even if every home had fibre (a pre-condition) it still is inflexible in delivery compared to Radio Broadcast. Also more expensive.

The two technologies are complementary. Only a "Captured Regulator" or Google/Netflix/Amazon/Apple would believe in a purely wired, monitored, controlled and EXPENSIVE subscription only future.

Your "broadcast free" future would only benefit large multinational corporations, cost consumers more and be the death of quality and relevant national PSB output.
A few hours ago you admitted that the existing content inflicted on viewers is poor. One of the reasons is because the market is closed and insular. I am saying open it up by removing the broadband "bouchon" - a chain is as strong as its weakest link scenario. You can buy a 4K camera for about 2,500 € - eg http://www.sony.ie/electronics/inter...ert-capability
less if you shop around. Make your own content about anything you are expert in and offer it to the world over IPTV. Use subscription or advertising or hybrid models to remunerate yourself. The one thing you will not want is pipeline monopolists trying to prevent one from delivering the product or mafia style taking a 60% cut of your revenues.
Impetus is offline  
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet