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Climate Action Plan

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24567…15

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    #32
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    When the solution to a problem is less taxes and smaller government I will start to believe.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #33
    El_Bee
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    yeah great job, meanwhile China, Pakistan, India etc. don't give a f*ck.


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    #34
    tjhook
    Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭tjhook


    Alena Loud Tantrum wrote: »
    Will cost less in the long run as you become energy independent


    Yes, because the government doesn't need all the taxes it takes in today, and definitely won't just increase other taxes to make up for decreased intake from energy taxes.


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    #35
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Can somebody explain to me what the whole climate change crisis agenda is trying to achieve?

    A static climate seems to be the goal but that, in my opinion is unachievable.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #36
    Sciprio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭Sciprio


    I'm still waiting on Enda Kennys five point plan.


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    #37
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    The mind boggles. You do know that per person we pollute far more than Chinese people?

    0.13% of global emissions come from Ireland


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    #38
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,811 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    0.13% of global emissions come from Ireland

    that's because we've a small population relatively speaking. Per capita we pollute a lot, everyone in the world needs to change.


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    #39
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Can somebody explain to me what the whole climate change crisis agenda is trying to achieve?

    A static climate seems to be the goal but that, in my opinion is unachievable.
    That's an objective fact, there's no opinion about it, the climate will always change, it runs in cycles over thousands of yrs.

    The debate centres around man made vs natural and rate of change.


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    #40
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    The mind boggles. You do know that per person we pollute far more than Chinese people?


    And rich people pollute more than poor people but carbon taxes will effect both, to a disproportionate level.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #41
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    That's an objective fact, there's no opinion about it, the climate will always change, it runs in cycles over thousands of yrs.

    The debate centres around man made vs natural and rate of change.

    I thought the climate alarmists had declared the debate to be over. How very scientific of them.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #42
    bfa1509
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭bfa1509


    The action plan doesn't go far enough for me. Just think of all the people there are exhaling carbon dioxide. I think we should cut the amount of people on earth down by 75% by 2025 and bring in measures to stop people breathing before 2030. Only then will climate change slow down to a point that it won't pose a threat to humanity.


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    #43
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    that's because we've a small population relatively speaking. Per capita we pollute a lot, everyone in the world needs to change.

    It's still .13% of the global emissions . A drop in the ocean and taxing Paddy and Mary will make zero difference
    8% of people voted for the green party.
    92% didn't.


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    #44
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    that's because we've a small population relatively speaking. Per capita we pollute a lot, everyone in the world needs to change.

    “Everyone in the world needs to change.”

    We’ve had revolutionaries say that before. It never ends well.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #45
    bfa1509
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭bfa1509


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    It's still .13% of the global emissions . A drop in the ocean and taxing Paddy and Mary will make zero difference
    8% of people voted for the green party.
    92% didn't.

    Too late. Leo already "got the message". No amount of sense is going to slow this runaway train down


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    #46
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    bfa1509 wrote: »
    Too late. Leo already "got the message". No amount of sense is going to slow this runaway train down

    You are correct. It's happening now like it or not. Other countries protest or remove governments. Irish people just get on with it.


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    #47
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,800 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Nice distraction from health and housing all the same.


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    #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Blinky Plebum wrote: »
    We do, but they have 300 times our population and that is the bigger problem.

    There are far too many people on the planet and nobody is going to have the balls to say this is what we need to be cutting.

    I'm not suggesting a cull but governments all across the world are going to have to find some way of stopping people from having too many children.

    There's a really good book called "Factfulness" that shows global trends based on WHO data to prove that fact is often diffrent from a common perception.

    One of these is that population will continue to increase unless we have some good wars or famines. But the reality is that as the standards of living improve the family size declines significantly. While we might be looking at 10bn people by 2100, it should be flatlining at that.

    In addition, we should be looking at waste per person for a more accurate reflection of where the issues lie, and should be looking to decrease waste significantly by those of us at the top of the again (which is everyone in this country.)

    As other countries standard of living match ours so too will their waste per person. Because people are like water, socio economic classes find an equilibrium in terms of possession and waste. We can lead the way.

    Any anyway, being selfish, it will make our own country a lot cooler.


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    #49
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,811 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    “Everyone in the world needs to change.”

    We’ve had revolutionaries say that before. It never ends well.

    Well ok let's do nothing and carry on as is and see how that goes. Whether climate heating is man made or not we're turning the planet into a giant dump and there'll be nothing left for anyone soon enough.


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    #50
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    An Taisce and the UN disagree
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/irish-agriculture-greenwashing-its-climate-impact-an-taisce-1.3855084

    Oh God I can see where this thread is going to go...

    Well that's likley true. Thelonious Monk telling posters to (and I quote) ...
    "shut the f*ck up"


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    #51
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    500k retrofits would cost tens of billions.

    Modern high density apartment blocks would be more cost effective, with communal facilities and amenities and good public transport connections.

    If you can afford a private garden then that's a nice luxury but the resources are not there for it to be a given.

    They need to start coming down hard on people burning rubbish. Very common in parts of the countryside. There's a village near here that always smells of plastic fumes.


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    #52
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,811 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    There's my queue to say good night


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    #53
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Well ok let's do nothing and carry on as is and see how that goes. Whether climate heating is man made or not we're turning the planet into a giant dump and there'll be nothing left for anyone soon enough.

    .13%


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    #54
    SomeGuyCalledMi
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭SomeGuyCalledMi


    India and China say they can't change quickly because they are too big and that small countries like Ireland have an unfair advantage in their ability to change.

    But we say we won't change because we are too small and insignificant.

    We have an opportunity to be world class at something. But instead we will be just average at best.

    I'm disappointed but not surprised. This just doesn't go far enough.


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    #55
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Well ok let's do nothing and carry on as is and see how that goes. Whether climate heating is man made or not we're turning the planet into a giant dump and there'll be nothing left for anyone soon enough.

    Things never carry on “as is” forever. Humans adapt and innovate. There are few hunter gatherers left, not because of government taxation or incentives but because there is a better way to secure food. There have been doom mongers as long as there have been people and natural disasters. There has always been a blurring of the lines between science and religion and now the “science” of climate doom has become an article of faith. We can only save ourselves by repentance.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #56
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Regarding that misconception that China is supposedly 'polluting less than other countries'
    Blinky Plebum wrote: »
    We do, but they have 300 times our population and that is the bigger problem.

    There are far too many people on the planet and nobody is going to have the balls to say this is what we need to be cutting.

    I'm not suggesting a cull but governments all across the world are going to have to find some way of stopping people from having too many children.

    Not quite

    China is the biggest emitter of greenhouse gas CO2 in the world. Largely down to their use of coal in industry and energy production. Coal fired power stations are still being commissioned.

    China at 7.5 tonnes of carbon dioxide per person - has gone past European per capita emissions (6.4 tonnes) and was higher than Ireland at 7.3 tonnes for the last year reported (2014)

    At least Ireland is producing food and not huge amounts of disposable tat ...

    Edit: Apologies found correct link.

    33p132.jpg

    https://databank.worldbank.org/reports.aspx?source=2&series=EN.ATM.CO2E.PC&country=#


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    #57
    Blinky Plebum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭Blinky Plebum


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There's a really good book called "Factfulness" that shows global trends based on WHO data to prove that fact is often diffrent from a common perception.

    One of these is that population will continue to increase unless we have some good wars or famines. But the reality is that as the standards of living improve the family size declines significantly. While we might be looking at 10bn people by 2100, it should be flatlining at that.

    In addition, we should be looking at waste per person for a more accurate reflection of where the issues lie, and should be looking to decrease waste significantly by those of us at the top of the again (which is everyone in this country.)

    As other countries standard of living match ours so too will their waste per person. Because people are like water, socio economic classes find an equilibrium in terms of possession and waste. We can lead the way.

    Any anyway, being selfish, it will make our own country a lot cooler.


    Agree with all that but the problem is it could well be too late before all that happens, realistically there should have been efforts made to control population 50 years ago when it was becoming apparent we were all having such a negative effect on the planet.

    Everyone in the world should be aiming to consume less live a greener life but not having such a big population in the first place would help all efforts in that regard.


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    #58
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,811 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-eii/eii2016/ggcc/

    In 2013 Ireland was way higher than China is now at 12.8 and probably has increased since

    And carbon from Irish households is highest in EU, way higher than the average

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/irish-household-carbon-emissions-worst-in-eu-1.3460625


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    #59
    Blinky Plebum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭Blinky Plebum


    SomeGuyCalledMi wrote: »
    India and China say they can't change quickly because they are too big and that small countries like Ireland have an unfair advantage in their ability to change.

    But we say we won't change because we are too small and insignificant.

    We have an opportunity to be world class at something. But instead we will be just average at best.

    I'm disappointed but not surprised. This just doesn't go far enough.

    I don't think we are saying that I think people have correctly pointed out that if we do change it would not do much to fix the problem as long as the larger countries in the world like China,India and USA refuse to change aswell and those 3 massive countries seem to be most resistant to change.


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    #60
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Blinky Plebum wrote: »
    I don't think we are saying that I think people have correctly pointed out that if we do change it would do much to fix the problem as long as the larger countries in the world like China,India and USA refuse to change aswell and those 3 massive countries seem to be most resistant to change.

    Yes. We contribute 0.13% of global emissions.

    These are carbon taxes on a country that produces a tenth of 1 percent of the emissions. A total waste of time that will push people into poverty.
    FG do not care about poor people. The green party do not care about poor people. And it looks like Irish people don't care about poor people.


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    #61
    El_Bee
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    everyone in the world needs to change.


    The BRIC's and Pakistan as well as developing African nations like Nigeria will wipe their arses with any demands to change.


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