If the Green Party got into government are they mad

GreeBo · 17-06-2019 3:05pm

maccored wrote: »

theres probably as much oil left as there are natural resources left like cobalt, lithium and copper used to make electric cars

Batteries can be recharged and reused for years.
Oil less so.

Still waiting on your commute and alternative transport replies...

tayto lover · 17-06-2019 3:05pm

maccored wrote: »

nope. it seems its not expected for the government to supply alternatives to driving - you are expected it seems to just go out and buy a new car and scrap the one you have. We seem to forget where most of the electricity comes from, or the environmental impact of creating electric cars

Or the cost associated with getting an ev. We’re made of money seemingly.

tayto lover · 17-06-2019 3:06pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I know a couple of green party members, environmental issues are a critical part of their core beliefs

So do I. Complete chancers. Bandwagoners.

GreeBo · 17-06-2019 3:07pm

maccored wrote: »

nope. it seems its not expected for the government to supply alternatives to driving - you are expected it seems to just go out and buy a new car and scrap the one you have. We seem to forget where most of the electricity comes from, or the environmental impact of creating electric cars

Ah so you are one of the "can't somebody else do it" brigade.

You seem to forget the targets for renewable energy that have been pointed out multiple times in this thread.

Again, what's your commute and transport alternatives? How realistic is public transport for your commute?

maccored · 17-06-2019 3:07pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Batteries can be recharged and reused for years.
Oil less so.

Still waiting on your commute and alternative transport replies...

why are you waiting on that? If you read my post you;d know how long my commute is, with no alternative transport routes. not too sure why you want me to give you an alternative - I dont have one bar sell my car and buy an electric one.

you do know that those batteries use natural resources to be created dont you? we're running out of those too (or certainly will need to massively ramp up the mining of them)

maccored · 17-06-2019 3:09pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Ah so you are one of the "can't somebody else do it" brigade.

You seem to forget the targets for renewable energy that have been pointed out multiple times in this thread.

Again, what's your commute and transport alternatives? How realistic is public transport for your commute?

cant someone else walk to work instead of me? yeah - please because a) i cant afford an electric vehicle and b) ive no other way to get to work. and for the THIRD TIME, there is no alternative transport to work. at all.

17-06-2019 3:09pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I know a couple of green party members, environmental issues are a critical part of their core beliefs

Bolded part is tbe problem. Like People Before Profit and Sinn Fein they are a faith based party rather than a fact based one.

Some inconvenient facts : used cars are better for the environment than new ones. Diesel emits less CO2 than petrol. Renewables can't power us exclusively and we need a zero carbon base load , nuclear being the only viable option.
Moneypoint and agriculture are huge emitters in this country.

All the above are blasphemy to them.

Wanderer78 · 17-06-2019 3:09pm

tayto lover wrote:

So do I. Complete chancers. Bandwagoners.

Not the green party members I know, they're deeply interested and concerned about environmental issues, great to hear eamonn Ryan mention environmental economist kate raworth

GreeBo · 17-06-2019 3:09pm

maccored wrote: »

why are you waiting on that? If you read my post you;d know how long my commute is, with no alternative transport routes. not too sure why you want me to give you an alternative - I dont have one bar sell my car and buy an electric one.

you do know that those batteries use natural resources to be created dont you? we're running out of those too (or certainly will need to massively ramp up the mining of them)

Yes i do know, which is why i said they can be reused, unlike oil.
Also alternative resources are being investigated for battery use.

Not too sure why you think the government should solve your personal commute issues?

bladespin · 17-06-2019 3:10pm

maccored wrote: »

theres probably as much oil left as there are natural resources left like cobalt, lithium and copper used to make electric cars

And the oil/fosil fuel used in actually getting this out of the ground.

maccored · 17-06-2019 3:10pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Yes i do know, which is why i said they can be reused, unlike oil.
Also alternative resources are being investigated for battery use.

Not too sure why you think the government should solve your personal commute issues?

they should if they are going to tax me more for using the transport I already have. if someone in a city has access to public transport, so should the rest of us.

Shefwedfan · 17-06-2019 3:11pm

Not sure why these discussions always end up back with people going on about buying a new car

Nobody is saying to go out and scrap a car and buy electric. If people are buying new cars then the focus should be more towards electric instead of a combustion engine

The second hand market is also available for electric cars, you dont need to buy brand new. Also it doesn't suit all people.

Cars is one element, lots of other discussion points

GreeBo · 17-06-2019 3:13pm

maccored wrote: »

cant someone else walk to work instead of me? yeah - please because a) i cant afford an electric vehicle and b) ive no other way to get to work. and for the THIRD TIME, there is no alternative transport to work. at all.

Im asking how realistic is it for you to expect public transport for your 40 mile commute?

To me it's unreasonable to expect public transport to cater for that.
Though you do say its possible just not on time... can you not get up earlier?

Wanderer78 · 17-06-2019 3:13pm

Deleted User wrote:

Some inconvenient facts : used cars are better for the environment than new ones. Diesel emits less CO2 than petrol. Renewables can't power us exclusively and we need a zero carbon base load , nuclear being the only viable option. All the above are blasphemy to them.

Have we entered the world of 'alternative facts'!

New cars v's old cars! Really!

I will agree on the nuclear front though, the green party certainly have a lot of work to do, I suspect this carbon tax thing will be a flop

tayto lover · 17-06-2019 3:13pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Not the green party members I know, they're deeply interested and concerned about environmental issues, great to hear eamonn Ryan mention environmental economist kate raworth

My last local Green councilor was also a publican. You only saw him around the odd time. He retired and his bar manager tried to win his seat. Thankfully he failed. A chancer. He’d try to teach algebra to fish if there was a euro in it.

Tell me this. If they were so concerned about the environment then why was every lamppost around Ireland laden down with their election posters?

Wanderer78 · 17-06-2019 3:15pm

tayto lover wrote:

My last local Green councilor was also a publican. You only saw him around the odd time. He retired and his bar manager tried to win his seat. Thankfully he failed. A chancer. Heâ€™d try to teach algebra to fish if there was a euro in it.

We clearly move in completely different green party circles, I've a lot of respect for those I know

GreeBo · 17-06-2019 3:16pm

maccored wrote: »

they should if they are going to tax me more for using the transport I already have. if someone in a city has access to public transport, so should the rest of us.

Well you are using the road infrastructure that they already provided, why shouldn't they tax you for using it?

You honestly think you should have the same facilities in a city as in the suburbs?
And you complain about tax in the same post?!

Where do you think the money for your public transport would come from exactly? Wouldnt be fat cat bankers by any chance would it?

maccored · 17-06-2019 3:17pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Im asking how realistic is it for you to expect public transport for your 40 mile commute?

To me it's unreasonable to expect public transport to cater for that.
Though you do say its possible just not on time... can you not get up earlier?

its as realistic as the government charging me more money just to get to work. can you not get up earlier? for what? to walk to work quicker? for the FOURTH TIME - theres no public transport alternatives

maccored · 17-06-2019 3:17pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Well you are using the road infrastructure that they already provided, why shouldn't they tax you for using it?

You honestly think you should have the same facilities in a city as in the suburbs?
And you complain about tax in the same post?!

Where do you think the money for your public transport would come from exactly? Wouldnt be fat cat bankers by any chance would it?

where did the 10 million for trump come from? whereever that was would be a start. How about the 40 odd percent taxes I end up paying?

tayto lover · 17-06-2019 3:18pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

We clearly move in completely different green party circles, I've a lot of respect for those I know

Well the ones you know must be different from the last crowd who propped up FF and insisted on a carbon tax while FF bankrupted the country with their help.

bladespin · 17-06-2019 3:19pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

We clearly move in completely different green party circles, I've a lot of respect for those I know

I have to admit I don't (bar one who I'm not sure is a member anymore), any I met definitely tended to the promotional stunt side of things, like wanting to put a domestic wind turbine in the middle of Dublin because it would 'send the right message'.

tayto lover · 17-06-2019 3:19pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not sure why these discussions always end up back with people going on about buying a new car

Nobody is saying to go out and scrap a car and buy electric. If people are buying new cars then the focus should be more towards electric instead of a combustion engine

The second hand market is also available for electric cars, you dont need to buy brand new. Also it doesn't suit all people.

Cars is one element, lots of other discussion points

Watch the price of used ev’s shoot up now.

blanch152 · 17-06-2019 3:23pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

As I said already swapping a million diesel cars for a million electric cars is not the answer.

Swapping a million cars and replacing them with public transport if the option.

Exactly, I am in a two-car family (three drivers), one of which is a hybrid, the other a 1-litre job. Ultimately, in the next five years, the smaller car will be sold and not replaced as the public transport options hopefully improve. The hybrid will last until 2030 - I don't believe in changing cars often - and be replaced by an electric if we still need one by then.

Over 35 years, we have only ever bought 6 cars between us, two of them were replaced when the cost of repair was prohibitive, and another was written off after a crash (other driver's fault). During the same time period, I have seen neighbours and friends buy a multiple of that number.

rabbidpeach · 17-06-2019 3:24pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Im asking how realistic is it for you to expect public transport for your 40 mile commute?

To me it's unreasonable to expect public transport to cater for that.
Though you do say its possible just not on time... can you not get up earlier?

I'm in a similar situation to the poster you quoted, similar distance from work but I do have a public transport option. To get to work for 9am, I need to leave the house at 6:40 to get a bus for 7am that gets me into the office around 8:45. It's exhausting and I wouldn't recommend it.

Alternatively, I could drive it in 45 minutes. I never wanted to drive but I am getting lessons now as the commute is just too much.

is_that_so · 17-06-2019 3:27pm

maccored wrote: »

where did the 10 million for trump come from? whereever that was would be a start. How about the 40 odd percent taxes I end up paying?

The Trump thing is our security cost for him showing up here.

tayto lover · 17-06-2019 3:28pm

is_that_so wrote: »

The Trump thing is our security cost for him showing up here.

Did he use an ev?

is_that_so · 17-06-2019 3:29pm

rabbidpeach wrote: »

I'm in a similar situation to the poster you quoted, similar distance from work but I do have a public transport option. To get to work for 9am, I need to leave the house at 6:40 to get a bus for 7am that gets me into the office around 8:45. It's exhausting and I wouldn't recommend it.

Alternatively, I could drive it in 45 minutes. I never wanted to drive but I am getting lessons now as the commute is just too much.

I used to use the bus as an excuse to snooze for an hour and to read on the way home. Even so it wears you down. Can't beat the convenience of the car, though!

is_that_so · 17-06-2019 3:30pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Did he use an ev?

Very doubtful. It was the cost of cordoning off Clare!

abcabc123123 · 17-06-2019 3:33pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Bolded part is tbe problem. Like People Before Profit and Sinn Fein they are a faith based party rather than a fact based one.

The Green party is probably the least appropriate party in Ireland to apply that label to. Proportionally I'd say you'll find more Green elected reps with science backgrounds than any other party, and probably higher levels of educational attainment as well.

Shefwedfan · 17-06-2019 3:48pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Watch the price of used ev’s shoot up now.

They already have, I bought a Leaf 2 years ago for my mother. I could sell today at the same price or maybe even a small profit.

tayto lover · 17-06-2019 4:16pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

They already have, I bought a Leaf 2 years ago for my mother. I could sell today at the same price or maybe even a small profit.

And they’ll get even more expensive. The Greens have seen to that already. Higher carbon taxes will effect the poor far more than the rich.

Shefwedfan · 17-06-2019 4:29pm

tayto lover wrote: »

And they’ll get even more expensive. The Greens have seen to that already. Higher carbon taxes will effect the poor far more than the rich.

No, when first released the depreciation on electric cars was huge, much more than any other car.

I bought at the stage when depreciation was still high, soon after this started to level out so the car went up in value instead of down. IN reality if you buy a 2012 Leaf now it is around the correct price....

tayto lover · 17-06-2019 4:35pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

No, when first released the depreciation on electric cars was huge, much more than any other car.

I bought at the stage when depreciation was still high, soon after this started to level out so the car went up in value instead of down. IN reality if you buy a 2012 Leaf now it is around the correct price....

Maybe but watch the prices increase as we’re forced to change as the new laws come in and fuel prices are shoved up.

Shefwedfan · 17-06-2019 5:04pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe but watch the prices increase as we’re forced to change as the new laws come in and fuel prices are shoved up.

I dont think anyone will be forced

What the government has said it that it will equal the tax on petrol and diesel. At the moment diesel is 10c less tax per ltr.

Maybe some of them would reduce one by 5c and increase the other by 5c. Hardly throwing the prices up to force people. The price of diesel and petrol is not massive at the moment

tayto lover · 17-06-2019 5:16pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I dont think anyone will be forced

What the government has said it that it will equal the tax on petrol and diesel. At the moment diesel is 10c less tax per ltr.

Maybe some of them would reduce one by 5c and increase the other by 5c. Hardly throwing the prices up to force people. The price of diesel and petrol is not massive at the moment

I think we will be forced to buy ev’s.
I can’t ever see the price of petrol being reduced to that of diesel either.
Only one way prices go and that’s up.

Shefwedfan · 17-06-2019 5:20pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I think we will be forced to buy ev’s.
I can’t ever see the price of petrol being reduced to that of diesel either.
Only one way prices go and that’s up.

Well if a party had any sense they would say lets meet in the middle and increase diesel by 5c per ltr and reduce petrol by 5c per ltr....

Then its a straight fight

The migration to electric will happen anyway because all providers are moving to electric and combustion will be phased out.

Wanderer78 · 17-06-2019 5:23pm

tayto lover wrote:

I think we will be forced to buy evâ€™s. I canâ€™t ever see the price of petrol being reduced to that of diesel either. Only one way prices go and thatâ€™s up.

Shefwedfan wrote:

The migration to electric will happen anyway because all providers are moving to electric and combustion will be phased out.

I'd agree with both of these statements

Shefwedfan · 17-06-2019 5:50pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'd agree with both of these statements

Petrol and diesel prices are increasing anyway.....

Nothing to do with tax etc but the price will increase, you would think dropped demand might decrease price but it won't

kanuseeme · 17-06-2019 5:50pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

As I said already swapping a million diesel cars for a million electric cars is not the answer.

Swapping a million cars and replacing them with public transport if the option.

I believe public transport, might not be as you envisage, it could well be a million electric cars but self driving/computer controlled etc, driving only inches from each other at speed, people talked of spending hours for a commute that only takes a quarter of the time in a car.

Why spend billions on infrastructure, railway/tram lines, bus corridors, when a fleet of electric self driving cars could cater for house to work transport.

is_that_so · 17-06-2019 5:52pm

kanuseeme wrote: »

I believe public transport, might not be as you envisage, it could well be a million electric cars but self driving/computer controlled etc, driving only inches from each other at speed, people talked of spending hours for a commute that only takes a quarter of the time in a car.

Why spend billions on infrastructure, railway/tram lines, bus corridors, when a fleet of electric self driving cars could cater for house to work transport.

No sign of electric fleets of self-driving cars but useful work can be done on what we have. Ultimately all PT will be electric anyway.

Shefwedfan · 17-06-2019 5:54pm

kanuseeme wrote: »

I believe public transport, might not be as you envisage, it could well be a million electric cars but self driving/computer controlled etc, driving only inches from each other at speed, people talked of spending hours for a commute that only takes a quarter of the time in a car.

Why spend billions on infrastructure, railway/tram lines, bus corridors, when a fleet of electric self driving cars could cater for house to work transport.

Image....instead of thousands of self driving car you had one large self driving vehicle with loads of seats on it

imagine the posibilities!!!

is_that_so · 17-06-2019 5:56pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Image....instead of thousands of self driving car you had one large self driving vehicle with loads of seats on it imagine the posibilities!!!

Driving is all fine and dandy but where does it stop?

kanuseeme · 17-06-2019 5:58pm

Taking the long way around.

People do not want to be stuck on a bus with some smelly hippy and then to walk 20 minutes in the rain/cold. If people are rich enough they will go by car not bus.

TheRiverman · 17-06-2019 6:02pm

Anytime I see or hear Eamon Ryan I want to puke.He hasn't a clue about rural life.

Wheeliebin30 · 17-06-2019 6:05pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Well if a party had any sense they would say lets meet in the middle and increase diesel by 5c per ltr and reduce petrol by 5c per ltr....

Then its a straight fight

The migration to electric will happen anyway because all providers are moving to electric and combustion will be phased out.

What about trucks tractors vans etc?

Shefwedfan · 17-06-2019 6:07pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

What about trucks tractors vans etc?

Trucks/vans normally get VAT off.....

Tractors is not on car diesel. It is on agri diesel

Also, might be worth nothing Nissan have electric van and VW Crafter is available as well. Renault kangoovan etc etc

Shefwedfan · 17-06-2019 6:10pm

is_that_so wrote: »

Driving is all fine and dandy but where does it stop?

Not too far in the future nobody will own cars, PCP etc is the start of it. Talk to any of the large lease companies and you will pay for a car like a comodity. Similar to what Go Car are introduced

So in morning if you want a car and you live in Dublin, you go to local check in point and pick up one and then drop it back.

People owning and having cars sitting outside on driveway will be gone in a few years.

is_that_so · 17-06-2019 6:12pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not too far in the future nobody will own cars, PCP etc is the start of it. Talk to any of the large lease companies and you will pay for a car like a comodity. Similar to what Go Car are introduced

So in morning if you want a car and you live in Dublin, you go to local check in point and pick up one and then drop it back.

People owning and having cars sitting outside on driveway will be gone in a few years.

It'll take longer than that but yes a likely common model in a decade or so.

Wheeliebin30 · 17-06-2019 6:12pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Trucks/vans normally get VAT off.....

Tractors is not on car diesel. It is on agri diesel

Also, might be worth nothing Nissan have electric van and VW Crafter is available as well. Renault kangoovan etc etc

I mean when they ban all fossil fuels will they have Forty foots been towed by an electric engine?

I believe it takes 40 minutes to charge your car, how would that work if you’re commuting from Dublin to cork on a given day?

You would loose an hour waiting for your van or car to charge.

Hugely unreliastic.

gctest50 · 17-06-2019 6:16pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

What about trucks tractors vans etc?

Easy - increase the price of diesel to match price of petrol

Trucks, large vans have electronic tachos for years.

Upload yer tacho to new Revenenue website to get the few extra cent per litre back

No upload shiny electronic tacho ? no money back for you

If the Green Party got into government are they mad

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