Console. Charity, Irish-style

eviltwin · 02-07-2016 8:27pm

Mary63 wrote: »

It still doesnt explain why he should deserve a person of the year award.

I dont know why he should deserve this,its not as if all the money fundraised or all the public money donated has actually made a shred of difference,how could a CEO of a charity deserve special praise when the helplines to the charity have been cut,the staff arent even being paid the miserable wage due and even the landlord cant get rent due.The charity hasnt a single asset even though its in existence for years and lo and behold its offices are situated in a house owned by wait for it,the CEO.I wonder what rent the Kellys were getting for the office premises,surely this is all very unethical.

The general public vote for the nominees. I reckon a lot of people were impressed by Kelly in the midst of his own family tragedy, trying to help others yada yada yada. Little did they realise.

02-07-2016 8:27pm

Maireadio wrote: »

I volunteered for a small animal charity, one of the small county SPCAs in the country.

Every year, they get a grant of €7000 from the government and make about the same in monetary donations. They also receive a fair bit of non-monetary donations (food, bedding, toys etc.). Literally nearly every penny they receive goes toward caring for the animals and maintaining the kennels and cattery to an acceptable standard with a small amount going towards administration. The founders of the charity are unpaidand they work damn hard. Not all charities are greedy and are worthy of donations.

I volunteered with a charity similar to the one you describe, not taking in a lot of money and small. From where I stood it seemed legit, turns out it wasn't - I concluded from that experience years ago that the only people who know what goes on with a charities money are the people with access to it...

Mary63 · 02-07-2016 8:36pm

He wasnt in the midst of his own family tragedy though,his sister died years ago.Seemingly she was dead for seven years by the time Paul Kelly arrived back from his Australian exile and it appears he saw the opportunity then to get paid for talking about suicide.To be honest there are an awful lot of people paid to ponder about suicide and I think thats the reason Kelly got away with this for so long.It would have been seen to be beyond the pale to question anything to do with suicide funding because its such an emotive topic.

maryishere · 02-07-2016 8:40pm

222233 wrote: »

I volunteered with a charity similar to the one you describe, not taking in a lot of money and small. From where I stood it seemed legit, turns out it wasn't - I concluded from that experience years ago that the only people who know what goes on with a charities money are the people with access to it...

Precisely. I know only two peope who work for charities. One earns well over €100,000 per year from the charity. The other works in a small charity but has a really good lifestyle, lots of designer clothes, holidays etc. There are far too many charities in Ireland and it is impossible to regulate them all.

eviltwin · 02-07-2016 8:42pm

Mary63 wrote: »

He wasnt in the midst of his own family tragedy though,his sister died years ago.Seemingly she was dead for seven years by the time Paul Kelly arrived back from his Australian exile and it appears he saw the opportunity then to get paid for talking about suicide.To be honest there are an awful lot of people paid to ponder about suicide and I think thats the reason Kelly got away with this for so long.It would have been seen to be beyond the pale to question anything to do with suicide funding because its such an emotive topic.

But that was his USP. He was someone who'd been there, saw what was needed and filled a gap. It was personal. I can understand people trusting him. You'd think a man who had lost a family member to suicide himself would have a different perspective than the average CEO. Console also provided a service the hse wasn't so it was in their interests to keep it going.

Mary63 · 02-07-2016 8:43pm

The people working in the charity shop gets first dibs on anything decent so your woman is probably wearing designer gear that has been donated.

What does USP mean.

I cant understand how the therapists he employed trusted him,how many were there,he couldnt even pay them on time.They saw his nice clothes,the nice cars he and his wife were driving,the pair must have been permanently tanned,surely if you had half a brain you would question how come your miserable wages couldnt be paid on time.

02-07-2016 8:46pm

maryishere wrote: »

Precisely. I know only two peope who work for charities. One earns well over €100,000 per year from the charity. The other works in a small charity but has a really good lifestyle, lots of designer clothes, holidays etc. There are far too many charities in Ireland and it is impossible to regulate them all.

Exactly !

It would make more sense to group charities i.e have one animal charity and have a branch in each area, let the size of the branch depend on the county instead of having fragments of tiny charities everywhere all doing the same work, bring those people together.

chicorytip · 02-07-2016 8:47pm

Mary63 wrote: »

Who organises people of the year awards and more importantly who funds this.

Surely someone like Paul Kelly with his cars provided,his phone bills paid for,his foreign trips funded,his salary of 91,000 euros is award enough for the job he does.Why should he be nominated for person of the year award,who nominated him and on what grounds.

it cant be for his successful fundraising because the Console staff were happy enough not to be paid on time because somehow or other they thought this was due to cashflow problems,how they could swallow this when Twitter was full of twits blowing about the takings from the non stop fundraising.

So can the people who organise the people of the year gig explain why Paul Kelly was chosen.

His motivation for setting up Console appears to have been genuine - his younger sister took her own life. The level and quality of support provided by the highly competent and dedicated counselling staff appears, by all accounts, to have been excellent. It is safe to assume, therefore, that there are many people who would not be alive today were it not for the help of Console and other similar organisations. This should not be lost sight of. Kelly's betrayal of his organisations supporters, staff and clientele is profound and unforgivable but pales into insignificance when contrasted with the sustained and systematic fraudulent criminality perpetrated by certain members of our banking fraternity over the past decade.

SterlingArcher · 02-07-2016 8:49pm

maryishere wrote: »

Precisely. I know only two peope who work for charities. One earns well over €100,000 per year from the charity. The other works in a small charity but has a really good lifestyle, lots of designer clothes, holidays etc. There are far too many charities in Ireland and it is impossible to regulate them all.

Same. Unfortunately most times it's better to spend that money on someone you know. And make them happier. Than helping buy another expensive bottle of wine for some "charities" dinner night out in a foreign country . The reality of it is charity is just a word and people are sometimes just too selfish for words.

Mary63 · 02-07-2016 8:54pm

There is nothing genuine about this man from start to finish,his first charity which was disbanded failed because his staff refused to allow sharp practices to continue.They are the genuine people who deserve person of the year awards.I dont know what the motivation for setting up the first charity was and nor can I understand why someone would pretend to be ordained or why they would pretend to be a doctor.

If I was asked to nominate anyone I would nominate the Garda whistleblowers.

Saying what Paul Kelly did is insignificant is just wrong,he has undermined the whole charity sector in this country and everyone who now works for charities will be viewed with deep suspicion.

There would be a lot more people alive if Console didnt exist.The HSE transferred huge sums of taxpayers money to Paul Kellys slush fund,this money could have been used to employ fully qualified personnel around the country,it could ave been used to provide twenty four hour helplines,it could have been used to provide in patient beds,the list is endless.

Maireadio · 02-07-2016 9:04pm

222233 wrote: »

I volunteered with a charity similar to the one you describe, not taking in a lot of money and small. From where I stood it seemed legit, turns out it wasn't - I concluded from that experience years ago that the only people who know what goes on with a charities money are the people with access to it...

Well, from what I can see of the one I volunteered, there'd be little money left over to misappropiate. The animals were very well cared for too.

Mary63 · 02-07-2016 9:24pm

The cars have been re possessed,it wouldnt look good for the kellys to be ringing Joe Duffy to say they have to sleep in their expensive cars.

Hope all "their" property is taken by CAB now.

gordongekko · 02-07-2016 9:30pm

Help!!!! wrote: »

He also dressed as a pilot & walked around Dublin trying to pick up women

Haven't we all

Spanish Eyes · 02-07-2016 9:38pm

Puzzling isn't it, that the conman and his wife and son were given a WEEK to pack up and go before the injunctions were sought.

Now I wonder why that was.

Had he friends in high places.

Water John · 02-07-2016 11:11pm

Follow

Elaine Byrne
‏@ElaineByrne
Visited kids in Christina Noble foundation in Mongolia today. Makes you so fu*king angry to see impact of charity scandals on donations.

Elaine Byrne is monitoring election in Mongolia. That is real damage.

abberr · 03-07-2016 11:23am

I stopped donating money to charities since Rehab scandal and this is just another.

I think people who collect money for charities are fools, and people donating money are even bigger fools. Yes there is lots of good done by charities, but I think whenever there is a loophole to steal and mislead, there will always be at least one to do so, so until there is significant reform in governance of charities, I will spend my money on pints of beer instead (better spent money)

gctest50 · 03-07-2016 5:43pm

The rodent didn't get very far :

It has now been established that Mr Kelly was picked up by gardai in south Dublin on Thursday evening.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/disgraced-console-ceo-paul-kelly-picked-up-by-gardai-for-his-own-personal-safety-34853186.html

Samaris · 03-07-2016 7:00pm

Good, I'm glad he's been caught. And I hope they throw the book at him, not just for his dishonesty and theft (and damage to suicide services in Ireland), but for the bad rap he's now given charities in general until people start to forget this lowlife. And for the serious knock he's given to the unfortunate hard-working people in Console who have had their names and work tarnished through no fault of their own.

Sorry about that, gctest, I was trying to quote and I hit the edit button! Not used to that button being there yet *embarrassed look*

pablo128 · 03-07-2016 7:08pm

It appears he was picked up in Dun Laoghaire and arrested for 'his own safety'. Maybe he was contemplating something he was tasked with preventing.

Simon2015 · 03-07-2016 7:37pm

This Paul Kelly character seemed to have been a professional con man his whole life.

When he was not running charities he was also pretending to be a Doctor, a Priest, and an Airline Pilot.

Its amazing this guy was able to get away with what he did for so long.

Simon2015 · 03-07-2016 7:48pm

maryishere wrote: »

Precisely. I know only two peope who work for charities. One earns well over €100,000 per year from the charity. The other works in a small charity but has a really good lifestyle, lots of designer clothes, holidays etc. There are far too many charities in Ireland and it is impossible to regulate them all.

They should put a maximum wage limit of 50k a year on charity CEO's if they can't live off 50k then they shouldn't be working in the charity sector.

stateofflux · 03-07-2016 8:01pm

In My opinion the Government is at fault for the mess. A lot of charities are doing work a government body should be doing. So the government just let them at it and prop them up with additional funding.

The amount of charities in this countries (most of which serve absolutely no purpose) is ridiculous.

the good generous nature of Irish people is a vast money pit ripe for the plunder. Enough is enough.

brooke 2 · 03-07-2016 8:09pm

Simon2015 wrote: »

They should put a maximum wage limit of 50k a year on charity CEO's if they can't live off 50k then they shouldn't be working in the charity sector.

I agree. Am so tired of hearing about the charity 'industry'. Most of the money raised for a cause should go to that cause, not the minimum amount, as seems to be the case in a lot of these charities/foundations. Let's hope the HSE reveals the details of the other suspect charities, and puts a halt to their gallop!

lawlolawl · 03-07-2016 8:13pm

stateofflux wrote: »

In My opinion the Government is at fault for the mess. A lot of charities are doing work a government body should be doing. So the government just let them at it and prop them up with additional funding.

The amount of charities in this countries (most of which serve absolutely no purpose) is ridiculous.

the good generous nature of Irish people is a vast money pit ripe for the plunder. Enough is enough.

Nah, even if these services were adequately funded the chancers would find something else to set up charities/organisations for.

There is a class of people in this country who are heads of organisations, serial board members etc. who don't have any real job but just end up in positions of trust due to networking and pure neck. We'll never get around that.

Birdsong · 03-07-2016 8:19pm

Maireadio wrote: »

I've always thought there is way too much overlapping of charities when there should just be a handful for each issue/illness/whatever.

So many people set up a charity after a loved one dies of a disease or after experiencing a tragedy, as a way of honouring that person. Do they ever stop and consider whether there is a need for the charity they wish to found?

Agree with you on this, I often think it a selfish thing to do, would they not be better off giving a sum of money towards an organisation that works in the field. For example the Hospice Foundation .

brooke 2 · 03-07-2016 8:30pm

lawlolawl wrote: »

Nah, even if these services were adequately funded the chancers would find something else to set up charities/organisations for.

There is a class of people in this country who are heads of organisations, serial board members etc. who don't have any real job but just end up in positions of trust due to networking and pure neck. We'll never get around that.

If there were adequate oversight, they would not be able to get away with plundering these charities. It seems many governments were
more than happy to throw money at the various organisations who seemed to be carrying out the work which they should have been doing.

lawlolawl · 03-07-2016 8:38pm

brooke 2 wrote: »

If there were adequate oversight, they would not be able to get away with plundering these charities. It seems many governments were
more than happy to throw money at the various organisations who seemed to be carrying out the work which they should have been doing.

Look at what happened with FAS.

Being a government agency or having government oversight doesn't stop dodgy chancers from being dodgy chancers.

Samaris · 03-07-2016 8:54pm

I guess part of it is that one would -really- not expect someone to stoop so low as to profit from his sister's suicide like this.

I mean...wow, there's being scummy and there's being primordial ooze levels of scummy.

selastich2 · 03-07-2016 9:32pm

picked up "for his own protection", I can see where this is going. In other new 2million in secret top up payment to SJOG

http

/www .independent.ie/irish-news/hse-to-investigate-2m-in-secret-payments-to-st-john-of-gods-senior-managers-34853663.html

Xyzforsure · 03-07-2016 10:35pm

Simon2015 wrote: »

They should put a maximum wage limit of 50k a year on charity CEO's if they can't live off 50k then they shouldn't be working in the charity sector.

No chance of recruiting a CEO for that money

Mary63 · 03-07-2016 10:42pm

Kelly is in hospital now,he was picked up by the Gardai in Dunlaoghaire for his own safety.

He is probably in John of Gods in Stillorgan now,thats where Graham Dwyer went when his victims bag was found in the reservoir.

He can apply for a job now in SJOGs.

The people examining Consoles books are now looking at five properties in total and thats just in Ireland,I presume the Console offices are all located in these properties and they are all owned by the Kellys,probably all rented to Console,one is an eight bedroomed house in Galway.I wonder who owns the nice office in Westminister.

pablo128 · 03-07-2016 10:43pm

Xyzforsure wrote: »

No chance of recruiting a CEO for that money

Plenty of people out there would take a 1k a week job, no matter what it was.

maudgonner · 03-07-2016 10:50pm

Xyzforsure wrote: »

No chance of recruiting a CEO for that money

That's a line that has been repeated a lot when discussion of charity salaries comes up. And I see the logic to it - if you want to run a major company the CEO would expect a salary much higher than that.

BUT we have thousands of charities in Ireland, they're not all major corporations. And in the case of Console and many others, they are not recruiting people worth that kind of money, they're clearly giving CEO positions to people who have no qualifications or experience to justify anything remotely like that money. But it was handed to them, or more accurately they handed it to themselves.

So clearly paying huge salaries does not get us the calibre of people that it should. And paying huge salaries may well attract the wrong kind of people. I'd far rather see someone at the head of a charity who is genuinely passionate to be there and makes sacrifices to do so, than someone who is in it for the paycheck.

Mary63 · 03-07-2016 10:52pm

I doubt if any of the CEOS of the bigger Irish charities are working for less than 100,000 euros.

They CEOS would cut services rather than take pay cuts themselves,this is what happened in Barnardos recently and its CEO Fergus Finlay is on over 100,000 euros.

What exactly does Barnardos do does anyone know.Its shops are a bit tatty looking,does this organisation get most of its funding from the HSE too.

We have generous social welfare payments,subsidised public housing,medical cards,back to school allowances,why do we need organisations like Barnardos in this country.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/horse-charity-boss-steps-down-after-complaint-to-regulator-1.2707333

I read this yesterday and thought here we go another one.How come the Charity regulator could get involved here,it was the volunteers who complained about this charity,how come the Console staff and volunteers didn't make complaints to the charity regulator.The manager of I think the Cork console office knew the contract staff weren't being paid,he must have known the phone lines and the rent wasn't being paid either,surely as a manager these problems were something he should have concerned himself with,what was the point of paying someone to manage an office if everything was being left up to "lets call Paul".

Simon2015 · 03-07-2016 11:07pm

Charity CEO's Adi Roche (cheronobyl children) and Maureen Forrest (hope foundation) both work for free.

Thats what I call real charity workers.

Also we have Brid Leahy of ASH Ireland who only takes a 36k salary.

The idea that you have to pay charity CEO's 6 figure salaries to get the "best people" is nonsense. By paying out that kind of money you will only attract charlatans.

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-charity-ceo-salaries-spending-best-practice-2659408-Mar2016/

Spanish Eyes · 03-07-2016 11:15pm

Too many Charities, too many CEOs. Too many egos who will not merge with like minded Charities.

Too little regulation, too much money given without adequate scrutiny. HSE blind to it all.

The Paul Kelly person is being replicated everywhere. But who knows, who cares, who regulates?

Must be who you know at this stage.

Mary63 · 03-07-2016 11:17pm

Barnardos has 365 employees,what are all these people doing.

I think most of the staff working in the shops are volunteers,they often have notices in the window looking for volunteers anyway.

What could 365 people be doing in a country that has very high Child Benefit payments,I genuinely don't understand child poverty in this country,if you are very poor do you not get everything for free.

Spanish Eyes · 03-07-2016 11:18pm

Simon2015 wrote: »

Charity CEO's Adi Roche (cheronobyl children) and Maureen Forrest (hope foundation) both work for free.

Thats what I call real charity workers.

Also we have Brid Leahy of ASH Ireland who only takes a 36k salary.

The idea that you have to pay charity CEO's 6 figure salaries to get the "best people" is nonsense. By paying out that kind of money you will only attract charlatans.

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-charity-ceo-salaries-spending-best-practice-2659408-Mar2016/

ASH Ireland are fanatics. I am a non smoker and I cannot stand them, sorry, and 36k to tell us all that smoking is bad. Come on! There are so many others telling us smoking is bad, all getting loadsa dough aswell huh.

Kudos to those who do not take a salary. That is very rare indeed.

Charities in this country are not regulated. All they get is Revenue exemption as a charity. Then off they go. Nothing, even if public funds are given.

As we can see with Paul Kelly and family.

Disgraceful. But hey ho. This is Ireland.

pablo128 · 03-07-2016 11:20pm

Mary63 wrote: »

Barnardos has 365 employees,what are all these people doing.

I think most of the staff working in the shops are volunteers,they often have notices in the window looking for volunteers anyway.

What could 365 people be doing in a country that has very high Child Benefit payments,I genuinely don't understand child poverty in this country,if you are very poor do you not get everything for free.

How would you get everything for free?

And child benefit is only paid until the child is 7 yrs old now.

maxwell smart · 03-07-2016 11:25pm

It's time the whole charity scam was exposed for what it is - jobs for the girls and boys.

The chief fundraiser of a large charity would expect to be on a MINIMUM of €180k a year.

I have attended some of these 'charity fundraisers' and they don't add up. There are prizes galore, sometimes they are in the Intercontinental (was 4 seasons), top quality food and drink on tap. When I do the maths the money paid must only cover a small return once the costs are stripped out. Most of these charities have PR companies on a retainer, that's a minimum of €6k a month for 20 hours work, plus seperate fees for events.

The 'papers' won't expose this as they are the biggest culprits, I lost track of how many 'journalists' (Yes Barry Egan I'm looking at you) go to these things.

This country is a joke. Time to talk to Joe.....

Spanish Eyes · 03-07-2016 11:26pm

pablo128 wrote: »

How would you get everything for free?

And child benefit is only paid until the child is 7 yrs old now.

Sorry that is incorrect. Child benefit is much more generous than that. We are a great country really.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/child_benefit.html

Mary63 · 03-07-2016 11:35pm

Child Benefit is 140 euros a month per child and paid until the child is eighteen as long as the child is in full time education.

I checked,you get one hundred euros per child in primary school if you qualify for Back to school allowance and two hundred euros per child in secondary school.You could easily kit out a primary school child for one hundred euros and you could probably get most of a secondary school uniform for less than two hundred euros.

Do people get further help towards books and iPads etc for secondary school.

Broken Hearted Road · 03-07-2016 11:52pm

I wasn't following this from the beginning and only learned about this in recent days and what went on here is absolutely disposable. I never donated money to Console but clearly there are people who do. The recession brought about many difficulties for many people and no doubt people would have donated with limited budgets and then to have these people in charge of this charity milking it of donations is sickening. Not only that with suicide, it's hits people. Suicide here in Ireland has been epic and no doubt with the recession financial problems could have been a factor with some suicides. This whole thing is sickening.

As for supporting charities:
There are a few charities that I like and support whenever I can whether it's by donating belongings into a shop or give g some euros into a charity collection bucket or whatever every once in a while. A few local animal charities and a cancer charity but my favourite is Enable Ireland. TK Maxx have collection boxes for Enable Ireland. If I have a spare euro or a few, I pop that in.

There are other charities that I honest to god wouldn't even look at. I was stopped on the street before by amnesty international and I didn't like them one bit. The guy went yapping away and bla, bla, bla, from him and something on the lines of 'and for the price of a pint and you could help support us and pushing a form requesting for bank details'. I found him to be a bit arrogant. As if I drink every week and have the money to give up. I thought: like, you don't know me or anything about me or anything about my life or my income which is piss fcuking poor by the way.

If we all gave pieces of our income away every week to every bucket pusher, there would be a need for more charities to say the least.

lawlolawl · 03-07-2016 11:58pm

Mary63 wrote: »

What could 365 people be doing in a country that has very high Child Benefit payments,I genuinely don't understand child poverty in this country,if you are very poor do you not get everything for free.

You could give people an infinite amount of money in child benefit, back to school allowance etc. but it won't prevent child poverty if they just spend it all on fags, booze, holidays or whatever else these people are wasting it on. It's long past time we issued food stamps to the long term unemployed or gave them some form of charge card that could only be used for certain essential products.

There is a certain sizable sector of the population who are just milking the system and charities are just another part of the system to be milked. Put on the poor mouth and not only will you get money from all angles but people will treat you like a sacred cow.

brooke 2 · 03-07-2016 11:58pm

maudgonner wrote: »

That's a line that has been repeated a lot when discussion of charity salaries comes up. And I see the logic to it - if you want to run a major company the CEO would expect a salary much higher than that.

BUT we have thousands of charities in Ireland, they're not all major corporations. And in the case of Console and many others, they are not recruiting people worth that kind of money, they're clearly giving CEO positions to people who have no qualifications or experience to justify anything remotely like that money. But it was handed to them, or more accurately they handed it to themselves.

So clearly paying huge salaries does not get us the calibre of people that it should. And paying huge salaries may well attract the wrong kind of people. I'd far rather see someone at the head of a charity who is genuinely passionate to be there and makes sacrifices to do so, than someone who is in it for the paycheck.

Pay peanuts, get monkeys. How many times have we heard this trotted out? Makes me sick! Those 'noble' CEOs, on obscene salaries, as we have seen so often, would sooner deprive the needy of their services than reduce their totally inappropriate wages by one cent. In my opinion, these are not the type of people we need at the helm of charities. They have proven, time and time again, that they are obsessed by the 'almighty dollar', to the detriment of those whom they are pretending to help. :mad:

Broken Hearted Road · 03-07-2016 11:59pm

stateofflux wrote: »

In My opinion the Government is at fault for the mess. A lot of charities are doing work a government body should be doing. So the government just let them at it and prop them up with additional funding.

The amount of charities in this countries (most of which serve absolutely no purpose) is ridiculous.

the good generous nature of Irish people is a vast money pit ripe for the plunder. Enough is enough.

100% this and was my thoughts too. There is one charity that I'm fond of - Enable Ireland - I think they do great work in which I'm familiar with and I think it should come in under the work of the HSE.

brooke 2 · 04-07-2016 12:01am

Simon2015 wrote: »

Charity CEO's Adi Roche (cheronobyl children) and Maureen Forrest (hope foundation) both work for free.

Thats what I call real charity workers.

Also we have Brid Leahy of ASH Ireland who only takes a 36k salary.

The idea that you have to pay charity CEO's 6 figure salaries to get the "best people" is nonsense. By paying out that kind of money you will only attract charlatans.

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-charity-ceo-salaries-spending-best-practice-2659408-Mar2016/

Absolutely!

lawlolawl · 04-07-2016 12:03am

Broken Hearted Road wrote: »

100% this and was my thoughts too. There is one charity that I'm fond of - Enable Ireland - I think they do great work in which I'm familiar with and I think it should come in under the work of the HSE.

And even if that happened someone would still set up some form of charity independent of the HSE and use it to take money from well meaning people.

The entire charity industry is a sham at its core and i genuinely feel bad for the people who got involved to actually try and make a difference. Ironic that they are usually the ones who aren't getting any compensation for their time.

Shint0 · 04-07-2016 2:30am

selastich2 wrote: »

picked up "for his own protection", I can see where this is going. In other new 2million in secret top up payment to SJOG

http /www .independent.ie/irish-news/hse-to-investigate-2m-in-secret-payments-to-st-john-of-gods-senior-managers-34853663.html

While for the most part SJOG staff on the ground are excellent in their care and advocacy for people with disabilities, to my knowledge their senior management wouldn't be beyond reproach and resorting to underhand tactics to protect their 'squeaky clean' image which has come in for some criticism publicly in more recent times.

While any payments to top up salaries most likely came from the organisation's own private funds it would still appear to contravene HSE pay regulations if it is true so will be interesting to see what defense they come up with and what spin they try to put on it if the issue comes before the Public Accounts Committee.

Around the issue that employees and heads of charitable/non-government organisations should only be paid around or just above average industrial wage, I can't necessarily agree with that. That's back to the old argument that Moore McDowell tried to put forward years ago around nurses pay that it's a vocation.

If people have relevant third level education, are professionally trained and experienced they ought to command the same pay level as other professions and industries at a similar level. The issue is around trying to root out and eradicate abuse of the sector rather than trying to penalise those who genuinely are interested in social progress and working on behalf of social justice initiatives while trying to serve the needs of the most vulnerable.

diomed · 04-07-2016 2:37am

A proverb that expresses the overriding demands of taking care of one's family, before caring for others.
'Charity begins at home' isn't from the bible but it is so near to being so that it is reasonable to describe it as biblical. The notion that a man's family should be his foremost concern is expressed in 1 Timothy 5:8, King James Bible, 1611:
But if any prouide not for his owne, & specially for those of his owne house, hee hath denied the faith, and is worse then an infidel.

John Wyclif had expressed the same idea as early as 1382, in Of Prelates, reprinted in English Works, 1880:
Charite schuld bigyne at hem-self.

John Fletcher came very close to using the phrase in the comedy Wit without Money, circa 1625:
Charity and beating begins at home.

Sir Thomas Browne was the first to put the expression into print in the form we now use, in Religio Medici, 1642:
Charity begins at home, is the voice of the world: yet is every man his greatest enemy.

Console. Charity, Irish-style

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