2018-2027 National Development Plan

marno21 · 24-01-2018 10:24pm #1

Given the fact that the announcement of this plan is just around the corner in addition to the National Planning Framework being published this is a really important plan for roads funding and the future, hence the new thread.

This plan sets out investment priorities out to 2027/8 and will define the future of roadbuilding in Ireland for the next decade.

The status of the current Capital Plan (out to 2022) is as follows:

Schemes with planning:

* N4 Collooney to Castlebaldwin - tender, to start 2018
* N5 Westport to Turlough - to start 2021
* M7 Naas/Newbridge bypass - under construction
* N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange - to start Q1 2019
* N22 Macroom to Ballyvourney - to start Q1 2020
* N56 Mountcharles to Inver - Phase 1 start 2018, Phase 2 start 2020
* N56 Dungloe-Glenties - 2/6 parts open, 1/6 at tender, 3/6 parts at planning
* N59 Moycullen bypass - to start 2021

Schemes pending planning:

* N2 Slane bypass - at route selection stage
* N6 Galway City Ring Road - planning submission Q1 2018, ready to go 2021
* M21 Adare to Rathkeale to Foynes - planning submission Q1 2018
* M28 Cork to Ringaskiddy - planning decision pending
* N72/N73 Mallow Relief Road - route selection

Beyond this, there are a number of pipeline schemes that will likely feature in the plan:

Additional schemes with planning:

* N52 Ardee bypass - to start 2018
* N59 Westport-Mulranny - being done in parts
* N69 Listowel bypass - to start before 2021
* N86 Tralee-Dingle - being done in parts

Additional active schemes pending planning:

* N2 Ardee-Castleblayney - pending
* N2 Clontibret-NI border - pending
* N5 Ballaghaderreen-Scramoge - planning decision pending
* N11/M11 Bray to Kilmacanogue - feasibility study
* N13/N56 Letterkenny DC upgrade + relief road- planning
* N14 Letterkenny to Lifford - planning
* N15 Ballybofey/Stranorlar bypass - planning
* N20 Cork-Limerick - route selection and design
* N55 Athlone-Ballymahon - feasibility study

Additional schemes pending full reactivation/at pre appraisal stage:

* N2 Ashbourne-Kilmoon Cross
* N3 Virginia bypass
* N4 Carrick-on-Shannon to Dromod
* N4 Mullingar-Roosky
* N11/N25 Oilgate-Rosslare Harbour
* N14/N15 to A5 Link
* N17 Knock to Tobercurry
* N17 Collooney-Tobercurry
* N21 Abbeyfeale relief road
* N21 Newcastlewest relief road
* N22 Farranfore to Killarney
* N24 Cahir to Waterford
* N24 Cahir-Limerick Junction
* N25 Waterford-Glenmore
* N25 Carrigtwohill-Midleton
* N40 Cork North Ring Road
* N52 Tullamore-Kilbeggan

The bulk of the plan will likely be from the above. Alan Kelly and others have been shouting about ensuring the projects in the new plan are fully appraised and that there are no undeserving political inclusions. All above projects are currently undergoing appraisal to ensure that they are compatible for inclusion in the Capital Plan, although I can't see any of them that would be rejected simply due to the fact that all are fairly to the point are not "vanity projects" by any defintion of the term.

There are over 100 minor schemes in planning which may feature due to their large "bang for your buck" element, mainly on national secondaries.

mickmmc · 25-01-2018 3:42pm

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/regional-plans-city-bias-sparks-rural-uprising-36519796.html

A row has developed over the National Planning Framework which is due to be launched at the same time as the 10 Year Investment Plan.

The rural TDs feel that the NDP 2040 is too city focused.

Also, Fergus O' Dowd has stated that he could lose his seat if Drogheda is not granted city status; he said he is being told that by constituents at the doorsteps. Down the road, Senator O' Reilly wants city status for Swords. Also, Sligo is looking for city status.

The Capital Plan could be delayed.

Donegal Storm · 25-01-2018 4:05pm

Yes because the 'one for everyone in the audience' approach to urban planning has worked wonders in the past :rolleyes:

Drogheda and Swords are commuter towns, Sligo is no more a city than Letterkenny or Athlone. It's encouraging to hear that the new plan is urban focused but no doubt we'll end up with a watered down version that tries to please every dead end village in the country.

Hopefully FG have the bottle to push it through

marno21 · 27-01-2018 3:08pm

Aside from the political elements, there desperately needs to be ambition in this plan. There was zero ambition in the last plan, just a few disconnected shovel ready schemes, being progressed at a rate of 1 or so per year.

The 2016-2022 Capital Plan allocates €730m for the capital spend on national roads during this time. There was minor increases to this in the review to include the Ardee bypass, Listowel bypass and planning money for Cork-Limerick.

Back during the Transport 21 days, there was months were €500m PER MONTH was being spent on roads. This was indicative of the mindset at the time and we will never see the likes again.

There is, however, a happy medium. We should be seeing the 8 projects in the Capital Plan being built every 18 months or so. There is such a backlog that it's causing poorly distributed economic growth because certain parts of the country are strangled because of the poor road infrastructure and the painful delays in getting them built.

27-01-2018 5:53pm

marno21 wrote: »

Back during the Transport 21 days, there was months were €500m PER MONTH was being spent on roads. This was indicative of the mindset at the time and we will never see the likes again.

That was back when the boom times kept getting "boomier" due to the insanely over-heated property market and the mountain of stamp duty it created. Mindset had little to do with it imho, they had to use up the cash and mways were the best way to do it.

Things are on a more sustainable footing now, as you point out, and there will be a steady stream of works for years to come albeit at a slower pace

marno21 · 27-01-2018 7:18pm

Yes indeed

I believe under Transport21 there was around 1.5-2bn spend on capital roads spending annually. We are now averaging at 120m annually over the course of this new Capital Plan. There needs to be a middle ground with at least 4 schemes being done annually, there is too much of a backlog

Middle Man · 27-01-2018 7:31pm

marno21 wrote: »

Yes indeed

I believe under Transport21 there was around 1.5-2bn spend on capital roads spending annually. We are now averaging at 120m annually over the course of this new Capital Plan. There needs to be a middle ground with at least 4 schemes being done annually, there is too much of a backlog

Even if roads spending as per the capital plan stayed the same, a massive increase in rail investment would be acceptable - Dublin needs an underground rail system now - Cork should get at least its own bus services if not one or two tram lines - Limerick should also be explored for light rail potential and Galway certainly needs its own tram line (this should be part of the M6 GCRR scheme). Also, the avoidance of inappropriate traffic calming on main urban roads could be seen as increased capacity by default (would cost absolutely nothing) - spend that money on new trains (or train refurbishment) instead!

27-01-2018 8:27pm

As the motorways finish, capital will divert to other areas of infrastructure, rail, sea, air, bus etc

That being said, light rail is not viable outside of the capital for at least another 20 years, double that in Galway and I say that as a Galway native

marno21 · 27-01-2018 8:34pm

I would hope the entire DART Expansion plan is included, and some very low hanging fruit in Cork included (new stations, fleet expansion).

In roads terms, there is a lot to be done. Alan Kelly quite rightly pointed out recently at how poorly accessible our ports are. The road infrastructure to Rosslare, Foynes and Ringaskiddy is very poor. There should be heavy upgrades of the N20, N24, N25, N28 (as programmed).

Lot of regional access issues too, N15, N17, N20, N21, N22 etc.

AugustusMinimus · 27-01-2018 8:49pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As the motorways finish, capital will divert to other areas of infrastructure, rail, sea, air, bus etc

That being said, light rail is not viable outside of the capital for at least another 20 years, double that in Galway and I say that as a Galway native

As the Dockland developments proceed in Cork and other projects such as the UCC / CIT Science Park, Eilton Dhopping Centre Redevelopment, City Gate 3 and the much vaunted Beamish Site go ahead, then a BRT line between Mahon and Ballincollig will be feasible. It should be built with future conversion to light rail in mind.

City Centre - St Finbarrs Hospital - Douglas - Airport would be another future possible line.

Aontachtoir · 02-02-2018 3:44am

So...still no word on the updated Capital Plan due to be released with last October's budget? Anyone hear of any progress or firm dates?

marno21 · 02-02-2018 3:48am

Aontachtoir wrote: »

So...still no word on the updated Capital Plan due to be released with last October's budget? Anyone hear of any progress or firm dates?

Leo said yesterday they are still working on it and expect it to be published in the next few weeks

My guess is that they had it finalised and certain TDs weren't happy about how many projects in their constituency were included - hence the delay

Aontachtoir · 02-02-2018 5:14am

marno21 wrote: »

Leo said yesterday they are still working on it and expect it to be published in the next few weeks

There'll be another election before it's published at this rate :blink:

sea12 · 02-02-2018 11:41am

marno21 wrote: »

Leo said yesterday they are still working on it and expect it to be published in the next few weeks

My guess is that they had it finalised and certain TDs weren't happy about how many projects in their constituency were included - hence the delay

Yes I think that was alluded to during the week when some politician can't remember his name was mentioning that it was being discussed at cabinet. Problem is with all the independents they all want something for their local area and it could become watered down very quickly.

Donegal Storm · 03-02-2018 12:06am

I'd really like to get behind Fine Gael given the general health of the economy but their chronic indifference to infrastructure is just depressing. As said above there could be another election before its even announced at this rate, at which point no doubt we'd scrap all the work done and pay millions to do it all over again.

I'm still hopeful it might actually be an ambitious program worth the wait but the delay is symptomatic to how things have been for the past decade, lots of announcements and false dawns and nothing ever actually progressing at more than a snails pace

marno21 · 06-02-2018 8:09pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/national-development-plan-to-commit-to-spending-115bn-1.3381395

€115bn in the Capital Plan. Surely more for roads than the €730m given between 2016 and 2022.d

Nidgeweasel · 08-02-2018 10:38pm

What are the realistic prospects of the Virginia - Cavan road (N3) being done?

marno21 · 08-02-2018 10:42pm

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

What are the realistic prospects of the Virginia - Cavan road (N3) being done?

It's in the running for inclusion in this plan

We'll hear for sure in the next few weeks

Aontachtoir · 09-02-2018 3:32am

According to the Times, next Friday (the 16th) will see a special Cabinet meeting in County Sligo to discuss the new capital plan (now officially named the National Development Plan) and the National Planning Framework. Both the NDP and NPF are now expected to be launched following that meeting. Can't wait to see what goodies are lined up.

Link (behind paywall, can be accessed with a private browser): https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/galway-cork-west-dublin-hospitals-to-come-under-capital-plan-1.3385852

marno21 · 11-02-2018 1:09am

Tomorrows Times says that the N4 Mullingar-Longford is in the Capital Plan. Unclear if this will include the part to Rooskey.

Donegal Storm · 11-02-2018 1:10pm

In response to lobbying by rural TDs, the government will also announce on Friday that Athlone and Sligo are to be regional capitals for the midlands and the northwest, and it will promise to upgrade the N4 road from Mullingar to Longford to dual- carriageway standard.

Drogheda, Dundalk and Letterkenny will be named as “designated centres for growth” to allay rural TDs’ complaints over a “city-centric” development framework. However, there will be no funding to extend the western rail corridor from Athenry to Claremorris or to lay a dual carriageway from Tuam to Letterkenny.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cork-limerick-motorway-will-hurt-the-regions-fkc09sr62

Aontachtoir · 11-02-2018 3:38pm

No funding for the road all the way from Tuam to Letterkenny, but hopefully we can expect the previously discussed improvements to the N17 from the N5 through county Sligo to the N4 to get the green light.

marno21 · 11-02-2018 3:40pm

Aontachtoir wrote: »

No funding for the road all the way from Tuam to Letterkenny, but hopefully we can expect the previously discussed improvements to the N17 from the N5 through county Sligo to the N4 to get the green light.

N17 Knock-Collooney was up for contention but no word yet if it made it in.

The N15 Ballybofey/Stranorlar bypass was activated in late 2016 and will likely be included as it is active at the minute.

marno21 · 14-02-2018 12:27am

2 days until this is published.

So far we have the M20 confirmed and the N4 DC to Longford looks highly likely. That's about €1.1bn there, which is €400m more than the last Capital Plan in terms of projects. The projects that had planning money allocated in the last plan but no construction funding will also likely be funded (N2 Slane, N6 Galway, M21 Adare-Foynes, M28 & N72). Those projects will cost about another billion. The two N2 projects that were reactivated if included will account for another 400m or so. We're already at 2.5bn there including 3 mega projects which must raise the question of whether there will be PPPs or not.

Aontachtoir · 14-02-2018 3:55am

marno21 wrote: »

The two N2 projects that were reactivated if included will account for another 400m or so.

I think the N2 segments from the border to Ardee are definitely going to make it in. Considering Leo's repeated statements that he wants a motorway to the "north-west", the somewhat manufactured furore over rural Ireland (i.e. Donegal) being "neglected", and the fact that an FG government linking Derry to Dublin before Derry is even properly linked to Belfast would play well with Sinn Féin voters in the border regions, the stars are aligned for a major upgrade to N2 in the capital plan.

Pete_Cavan · 14-02-2018 10:16am

marno21 wrote: »

We're already at 2.5bn there including 3 mega projects which must raise the question of whether there will be PPPs or not.

Surely the M20 is likely to be a PPP, particularly if some part of the NRR is included?

marno21 · 16-02-2018 1:03am

Tomorrow's Examiner says that the new plan includes the M20 (wow!), the N86 Tralee (Camp) to Dingle, and the Macroom bypass (fully funded in the existing Capital Plan).

markodaly · 16-02-2018 1:18am

marno21 wrote: »

Tomorrow's Examiner says that the new plan includes the M20 (wow!), the N86 Tralee (Camp) to Dingle, and the Macroom bypass (fully funded in the existing Capital Plan).

So, no real surprises really. The latter two are already being done under the existing plan.

marno21 · 16-02-2018 1:20am

markodaly wrote: »

So, no real surprises really. The latter two are already being done under the existing plan.

The N86 isn't in fairness, only 4km of it is being done at present as a minor safety scheme.

The rest would be a welcome improvement.

The lack of shovel ready schemes (or even schemes in planning) is an issue.

marno21 · 16-02-2018 3:43am

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-from-the-atlantic-corridor-to-20000-school-places-how-the-116bn-investment-in-irelands-future-will-be-spent-36609590.html

Tomorrow's Indo makes a vague reference to the Atlantic corridor being included - we'll find out in full tomorrow.

zmgakt7uw2dvfs · 16-02-2018 5:48am

If Limerick and Waterford are truly to be hubs, a fully upgraded type-2 DC N24 is a no brainer, right?

roadmaster · 16-02-2018 9:33am

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-from-the-atlantic-corridor-to-20000-school-places-how-the-116bn-investment-in-irelands-future-will-be-spent-36609590.html

Tomorrow's Indo makes a vague reference to the Atlantic corridor being included - we'll find out in full tomorrow.

I wonder will it be the same atlantic corridor mentioned a decade ago

Cookiemunster · 16-02-2018 9:59am

Viviana Colossal Tracker wrote: »

If Limerick and Waterford are truly to be hubs, a fully upgraded type-2 DC N24 is a no brainer, right?

The original Atlantic Corridor linked Limerick to Waterford via Cork. So M20, NRR and M25.

roadmaster · 16-02-2018 10:14am

Did it also include Tuam to Letterkenny/Derry?

Masala · 16-02-2018 10:17am

Anyone got a link to the report???? What does it say on Knock Airport--- I heard it mentioned on News this morning!

marno21 · 16-02-2018 2:26pm

The Atlantic Corridor reference so far seems to be Tuam-Letterkenny, as Letterkenny and Sligo have been announced as regional hubs

I'd imagine the N17 Knock-Tobercurry-Collooney and the N15 Ballybofey-Stranorlar for definite.

marno21 · 16-02-2018 3:12pm

Projects included in the new Capital Plan:

Inter urban roads:

M20 Cork-Limerick + possible N40 North Ring Road
N6 Galway Ring Road
M7 Naas/Newbridge bypass upgrade (already under construction)
N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange (already fully funded)
N69 Listowel bypass (already fully funded)
M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy
M21 Limerick-Foynes
N22 Ballyvourney-Macroom (already fully funded)
N72/N73 Mallow relief road
N59 Moycullen bypass (already fully funded)
N25 New Ross bypass (already fully funded and under construction)
M11 Gorey-Enniscorthy (already fully funded and under construction)

Accessibility to the North West:

N4 Collooney-Castlebaldwin (already fully funded)
N5 Westport-Turlough (already fully funded)
N5 Ballaghaderreen-Scramoge
N52 Ardee bypass (already fully funded)
N2 Slane bypass
N56 Dungloe-Glenties & Mountcharles-Inver (already fully funded)

In addition, another bundle of projects have been reactivated for preappraisal and certain projects will be prioritised for inclusion:

* N2 Clontibret-NI Border
* N2 Ashbourne-Kilmoon Cross
* N2 Ardee-Castleblayney
* N3 Clonee-M50
* N3 Virginia bypass
* M4 Maynooth-Leixlip
* N4 Mullingar-Longford
* N4 Carrick-on-Shannon to Dromod
* M11 M50 to Kilmacanogue
* N11/N25 Oilgate to Rosslare
* N13 Ballybofey/Stranorlar bypass
* N13/N56 Letterkenny relief road + DC upgarde
* N14 Letterkenny-Lifford
* N17 Knock-Collooney (encompassing Knock-Tobercurry/Tobercurry bypass/Tobercurry-Collooney)
* N21 Abbeyfeale releif road
* N21 Newcastlewest relief road
* N24 Cahir to Limerick Junction
* N24 Waterford to Cahir
* N25 Waterford to Glenmore
* M50 Eastern bypass Phase 1: South Port Access
* N52 Kilbeggan to Tullamore

marno21 · 16-02-2018 3:41pm

Breaking this down:

Inter urban roads:

These two are PPPs so I will omit these entirely:
N25 New Ross bypass (already fully funded and under construction)
M11 Gorey-Enniscorthy (already fully funded and under construction)

This is the 4th time these have been announced, as part of Fianna Fail's 2nd PPP tranche, as part of the 2012-2016 plan, as part of the 2015-2022 plan and now the 2018-2027 plan.

These 5 projects are part of the 2016-2022 plan and are fully funded under same.

M7 Naas/Newbridge bypass upgrade (already under construction) - under construction, remainder of funding is ~€55m
N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange (already fully funded) - 2019 start, 2021 finish, expected cost €100m
N69 Listowel bypass (already fully funded) - to start before 2021, expected cost ~€30-40m
N22 Ballyvourney-Macroom (already fully funded) - to start Q1 2020, expected cost €150-160m
N59 Moycullen bypass (already fully funded) - to start 2021, expected cost €20m

There is funding of approx €300m requried to finish these projects, all of which will be done before 2022.

The following projects have funding in the 2016-2022 plan to get them to the "shovel ready stage". It's assumed this plan will fund their construction:

M20 Cork-Limerick + possible N40 North Ring Road - approx €850-900m, should be ready to go around 2022 if fully funded
N6 Galway Ring Road - will be shovel ready in 2021, approx cost €600m
M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy - will be shovel ready by 2020/1, approx cost €160m
M21 Limerick-Foynes - will be shovel ready by 2020/1, approx cost €250m
N72/N73 Mallow relief road - will be shovel ready by 2021/2, approx cost €40-50m

Total cost of the above is around €1.8-2bn

Total cost of the inter urban section is €2.1-2.3bn.

LeinsterDub · 16-02-2018 3:43pm

Any idea what M50 Dublin Port south access this is?

marno21 · 16-02-2018 3:44pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Any idea what M50 Dublin Port south access this is?

Connecting the South Port to the M50/Port Tunnel.

zmgakt7uw2dvfs · 16-02-2018 3:50pm

marno21 wrote: »

Breaking this down:

N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange (already fully funded) - 2019 start, 2021 fi

M20 Cork-Limerick + possible N40 North Ring Road - approx €850-900m, .

How can a 100km plus full blown motorway cost only nine times more than Dunkettle? Either the M20 is very cheap, or Dunkettle is very expensive!

marno21 · 16-02-2018 3:52pm

Viviana Colossal Tracker wrote: »

How can a 100km plus full blown motorway cost only nine times more than Dunkettle? Either the M20 is very cheap, or Dunkettle is very expensive!

Dunkettle is incredibly expensive and complex, given the amount of bridges and the traffic management required.

Shedite27 · 16-02-2018 3:55pm

marno21 wrote: »

Dunkettle is incredibly expensive and complex, given the amount of bridges and the traffic management required.

marno21 · 16-02-2018 3:55pm

Breaking down NW Accessibility:

No PPP reannouncements here.

In terms of what's funded under 2016-2022:

N4 Collooney-Castlebaldwin (already fully funded) - to start 2018, approx cost €100m
N5 Westport-Turlough (already fully funded) - to start 2021, approx cost €130-140m
N52 Ardee bypass (already fully funded) - to start 2018, approx cost €20m
N56 Dungloe-Glenties & Mountcharles-Inver (already fully funded) - 2/8 parts complete, 1/8 under construction, 1/8 at tender and 4/8 at planning - expected remaining cost approx €60m.

Total remaining for 2016-2022 schemes: Approx €300m

N2 Slane bypass - should be shovel ready for 2022 barring objections, approx cost €50m
N5 Ballaghaderreen-Scramoge - decision due July 2018, could start in 2020, approx cost €140m

The Wildcard here is the A5, which is committed to but remains in an eternal state of limbo and could have border issues along with the lack of a Government in NI. I'll leave it out bar the €50m until 2019 which is already committed

Total cost of accessibility to the North West: approx €550m

LeinsterDub · 16-02-2018 3:58pm

marno21 wrote: »

Connecting the South Port to the M50/Port Tunnel.

I assume this means some sort of bridge/tunnel from the North side Port to the Pigeon House side of the Port?

marno21 · 16-02-2018 4:04pm

The interesting part here is that there is €5.7bn allocated to National Roads and €900m allocated seperately to the M20, meaning that taking the above will cost around €1.7bn to do alongside the A5.

Meaning there should be a balance of €4bn or so to progress other national road schemes. I'd expect a fair chunk of the below to also get done:

* N2 Clontibret-NI Border
* N2 Ashbourne-Kilmoon Cross
* N2 Ardee-Castleblayney
* N3 Clonee-M50
* N3 Virginia bypass
* M4 Maynooth-Leixlip
* N4 Mullingar-Longford
* N4 Carrick-on-Shannon to Dromod
* M11 M50 to Kilmacanogue
* N11/N25 Oilgate to Rosslare
* N13 Ballybofey/Stranorlar bypass
* N13/N56 Letterkenny relief road + DC upgarde
* N14 Letterkenny-Lifford
* N17 Knock-Collooney (encompassing Knock-Tobercurry/Tobercurry bypass/Tobercurry-Collooney)
* N21 Abbeyfeale releif road
* N21 Newcastlewest relief road
* N24 Cahir to Limerick Junction
* N24 Waterford to Cahir
* N25 Waterford to Glenmore
* M50 Eastern bypass Phase 1: South Port Access
* N52 Kilbeggan to Tullamore

marno21 · 16-02-2018 4:05pm

Something along those lines yes, we haven't been told much else other than that, but it is part of the NTA Dublin Transport Strategy 2016-2035.

AugustusMinimus · 16-02-2018 4:06pm

Are we still looking at 2+2 for the N24?

marno21 · 16-02-2018 4:09pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Are we still looking at 2+2 for the N24?

2+2 with possibly some Type 1 approaching Waterford.

Benildus · 16-02-2018 4:16pm

Anything on the N22 Killarney to Farranfore?

marno21 · 16-02-2018 4:17pm

Benildus wrote: »

Anything on the N22 Killarney to Farranfore?

Pre appraisal in 2018, if it merits it will be added to Capital Plan. No movement on construction likely before 2023.

2018-2027 National Development Plan

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