What have we come to

Balf · 09-02-2020 2:23pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

The population of morons and scumbags is growing in this country rapidly, thats why sinn fein got so many votes. singing about the black and tans in this day and age, idiots.

In another sense, that's the failure of our current political life. It didn't find a path that reduced the national level of imbecility.

It pandered to it and placated it. I'm thinking in particular, but not exclusively, of the regional development agenda. FF & FG were happy enough to support a view of the world, such that folk in Roscommon should feel jobs will materialise there if only the politicians willed it.

I'm not sure how this will all end. But its not the first time a community decided to vote itself into oblivion.

09-02-2020 2:24pm

billyhead wrote: »

Sinn Fein topping the polls in many constituencies. I believe in democracy but too vote this crowd in as your number 1

It's democracy- FG didn't heed the warnings for the last few years and they're suffering now. While I would absolutely HATE to see SF sharing power with FG or FF, if that's what it takes to have a government, then I'm behind it;
if it were some other party would i object so strongly? No, I wouldn't, so i have to respect democracy;

and maybe by the time the next election happens, all the other parties will take the election more seriously and put in place solid polices that will work.

A certain section of the electorate have woken up and they're pretty angry- Govt have to listen now.

Strumms · 09-02-2020 2:25pm

Littlehorny wrote: »

It's right to condemn SF when they have justified criminality to suit their cause and if they get into power they simply must follow the law of the land and condemn all criminal acts.
But to sling mud at SF for this and on the other hand not acknowledge that their should be dozens of white collar criminals serving time to this day in prison is hypocritical. The damage done to the country by pure corruption is immense and FF have been at the head of it for decades and the Irish public are really starting to remember this when a ballot paper is in front of them.

White collar criminals are not seeking election and public office and to be in government.

Sinn Fein, yes a political party with a mandate are unfortunately linked to and contain in their ranks still, individuals whom display little or no regard for the law, democracy and the people of this country... they are dominated in their thinking by obtaining a position in government to further THEIR own narrow objectives and their ‘supporters’....

09-02-2020 2:26pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

*** “The South” is that a large majority bar border ulster counties had no moving away from the troubles to do.

Oh. I'm from the Midlands. I rarely, if ever, think about counties up north. So when I think of the south or the republic, I think of those counties which have moved away from the IRA, and all that associated rubbish.

JuneMoon7 · 09-02-2020 2:27pm

Breakerz wrote: »

You're looking down on others for not voting for the status quo. The troubles are over. In a generation or two there won't be a FG or FF. Voting for the same parties over and over again and expecting change is incredibly stupid. People are starting to wake up.

Sp WHAT if the so- called troubles are over? does that mean people are meant to forget what the supporters and indeed former members of this party have done? 'calling a very lengthy, significant period of time where men, women and children were brutally murdered 'the troubles' seriously undermines the ferocity of their campaigns of terror and i will never forget that. Younger generations of people are educated about the death camps in World War II, \and told to never forget. Well i think this generation and future generations need and education on this.

Firefox11 · 09-02-2020 2:31pm

This like the Irish version of Brexit or Trump......except we turned left instead of right.

vriesmays · 09-02-2020 2:33pm

The first thing SF will do in power is accept most of Brexit's rejected asylum seekers; Ireland = finito.

Idbatterim · 09-02-2020 2:33pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I gave SF my 2nd preference, but in fairness wouldn't SF want even more luxury apartments given to people like Mags? I thought that was how they roll, and why they always got lots of votes from the rough areas of Dublin.

Possibly. But fg lost a lost a lot of votes. Trying to be all things to all people. This claim that sf will reward the perpetual tracksuit wearers. Fg have been doing that for the last nine years. Paying 1800 a month for a one bed luxury apartment in Dundrum , that the state will never own and we wonder why they can’t orivide far more housing or reward the tax payer etc ? This country has a serious spending problem !

Billcarson · 09-02-2020 2:34pm

JuneMoon7 wrote: »

Sp WHAT if the so- called troubles are over? does that mean people are meant to forget what the supporters and indeed former members of this party have done? 'calling a very lengthy, significant period of time where men, women and children were brutally murdered 'the troubles' seriously undermines the ferocity of their campaigns of terror and i will never forget that. Younger generations of people are educated about the death camps in World War II, \and told to never forget. Well i think this generation and future generations need and education on this.

What's more important to young people the past or the future??

Something like the troubles which happened in the past and has nothing to do with them or the fact that many young people cant get a house . Bit of a no brainer.

ChikiChiki · 09-02-2020 2:35pm

Might be the kick up the hole FF, FG and all their business cronies need to actually run the country properly with all the resources they have.

The are losing their grip on power.

smurgen · 09-02-2020 2:36pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

When they start taking up the side of the people beaten to death in barns rather then those doing the beating.

Since you're obsessed with victims

https://twitter.com/DingivanPaul/status/1224421130628403203?s=19

Cheerful Spring2 · 09-02-2020 2:37pm

Firefox11 wrote: »

This like the Irish version of Brexit or Trump......except we turned left instead of right.

FF are more in the middle compared to FG.

The left often sees FG as right-wing.

FF+ Sinn Fein government would be preferable.

Jinglejangle69 · 09-02-2020 2:39pm

smurgen wrote: »

Since you're obsessed with victims

https://twitter.com/DingivanPaul/status/1224421130628403203?s=19

Is that cervical check?

Weren't the false readings in 2010, who was even in power then?

letowski · 09-02-2020 2:45pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

The population of morons and scumbags is growing in this country rapidly, thats why sinn fein got so many votes. singing about the black and tans in this day and age, idiots.

You always hear these comments at every election by pro-establishment supporters.

Be it Hillary Clinton calling Trump supporters as 'deplorables' or Labour leaders calling conservatives rasicts, it only strenghtens populist supporters resolve. The media campaign against SF has come back to bite them, just like we have seen in other countries.

Word of advise, if democracy doesn't work out for you, don't call people scumbags. Most people just want to be able to pay for a house for their family.

Manach · 09-02-2020 2:45pm

I'd not have voted for SF and based on the pie in the sky promises based on other populist leftist parties elsewhere think that it would not be optimal them ruling on a basis of progressive doctrines (which I hope not to mansplain) and socialist policies. However on the positive side, they have governing and powersharing experience in the North and they must know if they lurch too far the electorate are unlikely to re-elect them.

antonboyle · 09-02-2020 2:46pm

billyhead wrote: »

Sinn Fein topping the poll.I believe in democracy but too vote this crowd in as your number 1

Obviously not your brand of democracy which is telling.

Lecturing others on how they should vote is counterproductive

Keyboard politicos don't represent the general population

Penn · 09-02-2020 2:46pm

As I said in another thread, that's what FF&FG have done to this country. Their policies and absolute failures have pushed people towards SF.

I was always generally a FG voter (maybe not first preference in the last few elections, but generally near the top). But the last few years where part of my work has occasionally required me to work with food banks, homeless shelters and emergency accommodation, and having myself and people close to me needing access to health and mental health services and the insane waiting times and lack of proper care...

F*ck Leo, who thinks being a memelord would get him re-elected.
F*ck the FFers who think everyone has forgotten a) their role in recession and b) they've been propping up FG for the last few years.
F*ck Fine Gael, who in general always just seem like they're just entitled to people's votes.
And f*ck them both for being so insistent that they'd never go into power with SF. If enough people voted for SF then the votes of those people should not be so easily dismissed.

sabat · 09-02-2020 2:47pm

You only need to look at the cross-border dynamic of SF to realise that some kind of shadow power structure is pulling the strings at a level above MLMcD and Michelle O'Neill. There is no way it could operate otherwise. Even the broad similarities between the two women and the opaque way they were (s)elected is indicative of a planned strategy.

BanditLuke · 09-02-2020 2:48pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

The population of morons and scumbags is growing in this country rapidly, thats why sinn fein got so many votes. singing about the black and tans in this day and age, idiots.

Comments like this about a sizeable percentage of our electorate don't help. They aren't scumbags.

I know a lady who lives near me who spent over 48hrs on a trolley in Saint Vincent's hospital a few months ago. She is nearing retirement and has raised a family and spent the last 15 years working and voting for either FG or FF. I spoke to her recently and she told me she swore to herself when she sat on the trolley her next vote was going to SF. That woman is neither a scumbag or a moron but just another citizen sick of the same old same getting us nowhere.

boetstark · 09-02-2020 2:51pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I have no great allegiance to SF, but can I ask you is there a time limit in your head when IRA atrocities are allowed to be forgotten about when a general election is on and SF are getting votes?

These 2 innocent kids who you pictured who died, should they be brought up in another 10 years, 20 years, 50 years?

Can SF ever run for election and not have these thrown up as a reason NOT to vote for them?

Some people couldn't forget about brave Irish men that served in the RIC and that was 100 years ago

joe40 · 09-02-2020 2:57pm

JuneMoon7 wrote: »

Sp WHAT if the so- called troubles are over? does that mean people are meant to forget what the supporters and indeed former members of this party have done? 'calling a very lengthy, significant period of time where men, women and children were brutally murdered 'the troubles' seriously undermines the ferocity of their campaigns of terror and i will never forget that. Younger generations of people are educated about the death camps in World War II, \and told to never forget. Well i think this generation and future generations need and education on this.

No one side had a monopoly on violence. Our country was born out of violence. The IRA in the war of Independence were brutal, as were atrocities in the civil war.
The republic then turned their back on northern nationalists and left them in a virtual apartheid state.
Read up about people been burned out of their homes in Belfast by mobs supported by the B specials.
The GFA is over 20 years old, the IRA are not active. People in Ireland are moving on. Sinn Fein are getting a vote on their politics. It may not work I'm personally not fully convinced, but constantly taking up the past is ludicrous.

Rikand · 09-02-2020 2:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The problem with SF is that they've never really given up their links to the IRA and other similar ideologies. The South moved away from the troubles, but SF will seek to involve us in that swamp of hatred all over again.

God I seriously hope the Irish people are not foolish enough to unify the Island, since a SF government will be pushing that line for the next four years (with the UK happy to see them go). Why is it that every time the Republic starts to do well, Irish people go find ways to screw themselves?

Don't blame the people, blame the parties.

It's like the UK and Brexit. The remain side never in their wildest dreams imagined leave would win, so their never seemed to be a great effort to hammer home the importance of remaining.

Fine Gael and Fine Fail believed they had government sown up forever and they didnt really give a ****. They definitely dont give a **** about you and me. They saw no need to try and pony up to what Sinn Fein were pedalling. It's only in the last week or two has FG/FF's complacency really come to fruit.

johnmcdnl · 09-02-2020 2:58pm

Things will never be perfect but I wonder if we showed the Ireland of 2020 to someone in 2010 would they have seen it as an improvement or as being worse when you look at everything and consider where we started the last decade and where it could have gone.
Maybe with the ship somewhat righted it is indeed time to give someone else a shot at fixing the last few issues and hope that in doing so doesnt lead to the ship falling right back over again.

pgj2015 · 09-02-2020 2:59pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

Would argue that it’s a growing population of informed and educated young people who are confident enough to make their own decisions. For too long irish people never challenged difficult topics. They listened to what “mammy and daddy” says and voted for.
They’ve now changed laws on abortion, same sex marriage, and now will topple the old dinosaurs of FF and FG over 60 voters once they die off.

A great weekend again for the new wave of Irish people. Someone sounds rattled there, is your comfortable life under threat?? Aww

sorry for working 7 days a week, buliding my own business (with help from the current government btw) not like these layabouts who want free houses, free money, medical care, travel etc and give nothing back, I dont believe everyone is entitled to a free house, you want one then get up off your arse and work for it.

I believe in capitalism not socialism, I want to see more prisons built, way longer prison sentences being handed out for serious crime such as burglary.

sinn fein appeal to the lowest of the low and students who havent a clue how the real world works.

my comfortable life isnt under threat though.

RonanG86 · 09-02-2020 3:00pm

I'm really loving the conservative Ireland reaction to this.

"Ugh, the electorate are too stupid and too young to remember that the Provos are criminals!"

Maybe, just maybe, the electorate is so sick of FF and FG policies and their ridiculous, sanctimonious sniping at each other (despite the fact the country would have been in exactly the same place had their periods in government since the 60s been reversed) that they're voting for Sinn Fein despite the Provisional IRA links? Given how much RTE and the newspapers go on about it, it's pretty much impossible to not know what Sinn Fein is and was, even if you never picked up a history book in your life.

Screeching "they're murderers!!!!" (whether a fair accusation or not), or alluding to an unelected cabal running it behind the scenes, isn't going to do diddly squat if you've run the country into the ground with decades of cronyism and gombeen men in power.

Pick up a mirror instead of trying to dismiss your opponents and the people who vote for them as stupid.

boetstark · 09-02-2020 3:05pm

Penn wrote: »

As I said in another thread, that's what FF&FG have done to this country. Their policies and absolute failures have pushed people towards SF.

I was always generally a FG voter (maybe not first preference in the last few elections, but generally near the top). But the last few years where part of my work has occasionally required me to work with food banks, homeless shelters and emergency accommodation, and having myself and people close to me needing access to health and mental health services and the insane waiting times and lack of proper care...

F*ck Leo, who thinks being a memelord would get him re-elected.
F*ck the FFers who think everyone has forgotten a) their role in recession and b) they've been propping up FG for the last few years.
F*ck Fine Gael, who in general always just seem like they're just entitled to people's votes.
And f*ck them both for being so insistent that they'd never go into power with SF. If enough people voted for SF then the votes of those people should not be so easily dismissed.

And f you for thinking people should believe SF bullsh*t.
Borrow more money, tax higher earners, tax the banks, tax tax tax tax
Sorry you get nothing in life for free. Somebody has to pay for this, free house, free healthcare.
In the very succ multinational I work for. A lot of the higher earners are considering their futures should SF get in to government
So sorry if I feel peeved with the prospect of SF in government

Oranage2 · 09-02-2020 3:06pm

johnmcdnl wrote: »

Things will never be perfect but I wonder if we showed the Ireland of 2020 to someone in 2010 would they have seen it as an improvement or as being worse when you look at everything and consider where we started the last decade and where it could have gone.
Maybe with the ship somewhat righted it is indeed time to give someone else a shot at fixing the last few issues and hope that in doing so doesnt lead to the ship falling right back over again.

I'm pretty sure it's the same right? We're out of recession but that seems to be down to a global upturn rather then anything special by our government. Little to no infrastructural improvement, no new policies, it's like nothing change in the past 20 years never mind 10.

Rufeo · 09-02-2020 3:06pm

Is Mary Lou going to be Taoiseach?

Seriously imagine that wagon in government. Yikes.

ChikiChiki · 09-02-2020 3:07pm

johnmcdnl wrote: »

Things will never be perfect but I wonder if we showed the Ireland of 2020 to someone in 2010 would they have seen it as an improvement or as being worse when you look at everything and consider where we started the last decade and where it could have gone.
Maybe with the ship somewhat righted it is indeed time to give someone else a shot at fixing the last few issues and hope that in doing so doesnt lead to the ship falling right back over again.

I think things are certainly more unequal between rich and the poor. I think there has also been a marked deterioration for those that are struggling to get buy.

I'm lucky that I am earn quite well which enables to me live comfortably but not selfish enough to overlook the struggle for many out there. It is incredibly difficult for a huge working cohort.

FG/FF were never getting a vote from me. FG based on their atrocious Governance since 2011 and FF for crashing the economy.

vriesmays · 09-02-2020 3:08pm

Imagine if she forgets her makeup.

BanditLuke · 09-02-2020 3:08pm

Rufeo wrote: »

Is Mary Lou going to be Taoiseach?

Seriously imagine that wagon in government. Yikes.

Come on, let's not resort to name calling.

Sonics2k · 09-02-2020 3:09pm

Rufeo wrote: »

Is Mary Lou going to be Taoiseach?

Seriously imagine that wagon in government. Yikes.

I'd happily take Mary Lou over Michael Martin.

I've known that man personally for many many years and he's an absolute rat of a man. He cares nothing about the people or country, only his pocket and his friends pockets. An absolute contrarian who'll only back things when there's a popular support for it.

Loves to walk around blaming FG and literally everyone else for the recession despite his and his parties direct cause of it.

Still waters · 09-02-2020 3:09pm

Democracy is ok as long as you get the verdict you want apparently, i didn't vote sinn fein because I'm old enough to remember the murders and beating and terror they supported for long enough but people voted and this is the result, you can't pick and choose what results you want, expect a government with sinn fein to crash and burn spectacularly due to them not having a clue how to run a successful economy without a massive cash injection from Westminster every year

Cupatae · 09-02-2020 3:10pm

billyhead wrote: »

Sinn Fein topping the polls in many constituencies. I believe in democracy but too vote this crowd in as your number 1

As opposed to what keep FF and FG and keep them taking turns lining there pockets? they have had power since the dawn of time and look at the state of the country,

JohnnyFlash · 09-02-2020 3:12pm

https://twitter.com/rtedubnorthwest/status/1226466136499408896?s=21

jjmcclure · 09-02-2020 3:13pm

Rufeo wrote: »

Is Mary Lou going to be Taoiseach?

Seriously imagine that wagon in government. Yikes.

Totally agree. Puppet for the masters.

While I am no fan of their past its not that that scares me. Its their policies.

Increase tax for those on over 100k - mythical cash cow, total nonsense
Build 100k house for 65k each

. Most extensions cost more than 65k

The nonsense about rail infrastructure - Sligo to Derry etc.

All populist nonsense. I actually hope they are made govern in some fashion. That will teach a lot of people a lot of lessons.

Penn · 09-02-2020 3:13pm

boetstark wrote: »

And f**k you for thinking people should believe SF bullsh*t.
Borrow more money, tax higher earners, tax the banks, tax tax tax tax
Sorry you get nothing in life for free. Somebody has to pay for this, free house, free healthcare.
In the very succ multinational I work for. A lot of the higher earners are considering their futures should SF get in to government
So sorry if I feel peeved with the prospect of SF in government

I don't think people should believe SF bullsh*t. Hell, I don't believe SF bullsh*t. Their policies are unrealistic, unworkable and most of it will be severely pared down or abandoned.

But SF won't have enough seats to be such the majority party that they'll be able to run rampant. Which means for them to be in power, either FG or FF will have to relent and have them as a minority party in their government, or we might get SF propped up with several of the other smaller parties as a large coalition. And after years of the FF/FG back and forth, I think we need to see something else, if for no other reason than to give FF and FG a kick up the bollox so they get their act together.

threeball · 09-02-2020 3:13pm

Have they turned over the paedophiles they were protecting yet?

splinter65 · 09-02-2020 3:13pm

rtron wrote: »

Let's just get it over with.
Vote them in.
Watch them feck up the country.
Then revote FF in 4 or 7 years whatever it is.

That’s my position

Strumms · 09-02-2020 3:13pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

FF are more in the middle compared to FG.

The left often sees FG as right-wing.

FF+ Sinn Fein government would be preferable.

FG are very right wing, this lot particularly so.

I don’t think we’ll see FF roll into bed with SF, too big a risk, SF have fûck all to loose, FF have everything to loose, it would just take one scandal involving SF, and FF will be finished with them...

threeball · 09-02-2020 3:14pm

Strumms wrote: »

FG are very right wing, this lot particularly so.

I don’t think we’ll see FF roll into bed with SF, too big a risk, SF have fûck all to loose, FF have everything to loose, it would just take one scandal involving SF, and FF will be finished with them...

Right wing my arse. They're as centre as they could get. They'd have done much better if they actually grasped the nettle and moved to the right.

tibruit · 09-02-2020 3:15pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I have no great allegiance to SF, but can I ask you is there a time limit in your head when IRA atrocities are allowed to be forgotten about when a general election is on and SF are getting votes?

These 2 innocent kids who you pictured who died, should they be brought up in another 10 years, 20 years, 50 years?

Can SF ever run for election and not have these thrown up as a reason NOT to vote for them?

There is a time limit but we haven`t reached it yet. Mary Lou was 26 when the IRA murdered those two children. She became a mouthpiece for murderers.

Balf · 09-02-2020 3:15pm

BanditLuke wrote: »

Comments like this about a sizeable percentage of our electorate don't help. They aren't scumbags.

I know a lady who lives near me who spent over 48hrs on a trolley in Saint Vincent's hospital a few months ago. She is nearing retirement and has raised a family and spent the last 15 years working and voting for either FG or FF. I spoke to her recently and she told me she swore to herself when she sat on the trolley her next vote was going to SF. That woman is neither a scumbag or a moron but just another citizen sick of the same old same getting us nowhere.

She might be a nice old dear. But what you've described is actually a stupid reason for voting SF.

But, indeed, it is a product of the political system not finding a positive path.

JohnnyFlash · 09-02-2020 3:15pm

Strumms wrote: »

FG are very right wing, this lot particularly so.

Ya, a party with a mixed race gay leader and who brought in abortion legislation, the biggest social housing programme in 40 years, and implemented the Slainte care health programme are rabidly right wing.

jjmcclure · 09-02-2020 3:16pm

Cupatae wrote: »

As opposed to what keep FF and FG and keep them taking turns lining there pockets? they have had power since the dawn of time and look at the state of the country,

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-countries-to-live-in/

Ireland is in great shape. Full employment etc.

Yes we have legacy issues regarding housing due to the crash and health due to the inability to address inefficiency on the public sector. Oh an every drunk, person with a head cold and child with a splinter showing up at A&E over the winter.

Cupatae · 09-02-2020 3:17pm

boetstark wrote: »

And f you for thinking people should believe SF bullsh*t.
Borrow more money, tax higher earners, tax the banks, tax tax tax tax
Sorry you get nothing in life for free. Somebody has to pay for this, free house, free healthcare.
In the very succ multinational I work for. A lot of the higher earners are considering their futures should SF get in to government
So sorry if I feel peeved with the prospect of SF in government

Could they be any worse than FF and FG who have held power since the dawn of time, personally im glad to see the D4 and upper classes being rooted out, the upper class will get it and rightfully so! and if they want to go the **** em! they only stay around cause they have it cushy and pay **** all so they ll be no loss.

Cupatae · 09-02-2020 3:18pm

jjmcclure wrote: »

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-countries-to-live-in/

Ireland is in great shape. Full employment etc.

Yes we have legacy issues regarding housing due to the crash and health due to the inability to address inefficiency on the public sector. Oh an every drunk, person with a head cold and child with a splinter showing up at A&E over the winter.

If its in such amazing shape why are FF and FG losing?

Still waters · 09-02-2020 3:19pm

Strumms wrote: »

FG are very right wing, this lot particularly so.

You'd want to be very left wing thinking to think fg are right wing, we have no left or right main parties in Ireland, we have centre parties who sway slighty one way or the other but are largely similar

vriesmays · 09-02-2020 3:19pm

The only good about SF is there might now be a direct provision in D4.

Strumms · 09-02-2020 3:21pm

threeball wrote: »

Right wing my arse. They're as centre as they could get. They'd have done much better if they actually grasped the nettle and moved to the right.

They are quite right of center, they even have multiple members attending YAF conferences, there is nothing center about them...