What have we come to

billyhead · 09-02-2020 12:54pm #1

Sinn Fein topping the polls in many constituencies. I believe in democracy but too vote this crowd in as your number 1

rtron · 09-02-2020 12:57pm

Let's just get it over with.
Vote them in.
Watch them feck up the country.
Then revote FF in 4 or 7 years whatever it is.

Ubbquittious · 09-02-2020 1:03pm

What's the alternative? Vote in the EU / corporatist lapdogs who despite being supposedly right wing want to tax you more and more for living in your own house that they had nothing to do with the building of in the form of property tax and broadcasting charges, mandatory private bin collection service. Who knows what other annual charges into the 100s of euros for simply existing FFG had planned to reveal to us once they obtained a fresh 5 year mandate to tear into

Wesser · 09-02-2020 1:05pm

The young people don't remember the troubles or any violence in the North. It's a new generation coming through.

chrissb8 · 09-02-2020 1:05pm

FF & FG have done this to themselves. Did they think people were going to take their s***e forever.

Earthhorse · 09-02-2020 1:06pm

It's a very naïve vote. Sinn Féin are basically FF lite. No real political convictions. What way is the wind blowing? Grand we'll go with that. If they do get into power it won't be the disaster some are expecting but it won't be the change others think they've voted for.

El Tarangu · 09-02-2020 1:08pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

What's the alternative? Vote in the EU / corporatist lapdogs who despite being supposedly right wing want to tax you more and more for living in your own house that they had nothing to do with the building of in the form of property tax and broadcasting charges, mandatory private bin collection service. Who knows what other annual charges into the 100s of euros for simply existing FFG had planned to reveal to us once they obtained a fresh 5 year mandate to tear into

There are plenty of other parties that espouse very similar leftish-populist policies to Sinn Féin, but who haven't been complicit in murdering Gardaí, members of the Defence Forces, members of the Oireachtas, children, census-takers, the Collie Club... I could go on.

Ubbquittious · 09-02-2020 1:08pm

Earthhorse wrote: »

It's a very naïve vote. Sinn Féin are basically FF lite. No real political convictions. What way is the wind blowing? Grand we'll go with that. If they do get into power it won't be the disaster some are expecting but it won't be the change others think they've voted for.

They're the only decent size party that havn't screwed us massively before. Give them a chance

Earthhorse · 09-02-2020 1:11pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

They're the only decent size party that havn't screwed us massively before. Give them a chance

To screw us over massively?

Careful what you wish for.

tototoe · 09-02-2020 1:11pm

Wesser wrote: »

The young people don't remember the troubles or any violence in the North. It's a new generation coming through.

They are the most popular party with under 65s. Thats not just "the young people"
Tells you a lot about how people feel about ff and fg though

Agricola · 09-02-2020 1:14pm

Its been coming a long time. When you have younger people who can't rent a place to live, never mind buy a house and who also have no real memory of pre GFA Sinn Fein, what other outcome would there be. FF have recovered as you'd expect after a decade in the wilderness and a lot of people are generally sick of FG.

We see ourselves as an educated responsible electorate that wouldn't be dupped like the Yanks and the Brits, but we had to get our own little taste of populism, couldnt escape it.

endacl · 09-02-2020 1:16pm

Wesser wrote: »

The young people don't remember the troubles or any violence in the North. It's a new generation coming through.

Short memories + shorter consciences

Donald Trump · 09-02-2020 1:16pm

Perhaps the ensuing chaos will eventually force people to educate themselves on things political.

There might be a generation lost, but eventually you would hope that people will learn.

And then inevitably forget and the cycle can continue again

Ubbquittious · 09-02-2020 1:18pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

Perhaps the ensuing chaos will eventually force people to educate themselves on things political.

There might be a generation lost, but eventually you would hope that people will learn.

And then inevitably forget and the cycle can continue again

Is that what you said when you got elected yourself?

Shaunoc · 09-02-2020 1:18pm

All hail our new overlords

Breakerz · 09-02-2020 1:21pm

You're looking down on others for not voting for the status quo. The troubles are over. In a generation or two there won't be a FG or FF. Voting for the same parties over and over again and expecting change is incredibly stupid. People are starting to wake up.

rob316 · 09-02-2020 1:21pm

Telling people to go vote and having only really the choice between 2 parties that spent the last 4 years in a glorified coalition isn't a democracy. The electorate aren't stupid and this generation don't have family loyalties to parties like old.
The FF and FG "confidence and supply" I thought at the time would change Irish politics and it has. They confirmed to the electorate "we are the same".

biko · 09-02-2020 1:23pm

It's pretty clear that to keep voting FF/FG isn't going to work - hence people are now thinking outside the box.
SF are socialists, but at least they appear to be the least deranged on the left side.
I also think they may be less interested in lining their own pockets and actually doing something for the citizens of this country.

NIMAN · 09-02-2020 1:25pm

endacl wrote: »

Short memories + shorter consciences

I have no great allegiance to SF, but can I ask you is there a time limit in your head when IRA atrocities are allowed to be forgotten about when a general election is on and SF are getting votes?

These 2 innocent kids who you pictured who died, should they be brought up in another 10 years, 20 years, 50 years?

Can SF ever run for election and not have these thrown up as a reason NOT to vote for them?

endacl · 09-02-2020 1:26pm

biko wrote: »

It's pretty clear that to keep voting FF/FG isn't going to work.
SF are socialists, but at least they appear to be the least deranged on the left side.

Be some craic when they meet a civil service who’ll have the job of pointing out the realities.

jam_mac_jam · 09-02-2020 1:28pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I have no great allegiance to SF, but can I ask you is there a time limit in your head when IRA atrocities are allowed to be forgotten about when a general election is on and SF are getting votes?

These 2 innocent kids who you pictured who died, should they be brought up in another 10 years, 20 years, 50 years?

Can SF ever run for election and not have these thrown up as a reason NOT to vote for them?

When they start taking up the side of the people beaten to death in barns rather then those doing the beating.

FixitFelix · 09-02-2020 1:30pm

Wesser wrote: »

The young people don't remember the troubles or any violence in the North. It's a new generation coming through.

No they're just living through the one of no houses, lying on hospital trolleys and extortionate rents.

endacl · 09-02-2020 1:33pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I have no great allegiance to SF, but can I ask you is there a time limit in your head when IRA atrocities are allowed to be forgotten about when a general election is on and SF are getting votes?

These 2 innocent kids who you pictured who died, should they be brought up in another 10 years, 20 years, 50 years?

Can SF ever run for election and not have these thrown up as a reason NOT to vote for them?

Honestly, for me? Not for a while yet. SF is still substantially populated by individuals who refused to condemn and indeed often sought to justify atrocity after atrocity. Good to see Martin Ferris not standing again and Adams gone, but there’s another generation to go before I could stomach them.

Montage of Feck · 09-02-2020 1:33pm

If Leo stood by his principles, instead of having to apologise for standing up for those who get out of bed in the morning, things could have been different.

coastwatch · 09-02-2020 1:36pm

“Democracy is too important to leave up to the votes of the people.”
— Henry Kissinger

Gynoid · 09-02-2020 1:37pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I have no great allegiance to SF, but can I ask you is there a time limit in your head when IRA atrocities are allowed to be forgotten about when a general election is on and SF are getting votes?

These 2 innocent kids who you pictured who died, should they be brought up in another 10 years, 20 years, 50 years?

Can SF ever run for election and not have these thrown up as a reason NOT to vote for them?

Don't know how long, but not long enough yet. In northerly parts republicans still have an illegitimate sway on the workings of communities, with threats thrown out on a grape vine that can send people into hiding, vigilante enforcement re drugs etc, subtle respect among certain people towards guerrila tactics. They have most definitely not gone away. I find it weird that a woman who panted after the founder of the Unknowns will be a senior politician in our country now. Gerry Adams as late as 2018 said violent tactics can be justified in certain cases. Sinn Fein protected rapists and punishment vigilantes long after the ending of the troubles. Still does, frankly.
But have at it. Be ruled by Sinn Fein. Elevate them on a podium. Better to rip the veils from the eyes sooner than later.

Idbatterim · 09-02-2020 1:42pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

If Leo stood by his principles, instead of having to apologise for standing up for those who get out of bed in the morning, things could have been different.

Yeah, bang on. But he is spineless! Worried that rte etc would brand him “ lacking in compass” rte lambasted sf, all it did was solidify their support. Varadkar has been ill advised by his spin doctors. Represent those who put you there and own it ! I didn’t vote fg last time for the Taoiseach to been groveling about “ de vulneable” on the worlds most generous welfare state , paid by the working poor , themselves hit with a fifty percent marginal rate !

Thelonious Monk · 09-02-2020 1:44pm

I think it's great that people are voting for something different, finally. As if they'd do anything very differently anyway if they were in power. This is some protest vote, big change coming in what looks to be a FF/FG coalition.

endacl · 09-02-2020 1:47pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I think it's great that people are voting for something different, finally. As if they'd do anything very differently anyway if they were in power. This is some protest vote, big change coming in what looks to be a FF/FG coalition.

If that pair would finally admit they’re the same thing and actually coalesce into a single entity, party politics could actually move on here. That’s the sea change that’s needed.

Cody montana · 09-02-2020 1:48pm

Welcome to democracy.

If you don’t agree with it, leave.

CBear1993 · 09-02-2020 1:49pm

Wesser wrote: »

The young people don't remember the troubles or any violence in the North. It's a new generation coming through.

And why should they? fF and FG started out as violent parties. Easy pointing the finger from down here where you’re nice and cosy.
Unrelated. Let them get on with it.

What have we come to

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