Cork city drinking water update

sunnyside · 21-11-2009 8:42pm

nesf wrote: »

I'm not going to go into details that aren't publicly available but the engineers etc have been working day and night to try and sort this out. They're working today and will be working tonight and tomorrow trying to get this sorted but they're facing a nightmarish task until the water levels drop.

You're talking about getting 8-10 ton pumps out of a flooded building and get them taken apart, cleaned and tested before trying to get them back in again. This all assumes you can keep water out of this building and specifically the sumps where the pumps are that are below ground level since the pumps won't work if they are underwater since the station hasn't seen any kind of flooding in well over 50 years (we're talking about a freak event that caused this whole mess).

What I find amusing about all of this is that some people are surprised that it's going to be such a big job to fix it. They seem to think there's a switch somewhere that the council can flick to turn the water back on.

I'm worried that it might take longer than expected to fix this.It is a huge job.

simu · 21-11-2009 8:45pm

sunnyside wrote: »

What I find amusing about all of this is that some people are surprised that it's going to be such a big job to fix it. They seem to think there's a switch somewhere that the council can flick to turn the water back on.

That's why Sim City should be mandatory playing for every child.

superhooper · 21-11-2009 8:50pm

nesf wrote: »

Don't ask me. I just know people working on the problem right now. I know no-one on the side which would be releasing information.

Most of the issues wouldn't make any sense to someone who didn't understand how a pumping station would normally work tbh.

Most people know what the problem is. It flooded. What we want to ensure is that our local authority issue clear and timely information e.g when ringing the City Council you shouldn't get a message saying its offices's are closed. A simple message would help. This kind of crap is what gives our public servants a bad rap despite the fact that there are council workers all over the city trying to rectify the situation.

I do note that the Director of Emergency Services updated the website this PM so there is hope.

nesf · 21-11-2009 8:52pm

sunnyside wrote: »

What I find amusing about all of this is that some people are surprised that it's going to be such a big job to fix it. They seem to think there's a switch somewhere that the council can flick to turn the water back on.

I'm worried that it might take longer than expected to fix this.It is a huge job.

It's a huge job. Without the Lee Waterworks running there's no water going into many of the reservoirs. That means we're going to run out of water.

Any pump that was flooded needs be completely taken apart, each piece washed, cleaned and dried and then the unit needs to be reassembled and tested. Otherwise the pump could short circuit and blow when power is turned back on and that would mean far longer delays. There's no easy way around this, all the pumps need to be taken out of there, brought to a workshop where skilled people can do their job and then brought back and put in again before water can be got flowing. This all assumes that the station doesn't flood again in the meantime.

nesf · 21-11-2009 8:57pm

superhooper wrote: »

Most people know what the problem is. It flooded.

Sure but most people don't know what's been flooded, what needs to be done to fix it or what amount of work is involved and why it can't be done "quickly". Most people probably only have a limited understanding of how the whole water system works through no fault of their own since it's not exactly useful information for anyone except people who work in this area.

shoegirl · 21-11-2009 8:58pm

sunnyside wrote: »

What I find amusing about all of this is that some people are surprised that it's going to be such a big job to fix it.

I don't think people are surprised, many towns are waiting decades for upgrades to stabilize water quality so its well realised that for whatever reasons, any sort of work on water supplies appears to be at the extreme end of slow.

And there are two separate problems anyway - the pumping stations cannot be fixed as long as they are flooded. If you just had one problem or the other it would be less serious.

The real danger is for how long the situation continues and the level of damage to homes and businesses that is already done. I believe a lot of apartment buildings around the Victoria Cross/UCC area are severely damaged. A lot of the residential stock in the city is high occupancy and poor quality so there may be a lot of work to do at that level. Businesses with strong water needs like barbers and hairdressers may suffer badly, as well as shopholders with stock damage.

D2D · 21-11-2009 8:58pm

I've heard that the water will be switched off in the Collage Rd area tonight. Can anyone please confirm this as I know someone in the Horgan's Building's area.

nacl · 21-11-2009 8:58pm

nesf wrote: »

It's a huge job. Without the Lee Waterworks running there's no water going into many of the reservoirs. That means we're going to run out of water.

Any pump that was flooded needs be completely taken apart, each piece washed, cleaned and dried and then the unit needs to be reassembled and tested. Otherwise the pump could short circuit and blow when power is turned back on and that would mean far longer delays. There's no easy way around this, all the pumps need to be taken out of there, brought to a workshop where skilled people can do their job and then brought back and put in again before water can be got flowing. This all assumes that the station doesn't flood again in the meantime.

Is that quicker than putting in replacement pumps?

Or are they custom made or too awkward to buy off the shelf?

sunnyside · 21-11-2009 8:58pm

nesf wrote: »

Any pump that was flooded needs be completely taken apart, each piece washed, cleaned and dried and then the unit needs to be reassembled and tested. Otherwise the pump could short circuit and blow when power is turned back on and that would mean far longer delays. There's no easy way around this, all the pumps need to be taken out of there, brought to a workshop where skilled people can do their job and then brought back and put in again before water can be got flowing. This all assumes that the station doesn't flood again in the meantime.

I'm assuming that this is done now and again for servicing and repairs but one pump at a time...now they all need to be done together....a week seems like a very conservative estimate:eek:

superhooper · 21-11-2009 8:59pm

nesf wrote: »

Exactly. The dam had something like six times the normal level of water behind it, they had no choice but to start releasing it downstream. Thing is, the dam stops the lower lying areas of Cork from flooding the vast majority of the time, it's just people don't realise it.

To be fair NESF I think you are underestimating peoples understanding of the situation. Most people know the water has to be released at some stage. The problem seems to be how the information on the extra release was relayed to the public and how it was interpreted. I heard about it on the radio and just assumed it would cause additional problems but I believe the media(as per Pascal Sheehy) were told that the release would have no effect on the levels lower down in the valley which seems bizarre.

Nonoperational · 21-11-2009 9:02pm

Im in Shanakiel/Holyhill area and still have water. Ye reckon it will go at some stage?

sunnyside · 21-11-2009 9:02pm

nacl wrote: »

Is that quicker than putting in replacement pumps?

Or are they custom made or too awkward to buy off the shelf?

Probably not the sort of thing you can purchase at B+Q or Woodies.

If water is in such short supply shouldn't pubs, clubs be forced to close to conserve water. I know the business owners would go mad but.....

nacl · 21-11-2009 9:04pm

sunnyside wrote: »

Probably not the sort of thing you can purchase at B+Q or Woodies.

If water is in such short supply shouldn't pubs, clubs be forced to close to conserve water. I know the business owners would go mad but.....

I'm saying off the shelf in an industrial sense

sunnyside · 21-11-2009 9:06pm

gpf101 wrote: »

Im in Shanakiel/Holyhill area and still have water. Ye reckon it will go at some stage?

I still have water too but I'd say the water will go everywhere at some stage in the next few days. I don't think anybody can say for certain, the situation is constantly changing.

nesf · 21-11-2009 9:08pm

nacl wrote: »

Is that quicker than putting in replacement pumps?

These units cost about half a million euro new and delivery time is around six months since they're made from scratch per order and aren't "off the shelf" items.

So yeah, a fair bit faster.

nesf · 21-11-2009 9:11pm

superhooper wrote: »

To be fair NESF I think you are underestimating peoples understanding of the situation. Most people know the water has to be released at some stage. The problem seems to be how the information on the extra release was relayed to the public and how it was interpreted. I heard about it on the radio and just assumed it would cause additional problems but I believe the media(as per Pascal Sheehy) were told that the release would have no effect on the levels lower down in the valley which seems bizarre.

I heard that they were going to be releasing water, but I didn't hear much more than that at the time on the media. It's not that people don't understand why water would have to be released from a dam, more that it's easy for us to forget about the threat of flooding when there hasn't been anything serious for a decade or more. I know personally it really wasn't something that I'd have ranked as an imminent threat to the city if you'd have asked me six months ago.

sunnyside · 21-11-2009 9:12pm

There's probably a limited supply of people with the skills and expertise to work on this too.

nesf · 21-11-2009 9:23pm

nacl wrote: »

I'm saying off the shelf in an industrial sense

Yeah the big problem with pumps of this size is that there's a small enough amount of them produced per month and the next 3-4 months of production has already been bought by someone so you'd be at the end of a long queue to get one. They're really not comparable to smaller pumps which are "off the shelf" in an industrial sense and you could probably get your hands on some of them within a few weeks if you needed it.

But individual pumps worth upwards of 500,000 euro only get made when a buyer is already there generally speaking and orders are usually made 6-12 months in advance if not more.

sunnyside · 21-11-2009 9:30pm

It wouldn't exactly be an impulse purchase so I can understand how it would take ages to get one and even if we could I don't think Biffo can afford such things.

How are people hearing where and when the water is due to be turned off?

northgirl · 21-11-2009 9:50pm

gpf101 wrote: »

Im in Shanakiel/Holyhill area and still have water. Ye reckon it will go at some stage?

the water is gone in shanakiel road but seems to be still flowing at the end of the lee road which is all a bit confusing.. a week with no water feels like a long time right now...

dpaulod · 21-11-2009 9:51pm

No Water On Summer Hill North Will windows 7 still work or should I
go back to Vista

Sephiroth_dude · 21-11-2009 10:15pm

According to my cousin its been turned off in 20mins out here ballincollig.

Nonoperational · 21-11-2009 11:04pm

Its weird we still have it at the top of Shanakiel hill and shanakiel itself is gone.

Edit: spoke too soon I think, getting very weak now.

JohnK · 21-11-2009 11:37pm

Just heard there that Douglas/Rochestown is expected to lose water within the hour

Stargate · 21-11-2009 11:39pm

sunnyside wrote: »

How are people hearing where and when the water is due to be turned off?

me too???

JohnK · 21-11-2009 11:45pm

My sister heard it off her neighbour who said she "heard it off the horses mouth". Presume people are ringing any numbers they can get their hands on etc.

Solair · 21-11-2009 11:47pm

I had a bit of a google around some old Cork Corporation / Cork City Council reports on the internet and it seems there are several supply systems:

The largest is the Lee Road Waterworks, which is the one that is out of action. This serves the city centre, northern city, most of the western suburbs and older parts of Douglas, Blackrock etc.

The intake for this system is at the Lee Road Waterworks which is basically just opposite County Hall.

The other source of water in Cork City/Suburbs is from the Cork Harbour & City Water Supply Scheme. This takes water from upstream of the dam, and is not affected.

That system serves the newer suburban areas to the South of the City mostly.

Some parts of the east of the city may also be served from Glashboy, which is in Glanmire.

There is also some interconnection between all of these systems, which might explain how they can get a limited supply back online in the central island area.

Stargate · 21-11-2009 11:51pm

Solair wrote: »

I had a bit of a google around some old Cork Corporation / Cork City Council reports on the internet and it seems there are several supply systems:

The largest is the Lee Road Waterworks, which is the one that is out of action. This serves the city centre, northern city, most of the western suburbs and older parts of Douglas, Blackrock etc.

The intake for this system is at the Lee Road Waterworks which is basically just opposite County Hall.

The other source of water in Cork City/Suburbs is from the Cork Harbour & City Water Supply Scheme. This takes water from upstream of the dam, and is not affected.

That system serves the newer suburban areas to the South of the City mostly.

Some parts of the east of the city may also be served from Glashboy, which is in Glanmire.

There is also some interconnection between all of these systems, which might explain how they can get a limited supply back online in the central island area.

Tnx Solair , when i hear people say in the central island area it makes it sound like NY

sok2005 · 22-11-2009 12:47am

Hi All,

We still have water here in Ballincollig. Just giving my 2 cents. Heard all water will be turned off at midnight or at the latest tomorrow morning.

LauraMcGonigle · 22-11-2009 1:08am

Hi All,

I am a city councillor and deputy Lord Mayor of Cork.

Just to allay fears:

Firstly, the supply of water to Cork County is perfectly stable. Water is from two sources, Farmers Cross, which hasn't been effected and Inniscarra, which is ABOVE the dam. So there will be absolutely no disruption to the supply in Rochestown, Carrigaline, Ballincollig, the county side of Douglas or any other area in the Cork County Council local authority area.

With regard to City Council supply - THE SUPPLY IS NOT BEING TURNED OFF AT ANY STAGE IN THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE.

If you currently have water, you will more than likely retain your supply.

Just to reitterate, the Council will not be turning off the water tonight.

buckrodgers · 22-11-2009 1:09am

I am in Blackrock/Mahon, one of my neighbours just told me our water is going off at midnight, does anyone know if this is true or where I can find out?

titan18 · 22-11-2009 1:11am

LauraMcGonigle wrote: »

Hi All,

I am a city councillor and deputy Lord Mayor of Cork.

Just to allay fears:

Firstly, the supply of water to Cork County is perfectly stable. Water is from two sources, Farmers Cross, which hasn't been effected and Inniscarra, which is ABOVE the dam. So there will be absolutely no disruption to the supply in Rochestown, Carrigaline, Ballincollig, the county side of Douglas or any other area in the Cork County Council local authority area.

With regard to City Council supply - THE SUPPLY IS NOT BEING TURNED OFF AT ANY STAGE IN THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE.

If you currently have water, you will more than likely retain your supply.

Just to reitterate, the Council will not be turning off the water tonight.

Any idea when the rest of the city's supply will be coming back by any chance?

sunnyside · 22-11-2009 1:13am

buckrodgers wrote: »

I am in Blackrock/Mahon, one of my neighbours just told me our water is going off at midnight, does anyone know if this is true or where I can find out?

To be honest I'd say it's unlikely that anybody can get any information from the council or ESB at this hour of the night. I expect they are working on it but not from a desk so don't expect twitter updates. If the power is going out for a few hours during the night most people won't even notice because they'll be in bed.

Solair · 22-11-2009 1:14am

I think if you have water, you're likely to keep it!

See quote from Cllr Laura McGonnigle, Cork's deputy mayor - above.

LauraMcGonigle · 22-11-2009 1:15am

As of yet engineers have still not been able to gain access to all the damaged valves at the Lee Water Works, owing to the large amount of flood water still at the site, and as a result we have no realistic idea of when the City’s water supply will be restored.

Best case scenario is the end of next week.

See my website for more info www.lauramcgonigle.ie

or twitter www.twitter.com/lauramcgonigle

josieo · 22-11-2009 1:15am

living on summerhill north water gone since early this morning 3 kids its a joke city flooding yet we cant wash or use toilet and nobody seems to know whats going on

LauraMcGonigle · 22-11-2009 1:18am

You can't wash or use the toilet, because the Council shut down the pumping station that was flooded to stop contaminated water entering the supply - which would have been a huge health and safety risk for the City.

Those who have water are being supplied from the second pumping station, or tivoli or maybe on the County supply

Big Tone · 22-11-2009 1:26am

josieo wrote: »

living on summerhill north water gone since early this morning 3 kids its a joke city flooding yet we cant wash or use toilet and nobody seems to know whats going on

Please read the advice from city council website carefully, you have options.

Here are the extracts applicable to your situation which you might find helpful.

"Toilet flushing

If there is no water for flushing toilets, it is important that all water used for washing, bathing, and from cooking (i.e. water from boiled vegetables) or washing up is saved in buckets to be used for flushing. It is not necessary to flush the toilet after urination. Other sources of recycled water can also be used for flushing e.g. rain water

Bathing infants

If tap water is not available for bathing infants, boiled and cooled tanker water or bottled water are safe alternatives. A safe alternative to bathing is to use baby wipes for hand cleansing and washing infants."

Leeside · 22-11-2009 1:27am

Many thanks to Laura McGonigle for coming on here and clarifying the position. I have water at present I will now sleep a little easier tonight. My heart goes out to people who look like facing all next week without any water.

Will schools who don't have water close next week? If toilets can't be flushed, I'd imagine a health hazard could be created very quickly

LauraMcGonigle · 22-11-2009 1:31am

Leeside wrote: »

Many thanks to Laura McGonigle for coming on here and clarifying the position. I have water at present I will now sleep a little easier tonight. My heart goes out to people who look like facing all next week without any water.

Will schools who don't have water close next week? If toilets can't be flushed, I'd imagine a health hazard could be created very quickly

Yip, schools without water have been advised by HSE and City Council to close!

buckrodgers · 22-11-2009 1:31am

Leeside wrote: »

Many thanks to Laura McGonigle for coming on here and clarifying the position. I have water at present I will now sleep a little easier tonight. My heart goes out to people who look like facing all next week without any water.

Will schools who don't have water close next week? If toilets can't be flushed, I'd imagine a health hazard could be created very quickly

I agree, thank you Laura. I had been running around filliing everything I could find with water! My thoughts are also with everyone who doesnt have water. Is there anything those with water can do to help?

Schools affected will be closed, my kids are in one of them, the school texted me to say they wouldnt be open on Monday.

LauraMcGonigle · 22-11-2009 1:34am

buckrodgers wrote: »

I agree, thank you Laura. I had been running around filliing everything I could find with water! My thoughts are also with everyone who doesnt have water. Is there anything those with water can do to help?

Schools affected will be closed, my kids are in one of them, the school texted me to say they wouldnt be open on Monday.

I think the City is really depending on a community spirit. Check on those who may not have acces to the water depots, especially the elderly.

Consider collecting rain water for friends and family to use in cistern!

Offer someone the use of your shower?!?!

Nonoperational · 22-11-2009 1:36am

Water gone to a trickle here in shanakiel/hollyhill now. was ok until an hour or so ago.

Stargate · 22-11-2009 1:37am

LauraMcGonigle wrote: »

I think the City is really depending on a community spirit. Check on those who may not have acces to the water depots, especially the elderly.

Consider collecting rain water for friends and family to use in cistern!

Offer someone the use of your shower?!?!

You can use mine anytime Laura

Nice to see you here

sunnyside · 22-11-2009 1:38am

josieo wrote: »

living on summerhill north water gone since early this morning 3 kids its a joke city flooding yet we cant wash or use toilet and nobody seems to know whats going on

I posted on one of the other threads earlier that people are criticising the council unfairly. Nobody was expecting this and they are doing a good job of providing general assistance with the water tanks. They don't have the resources to provide individual help. We need to work with them and help one another out with the minor things while they work on the bigger job of restoring water supply.

Anybody who needs individual assistance with anything just has to contact the local garda station and they will provide help.

Thanks to LauraMcGonigle for coming on here with an official update. No other public representative has used message boards and twitter to pass on information. That update will calm a lot of stressed people tonight. I'm sure now that Laura has found us she will post more updates in the coming days.

Solair · 22-11-2009 1:48am

I think it's great to see a Deputy Lord Mayor engaging with the discussion forums and twitter.

Thanks for the updates and the useful info!

Big Tone · 22-11-2009 1:50am

Well done Laura for keeping people informed.

No doubt questions, about the ESB decision to unleash so much water from the Inniscarra dam, will be seriously looked at in the coming days.

Insurance companies are launching investigations into the devastation caused by the ESB move but for now its of paramount importance that people read Laura's posts, her website and the City Council website on how to turn around a dire situation and use some innovative alternative methods as suggested earlier.

Solair · 22-11-2009 1:50am

Big Tone wrote: »

Please read the advice from city council website carefully, you have options.

Here are the extracts applicable to your situation which you might find helpful.

"Toilet flushing

If there is no water for flushing toilets, it is important that all water used for washing, bathing, and from cooking (i.e. water from boiled vegetables) or washing up is saved in buckets to be used for flushing....."

Tip: DO NOT pour hot water into your toilet, it can crack the bowl / cistern!!
Also, don't put anything that can clog the cistern valves into the tank e.g. strained carrots

LauraMcGonigle · 22-11-2009 2:11am

Stargate wrote: »

You can use mine anytime Laura

Nice to see you here

Ha Ha!! Thanks for the offer!! Be prepared though - things gonna get smelly as the week goes on!!

LauraMcGonigle · 22-11-2009 2:13am

sunnyside wrote: »

Thanks to LauraMcGonigle for coming on here with an official update. No other public representative has used message boards and twitter to pass on information. That update will calm a lot of stressed people tonight. I'm sure now that Laura has found us she will post more updates in the coming days.

Yip will keep ye as updated as I am! But best place to get updates in on my website at www.lauramcgonigle.ie where you can sign up to receive daily updates!

Cork city drinking water update

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